Please address lobby dodging / shopping
Killer ques are 8 mins in my area yet I've still had multiple people just dodge my survivor lobby.
I see MMR complained about all the time, meanwhile a killer dodging a lobby which makes that lobby have ruined MMR is ok?
Killers going next in the lobby is the same to me as a surviour going next when they realise its a killer they dont like. both are just leaving as soon as they see things that dont go their way.
Remove the killer being able to see survivors in the lobby, It is time and is a outdated feature in a pvp game.
Comments
Like you said, it's an outdated feature altogether. All it does it encourage lobby dodging from both sides, not just killers do this by the way, that's a narrow minded way to look at it. Both killer players and survivor players are guilty of lobby dodging, which in turn makes both wait times to get into a match and matchmaking as a whole worse. But ultimately, the only ones we can truly blame is BHVR for keeping such a terrible feature in the game for so long even after adding an MMR system.
Players on both sides check profiles before the match to try and "self police" the lobby by dodging weak players on their team, or killers dodging strong players on the enemy team, which ironically just makes the matchmaking way worse for everyone as backfill tries to fill in players in an even larger range than before.
Removing pregame lobbies completely and simply matching 5 players together, having them press "Accept match" to verify that they're not AFK, and then going straight to loading screen and into the match would be infinitely better than what we have now. Offering screen could be skipped too in my opinion, since it's just boring BP offerings and 90% of the useful gameplay offerings are hidden anyway so what's the point in showing them and wasting time on that instead of just getting on with the match?
I don't think they'll change this but it baffles me that one of the players biggest complaints is matchmaking, but BHVR simply aren't willing to bite the bullet and do something dramatic, but effective like removing lobbies and letting people wait for slightly longer in queue to actually put together a good match.
I do think killers do it more as they have information on their opponents, meanwhile survivors have it on their team mates and cant just leave lobby based on opponents but do agree both sides can affect the MMR balance of lobby.
I would really like the pre lobby to be replaces with a screen like dbd mobile had where you could see your other team mates perks and ad ons loading in, Killers would see what survivors are being played and items on this screen. but it would also give a matchmaking penalty for leaving the game at that screen as I would consider it a part of a match just the information / prep part of match.
To be fair, I'm not getting flashlight bullied by 2-4 flashlight survivors, I'd rather just leave the lobby, wouldn't you rather me just leave the lobby than the actual game itself? At least I can prep with lightborn but even then I watch survivors with 4 flashlights finish gens so fast it makes me wonder why I even play the game. Either it's cheaters or the game is broken and I'm heavily leaning towards cheaters because when I get into a game with non cheaters it's actually enjoyable and gens do immediately pop nor do I get flashlight stunned by off camera survivors even if I'm directly facing a wall, sorry not sorry, if I see a pc flashlight user even if it's 1 I dip out the lobby, sorry not sorry, cheaters ruined it for you.
see I don't like that mentality, Going next people complain about all the time in regards to survivors but this is the killer equivalent of going next no? (Hackers aside as that's a sperate issue that devs should address with better anti cheat checks)
If survivors could see the killer in the lobby, they would most likely dodge the lobby if they don't like the killer rather then load in and dc and eat a penalty. would we rather survivors leave in the lobby rather then going next when they see its a killer they don't like?
Both sides need to be prepared to play the game or be prepared to get matchmaking penalties, I think that should also apply to killers who lobby shop because of items they see.
The reason it's more fair for killers to do leave is because they'll be replaced quite quickly whereas if you get a killer that leaves the game after witnessing 4 survivors with flashlights the game ends, recently I played as the Onryo and had one person leave immediately then the entire team up and quit, I would much rather have them leave in lobby than in game, so if survivors could see me they would actually create playstyles around my killer ability, that's the difference.
