The One Stop Shop for Legion ideas! Come on in and take a look...
So me and @LordGlint were talking about DBD and I told him that I was working on an Idea for Legion. I originally wanted something that hearkened back to there gang. Some kind of locker insanity or something but honestly, none of that would work, or at the very least it would be rather hard to put in game. So we started asking, what is Legion's main issue? Well, his power is kinda useless. By the time you slash one person, the rest have gone OR if they are injured they hear your TR and just book it.
First of all, let's take the removal of the blood trail in FF and the "M1s remove 50% of your power" things away. Those are silly and honestly, neither of us could come up with one good reason the Devs did that.
Secondly, DO NOT WORRY! We are not making his power lethal or put the chase on a "Timer". That is why people hated old Legion. We don't want that again.
So back to the main point. What do you do when you see Legion put deep wounds on someone nearby? You BOOK IT! You can't hide, but you can get away till they get hit with the end of power stun. Survivors know about There presence in advance in the general area... in other words the next victims.
So, you might be asking yourself, what do you do? Well it's simple! You could do one or more of these things!
- Remove his TR and red stain in FF. Just straight remove it so that he can run up on survivors and get them with FF and surprise them. Make the KI work on a radius. You could say there Frenzy is so great it cuts the ties the Entity have put on them for a limited time.
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Make his base TR 16 and his FF TR 24. Kinda a new approach to the same idea. This way would also open up Legion to be able to sneak up better on the people he has hit with his FF and need to m1 now to down. Legion is already the shortest Killer (yes, shorter than Hag) so they could FINALLY live up to the trailer and be even a LITTLE sneaky.) HI! This has been voted down by the others in the thread but keeping it up for Reference! - After hitting two survivors with Feral Frenzy the Legions red stain is removed for x amount of seconds which would help with downs. Third hit lowers terror radius by 8 meters for x amount of seconds which could help with hitting that last survivor. With monitor and abuse the terror radius will be 16 meters. Addons could influence this.
- First two survivors hit with Feral Frenzy grants 2% increased movement speed each while the third grants a 1% increase bringing their movement speed in Feral Frenzy up to 130%. (numbers might be too low?)
- At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like. (After rereading this one, it's kinda Meh, so it wouldn't be good enough on it's own.)
- If a survivor stops mending then they are downed. Deep wound timer depletes while doing an action (mending, repairing, sabotaging and so on) even while near the killer. If not doing an action the deep wound timer does not deplete while within 32 meters of the killer.
You hit someone with FF and run off to hit someone else. You hit them and end your frenzy or don't make it ti them and end the power. When out of FF you hear the heartbeat and see the KI mark for a very short amount of time (for balance) every x amount of seconds while that first survivor is mending. (this was more of an Example)After thinking about it, I think @Kabu changed this one to Add-on only. Let me know if i'm wrong Kabu!
Thank you @Kabu For the 3-7 ideas and the next few add-ons till you get to Mob Mentality! I forgot to credit them before! Sorry!
"But what about the stun?" Well, if you think about it, it's similar to Nurse. It's there to make sure that you don't just end it and m1. You MIGHT be able to shorten it, but it's not bad because it serves it's purpose.
Add on suggestions:
- Survivors are revealed by killer instinct for a very short amount of time every x amount of seconds while mending When out of FF. See previous post for explanation.
- Survivors suffering from deep wound make louder injured noises. (This should be base, also make unique pain sounds, IE: more grunts and long, drawn out groans of pain)
- Survivors have their aura revealed for x amount of seconds when they stop mending.
Frank's mix tape rework: Hitting a survivor with FF then hitting another one and going back to hit the first survivor depletes the deep wound bar by a large amount. Maybe doesn't fully deplete the Frenzy bar but would still stun Legion. Would still be hard to down with frenzy but it adds pressure.Sorry Kabu, but the more I think about it the more I doubt you'd get in this situation too often.- Increases FF duration tremendously (5 to 8 seconds) but with increased stun duration (.5 seconds to 1 second)
- Survivors hit with FF suffer from the hindered status effect for a short time.
