Grim Pantry (Backwater Swamp)
We'd like to know what you think about the Grim Pantry map, part of the Backwater Swamp realm. Please leave any feedback you have concerning this map as a comment on this thread. Your feedback can be as brief or detailed as you'd like!
Comments
Survivor sided map the main building having 4 infinite vault windows on the second floor while underneath has 2-3 strong pallets makes it a miserable experience and consumes so much time
The map can be pain or a blessing for both sides depending on the RNG. It likes to spawn very difficult to break 3gen setups (basically the whole shack side) and also still follows over 5 year old spawn logic for gens, totems and the hatch from when it was the larger version.
It also has very bad hitboxes and the middle often is literally empty (at least now there are some trees) loop wise, making it a complete dead zone.
I like the hilly terrain though.
I hope for a rework soon.
Suffers from the same issues as the other swamp map in the sense of the main structures being too strong while there is not much else to use on the map, I would prefer some windows in the middle so it doesn't become one giant dead zone, however especially the storehouse (or whatever we call the big main building) is a bit too strong, the upstairs allows for a lot of delay against m1 killers as you can stay out of chase for a long time and there prevent entity blocker on the window.
The smaller house is basically alright.
The dock can spawn some nasty stuff, and should be looked at, however I don't really know how to fix that without re-designing it completely and making it completely fixed.
So in summon, add windows in the middle, nerf the main structures but add more stuff on the rest of the map to prevent huge dead zones, maybe move the pog logs more to the middle so they are not at the edges of the map, however don't make them inter connect able as this would probably end up in an infinite again...
And maybe rework totem and hatch spawns so it does not spawn at some god forsaken corner on the outskirts of the map. Also why does it seem like there are like 2 totem spawns that are always guaranteed and some that are god knows where behind some log at the edges of the map?
this map is outdated, its unevenness make artist useless. Its objects make nemesis zombies useless cause they stuck on everything. Need rework ASAP
The map itself is balanced, however Main building is generally a bit too strong if the ramps to enter it face the center of the map. The main building shouldn't rotate to better control the strength for survivors. The ground floor of main building is generally hard to navigate and would benefit from easier pathing to exit the building or enter basement. The pier is less problematic than on Pale Rose and generally doesn't chain into many pallets.
The two guaranteed totem spawns make hexes too risky and boons too predictable.
Yeah if never had a tv station spawn next to that gen, i always just give up on that gen kinda annoying
I also feel like with alot of killer you cant collide with stuff, like blight just slide of everything on this map
Main building and shack seem to be the only good loops, too many deadzones
Main building is terrible. 3 ridiculously strong windows upstairs, 4 pallets that are fairly strong. Strong windows downstairs. Even the pier on this one seems stronger than on the pale rose
It's hard for me to say if it's favored or balanced. On one hand, I like it as killer cause I main Artist and sniping main building from the slope, port, hill, side building, or shack is fun. As survivor, the main building is fun to play.
On the other hand, it is such an ugly map and feels horrible to play on. So much random objects and garbage lying around. The bottom floor buildings layouts are horrendous to play on both sides. Having to find a way out as survivor, and trying to find a way in as killer.
I like the idea of the map. But it's way overdue for a visual update. Also, perhaps, tweaking the RNG algorithm or overall tile spawns and bottom floor layout. It's easily one of, if not the most inconsistent map when it comes to spawning fillers and tiles.
There's a lot of cluttered and inconsistent collision. The main building is insanely strong and depending on RNG the other places on the map can also be very unplayable. The RNG variance can be a bit much.
The Pale Rose, and the Backwater Swamp realm need to be graphically updated as it is the final realm that needs it. For actual gameplay the dock in the corner can be a pain for killer as often times it will generate multiple window spawns, in that small area, that can be chained together. It wouldn't be so bad if one of them, especially the one that lets you run up to the dock, was turned into a one time pallet instead. The Main building offers a plethora of mind game potential and creative gameplay for both sides albeit it can frustrating depending on window spawns.
The Grim Pantry is an exercise in finding a survivor, having them run to the god building, and either letting 5 gens go off to get a down, or just letting them escape the chase every time they do.
That building is TERRIBLY balanced. Easy windows to keep distance, perfect distances to keep breaking line of sight and preventing bloodlust, how it hasn't been fixed in years is an absolute mystery.
It's a bad map and there could be better ones, it's just very grey and boring, horrible for most killers and a cake walk if a veteran survivor lands there.
Pantry and Pale Rose suffer from a lot of similar issues, so I'm gonna copy-paste the first part of my thoughts in both threads.
The middles of these maps are way too open and filled with trash tiles, while the edges of the map have all of the playable tiles, including the dreaded pog log (I would consider the pog log to singlehandedly be one of Swamp's larger problems, btw). This means that gens around the edges of the map tend to be pretty safe while gens around the middle of the map tend to be very unsafe. And that encourages the killer to play around boring 3-gens.
Docks can be a little bit strong, but they can feel really weak just as often, and I don't think they're much of an issue. However, I can say that it should not be possible for 2 gens to spawn on top of the same dock. I've seen that happen multiple times and it's horrible.
