Why is the community jumping the gun on The Nurses changes when the PTB isn't even out yet?
introduction
Alright so, this post will focus on almost everything everyone is talking about. It might leave some things out, but it will more so be focusing on the key aspects to why a lot of people are freaking out about The Nurses "nerf" and changes.
Keep this in mind before you continue reading, The Nurses PTB has not even been released yet... So literally nobody has any first hand experience on how she'll actually play...
I draw attention to this point because everyone is automatically assuming she's "trash tier" now... despite nobody even playing her PTB, and despite a lot of people never even touching Nurse or "getting gud" with her in the first place...
Alright, lets get into this train wreck ha ha.
the Nurses base-kit changes
First off, before we can discuss everything people are drawing attention to... we need to discuss the most important thing first... We'll be focusing FIRST on the nurses base-kit changes. Below is a quote from the post that informed us all of her base-kit changes, and we'll be dissecting it...
- Previously, the Nurse could double blink, go through fatigue, then immediately double blink again. This did not leave the Survivors with much of an opportunity to break line of sight. A recharge mechanic for blink charges has been added to limit how quickly she can perform multiple blinks. Rather than immediately receiving all her blink charges following fatigue, she will instead regain charges one at a time. Each charge takes three seconds starting from the beginning of her fatigue. This time can be reduced through add-ons.
Ok so for one, this is by far the most talked about change about the Nurse, her multiple blink charge time changes...
While yes, this is a very new take on her chase mechanics... it overall doesn't really effect her all that much. Let me explain, beforehand as the quote states The Nurse could use two blinks during a chase, go into a fatigue state, than re-use those two blinks for the next portion of the chase.
What they did, is change that 2nd part of what I said, and now has The Nurse wait 3 seconds before she can regain each blink...
Now than, all this change does... ALL it does... is change how fast a Nurse can down a Survivor... that's it... If you want a blunt explanation of what this does, it just makes the chase a bit longer than it usually is... AND it also makes it more realistic for Survivors and even the Killer. For one, The Nurse can no longer just destroy a Survivor in a chase and hook them... they'll now have to focus more on managing their blinks, as well as their limitations within the chase as well...
Nurses will have to effectively decide when to blink now, and also they'll need to focus more on obstacles they blink through, rather than falling back on a second blink and annihilating any hope a Survivors has within said chase...
They can no longer just body a Survivor around a loop, they'll either have to wait 6 seconds to regain both charges, or they'll have to decide if they can pull of a single blink hit at the loop with mind-games, etc... Keep in mind, if the Survivor is at a loop... waiting 6 seconds really doesn't mean anything at all... and if you're good with Nurse, you'll only need one blink to get them around the loop.
This is literally all this change does, it doesn't make Nurse horrible, it doesn't make her less viable, it just makes her more realistic... AND it also makes "Omega Blinks" less OP... And i'm sure most people can agree that having multiple blinks with no punishment besides a small fatigue is quite horrid for anyone to face...
NEXT, we'll add the first point above along with this next point with the add-on changes...
The Nurses add-on changes
For one, I will only be talking about some of the add-on changes... (Not all of them) as if I started talking about ALL of the add-on changes than this post would be 10 paragraphs long and nobody would read it... (It's already long enough as is...)
First off, I want to point everyone's attention to an interesting add-on change.
Jenner's Last Breath
- After blinking, allows the Nurse to immediately blink back to her original position by pressing the Secondary Power Button. Requires a blink charge and must be triggered during the chain blink window.
This add-on change is very interesting... it actually has the potential to be scary in a chase... Because a lot of Nurses do face Survivors that like to run back towards where they blinked... so with this add-on, you can actually pull of some "sick tricks" by blinking ahead than immediately blinking back to your original spot and hitting the Survivor when they double back to your original position...
Quite a unique add-on indeed, and I for one find it very useful against Survivors that know how to juke blinks. Of course I'm not the best Nurse (I don't main her I just recently got some what gud with her for once after months of avoid her all together because of how boring she is.) BUT! With this add-on, even a pro-nurse can pull off some seriously cool mind-games with it...
