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The Shape Rework inquiry

TheSingleQuentinMain TheSingleQuentinMain
in General Discussions

Behavior said that the Shape is getting some reworks done, and right now we don't exactly know what that means, but I wanted to figure out what people hope it means. I want to make a video essay on what I would like done to him, but first I wanted to gauge how some people think he should be reworked by making a small questionnaire. I know the Forums has a poll system but I'm having trouble with it and have multiple questions.

  1. Should tier 3 have a boost to kicking pallets/breakable walls/generators, and if so how much?
  2. Should tier 2 have a boost to kicking pallets/breakable walls/generators, and if so how much?
  3. Should the Shape be able to toggle between tiers 1 and 2?
  4. Should Tier 1 be buffed (higher movement speed, removed lunge penalty)?
  5. Should the Tombstone Add on be reworked? If so, how?
  6. Should the Tombstone piece Add on be Reworked? If so, how?

Comments

  • Langweilig Langweilig

    I think one and two would be fine. 3 Why? What‘s the point of that? 4: Definitely. 5 and 6 Simply no. It‘s the main point of Myers.

    I personally hope they don‘t rework him, but they can add some stuff to its current version and buff it. I personally would like to get 4.7 m/s by reaching tier 2 or 3. Maybe they should add another tier for that before tier 3.

  • LordGlint LordGlint

    @Langweilig said:

    I think one and two would be fine. 3 Why? What‘s the point of that? 4: Definitely. 5 and 6 Simply no. It‘s the main point of Myers.

    I personally hope they don‘t rework him, but they can add some stuff to its current version and buff it. I personally would like to get 4.7 m/s by reaching tier 2 or 3. Maybe they should add another tier for that before tier 3.

    Individual addons are definitely NOT the main point of Myers. Number 3 I understand in that Tier 1 is good for stealth play. Being able to swap back and forth would allow me to play stealthy builds without using perks like monitor.

  • Langweilig Langweilig

    @LordGlint said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790167#Comment_3790167

    Individual addons are definitely NOT the main point of Myers. Number 3 I understand in that Tier 1 is good for stealth play. Being able to swap back and forth would allow me to play stealthy builds without using perks like monitor.

    For me tombstone is one of his main points with the mirror addons. Nobody really plays Myers without either of those addons.

    I would prefer when they kept the undetectable in tier two or just gave tier one faster movement speed or both.

  • LordGlint LordGlint

    @Langweilig said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790176#Comment_3790176

    For me tombstone is one of his main points with the mirror addons. Nobody really plays Myers without either of those addons.

    I would prefer when they kept the undetectable in tier two or just gave tier one faster movement speed or both.

    If ANY addon in this game is the only appeal to a killer, that should be an obvious sign of a problem. As someone who plays Myers and doesn't touch those addons... I can also say you're wrong in thinking no one plays Myers using his other addons.

  • Langweilig Langweilig

    @LordGlint said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790177#Comment_3790177

    If ANY addon in this game is the only appeal to a killer, that should be an obvious sign of a problem. As someone who plays Myers and doesn't touch those addons... I can also say you're wrong in thinking no one plays Myers using his other addons.

    Shure you can play without those addons, but they are obviously the coolest ones he has, that‘s also why I never see a Myers without them. I don‘t see that as a problem and I would hate them becoming basekit as well as being removed.

  • solarjin1 solarjin1

    @TheSingleQuentinMain said:

    Behavior said that the Shape is getting some reworks done, and right now we don't exactly know what that means, but I wanted to figure out what people hope it means. I want to make a video essay on what I would like done to him, but first I wanted to gauge how some people think he should be reworked by making a small questionnaire. I know the Forums has a poll system but I'm having trouble with it and have multiple questions.

    1. Should tier 3 have a boost to kicking pallets/breakable walls/generators, and if so how much?
    2. Should tier 2 have a boost to kicking pallets/breakable walls/generators, and if so how much?
    3. Should the Shape be able to toggle between tiers 1 and 2?
    4. Should Tier 1 be buffed (higher movement speed, removed lunge penalty)?
    5. Should the Tombstone Add on be reworked? If so, how?
    6. Should the Tombstone piece Add on be Reworked? If so, how?

    Tombstone piece should be completely change. A instant kill mechanic is extremely problematic and hard to balance. Pig bear trap a perfect example. It doesn't matter how weak they make the traps.. people keep finding builds to cheese the kills. Sadako got rework back to back to back because of how unbalance a instant kill can get in solo q.

  • Langweilig Langweilig

    @solarjin1 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/425548/the-shape-rework-inquiry

    Tombstone piece should be completely change. A instant kill mechanic is extremely problematic and hard to balance. Pig bear trap a perfect example. It doesn't matter how weak they make the traps.. people keep finding builds to cheese the kills. Sadako got rework back to back to back because of how unbalance a instant kill can get in solo q.