Honestly, even with JUST these changes, We think that Legion would be in a better place AND keep the play style that Legion players love. Maybe even add old FF speeds back? Edit: we NEED the old Vaulting speeds back. Being looped while in FF is the SADDEST feeling.
Also shoutout to @Frosty for getting me to think of this in the first place and for wanting me to post it.
This doesn't have many thoughts on Mending and Deep Wounds, cause after BT got it too, it's no longer just a Legion Issue.
AND NOW for a REALLY good idea from @MongByeolBuddies
Here's my idea to help with, imo, Legion's two main problems:
* For killers, that’s getting a second hit and downing the survivor.
* For survivors, it's having to mend, which is boring and makes Legion obnoxious to go against.
My solution -- Change the Deep Wound status effect and give Legion a secondary power -- Mob Mentality.
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Feral Frenzy:
Hitting a survivor not affected by the Deep Wound status effect during Feral Frenzy applies DW and gives Legion 1 charge of Mob Mentality.
Deep Wound now applies a 20 percent penalty to repair, healing and sabotage speeds.
Survivors now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.
Hitting a survivor affected by DW during Feral Frenzy applies 1 more DW. Survivors suffering from 4 Deep Wounds will enter the dying state. This will be tracked on the HUD.
Legion cannot use Mob Mentality during Feral Frenzy.
Legion can have up to 3 charges of Mob Mentality at one time.
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Mob Mentality:
Press the secondary power button to use 1 charge and summon a Legion member.
Any survivor within 16 meters of Legion will hear an audio cue -- a whistle -- when Mob Mentality is used.
The Legion member will appear 2 seconds later, crouched down in the spot you summoned him or her and wait for any survivor to get within range. When a survivor is within range, the Legion member will lunge at the survivor and attempt to hit them.
If a healthy survivor is hit, he or she will be injured; if an injured survivor is hit, he or she will enter the dying state.
Regardless of whether the hit connects, the Legion member will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
Legion can summon all three other members this way. If Legion summons a member while all three members are currently on the map, the first member to be summoned will switch to the new location. Legion cannot summon members within 8 meters of another member.
Survivors within 16 meters of Legion members can detect them by looking in their direction for 3 seconds. During detection, survivors will receive an audio cue. Once fully detected, the Legion members will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
If a survivor sets off a Mob Mentality trap, the Legion receives an audio and visual cue. If survivors fully detect a Legion member, the Legion does not receive an audio and visual cue.
Also, Mob Mentality is a trap so perks, such as Small Game, will work against it.
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Add-on changes to reflect the new Deep Wound status effect and Mob Mentality:
Smiley Face Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality.
Defaced Smiley Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 3 seconds.
The Legion Pin -- Start with 2 charges of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 5 seconds.
Nasty Blade -- Slightly increases the penalty to Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (5 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.
Filthy Blade -- Moderately increases the penalty to the Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (10 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.
Frank’s Mixed Tape -- Legion members are invisible to survivors outside of 8 meters.
Fuming Mixed Tape -- Legion no longer needs charges to use Mob Mentality. MM now has a 10-second cooldown. The Legion can no longer use Feral Frenzy.
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This will allow Legion to still be a rush down killer and buffs them by providing them a tool -- Mob Mentality -- to counter looping, as well as set ambushes.
This new change also allows Legion to use Mob Mentality whenever Legion wants (albeit not in Feral Frenzy), and the survivor will only be aware that Legion has used MM if the survivor is within 16 meters of Legion when MM is used.
The change to the DW status effect also means survivors no longer have to worry about mending. Survivors suffering from DW can heal themselves back to full health slightly slower than normal or the survivor can find a teammate not suffering from DW to heal back to full health without any speed penalty -- making going against Legion more enjoyable for survivors.
(This also would get rid of a few not strictly Legion problems: Nurse’s Calling not detecting mending and other anti-healing perks not affecting mending, and killers who can drop their terror radiuses like Freddy and The Pig making the DW timer tick down while still chasing a survivor, which feels cheap.)
(Borrowed Time can be changed to something like: After unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, for 11/13/15 seconds, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead apply the Deep Wound status effect.)
Plus, I think it would be awesome for Legion to actually play like, you know, a Legion! Lastly, if possible, it would be extremely cool if the teammates you summoned could wear any cosmetics you’ve acquired, making it so you could customize the look of your own Legion.