Fragile Wheeze and Dark Cincture
- Fragile Wheeze Decreases blink recharge time by 30% (0.9 seconds).
- Dark Cincture Decreases blink recharge time by 20% (0.6 seconds).
These two deserve their own spot in this section... they literally decrease the new base-kit blink charge times by 0.9 seconds, and 0.6 seconds... Making the total blink recharge time 1.5 seconds...
That almost makes each blink recharge exactly how it was Pre-change... So if you're someone who despises the blink charge times... use these two add-ons to literally make that change almost non-existent... ALMOST.
It's still going to make each blink phase take a bit longer during the chase, so The Nurse will be almost playing at a Pre-Base-kit level... Which everyone seems to be saying was "fine"
So no issues right?
Matchbox and Torn Bookmark
- Match Box Rarity changed from Common to Ultra Rare. Removes 1 blink charge. Increases base movement speed to 4.2 m/s.
- Torn Bookmark Rarity changed from Common to Ultra Rare. Adds 1 blink charge. The Nurse can no longer blink to locations not in her line of sight.
Now this add-on combo for the Ultra-Rares sounds very scary on paper... While yes the Torn Bookmark changes the distance a Nurse can blink because of the line of sight change... it benefits the player by adding an extra blink to counter-act the effects of Match Box, while also increasing the base movement speed to 4.2...
Now, 4.2 isn't really that fast... it's about say... a tad bit slower than Huntress by 0.2 but in theory, this sounds fairly scary as with the added benefit of walking a fair bit faster than a Survivor now a long with two blinks within her link of sight, really does make it an interesting add-on combo for the future... Of course this does make loops with high walls a bit tricky, it should make looping around these loops a bit more interest when you can snap at them around the corner and get a hit with a blink.
Of course this is in theory, as... nobody knows how it would truly go yet without testing it in the PTB.
Now, lets talk about the last two notable changes to the add-ons, as the rest of the changes are just small little niche changes or they're pre-existing changes.
"Bad Man's" Last Breath and Campbell's Last Breath
- With "Bad Man's" Last Breath hitting a survivor with a successful blink attack grants The Nurse the Undetectable status for 16 seconds.This effect may be only triggered once every 60 seconds.
- With Campbell's Last Breath after reappearing from a fully charged blink, The Nurse immediately blinks at half charge in the direction she is currently facing.
For once, Bad Man's Last Breath sounds interesting, it adds a tinge of stealth in a chase while The Nurse try's to say... mind-game at loops or behind walled off areas in the chase. An interest addition, but besides that nothing much more to say...
But Campbell's Last Breath is a bit different. It the add-on sounds like it gives the option to blink ahead at half a charge, but it seems to be unclear whether this is a effect that happens after every first blink now or not. What I do know is that if that's the case after every first blink, it seems like blinking to a Survivor is a lot faster than it was previously with half the cost of the 2nd blink.
If it's not automatic, that's still half a blink saved for another 2 blink assault on a Survivor...
the main point of this post though
Now, we've noted some interesting add-on changes the main issue above, so we'll continue both of those here... A lot of people are complaining that her base-kit changes and add-on changes are going to make her low-tier now. But that isn't the case at all, from what I've taken away from this, all this does is make her base-kit a lot more realistic to use and face as a Survivor while also giving The Nurse her usual ability to be a Top-Tier threat.
If 6 seconds is a lot to you in a chase with a Killer that can usually annihilate any Survivor (If you're pro with Nurse or semi-pro) than I don't know what to tell ya... that's kind of a narrow minded assumption to make on something that isn't even fully released yet.
AND, her add-on changes can even lessen the base-kit change so this entire discussion really doesn't make sense to me... You don't even need to use both add-ons to lessen the time, you can just use the primary one that reduces 0.9 seconds, and than use a fatigue reduction add-on or something... or even one of the Ultra-Rare add-ons or BETTER YET, you can use something like Jenner's Last Breath...