    Sadako got reworked to buff her mori mechanic the first time and the second time she got reworked, because people didn‘t like how she changed and not necessarily because the mori was too strong.

  • solarjin1 solarjin1

    @Langweilig said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790194#Comment_3790194

    Sadako got reworked to buff her mori mechanic the first time and the second time she got reworked, because people didn‘t like how she changed and not necessarily because the mori was too strong.

    she 100% got change the last time because the mori was to strong.

  • Langweilig Langweilig

    @solarjin1 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790202#Comment_3790202

    she 100% got change the last time because the mori was to strong.

    Nah. Her playstile was extremely unfun for both sides (tp spam + tape break) and behavior said it themself: Many longtime onryo players were not happy about how she changed, so they did it to please them, which they did partly. I personally think her first version was the best and most fun, so I still hope we get that one back with todays buffs.

  • solarjin1 solarjin1

    @Langweilig said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790203#Comment_3790203

    Nah. Her playstile was extremely unfun for both sides (tp spam + tape break) and behavior said it themself: Many longtime onryo players were not happy about how she changed, so they did it to please them, which they did partly. I personally think her first version was the best and most fun, so I still hope we get that one back with todays buffs.

    Agree to disagree . She always been a teleport spammer that pretty much had nothing to do with it. She got change because she was too effective at spreading condemn. It was a global condemn. The first iteration was slug heavy but actually took quite a bit of skill so i can see why it was prefer by her mains

  • Astel Astel

    For 1,2, and 4, yeah, definitely.

    Not sure how effective implementing point 3 would be.

    For 5 and 6, I know that many people hate this add-on, but I actually like playing as & against these add-ons. As a survivor, it gives me a great thrill to run away from the threat, and as a killer, I think it reflects well how cruel Myers is.

  • pandorayr pandorayr

    • Myers level 1 needs a base speed 4.4ms.
    • Myers level 2 needs a terror radius of 24 meters.
    • Unhooking a survivor from the hook resets evil from within on survivors to 0 (this simple solution would allow stalk more times)

    For me the main problem with Myers is that at level 1 he is too slow in speed, Ghostface has 4.6 speed and hides the terror radius.
    Stalking survivors is too slow but Ghostface stalks faster and is more stealthy, Myers should level up much faster to level 3 because in late games Myers becomes a m1 killer and cannot use level 3 evil within all survivors with red auras.

  • Seraphor Seraphor

    I agree with faster tier 1, and faster break actions in tier 3.

    Tombstone add ons definitely need looking at.

    Tombstone peice isn't too bad as it's fairly limiting, perhaps if it only worked on survivors who had been fully stalked, you at least then have some accountability on the survivors side and can't blindside survivors in their first chase.

    Judiths tombstone should probably only work on survivors that have already been hooked at least once, or something along those lines.

  • Ayodam Ayodam

    @Langweilig said:

    I think one and two would be fine. 3 Why? What‘s the point of that? 4: Definitely. 5 and 6 Simply no. It‘s the main point of Myers.

    I personally hope they don‘t rework him, but they can add some stuff to its current version and buff it. I personally would like to get 4.7 m/s by reaching tier 2 or 3. Maybe they should add another tier for that before tier 3.

    I love tombstone but there’s no way he can be zipping around the map with what’s basically old moris. There has to be a trade off. I hope they just leave him be tbh. I don’t want the add-ons touched at all but I also understand the base kit cannot be buffed while he has his current add-ons

  • Dwight_Fairfield Dwight_Fairfield

    Michael doesn't need a rework. He just needs tweaks to his existing kit.

    They should either remove tier 1, or let him start with it 99'ed so he can just tap into tier 2 as soon as he spots a survivor, or increase the speed and lunge of tier 1.

    Stalk should regenerate on survivors after X amount of time.

    They should remove the stalk speed/distance feature.

    They need to put an activation button feature on tier 3 instead of having to perfectly 99 it. Like Oni's power. He doesn't fly off into blood fury mode as soon as he maxes his blood orbs. You need to activate it. Tier 3 should have the same.

    He should break pallets faster in tier 3 to go with the mega lunge and fast vault speed. Tier 3 is supposed to be Mikey at his most powerful so give him the full monty.

    Tombstone add on is fine. He has to work to get it going and anyone with a brain knows that if he's taking his sweet time to pop tier 3 then it's likely tombstone. Piece however is pretty broken and needs changing or complete removal.

    Also since they often put a killer's most popular add on base kit, like they did with windstorm on Wraith for example, then they should give Mikey the J Myers memorial add on. 25% faster stalk rate at base.

    If they implemented these changes Michael would be in a perfect spot.

  • LadyOwO LadyOwO

    Hopefully they are reworking judith's tombstone if they're cypress mori base kit again.