I can't effectively create a playstyle around 4 survivors abilities except run the meta perks and possibly throw on a flashlight perk. The reason I leave is solely because of cheaters and the other factor is I don't want to waste what little perk slots I have on an anti-flashlight perk (lightborn) so yeah I just up and leave, you get a killer back immediately anyways no wait time, the only time I actually leave in game as a killer is when I'm convinced there is more than one cheater aka running faster than me no matter what even with 3 tiers of bloodlust.
so yeah I just up and leave, you get a killer back immediately anyways no wait timeThe main issue isn't how fast the spot is filled, It that MMR does not work once the first killer leaves every other killer that is filled into that lobby is done so with no regard to MMR. The killer leaving has just ruined the matchmaking for the lobby which I think is worse then killer dcing mid match and taking the penalty. all the survivors may as well leave the lobby to have a better chance of a balanced match.
So when I hear ton of complains about the MMR I don't think its even working most of the time due to lobby dodging.
Dodging because of flashlights is the equivalent of survivors dcing because they hear a ghoul terror radius. its ruining the MMR of lobbies because someone does not want to deal with x part of the game the only difference is survivors get punished for trying to do that, meanwhile killers can do it in the lobby for items.
that player could be trash with a flashlight but you are dodging purely based on the item. it kind of shows this system needs to change because I don't think players should be able to dodge based on items they don't want to deal with.
Yeah, Killers do it more, this is true. I would guess that most Survivors only dodge when a profile looks suspicious or if they already know this person. But Killers nowadays dodge if they suspect a SWF or if someone has more than 10 hours in the game. What is baffling to me is that Killers even dodge if they have queuetimes of 5 minutes+… So instead of just trying to play the game against people who are most likely their skill level, they dodge and spend another 5 minutes in the queue to hopefully get an easier lobby.
(I even know a Killer Main with 18k hours who does this… Like with that amount of hours, you should not be scared of anything, lol)
Yeah, this would be great. IMO it would also be fine to do so. Since the only real reason why the Killer should see Survivors is to prepare, but 99% of Killers dont change their loadout when they see the Survivors, they just dodge. And the only thing you really need to prepare for are Flashlights, but I think someone who really does not want to get blinded, should just bring Lightborn to every game. I personally think it is a wasted Perk Slot, but there are big reasons to just equip it when you dont want to get blinded like Last Second Switches (even tho, I dont see those anymore) or simply the existence of Perks which grant Flashlights or just Flashbang.
I agree. Wait times are not usually too long here, but I go through maybe 3-4 killers before one decides they'll take us on. I wouldn't even mind if I played SWF, but I'm usually in solo or a duo. They dodge at the slightest inconvenience. Toolbox, flashlight, etc.
Maybe what's needed is a reduced lobby, where once their MMR system does its thing it becomes locked but the killer can see surv items and that's it. Probably should be made so no one can see profiles either, which most of the global playerbase already cannot do. The only argument that sorta has merit is seeking to avoid known hackers/cheaters, but again most of the players cannot see that now.
Worth testing out imo, see how it affects match quality over time.
I’m going to take what is likely the unpopular side here. Being able to leave lobbies is necessary as long as BHVR continues to do nothing about the broken MMR/matchmaking system. It’s still way too common for people to get matched against people either way above or way below their skill level. The ability to choose a different lobby at least gives players some level of control over matchmaking.
If BHVR decides that they finally want to fix this broken system, and I actually see some improvement in consistently reasonable matching of skill level, I’ll happily get on board with those who are opposed to lobby dodging.
In my experience survivors dodge way more than killers. I have been in lobbies for 10min while survivors dodge eachother because they don't like globes or there is a sable in the lobby or some other weird reason.
It will never change because apparently bhvr want to make the game less competitive and more party game which is why they are reworking the matchmaking later in the year.... Is it ok to punish someone from leaving a lobby in a party game that's not supposed to be taken seriously? Maybe... maybe not. I mean people are punished for DCing which isn't very party game friendly so who knows....