Let's be realistic guys, and say that this is a good thing for her add-ons. It removes Omega Blinks which has been a controversial topic for years now, and it improves upon add-ons that literally nobody bothers using. Which allows Killers to use different routes and builds in each game they play as Nurse now...
And who knows, maybe this can actually make her fun to play now. As playing a apex Killer with literally no downsides in a chase sounds pretty boring...
And besides, we still have Hill Billy which is one of the most fleshed out Killers in the game, so everyone that's saying "Now we have no Top-Tier Killers to use BHVR!!!" than what about Hill Billy? He still exists... why not use him. He's not the funnest to play but he can fit the bill as a scary threat to face while being a realistic one indeed.
These changes needed to happen guys, it really did... to be quite honest The Nurse is from a dead era of DBD where a lot of the meta was quite absurd and OP. And since that era is gone, the meta has changed and so to must some of the Killer that used to have ability's and such that countered that old absurd meta... Like Nurse.
We don't need a Killer that absurd and unorthodox to play anymore as a end all be all to facing SWFs or a coordinated team... It's time people branched out to other Killers to seek leverage and hey... you might even find one that's fun to play despite being worse than Nurse or Billy... And even if that's the main issue people have... The Nurse is still Top-Tier, she's just less ridiculous now... That doesn't mean she still can't kick some serious butt within a game.
If you were good with Nurse before, than you'll have no issue adjusting to these changes... I promise you that. And if you weren't good with her, you can still learn how to play her... nothing is really hindering you to do that.
One last thing, if you're not experienced or well versed in anything about The Nurse... aka you can't play her, than I don't see why these changes matter to anyone who mains Killer that doesn't use her... If you play without her against a coordinated team or a SWF with say Hill Billy or anyone else, why does this matter to you?
And if you're a Survivor... shouldn't this make you happy?
a small point about console nurses
Also, pro console Nurses exist guys... I don't know why nobody thinks that's the case... This change does matter to console users also, and it very much makes facing them on console a lot easier now.
Of course, if you're a pro with nurse regardless of the platform you'll adjust to these changes in no time, it just makes facing her on ANY platform less of a headache...
tl;dr
Base-kit was changed to be more realistic for Survivors and for The Nurse as a whole, her change doesn't make her any less powerful than she is already... It just makes her less of a massive threat within a chase. And while some people might argue that the only Killer that can counter SWFs or coordinated teams is gone now...
Hill-Billy still exists guys, and despite that The Nurse is still a Top-Tier Killer, her blink change just makes Survivors that're not in a SWF or coordinated team actually have a chance to face the Nurse in a chase now... Instead of being destroyed within 30 seconds of said chase...
They can actually use loops now on her and pallets, and they can use windows and think tactically when facing her now... Instead of the chase just ending instantly every time... How boring is that right?
Also, a lot of her add-on changes reflect a more healthy and generalized pick of what to bring within the game now as a Nurse. Instead of picking say... 3 add-ons now, you can pick twice as much or more... It really does improve the variety with her add-ons and I for one believe that's quite a healthy change.
And lets be honest to anyone who's reading this with daggers in their eyes, this change needed to happen... She was very ridiculous and unrealistic to face as any Survivor and her concept is from a dead meta and era of DBD that isn't around anymore... this change NEEDED to happen despite the backlash and hate towards it... Think of it this way, does facing a Omega Blink, Mori, Ruin, Pro-Nurse sound fun to you as a Survivor? Does having literally no hope of winning with a team that isn't coordinated or a SWF sound fun?
No... it doesn't, and that's coming from someone who doesn't main Survivor and knows how hard she can be to face with previous experience facing her and playing her (Not the best nurse obviously, but I can somewhat effectively use her now...)
It's quite boring, and one more thing... I don't see why anyone should care about these changes if they don't have any experience with The Nurse themselves... that's one more thing I find a bit odd.
And if you're a Survivor... shouldn't this make you happy that Omega Blink is being changed or her base-kit is different and more realistic towards you in a chase now?
