BHVR, Let killers abandon once exit gates open PLEASE
Why should I have to sit through survivors intentionally prolonging the game instead of just escaping? It is literally just the same thing as killers bleeding the survivors out except the survivors "bleed" the killer out. Like bro, what are we doing? These abandon changes just seem so one-sided.
The survivors time is SO important that we have to add an abandon system, but god forbid a killer be able to abandon when all 4 survivors are sitting at the exit gate, DELIBERATELY WAITING to bully the killer and make them feel like (bad word) when they have already lost on top of it.
The survivors time is so precious that the devs add the abandon system yet those same survivors sit in endgame and tbag for 2 minutes. because their time is just so valuable. Let me add that this happens so consistently it's comical.
PS: and before anyone says "just push them out", why should I have to deal with not only getting deliberately harassed on an already bad game? Just add the abandon feature it won't affect gameplay in the slighest. Legitimately every survivor dc's once the killer wins anyways, so let the killer dc once the survivors win and just give survivors the escaped points once the killer dc's
Comments
In my experience, yes
i approve of this only if we get a mortal kombat style "babality" animation to go along with it
edit: ok, that was a joke, but all sarcasm aside I DO think this would be perfectly fine (so long as all survivors left in the trial are given all their BP and an escape), but i think this is the exact opposite of what BHVR is aiming for with the game
How about this….
The devs give you end game abandon option, but in exchange they balance escape rates at 50% average.
That's a fair trade.
Currently being teabagged at exit gate is your punishment for losing as the power role.
Also, that last part is half a joke because I never BM the killer during the match nor at the end unless he BMs me during the match and I manage to escape (like shaking your head after down, humping me on ground, hitting me on hook, aggressive tunneling/slugging/proxy camping. Pull any of that garbage on me and I'm celebrating the entire end game collapse 😂
If all survivors are slugged they can abandon immediately to save their time not the killers time. The killer still needs to find and hook every one of them to end the match.
Killer's want a similar function when exit gates are open and THEY feel no reason to continue and don't want to walk cross map to force survivors out.
But killers can't have this because? Because they can walk to both exits to push them out? Because they can wait out a timer? Because they could still catch a survivor?
What if a survivor has an unused unbreakable or other perk that can pick them up? What if a survivor has an offering or perk that allows them to kobe? Are you willing to disable the abandon option for them if even the slightest chance exists to get back up and continue? I expect not. I expecting the response to be, survivors have no chance and should be allowed to abandon.
It's not a false equivalence, give killers the option or stop saying the abandon feature is there to save time.
Killer is the power role. Survivor role is designed to lose most of the time, so devs implemented a rage quit mechanic. If you lose as the power role, you take the walk of shame. It's the karma for bullying survivors in your previous matches with OP mechanics.
I guess so
If you want you can just go around breaking doors and pallets until the timer runs out but in general it might not be bad to let killer players abandon the match at that point.
Before, if the killer slugged all the survivors and the killer decided to not pick up the survivors... what could they meaningfully do? Crawl. And crawl. And more crawling. At a snails pace with (usually) no way to progress, no way to gain points (or anything but pittance worth), just to wait till bleed out, DC with a penalty, or for the killer to be bored waiting for the bleed out.
When the doors are open, what can the killer meaningfully do? They can break things, some can repeatedly gain points with their ability, potentially nab a stupid survivor, or force survivors out. And the survivors have no way to really stop em.
It's to save time in case the killer decided to be an arse and forcefully hold the survivors for the whole timer. Key to this is the forcefully bit.
You don't realize the big IF in your response. If the killer leaves them slugged.
What if the killer doesn't leave them slugged? What if the killer wanted to hook them? Then it becomes a question of saving time. Survivors don't want to wait because the game is over in their minds. The same is true for a killer when the exits are open and survivors are butt dancing. The killer doesn't want to waste time chasing them out the same as survivors don't want to waste time waiting to be hooked.
The killer can’t reliably force the survivors out, if the survivors are purposely hiding in random parts of the map.
I don’t know why people keep saying the same strawman argument, that the survivors would always be conveniently waiting at the exit gates, so the killer can easily force them out of the game.
If the killer wants to hook them they could have/can. The survivors can abandon only when everyone is slugged/hooked. They got to that point where the option to abandon popped up. Then if the survivors all abandoned the killer can already abandon. They got the option to skip out on hooking bots.