  • Devil_hit11 Devil_hit11

    my ideas were written in this post.

    @Devil_hit11 said:

    General changes:

    ->Increased stalking speed by 25%.
    ->Increased active movement speed stalking to 1.42 m/s.
    ->Increased passive stalking to 4.14 m/s.

    Evil Within 1 changes:

    → Granting to detect survivors in a 32 meter radius revealing their aura's.[Lost upon reaching tier 2]
    →The shape can now build bloodlust.[Lost upon reaching tier 2]
    → Bloodlust effect are increased by 50%. This means that shape will be granted 0.3(7.5%)/0.6(15%)/0.9(22.5%) movement speed for Bloodlust 1, Bloodlust 2 and Bloodlust 3 respectively.[Lost upon reaching tier 2]

    Evil within II changes

    • Increased vaulting speed from 1.48 ->1.2 seconds
    • Lunge opening time increased from 0.5 to 0.8.

    -[New] added the ability for Michael Myers to have increased stun recovery rate by 50%.

    Evil within III changes

    -Increased Lunge opening time from 0.8 to 1.0

    -Increases vaulting speed from 1.2 to 1 second.

    -Stun recovery rate increased to 75%.

    -[New] Every time Evil within 3 is activated, Gain 1% haste for the entire trial. [Max 15%]

    -]new] Disables Bloodlust for Evil Within III and Evil within II upon reaching Evil Within II.

    Add-on changes:

    Blond hair:

    When Evil within 3 fully ends, regain 10% stalk to evil within.

    Boyfriend's Memo:

    Increases Window vaulting speed by 30% in Evil within 1.

    Memorial Flower:

    When a survivor is hooked, All survivors regain 20% their missing stalk points.

    Tacky Earrings:

    When performing the stalking action, All pallets and Windows are revealed in 52 meter radius. The effect persists for 5 seconds after stalking.

    Dead Rabbit:

    Reduces your total terror radius by 6 meters.

    Reflective Fragment:

    Increases your terror radius in evil within 2 and Evil Within III by 12 meters.

    Hair brush:

    When a survivor is fully stalked, they are inflicted with the exhausted effect.

    Jewellery:

    Upon tiering from Evil within II to Evil within III, gain 50% haste for 3 seconds.

    Jewellery Box

    After completely regressing from Evil within III to Evil within II, The generator with highest progression becomes blocked for 20 seconds.

    Hair bow:

    Increases the duration of Evil within III by 20 seconds.

    J.Myer's Memorial:

    Increases your pallet breaking speed by 20% when you are in evil within 3.

    Judith Journal

    The obsession altruistic healing speed is reduced by 25% for the entire trial.

    -Mirror shard

    Reduces stalking distance penalty by -20%.

    Tombstone Piece

    -Grants the ability to kill healthy and injured Survivors by your own hands while in Evil Within III.
    -Killing a Survivor drains the Power Gauge by -200 %, but not past Evil Within II.
    -Increases the threshold to reach Evil Within III for the first time to 300 %.
    -Reduces movement speed by 15% while in Evil within II.

    Vanity Mirror

    -Evil Within 2 can no longer progress past Tier II.
    -The auras of all Survivors within 16 metres of your location are revealed to you while Stalking. The aura persists for 5 seconds after stalking
    -Gain 5% haste for 10 seconds after landing a basic attack.
    -Grants +150 % bonus Bloodpoints in the Deviousness Category for Hit Score Events on top of the regular Bloodpoints granted in the brutality Category.

    Scratched Mirror:

    -Evil Within can no longer progress past Tier I.
    -Increases the reach of Lunge Attacks while in Evil Within I by +50 %.
    -Grants +200 % bonus Bloodpoints in the Deviousness Category for Hit Score Events on top of the regular Bloodpoints granted in the brutality Category.

    Lock of hair:

    -After performing a successful basic attack in Evil within 3 that would put a survivor into the dying state, Return to Evil within 2.[The amount of evil within 2 is retained, for example if Michael has 80% of evil within 3, He will have 80% of Evil within 2 after exiting tier 3]
    -No longer grants 1% stacking haste bonus for entering evil within 3 for the entire trial.

    Fragrant Tuft of Hair

    Grants unlimited duration to Evil Within III.
    Increases the threshold to reach Evil Within III for the first time to 250 %.

    Judith's Tombstone

    Grants the ability to kill healthy and injured Survivors by your own hands while in Evil Within III.
    Increases the threshold to reach Evil Within III for the first time to 350 %.
    Reduces your Movement speed by -15 % while in Evil Within III.

    jist is. buff myer's base-kit and m1 gameplay. weaken tombstone and judith tombstone.