Comments
There are people like: "Oh ######### the most OP killer in the game is getting nerfed, I haven't played the nurse yet but let's join others to complain about the change."
You clearly never played against red rank survivors. One second of additional time to escape or longer the chase is a big deal. Three seconds is just insane.
EDIT: I am a nurse main at red ranks. I will test out the changes, but the new nurse won't be S tier anymore, don't even A tier.
"You clearly never played against red rank survivors."
"..."
Yeah, I think I have played against Red Rank Survivors... more than once... lol...
If you're following them after fatigue and wait literally 4-3 seconds... IT ISN'T A BIG DEAL! Seriously... How is 4 or 3 seconds going to do anything when you can blink across two tiles with ease, and another blink to follow up...
The only issue this bodes is if you're in a place like Lerys or Hawkins, which is hard enough for a Nurse already since there are mutiple walls and areas to hide...
It's like the herd mentality with Legion all over again, I don't get why people do that honestly...
Nurse is pretty bad on console as is. This will just make it to where you’ll never see her in red ranks.
The point of that little segment is that it'll effect anyone who plays her really well on console also, but if they adjust to it they'll eventually overcome it.
But yeah, there are less Nurse mains on console than PC because of the two different controls.
I'm really surprised thst you are red ranks. Because you should know it's a big deal. Three seconds are massive, survivors can get to tiles, just break LoS and run away, there are so much more chances for survivors to escape or lobger the chase now.
*you know what I am going to do*
But I think they need to wait for PTB at LEAST!
I Red Rank every season when I actually care to... (Or when i'm around and not on a huge break) it isn't hard to get to Red Ranks and face Red Rank Survivors...
Regardless, who cares about ranks. I understand your point though, I just don't agree that it'll be that big of a deal. BUT WHO KNOWS!!! We'll have to see when the PTB arrives in say... Idk... 6 or 9 hours? I think?
And yeah, I think the base-kit was changed to promote the variety of what to do in a chase now. Where instead if the Nurse could easily get your or just knew how to handle every scenario... than you were gonna get downed fast.
I think we all need to wait for PTB to even continue the conversation at this point.
Give it 6 or 9 hours and we'll see how this goes.
nurse is still top tier, people are just mad that BHVR is taking away their power trips
nurse is still the only killer that ignores all game mechanics survivors have that EVERY OTHER KILLER has to follow
I agree!
Also earlier it was *Cries in Legion Main*
I do that alot.
I only read the TL;DR, but I couldn't agree more. People really tend to only think about the side they main, which is a shame. Now survivors will have fair counterplay and playing against Nurse might actually be enjoyable. Now all they need to do is make Spirit's counterplay less luck based and more skill based and then any changes killers need are buffs to the weak ones.
Basically.
Now... we wait... FOREVE-
In 6 or 9 hours!
I don't really like the changes but hey, I'm hopeful they aren't gonna just go like this to live and will receive tweeks. On an urelated note, love the red background lol
Thank you, and yeah... but we'll see how it goes first hand when the PTB drops in 6 or 9 hours... Which is 12PM EST time or 3 PM EST time.
I don't think it'll be terrible per se, I just don't think it was the right call to nerf her basekit but I'm hoping it's either not as bad or they change some stuff. Btw how do you get that red background?
Why do people keep bringing up the Legion update?
He wasn't nerfed. Legion went from being a bad Killer to being a bad Killer for different reasons.
Nope! Only forever wait is on Legion buffs! It's okay though! I got a topic over in Feedback about it that's being lovely right now to read!
Honestly, this is the best description of the Legion Rework that I have read here.
Here, take my +.
And my Axe.
That's a whole different meme to discuss, we'll just leave it at... some things about him that previously made him unique don't exist anymore with Post-Patch Legion, and now he feels more akin to a life-less husk of his former self.
But we'll leave it at that, cause that's a whole different topic on a different Killer.
An ode to the Legion and Nurse players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9odzlxOpP0That is at least Legion! But let's wait for PTB!
(Also I loved Phantom Pain! Till the giant robot... after that it was WEIRD!)