And now a variation of the above by @pemberley !
I propose that we take the same concept of Mob Mentality but instead the member seizes and holds the survivor in place for the player to stab. Every player in the map gets a scream notification, the killer sees the aura too. The grasp is inescapable except through other flashlight or cracker saves, if the survivor has a cracker themselves, or if the survivor “wiggles” like normal and claws at their hand or elbows them in the face - this would disable the trap, I think this would be more in line with Legion, it’s lore friendly, and probably won’t require as much code spaghetti as making accurate ai.
Which Mong added that the grab could give them either Exposed/Oblivious or both cause they are fighting out of the grab! Even if it didn't there are Add-on ideas that could do it!
Comments
Thank you so much! Just please please please keep the rushdown style! That's my favorite part... it's WHY i play Legion! We need to keep it!
These are suggestions that have come up before but I tweaked them a bit
1. Hitting three survivors with Feral Frenzy grants Legion a one hit down for x amount of seconds on the last survivor. Perhaps give the last survivor the exposed status effect. This one was suggestef before but I tweaked it a bit.
2. First two survivors hit with Feral Frenzy grants 2% increased movement speed each while the third grants a 1% increase bringing their movement speed in Feral Frenzy up to 130%.
3. At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like.
4. If a survivor stops mending then they are downed. Deep wound timer depletes while doing an action (mending, repairing, sabotaging and so on) even while near the killer. If not doing an action the deep wound timer does not deplete while within 32 meters of the killer.
To add to number 4, deep wound timer will be based off of distance from the killer and not the terror radius. So, with current Legion and this one change deep wound would not deplete when within 32 meters of the killer unless commiting to an action.
Oh! Those are rather good! Very interesting changes. I have to say my favorite part is the mend changes!
Here's a change to your suggestions:
After hitting two survivors with Feral Frenzy the Legions red stain is removed for x amount of seconds which would help with downs. Third hit lowers terror radius by 8 meters for x amount of seconds which could help with hitting that last survivor. With monitor and abuse the terror radius will be 16 meters. Addons could influence this.
Though any TR change might mean KI needs a change right? Radius, as I said in the first post.
Yeah, killer instinct should be seperate from terror radius anyways. Also, one change that needs to be made regardless to what other changes are made is reduce the FF stun time to 3 seconds from 4 seconds.
I agree. That Stun is hard to eat! DS'ed by my own power!
What do you think of this?
Survivors are revealed by killer instinct for a very short amount of time every x amount of seconds while mending When out of FF. Cannot be included with change number 4 (from my other post). Maybe this could be an add on?
Sneaky! Though, you have to use KI to find people IN FF right now. You cant track with scratch OR Blood.
My thinking was this, you hit someone with FF and run off to hit someone else. You hit them and end your frenzy or don't make it ti them and end the power. When out of FF you hear the heartbeat and see the KI mark for a very short amount of time (for balance) every x amount of seconds while that first survivor is mending. What also helps balance this is that it is hard to tell distance with killer instinct.
OHHHHH! That makes alot more sense! That's kinda sneaky! I like it.
This is my current though process with Legion changes. Survivors already don't like mending so I don't want to increase the time it take to fully mend. Debuffs like decreased repair speed are too oppressive apparently. So I'm thinking of ways to buff Legion for using his power rather than debuff the survivors.
I like it. It makes sense, wouldn't you (In a feral state) get more and more excited the more blood you spilled?
That's how I think of it. Like a happy and excited version of aww ######### here we go again.
AWWW SHIIIT HERE WE GOOOOO AGAIN!!!!
Exactly! Can you imagine Legion running around, grinning under that mask as they cut more and more people?! It's great! That's kinda a good angle to take on the power! I need to think some more, and get some input from @LordGlint since he helped me, and see if we can hammer something out like that!
Add on suggestions:
1. Survivors are revealed by killer instinct for a very short amount of time every x amount of seconds while mending When out of FF. See previous post for explanation.
2. Survivors suffering from deep wound make louder injured noises.
3. Survivors have their aura revealed for x amount of seconds when they stop mending. Unsure if there should be a noise notification.