This shows a point. It's ALL on the killer. If the killer slugs and doesn't pick up, survivors wait 4ish minutes doing nil. If the killer hooks, the survivors save at best a handful of seconds to a minute. If the killer chased them out the killer saves several seconds. The killer doesn't, then there's a timer.
And before anyone touches anything about BMing, in the past if the killer wanted to they could semi force survivors to be subjected to 4ish minutes of BM (they could DC, with penalty). The killer isn't forced to face BM unless they want to speed things along.
It's not the same thing, so it's treated differently. As the killer, you can open the gate and force EGC. The survivor bleedout timer is longer, and killers can circumvent it by juggling slugged players and prolonging the bleedout. The EGC timer is finite.
Lets talk about the here and now and leave past grievance out of it. Survivor's have the ability to leave if slugged, even if the means of getting back up are pressent.
Killer's just want to leave once the gates are open and not waste time chasing out survivors at the gate or looking for survivors in hiding. What difference does it make at that point to you? The survivors still escape, still receive the BP and victory. Everyone gets to queue up for their next match faster.
If they're hiding then the killer hunts them down and potentially gets a kill out of it. When the doors are open, the likely hood of a survivor hiding anywhere but the hatch or in the open door just to tick off the killer is practically nil. None of us have seen it and we been here since 2017.
Because in this specific scenario people often argue about survivors t-bagging at the gate. Obviously you need survivors in said gate for this to happen.
I don’t get the arguement that the game is not over when the exit is powered when the same can be said for 4 man slug, someone could have Unbreakable for example, but survivors can still just DC. I don’t see any reason why the killer shouldn’t be able to DC as soon as the exit is powered if they know they have lost and there is no endgame perks in play.
Hunts them down how? How is the killer supposed to reliably find survivors that are purposely hiding in random parts of the map? This isn’t a realistic expectation.
There have been many times that I’ve seen survivors hide in random parts of the map, because their goal is to waste the killer’s time.
Why is it so easy to believe that killers would purposely bleed out survivors to waste their time, but it’s not believable that survivors would purposely hide to waste the killer’s time?
Bleedout is finite even if the killer can theoretically extend it. Survivor's have the ability to go into the dying state. Isn't it theoretical they can sit at the exit slugged to extend the time to 4 minutes?
Because killer can doesn't mean killer must. Killer must chase them out or wait 2 minutes. Killer must find them if they are not at the gate. Why? Suck it up you loss so make the rounds? That's not the standard anymore.
Here's the differences:
1: Killer can force survivors out, survivors lack the ability to do anything.
2: The ability to draw a line when the game is over. All survivors downed, hooked, or dead the chances of any escapes at that point is incredibly small. Killers don't have a similar line, kills can still be achieved quite readily after the gates are powered or open.
The only point that the game is truly over is when all remaining survivors are at the open gate, but wherever BHVR draws the line survivors could BM slightly farther away from that. This would lead to BHVR spending time implementing a change that would have no impact because those who want to BM still can.
3: The game doesn't change for the killer. If the game did not tell the killer the survivors had abandoned, they would rarely know the difference, while a player killer vs. bot killer is very different.
4: BHVR has yet to put in bot killers for all the killers (to my understanding), so the match would just end. This would prevent survivors from finishing quests/tomes or getting the extra BP if they care about that like a killer can.
5: The survivors can end up in their situation through no BM. A killer who has one dead, finds a survivor, downs them, sees another, chases and downs them, and then spots the 3rd chases and downs them, is not BMing, its normal, even if this example would be rare (I was just in a situation like this though so its on my mind), gameplay. But the first two downed survivors could be waiting around doing nothing. No one has done anything wrong here, but its the type of pointless thing games should address.
BHVR resisted an abandon option for a long time and only put it in place when the match is truly, absolutely over. Maybe they should rethink and expand on possibilities for both sides, but right now the two scenarios are very, very different.
Unbreakable might be in play maybe in 4% of the matches. Meanwhile, the Killers always has the ability to push Survivors out (or maybe even score an extra kill if any of them eff up). I actually see that scenario more than I see a Survivor with Unbreakable when everyone is slugged. Also in 99% of the cases where a Survivor does have Unbreakable, it doesn't get them very far, so the match is still over.
What you on? I see this all time. Usually in pairs so they can tank a hit if found.
I'm going to go with @Rulebreaker on this.