In addition to this, Swamp is ugly as sin, being one of the only old realms in the game (or maybe the only one? I've lost track, come to think of it) that still has not received a visual overhaul.
Also, the fact that objects and normal tiles can spawn so close to the walls of these maps creates a number of weird issues with stuff like hook generation and finding hatch.
For thoughts that are unique to Grim Pantry:
The main building is downright labyrinthian in its construction, and even after thousands of hours of gameplay, I have still never managed to internalize its layout. It's also just an unreasonably powerful building, with several extremely strong windows and a couple of pretty good pallets, not to mention how much potential it has if you're running Balanced Landing.
The secondary building off to the side is cool, though. I like it a lot.
Maps just huge and waste a lot of time going around the map along with a lot of safe loops to work as survivor
The main building on the map in my mind is perfect. Good loops for both sides and is actively the best spot to play on. The issues arise everywhere else. The middle of the map in front of the pantry is usually empty or devoid of pallets making it a giant dead zone.
with how the map is set up it feels much bigger than it is, I think centering the main building would help a lot. This map also have terrible totem placements since it guarantees 2 totems spots in the middle of the map between some rocks and trees. Overall not a bad map just some fine tuning
I'd say hatch placement is the worst thing about this map, followed closely by the amount of clutter and height of props in the map
Backwater Swamp has the WORST collision and the WORST hook spawns of all game (specialyl white hooks).
This map has a very strong main build, with plenty of windows connected and pallets downstairs.
Also, this map has the possibility of spawning a Jungle Gym with 2 windows at the pier - a very strong tile. I don't think should be in the game anymore.
This map favours no one, i hate it as survivor, i hate it as killer, too many dense bushes and the tiles are wierd and too spread out
This map is way to overwhelming for killer gameplay. I feel like there is always too many pallets behind every wall, and i honestly think greenville will need tweaking in that regard when it releases just due to ptb footage i have watched thanks dbd team!
4 gens (sometimes 5 !!!) are constantly dispatched around the shack area (30% map surface)
1 gen behind the main building in about 20% games on this map
For instance:
The 3 gens in orange are visible from that point of view
Adding another thought:
I want to clarify that I do think the changes in terrain elevation in Swamp are part of what makes the maps stand out and feel incredibly unique; if it stays, I would love to see terrain elevation changes create more meaningful gameplay in the future rework.
This map has wild rng and that’s why I think it’s roughly balanced. It notoriously spawns gens in clusters like around shack or docks and has some weird tile spawns. Regardless, I think a good realm rework would greatly help to modernize this map. The other thing I will say is that hatch and only hatch should be reeled in so it doesn’t spawn against a wall in the corner of the map. Also also, there’s two totem spots that are very visible and almost guaranteed to spawn that I would move. Otherwise, I’m generally not upset getting this map.
Too many windows
Whenever I play this map as killer, I either can't find survivors since they would be stealthing in the tall grass, or I find survivors all the time and they can't do some gens so they could prevent a 3-gen. Same goes as when I play survivor and can't break a 3 gen due to either the size of the map, or the killer is guarding the three gen with their lives. The hatch is also a problem since it can spawn in the most random corners. Even the corner hooks are annoying since if you have a survivor in an unlikely situation, they can wiggle off before you can make it too a hook cause either main blocks you, or the hook there is destroyed due to either Sabo or a survivor dying.
The complete center of the map is a dead zone for free downs. The only Redeeming quality is you got good line of sight in the center so you can shift W to the main building just like Haddonfield. Obviously main quite stupidly strong to point u don't even wanna ever defend the gen up there
This map need REWORK ASAP
Whatever Pale Rose has, Grim Pantry has it worse.
Middle can be balanced, OP for survivors or a complete deadzone.
Two story can be either OP or a mousetrap.
Pier can either rival Garden of Joy for safety or laugh at survivors like a failed Pig box search.
I hope whoever thought double windows are a great idea has been sent on vacation for a long time to think about their sins.
Pog logs should NEVER spawn connected to anything remotely strong, and you can have one in front of one of the already most painful mains in the game and one in the back.
Also, grass as tall as my house and uneven terrain, plus everything can spawn straight into corners.
I can't think of a single saving grace for Pantry.
Both Swamps need a complete rework from the ground up, as it fails at its core purpose, it doesn't fulfill the fantasy of horror in a swamp. The realm just feels like a wet forrest, make the trees dead and twisted making the land feel cursed, add murky water that fills rivers and ponds to define swamps, gameplay wise they could be obstacles you can look over but cant cross, or allow both sides to cross them but the wading through the water is slightly slower and much louder. Also the chapter came with the Hag, so it was a major missed oppotunity to not have a creepy hag hut in the middle of the swamp as a map.
Much like the other swamp, totems and hatch are exceedingly difficult to locate. Main structure is probably the main strength for survivors on this map with little structures providing any relative safety. Pier and other loops should be stronger in comparison whereas main could be weakened to balance the map. It's currently lopsided, similar to how Lampkin Lane has strong houses but weak pallets around them.