It's given to people who have the role of "Trusted."
If you're interested on any common questions like "How to join" or "What do Trusted members do" here's the link
We're currently in PILOT, and are subject to further changes and member expansion.
Ohh new stuff. I'm not really interested in being trusted or a mod or anything, but I do like reading new stuff lol
Hello! Legion main here! Legion is a bit hard to use cause of there power and they did get WAY over nerfed! But remember that there are people that enjoy that Rush down play style! Try and not be insulting! Thank you!
It usually comes down to...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYihhSS9kicTHAN READ AWAY!
It's an interesting concept indeed.
Yeah basically... But change will come regardless if people like it or not...
This is how we move forward as a community and begin our journey towards a more balanced and fun experience for both sides... Though that journey maybe endless, the progress towards it speaks volumes.
But enough of that fancy talk, what I mean is that people need to accept that some things need to be changed to improve the experience of one side over the other... I think Nurses have had their fun in the sun with a Killer that doesn't really follow any of the games mechanics except their own...
It's like having a character in a maze, but the character can no clip through the walls to the finish line.
Thank lol
The fatigue was the break between blinks and can be very disorienting, now we have a fatigue and a forced break. Why not make the fatigue longer or just scrap it altogether and make the breaks longer
I mean, anythings possible. Like I've said though, the PTB isn't out yet so we won't really know if anything will change yet.
That's what the PTB is for though, to see if things need to be changed if they pose too much of an issue.
I'm not convinced that the nurse was as OP as everyone claims, they just needed to play differently
I don't really think the changes will squash her to her demise, for me, it feels like they're trying to make her chase a bit longer than it used to be (as current Nurse's chases end extremely quick). But who knows, have to wait until the PTB came out so we can try it out!
look at the devs history how they treating their killers and you got your answer.
I mean, if you faced a Nurse that knew exactly what to do while circumventing around loops like a knife slicing through butter...
Than you'd know what I mean. And hey, maybe you have and still don't know what I mean... so I guess people see it differently, which is 100% A-OK!
They've done a lot of good with Killers actually, and of course they've done some questionable things with others.
It's best not to draw conclusions if you know what I mean...
i only remember freddy. even tho his addons suck ass like most of the killers. thats also a point
Well, they did good with adding Demogorgons shred to his base-kit, Spirit got a lot better after her PTB, making her a big threat, they just changed Nurses Omega Blink (Something a lot of people hated).
Uh, they changed GhostFaces distance towards when he can be broken out of Night Shroud, which made him a lot more viable for Red Ranks now, they're looking into changing Pigs base-kit and add-ons for the future, Freddy's Rework, they changed the lunge perception to be more accurate and equal between all Killers, stuff like that to name a few.
The addons are very interesting. I'm starting of thinking to trying them in PTB :)
Same!
I died numerous times to the nurse but it's never been the hopeless situation survivors make it out to be
Perhaps you haven't found THE ONE yet, and you probably never will now since the changes for her are soon.
I feel like most people are jumping the gun simply because it was mainly advertised as an addon rework for the longest time, and more recently was advertised as that plus a slight change, keyword being slight. Everyone is scared because Legion got completely thrashed, and those were advertised as slight changes. Everyone's PTSD is acting up. I personally disagree with the changes, but hopefully they change it in the PTB if there is enough outcry and it really is as bad as it seems.
It's possible, that'd make sense to why people are so defensive to a Killer change now... Or just a change in-general now.
Because the community is really dumb. If you spend any amount of time on the forums and look at the kinds of things that most people end up saying, it's impressively stupid. They have no understanding of the game or how balancing should work. They have no logical evidence to back up arguments, just awful reasonings that can easily be picked apart. I would honestly just ignore almost everything you see on the forums because you are going to be wasting air trying to convince people on here.
How long did it take you to write that novel?
Well, i'm not really convincing them to change their opinion to mine, its more so to clash opinions and see why the other side thinks that way or something.
It's fun discussing things.
15 minutes I think.
I'm used to writing paragraphs for something as simple as a comment on a post lmao.