Hiding, when the doors are open just to waste the killers time, I can't recall having ever seen.
I've seen people hide until they have another survivor get to them so they can make it to the doors safely, I've seen them hide until they know where the killer is, I've seen them hide waiting for other survivors to leave so they can get hatch, I've seen them move around the map stealthily doing totems or chests for BP.
But just hiding in the map to waste the killer's time, when the doors are open, and thus creating the risk of getting killed, I can't recall. Not in my matches or any streamer. I'm sure it has happened somewhere, but it seems strange that some people are saying this is a common occurrence and others have never encountered it.
Well abandoning a match as killer when Survivors haven't escaped counts as them not Escaping even if they it shows they escaped in the results screen.
I discovered this when it first time when I needed a Quest that no one can escape and when I abandoned it gave it to me basically counting as no one escaped
If that mattered the Devs would of put in a time requirement before abandon can pop up. Instead it was made to be available the moment everyone is slugged regardless if means exist to get back up. Even if the killer can do something shouldn't matter. They should have the option available.
And 99% of the cases where the survivor is already at the gate they can get out. That 1% only exists if the killer's power can block the exit or the survivor falls away from the threshold. Even then teammates can tank hits and prevent a pickup by healing.
Your telling us that when the doors are open, survivors are just scooting off to a random corner of the map, just to kill time and annoy the killer, and hide is a common occurrence?
Not in the time we've been playing.
I don't recal ever being slugged out for 4 minutes and the killer refuses to hook us. But I guess it happened enough times to other player for BHVR to add a way out of it.
Not random corners. Near enough to make it out if found.
They same way you hunt for them before the doors were open.
It also seems weird to us how we got two people apparently seeing it often yet not once have the 3 of us or Crogers271 above seen it. It's really not believable because we've seen killers bleeding out people often, yet never seen people purposefully run far away from an escape just to waste both sides time, either from videos or in game. The absolute closest we've ever seen of that is the hatch closed and survivors waiting for the entity to kill them. Not quite the same thing.
While more reasonable than the other one, still not once just to kill time and not quite the "impossible to find" we're lead to believe.
I don't believe the survivor's motive is wasting the killer's time as much as it is to BM them.
Survivor's can be ######### too you know. It's not just killers bleeding out 4 survivors.
The difference comes in points:
We're well aware survivors can be arses. It's just we don't really believe the average survivors are quite dumb enough to run out to a practically unreasonable area to hide and BM the killer. Then staying near the exit is more reasonable, but then their relatively easy to find and either push or punish.
If OP had their way, plays like this wouldnt happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUZR15c655IWARNING
May cause emotional distress due to control button being used in gameplay.
Look at that. Not even 2k points? Really? You're gonna tunnel THAT HARD cmon. Game was 2v1 for 3 gens that I had to do, which Jill held chase for WITH DEADLOCK. Giga teammate.
Huntress camped out and tunneled both of those survivors but the first one didnt even get to play the game. That deserves a bit of control button if you ask me.
Especially with iri hatchet.
If OP had their way plays like this couldnt happen. Someone would be hooked and then theyd just abandon. Or if someone got the unhook theyd just abandon.
Gameplay at this stage MATTERS.
Even if Survivors can be arses, they're far more likely to be punished for it than BMing Killers. Check out these examples. How hard do you think these Killers were laughing?
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
Still bring up what ifs like it matters anymore. If a Pig opens a door why would she then abandon? The ask is for a choice not a manditory end.
That bad standard has already been set. The line has already been drawn. If the means of escape are available and the killer no longer feels the need to proceed, then why not give an option to leave?
I haven't read the last person who brought that up to see how reasonable it was, but the time wasted in these instances are not minor. When you walk up to an empty gate do you think the survivor is hiding or that they're at the other gate? It doesn't become reasonable to think they are hiding until you visit and check both gates. Then you have to waste more time searching the areas around both gates. Maybe you get lucky just for them to exit before you can catch up.
This is usually done with a four out. Where the killer wasn't able to kill anyone and the survivors feels safe, especially a M1 killer with no means to insta down.
But why should the killer have to go through that? Why can't they have the opportunity to just throw up their hands and concede?
They can keep a bot killer in their place who can then chase survivors out. Same thing, right?
