When are we going to address slugging?
This issue has gotten 10x worse this past patch, because for some reason the devs think that killers need moris basekit. Now every match is just killers slugging people out instead of hooking so they can get the mori.
There needs to be a base mechanic to address this. Funnily enough, they were going to do this alongside the original basekit mori, but forum killers complained and complained and so the devs had to roll it back. Typical.
Come on, devs.
Comments
no it's not.
nothing has objectively changed to make it worse except people's self inflicted hysteria about it that's additionally fueled by people promoting this playstyle which is hardly objective.
finisher mori does encourage slugging for 4k more, but that's about it.
Stuff like this is probably why they're keeping in going next on hook, if you had to just be Mori-Bait every game I doubt people would keep playing.
If you want to pretend that WGLF is weaker now than it was before the restrictions were removed, go ahead. I'll think it's silly but you do you.
It's a legitimate question. I'm not trying to make any point.
Make a speed up bleed out button. That is all. If you don't like slugging you should be able to go next
To be fair, survivors just gen rush and if any complaining was done, the survivors did way more of that than the killers did.
You heard it here everyone. Survivors doing their Sole objective is "gen rushing".
sorry to burst your bubble, but it’s a viable strategy that is used to get pressure, same as spread out in gens. It makes heavy pressure. If killer instantly hooks after down they risk stun and either way they gain pressure to win. That one they are waiting for the idiot on hook to die so they can mori. If you hate a viable strategy (unless it’s just for being toxic than I agree) but we can’t add anti slug without is being abused
Im going to say that those saying it has changed nothing are killer mains and don't play survivor, or your doing exactly what's being complained about and rather it not change so u can keep doing it. The slugging is out of control. Killers slug when it's the last two survivors so that they can kill one while the other one is bleeding out to mori them. This just prevents the last guy from getting hatch. 4K
it's wild to read this post from you after having just seen your other post:
When someone complains about SWFs, which are a viable strategy used to get pressure, the tone you take is sympathetic. "Unfortunately" and all that.
When someone complains about slugging, it's condescending - you're not going to tell me you don't understand how dismissive "sorry to burst your bubble" is.
Why the double standard?
Went against a blight that won purely by slugging. Played normally but just slugged instead of hooking.
On killers that can down fast it's a big issue. Matches are unfullfilling when survivors dont get hooked. Throw in perks like third seal and knock out and it becomes unbearable.
Slugging has worsened, and developers must address it. I believe they will eventually take action, and killer players can only blame themselves. Slugging can sometimes be a necessary tactic, and I understand why killers use it when it’s the best strategy. However, I've noticed an increasing number of games where killers refuse to hook anyone and instead bleed survivors out for fun, even when there are five generators remaining. This behavior is a problem that needs to be addressed. I don't want slugging to be completely removed, but it should be penalized in a way that doesn’t impact players who use it when necessary.
the problem in 4k slagging may be in the game against some perks, if the killer goes to hang up the hook, then you have 12% that the survivor will be able to get off the hook and in fact the killer will have to start from the beginning, at this time if no one has the anti-slug perk , then the killer essentially won and there is no point in taking risks
In the end, it all comes down to taking the anti-slug perk, and not ignoring allies lying on the ground (well, seriously, you're on Gideon, this is a small map, with a bunch of pallets, you could easily pick up an ally even if the plague had a knockout)
Unbreakable exists… if the entire team can get slugged well thats just a skill issue and you got outplayed by the killer.
OP is talking about more than just cases where a Blight or Billy run around slugging everyone, which is also an extremely annoying playstyle.
But OP's post and followup comments indicate that they're also talking about slugging for 4k, which has become a more contentious issue for a variety of reasons since the finisher mori was released.
Neither of these, though, are skill issues. Both of them are exploitations of the game mechanics. In that way it's similar to bouncing a ball off someone's knees during the check in basketball to immediately get a steal. Sure, the rules allow it, but nobody wants to play with you if you do it. It's not even competitive behavior, it's just bad sportsmanship.