4. Frank's mix tape rework: Hitting a survivor with FF then hitting another one and going back to hit the first survivor depletes the deep wound bar by a large amount. Maybe doesn't fully deplete the Frenzy bar but would still stun Legion. Would still be hard to down with frenzy but it adds pressure.
5. Increases FF duration tremendously (5 to 8 seconds) but with increased stun duration (.5 seconds to 1 second)
6. Survivors hit with FF suffer from the hindered status effect for a short time.
I like all those! The Hindered the most honestly cause then it would be MUCH easier (but not too easy) to catch up after the stun!
Truly the devs need to look into blitz attacks I hugely am into crime bios etc I think they could really learn alot from looking into it. Legion reminds me of a blitz attack killer they really need to reward him for multiple attacks more he attacks all 4 the stronger Legion gets.
Counter play would simply be to stay apart keep looking out for yourself and being aware that you need to take one for the team to stop his power from getting out of control.
Would fit his lore and chapter totally as for your idea I would love to give it a try but console players don't get any chances to test.
I hope they give some of the Legion players some ptb time their ideas a test at least.
Things need to change for Legion but it's been very quiet on if they plan to.
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Look at the feedback and suggestions subform and see my apost about legion's concept.
This is how i hope the devs fix legion. I ve got everything explained there.
I still think that legion needs a power to down survivor like, if hit 3 surv you have an insta down
Thanks for going through with it, it's nice when a good conversation arises about a serious problem in this game. I haven't sunk an abundance of time into Legion yet, but I would be a lot more inclined to if it was this version. I'm sure it could use tweaks and polish but I think this would put them in a far better and more usable place.
I knew only in Frenzy but what about killer instinct?
I personally don't think that really does anything. You shouldn't tie the power of a killer to unoptimal survivor plays, in this case not splitting up and running away from the TR.
And if you tie a power to survivor actions in general it better be a damn good tradeoff. Like in the case of Plague, you can deny her Corrupt Purge but in return you are one-shot for the rest of the game and your stealth is severly hindered.
So how's the tradeoff looking for this idea? Survivors can prevent your one-shot but in return they have to... split up? So exactly what optimal survivors do anyway? You could say that's pretty much the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals.
Maybe if there was something to force survivors to group up, like removing the option to self-mend. But just on its own this idea doesn't really give Legion much.
Also, my persoanl take on giving FF lethality would be allowing it to down injured survivors who are currently NOT suffering from DW. That would A. give him lethality, B. would improve his stall game as survivors would actually have a huge reason to fully heal up, C. would give him additional options for playing chase, D. should pretty much avoid the whole tunneling issue.
Aww thank you for looking! I agree with you completely. Legion needs help and the Blitz attack style, as you named it, is very fun and LEgion should be rewarded for it!
The issue with that is that is why everyone hated Legion to start with! It put the chase on a timer per say. I don't want that again! I get enough people telling me to off myself!
Killer instinct would be on a radius! Or some of the other lovely Ideas posted here!
I like your idea but I'm not 100% on it! I do like the injuring people and then maybe downing them when they dont have Deep wounds but you'd have to INSTANTLY cancel your FF to take advantage of that! One of the main things Legion has right now is the Information you get from KI! I don't think making you have to eat the stun then pick someone up will be what we need! Good idea other than that though!
Heres my buff idea
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/82999/my-legion-buff#latest
Very good ideas! I liked the "Missing only removes 25% of your power instead of ending" and the Mend action making people not able to do things like Doc's power!
The only one I dont like is the change to fuming mixtape
Oh?
I think putting the Frenzy giving you a buff should be put into the main idea. What would yall want that buff to be?
Edited to add some of the ideas to the first post!
I really hope the Devs see this!
When can I at a Dev for a topic? I really wanna make sure they see all the good ideas here!
Whenever you want I think
Oh Hi! Did you have any more of those good ideas?
@Peanits Hi! Just wanted to be sure one of yall had looked at all the good ideas here! Hope you are well!
Edit: Oh and feel free to tell me what you think of the ideas too!
None at the moment. I've been sick and sleeping a lot.