Perhaps the MMR / matchmaking is so bad because you are constantly getting back filled into lobbies other killers have dodged because what you are describing "they are too weak or too strong" sounds like backfilled lobbies.
It has everything to do with the MMR system. Because once ONE killer dodges the lobby, MMR / matchmaking is ruined for that lobby.
But by that same logic the surviours should be able to see the killer and stuff so they can "give themselves control over matchmaking"? Giving one side that ability is unhealty for the game because lets me honest, majoirty of killer are gonna dodge when oppenents look to hard, not when they look too weak.
Yeah party game argument has kind of gone out the window, I know the devs have made that statement in past buts its delusional to try to balance like that.
A good example of game that leaned to hard into causal was The game Texas chainsaw masiccure. They also said they where gonna be more causal. Lobby dodging galore, if you played certain killer/ survivor combos you basically where never gonna get a match "oh there is a high level connie there is no point in playing this match" one of first patches they nerfed door stuns and people had a meltdown "but you said its a casual game why are you nerfing it". People complained that they had to play bubba, then complained when they allowed lobbies not to have a bubba because the game was not balanced for no bubba.
The best chance dbd has at a casual / party mode is the 2v8 honestly.
I really hope this thread gets listened to, lots of great points here.
I just hope its something they have been thinking about with the upcoming MMR rework.
Because a MMR rework will do nothing if majority of lobbies are being backfilled with no regards to MMR. If they are gonna fix MMR they need to address the main cause of it not working which is lobby dodging.
Post your survivor lobby.
No - it’s not because of backfilling. I can tell when I get put in a backfill lobby and it doesn’t happen often. The terrible matchmaking occurs on a regular basis even when it’s not a lobby backfill situation.
Just out of curiosity, how can you tell when you're put into a backfilled lobby? It'd be good to be able to see the signs for my games
The most obvious sign is if you load into a lobby and there are already other players readied up. Also if you load into a lobby and there is no killer yet.
Where did you see anything about this? Why wouldn't MMR be taken into account? Surely the system knows what the lobby MMR is still and can add a killer of the correct level.
The exact specifics are not known as far as I know. But at some point, the Lobby starts to value fast matchmaking over fair matchmaking. This happens especially when a Killer dodges. I am not sure if there is no regard for the MMR anymore, but at the very least the range is extremely increased.
So whenever you end up in a Lobby where you have the feeling you are clearly at the wrong place, it is most of the time because a player who was more suitable dodged it and you got backfilled.
ill be honest here, i do dodge lobby as a killer but it is very rare.
sometimes its when i see like a bunch of russian names cause those are often toxic or when it is very obviously an swf or ace with pants and that stupid hat ^^. but thats like once a month so i could live without dodging these.
but there is one kind of lobby i always dodge no matter what and thats ttvs. if i see a ttv i always check if they came with their crew, not because i fear their strenth but because every single game on my top 20 worst games of all time list was against a ttv and their crew. and they are always so full of themselves and get hyper toxic when you do anything they deem unfair and since hey get bbacked by their viewers and crew they jus go all out
I only lobby dodge on very rare occasion (only when the number of TTVs is > 2, because that's invariably gonna be a total nonsense match), but as someone who plays both sides pretty equally, I can say in my experience it is absolutely a both sides issue.
I'll often see survs popping in and out of lobby like it's a whack-a-mole game. It's very common, and the games are often just terrible as a result. I think there is a distinct correlation between the stability of the lobby pregame and the quality of the match.
I based It on a statement made a few years ago in regards to lobby dodging by Mandy.
I wish there was something done about this. I fully understand why people dodge, because they see the set up and have plenty of experience to predict it's not going to be a fun game, but by dodging all they are doing is handing a potentially bad game to someone likely even less suited to cope with it.
I'd rather eat a difficult game than break the matchmaking entirely.
Plus, if I don't play against playstyles I don't like, I won't learn how to deal with them and never be able to handle them no matter how many hours I accrue.