Doesn't matter what type of slugging they are referring too. The answers are Unbreakable, Boon: Exponential, Plot twist or getting someone else to pick you up. There's nothing being "exploited", if you want to use that argument against legitimate game mechanics then there's a long, long loooooong list of gameplay that falls into that category using that logic.
Someone doesnt want to be slugged? Bring anti-slug and counterplay it rather than demanding the devs solve it for you.
The stats destroy any and all arguments about all the moaning about slugging in any significant way, its all just bias, and the mori hasn't changed anything at all, it's just yet another angle to try and get more basekit buffs for survivors.
It definitely matters what someone is referring to when they say something :)
Slugging for 4k is used to prevent players from having a chance to escape at the endgame when they're supposed to have that opportunity based on the game design. It's pretty rude to do that kind of thing as it bypasses fundamental game mechanics that other players are intended to have.
I'll stick with the basketball analogies here since I play a lot of it. Some things could appear like an exploit but are actually an expression of skill. Fade away jumpers fall into that category, and so do things like zoning as killer.
Some things though, are simply done to prevent the opposing player from playing the game. The example of bouncing a ball off the opponent's knee during check, and intentional fouls fall into this category because they take away the opponent's ability to play the game as intended. Slugging for 4k falls into this category because it denies the opponent any real chance at playing the endgame for hatch as intended. These things are bad sportsmanship and have no place in games outside of professional sports (or esports).
I'd say that if people want to do those things regularly, they don't care much about the experience of other players and a single player game is better for that approach.
Second time some said plot twist that doesn't let you get up unless you down your self.
now and then yes.
in its current state if you’re not getting a 4k you’re going something awfully wrong. The worst killer players around can get an easy 4k with the imbalance at the moment. Only way to stand a chance is to try and gen rush.
I do miss the days when hatch was a feasible alternate escape route if through killed survivors the survivors were no longer able to compete with the basic pressure the killer could put on generators (so long as they did a decent amount of them).
A more dynamic "catch-up mechanic".
Though I don't miss that it was locked behind a key you needed to bring into the Trial with you, or how sudden it was that the game ended when survivors did encounter hatch with the key
the problem with the hatch now, which further supports the killer sided argument is, A) you have to wait 10 seconds to appear, B) it will always spawn where the killer is C) moris lower your chance at it
I agree that hatch race is definitely killer sided somewhat, which I think is fine. Killer has higher movement speed and doesn't need to hide when they see a survivor. So they're much more likely to get to hatch first. You and I probably also agree that having hatch in the game gives the last survivors a reason to keep playing :)
Evidently, people slugging for the 4k want to get that next kill so much that they don't want to deal with a situation where they'll have an advantage. Instead, they're willing to take away any realistic chance of the last survivor standing escaping and force the other to just sit on the ground a while and wait while they do it.
I really don't understand why people are willing to do that to other players in most cases. I guess I can see it if the killer's up against a bully squad.
Maybe you can provide some constructive feedback by saying why there shouldn't be some added measure to prevent things like slugging for 4k :)
OP is speaking more broadly, but I think just saying "bring a perk for it" doesn't really address the issue. I think players shouldn't be forced into situations where hatch is bypassed just because the killer feels entitled to a 4k, especially when hatch is designed to make the game still engaging for the last survivor.
Of course, full team slugging by high mobility killers is also a discussion that needs to be had. But I personally see that much less than slugging for 4k.
I do think OP is right that this kind of behavior has gotten worse since the update. I decided to play a few survivor matches for the first time in a few days today. First match, the killer was hard tunneling, second two matches, proxy camping. Those are different than the slugging being discussed here, but this sort of bm behavior has seriously increased recently.
On a technicality Mori's don't "lower the chance" of hatch, at least in terms of game mechanics. Slugging to prevent hatch has already been a thing.