  • Dustin Dustin

    3. I feel being able to switch between EW1 and EW2 should be the main premise of a rework

    6. I would rework the purple addon Tombstone Piece to act as it does now except instead of killing a survivor it adds a hook state to them. You would "execute" a survivor as normal but when thrown to the ground they enter the dying state and the Entity snatches them up and remote hooks them to the farthest hook on the map. You can tweak the numbers outside of this as you wish.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies GonnaBlameTheMovies

    I think this should be the rework or part of it:

    1. Tier 1 begins you as a 110% Killer with normal lunge and vault. You are Undetectable. You don't regain this state when you Tier up to Tier 2.
    2. Tier 2 makes you 115% and gives you a quicker pallet break speed. No Vault increase. You can hold in this state indefinitely if you want.
    3. Tier 3 allows you to walk through pallets and walls to break them, and gives you the longer lunge and vault speed. It also gives 5% haste for 60 seconds. You can 99 Tier 3 and use it as needed. You can Mori the Obsession basekit in this state, but only if they are Death Hook and this ONLY applies to the Obsession.
    4. You cannot run out of stalk, on anyone. You always have access to stalk juice.
    5. Tombstone addons are changed and now extend the duration of Tier 3. Tombstone Piece makes it permanent until you Down someone, then it drains you back to Tier 2 and you need to gain it again. Tombstone does not extend Tier 3 to start, but is now an endgame addon like Dracula's shield addon that immediately sets you to Tier III when the Exit gates are powered for the duration of the endgame.
    6. When you Mori, you can grab people out of lockers, off gens, off chests. etc., but not off of hooks.

    I feel like some of these even would be a big improvement. Make Tiering Up allow for more of a risk and raised stakes just like in the films.

  • katoptris katoptris

    @Seraphor said:

    I agree with faster tier 1, and faster break actions in tier 3.

    Tombstone add ons definitely need looking at.

    Tombstone peice isn't too bad as it's fairly limiting, perhaps if it only worked on survivors who had been fully stalked, you at least then have some accountability on the survivors side and can't blindside survivors in their first chase.

    Judiths tombstone should probably only work on survivors that have already been hooked at least once, or something along those lines.

    I'll be fine with this change but also evil within juice shouldn't run out.

  • TheArbiter TheArbiter

    I would be absolutely SHOCKED if tombstone piece isn't changed. This isn't 2016 DBD anymore, instakill addons shouldn't be a thing

  • Huge_Bush Huge_Bush

    @Ayodam said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790167#Comment_3790167

    I love tombstone but there’s no way he can be zipping around the map with what’s basically old moris. There has to be a trade off. I hope they just leave him be tbh. I don’t want the add-ons touched at all but I also understand the base kit cannot be buffed while he has his current add-ons

    All he needs is for the movement speed with Scratched Mirror to be increased by 150% 😋

  • Seraphor Seraphor

    @katoptris said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790332#Comment_3790332

    I'll be fine with this change but also evil within juice shouldn't run out.

    I think hooking a survivor should replenish 50% of their evil meter. That would be an incentive to hook.

    Combine that with the tombstone add ons requiring a hook and maximum stalk on a given survivor to activate, and you've got a fairly balanced instadeath mechanic with a built in tunnel deterrent.

  • Ayodam Ayodam

    @Huge_Bush said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790342#Comment_3790342

    All he needs is for the movement speed with Scratched Mirror to be increased by 150% 😋

    I don’t trust them to not ruin him like lame ass Freddy. I just want him left alone at this point. I don’t want his add-ons touched at all and I know if they adjust his basekit they’re gonna nerf his add-ons.

  • Huge_Bush Huge_Bush

    @Ayodam said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790696#Comment_3790696

    I don’t trust them to not ruin him like lame ass Freddy. I just want him left alone at this point. I don’t want his add-ons touched at all and I know if they adjust his basekit they’re gonna nerf his add-ons.

    Hopefully this is a numbers pass and they don’t touch his base-kit. And if it is a numbers pass, hopefully the numbers are only buffs.I know I’m rare but I actually like facing Tombstone as a Survivor. Not many Killers keep you on your toes and make you as worried as Myers can with that add-on. As Killer, I think it’s boring because it takes so long to stalk 🙃.

  • redglyph redglyph

    Removed disadvantages of Mirror add-on
    I would like it to be possible to raise the tier even with the Mirror add-on.
    If you don't want to raise the tier, just look across the obstacle.

    How to raise the tier
    than 1→2→3→2→3...
    I want it to be 1→2→3→1→2→3...
    The number of times you can reach Tier 3 will remain the same.

  • Ginnypig Ginnypig

    Leave him just the way he is, tombstone myers might the only thing countering SWF epidemic at this stage, you need to find unhealthy with unhealthy. (Yes i face 9/10 matches russians swf with steptics and bullshit perks)

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