The Ifs are the point of the game. For example IF you catch a survivor early then you can potentially snowball. IF the survivors make a good play then they can turn a game around like in Chuckingwong's post. If people have the option to quit then they can repeatedly use it
A line has been drawn, now people are going to keep trying to move it. A view of the bad standard is drawn, but it can keep moving. Where's the stop sign? Over the cliff?
We've said why. You may not like what we said, but we told ya. And unlike the survivor version, it's not even about the possibility of holding people semi hostage.
Assuming both are killers getting the best of BMing survivors. I can't check them right now.
But why does that matter here? Because something could happen doesn't mean it will, right? The standard doesn't take into account probability or a wait and see approach.
The game is at an end and even if avenues exist to prolong it, the opportunity to exit gracefully become available. Give killers that option.
What is being asked is not moving the line but matching it. If the exits open and the killer sees opportunity to get another kill, they are still free to pursue it.
What is the fear of? The game doesn't need to end just like when survivors abandon. A simple AI can stay behind to play tag.
Yes please. The only scenarios this would be used in is scenarios where survivors are already IN the gates. When someones in the dying animation on hook and they linger in the match for the rest of the EGC timer not even doing anything. This situation is literally no different than the killer having 4 people on the floor. Why is there a double standard here?
There's a double standard, because survivors want killers to be their toys they can mess with. Survivors complained about how killers could waste up to 4 minutes of their time, but always defend wasting up to 2 minutes of a killer's time.
Where the killer wasn't able to kill anyone and the survivors feels safe, especially a M1 killer with no means to insta down.But why should the killer have to go through that? Why can't they have the opportunity to just throw up their hands and concede?Are we talking about a purely hypothetical situation where we can just put it into the game, or are we discussing the ramifications BHVR would likely be worried about with implementing such a system?
Situation is completely different than 4 people on the floor. These are not comparable at all. Rest of the forum thread you have to go through illustrates several times why its not the same thing.
But with your idea:
Okay so then whats stopping them from standing JUST outside of the gates and doing the same thing until you walk over?
Personally.
Id just stick myself somewhere in the map and let the 3 others bag hard at the gate if your idea went through. Someones still in the map so you cant abandon, but the other 3 are still in your face with the control button causing emotional distress.
If they add killer bots then that's fine as otherwise I would rarely escape if killer abandon as soon as gate is open.
Both situations waste time for no reason and have nothing more each side can really do. Thats what's not different. There is NO good reason as to why a killer shouldn't be able to just abandon once the gates are open. If you can find somewhat of a reason then feel free to try and give one but there won't be. The ONLY thing I can think of is very slightly less BP.
Okay thats just a false statement, and you dont know whos in the exit gates or not.
Already gave multiple reasons as well as gameplay in this thread. And I just said you dont know whos in the gates or not, theres another reason.
You dont get a give up button just because you dont like the way a match is going. Thats not why the abandon feature was added for slugged survivors.
I support this but a killer abandon should turn them into a bot. This would also mean in "Survivors hiding and holding the game hostage" scenarios, if the killer abandons, the survivors get to waste their own time hiding from a bot until the server shuts down and the killer is already in a different match.
The abandon feature was added because it was most likely over for that side. When gates are opened and you know you had a bad game then I don't see any reasonable argument why the killer should not be able to abandon besides being petty.
Some are bring up hypotheticals as reasons why killers should have to stay until all survivors escape. My argument has been that doesn't matter. What options may or may not exists once the gates are opened, the killer should have the option to concede (abandon).
Yes, some see this as a slippery slope but don't realize we are already sliding.
Thats not why the abandon feature was added.
The abandon feature was added because survivors have lost all basic control over their gameplay. They cant progress generators, cant open a gate, cant save one another, cant pick themselves back up, and are restricted to crawling around waiting for someone but noone can save them.
IThere is no Likely argument here. Its over. Real gameplay has halted.
Incomparably, the exit gates being powered. You still have full control over your character, you dont know where survivors are, you and them can STILL make mistakes.
Real gameplay still exists. You just dont feel like playing it.
You dont get to give up during a match because you feel like something is over.
If you do want to compare something to that logic, okay
Thats the exact same logic that was used by every survivor giving up on hook. "The match is likely over"
You want that back?
So no a 4 slug and the gates being powered are not the same.
They are still the same. If you think that a killer shouldn't be able to abandon once gates are open then all I can say is this is also supporting bullying the killer by just sitting in gates and bagging.