AWw... I really hope you get to feeling better!
I hope @Peanits saw this thread! It's really positive and civil! Also full of good ideas!
Ooh! Sunny Family Cult mask for Legion sounds interesting too!
With the first one it reminds me of the perk: Beast of Prey's description: "Your lust for a kill is so intense that your connection with the entity is momentarily lost, making you totally unpredictable." It works with what the Frenzy represents. I'm amazed that they didn't do that, to be honest. : P
IKR?! I really hope they see all this and get some good ideas! Alot of these are nice! Can you put your idea in here too?
Exactly the thinking that lead me to the first Idea! Isn't that I wonderful thought pattern?
(Thanks @UlvenDagoth for the inspiration.)
Here's my idea to help with, imo, Legion's two main problems:
* For killers, that’s getting a second hit and downing the survivor.
* For survivors, it's having to mend, which is boring and makes Legion obnoxious to go against.
My solution -- Give Legion a secondary power.
Mob Mentality:
When a survivor is suffering from the Deep Wound status effect, press the secondary power button to remove the survivor's Deep Wound status effect and summon one of the three other Legion members.
(If multiple survivors are suffering from the Deep Wound status effect, the survivor closest to Legion will be selected when the Legion presses the secondary power button.)
The Legion member will appear 2 seconds later, crouched down in the spot you summoned him or her and wait for any survivor to get within range. When a survivor is within range, the Legion member will lunge at the survivor and attempt to hit them.
If a healthy survivor is hit, he or she will be injured; if an injured survivor is hit, he or she will enter the dying state.
Regardless of whether the hit connects, the Legion member will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
Legion can summon all three other members this way. If Legion summons a member while all three members are currently on the map, the first member to be summoned will switch to the new location. Legion cannot summon members within 8 meters of another member.
Survivors within 16 meters of Legion members can detect them by looking in their direction for 3 seconds. During detection, survivors will receive an audio cue. Once fully detected, the Legion members will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
If a survivor sets off a Mob Mentality trap, the Legion receives an audio and visual cue. If survivors fully detect a Legion member, the Legion does not receive an audio and visual cue.
Also, Mob Mentality is a trap so perks, such as Small Game, will work against it.
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Add-on changes to reflect Mob Mentality:
The Legion Pin -- The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 4 seconds.
Frank’s Mixed Tape -- Legion members are invisible to survivors outside of 8 meters.
Fuming Mixed Tape -- Legion can summon members without requiring survivors to be inflicted with the Deep Wound status effect. Considerably decreases the amount of time required for Survivors to complete the Mend action.
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Mob Mentality provides a tool for Legion to counter looping, as well as set ambushes. Survivors paying attention can also detect when the Mob Mentality power has been used as the Deep Wound status effect will immediately disappear. It also speeds up the game for both the survivors and killers if the Legion uses Mob Mentality because Legion can get quicker downs and survivors won’t have to mend.
Plus, I think it would be awesome for Legion to actually play like, you know, a Legion! Lastly, if possible, it would be extremely cool if the teammates you summoned could wear any cosmetics you’ve acquired, making it so you could customize the look of your own Legion.
..... OH MY GODDESS THAT SOUNDS COOL!
That's some good thinking there! You get to keep the rush down with FF but then you get a bit of a Trap play too. I love the idea of cosmetics carrying over AND it keeps the reason to buy them for the Devs!
I love the idea of any power that makes a lunge kinda thing. I've lobbied for Doc to get illusions to lunge to scare survivors... BUT HOLY CRAP! The thought of a survivor losing Deep wounds, getting confused then getting jumped by Joe with a heavy slash from triggering the trap! Woo!
I've always wanted to have them work TOGETHER but I couldn't get the idea to work in my head BUT THIS IS AMAZING! Ahhh! I wish the Devs would comment and see all this! All of the ideas here are so good!
The only question I have is, would Legion have an alert to let them know one of the other members have been "banished"?
EDIT: Added a really good idea to the top by @MongByeolBuddies !
Thank you for it!
I would main this 100%
IKR!?! It's SO GOOD!
Ahhh I so wish a Dev would comment on this so i know they have seen all these lovely Ideas!