As far as behavioral trends though yeah, people now have not only a competitive (PvP) reason but a visual/flair/aesthetic reason to do so now too. If they really want to get people to slug as hard as possible for that Mori, slap on like 10K BP for the final Mori too and you've got the "builder"/progression demographic vying for it.
Wait, does it actually prioritize where the Killer is or is that just biased hearsay?
As I mentioned, maybe it would be useful to provide some reasoning behind your thoughts. The game is only over at that point for any survivor that's already out of the game. For anyone left, the game is not over. Having hatch provides some incentive for the last survivor(s) to keep playing. If they don't have that, then it would be a pretty miserable endgame every time since there's so little chance of an escape.
The reason it's not a skill issue is that the killer is almost always dramatically more advantaged in the slug for 4k situation, whereas hatch gives a fair chance. If hatch is removed as a possibility, the game would likely be so unfavorable for the remaining survivors that people might not even want to play the endgame, which is effectively what's being forced into survivors in a slug for 4k scenario.
And yes, it is bad manners to abuse mechanics to force people to waste their time in nearly impossible situations in any game. It's still allowed by the rules, but it makes the experience worse for the people experiencing it. I couldn't imagine playing like that for a game played in person with other people. So it's really not a skill issue, it's actually bm.
Thats why you go down yourself instead of getting downed by the killer. Now they either leave you to get up or they HAVE to pick you up and hook you.
Hatch location is already decided at the start of the match, it has nothing to do with where the killer/survivor are when it appears at the end of a match. There's only a handful of locations on each map that are spawn locations for the hatch so it's not too hard to take a guess and be next to it when it spawns. The hatch doesn't spawn until the final survivor is dead, so if a killer hooks the survivor it isn't until the end of the sacrifice animation which can be plenty of time for the killer to head to where they think the hatch will appear.
Up until about 2 years ago, you used to be able to "feel" the hatch at any point in the game. Some killers could bump into it. It's 100% fixed
I've noticed a bigger up tick in not hooking recently also paired with knockout, in solo this is a nightmare to deal with, I believe the slugging "meta" has been encouraged by a certain person who uploaded a "slugging experiment" video , in this video they had a few different people playing different killers that literally didn't hook, and the win rate was close to 100% (can't remember how many games they played maybe 20 on each killer?) ,people are going to see this and think "I can do that" ,maybe the base-kit Mori has a small chance of some influence but I don't think so.
As to bringing anti slugging perks, unbreakable can only be used once, plot twist could work but if everyone else is slugged you're probably going on a hook ,exponential can be snuffed , no mither doesn't need an explanation. the thing with complete slugging is you can very rarely actually progress the game as a survivor as you spend most of the time trying to get everyone up/healing ,depending on the killer this can be very difficult.
overall not hooking has definitely become more noticeable ,before I might see it once a month maybe less but recently there has been at least 1 match every session (I generally play everyday if not most) . slugging for the 4k hasn't really changed much or if it has I've just become numb to it because it always happened before anyway.
hot take: refusing to hook from the get go should be reportable under refusing to partake in normal gameplay.
also for the record I agree there is a time and place for slugging to create pressure but at 5 gens isnt the 1
Do people seriously get back to back games where killers slug? Enough to complain about it on multiple threads? I play daily for at least 5 hours, and I'll only experience a killer slugging maybe once or twice throughout the day... and they usually slug when the team is good at getting gens done... idk, may be my MMR is low or something cause I rarely get a killer who slugs for the sake of it. Someone clarify so i can understand please.
I think some people are experiencing this more in the context of slugging for 4k, but you raise a good question. With some streamers I watch who are clearly better than me at survivor, I do see full team slugging more often than I experience it.
Also, I recently accidentally full team slugged a group who didn't know to wait for saves. I didn't like that, so I put three of them on hooks and let the last one wiggle off so they could all unhook and reset to play the match :/