The worse of the two variants and definitely my most hated map, both as a survivor and killer. The main building is strong and separated form everything else and this causes two scenarios: survivors are favored if killer decides to loop there, or killer is favored if he decided to never ever go there. There is nothing in between and it makes one side always miserable. I believe that only a ground rework of the map layout can fix that.
My additional complains is too unpredictable pier and the totems/hatch/killer specific objects can spawn on the very edges. I like that they are big and sloped, do not get me wrong, I is just miserable searching for something there/having a long walk just to pick up an EMP.
Yeah i hate this map as Chucky. It's really so hard to see. Hopeully they make grass shorter with rework.
I think what would benefit this map the most is adding breakable walls in main building. One in the middle portion that would allow the killer to cut through that middle and not have to just chase around it (also allowing them to find the entrance more easily), and another on the outside wall close to the window, making that window less safe. There could even be a third breakable wall, next to the upstairs window, leading into the middle portion. The killer could use that to jump onto the staircase and cut off a survivor abusing that window.
Apart from making the pier variations be a little more close in safety levels, another thing both swamp maps could benefit from is having edge map fillers spawn a little more reliably. It already doesn't have any Z-walls or the like, and its edge maps are a pretty large section of the map that survivors will also regularly find themselves at because totems and even gens can spawn there.
Highly disturbing. The cannibalistic aspect idea of it is so disturbing that it still gives me chills to this day to play on it. Dark, muddy, evil. Like the map is swallowing you up.
Most of the time, I tend to deal with novice survivors and this map as killer can be pretty much in my favor, but agaisnt sweaty survivors teams and coordination bully swfs, it leans to be more in favor of the survivors, due to how strong the building can be on the top floor; not so much on the bottom. The log vault (POG log, as some survivors would call it) is very overpowered and needs a nerf of some kind. Hooks spawns can be pretty not so generous at times, and when basement spawn in main building, especially as playing as Trapper or hack; it is usually easy free kill (plus extra free kill, if the Survivors go for the very risky rescue with no means to escape.)
I love the bushes and tall grass, as it favors immersive playstyle for survivors but also killers that have very small height (chucky). The map can be bit big at times, but it is pretty balanced, compared with other larger maps like Red Forrest
Also, I love the OG shack design, as the Swamp maps are the only maps in the game that hasn't been completed overhaul yet with any past map graphic update yet. I wish it stays, if Swamp maps get updated.
I would say that the map favors survivor more than killer most of the time but it can be rng similar to pale rose. The main building is pretty consistent in that it's really strong for survivors specifically the single window in the upper floor. Outside of that, similar to pale rose, the hooks spawns should spawn closer in the inner area.
Its a large map but often doesn't feel that large because there is alot of space on the edges that dont spawn anything. the elevation hurts killers like artist. blight doesn't collide with a lot of trees on this map. There two totems that always spawn in the same spot. Main building is very survivor sided but most of the rest of the map leans to killer. So if killer ignores mainbuild they can win most matchs. Sometimes Dock can spawn a strong set up but only sometimes and sometimes shack can god pallet or "pog log" window spawned connected to it which can be very strong. Most filler pallets are safe with is no good. should always have a higher number of pallets but have them be much weaker so killers are forced to play pallet break sim.
This map can swing survivor or killer sided, depending on how the generators get done. The map relies on large structures as its main loops. The main building is very difficult to loop as killer. However, outside of that, the loops can be unintuitive for newer survivors. Good survivors are going to be able to loop the killer very easily on the structures and probably never get caught.
The map shares the same clutter and spawn issues with the other swamp map. Too much visual clutter, which can make these maps hard to tell apart outside of the main building, and hooks and the hatch can too easily spawn on the edges.
It's survivor sided, end of discussion
It‘s rng sided, end of the discussion!
Ratio, I ended discussion first
after 8 years and over 1000 hours, I still ALWAYS get lost in the bottom of the main building. 🤣
the four sides look too similar, and I can never find the exits.
I think whole rael needs grafic and layout update love fitting layouts in map like in rpd
I don't mind the main building tiles and pallets, they're not strong, but they're okay. But outside of the main building, on the edge of the map, are lots of deadzones. The tall grass in this map, for Killers like Hillbilly, Nurse or Blight, makes it extremely difficult to hit survivors without missing, and very hard to navigate through. The Grim Pantry map is quite miserable to play on, as killer or survivor. The second floor to the main building is easy to find basement, but the first floor is nightmarishly difficult to find basement or stairs anywhere, without getting killed. The atmosphere, and the fog in the map are perfect the way it is right now. Although, the layout and design of the map is absolutely atrocious to play on. Please rework this whole map to make it more balanced, and less boring to play on.
Grim pantry is a fun and somewhat balanced map, leaning more towards survivors. It suffers from a lot of the same issues as Pale Rose, but definitely isn't one of the worst maps out there.
Much like Pale Rose, map rng can feel volatile at times, specifically in the outer edges of the map. Generators can spawn a little too close to one another, creating pretty rough three gen scenarios. Certain loops such as the log loop (the one that spawns on the outer edge with the window) are a little too strong unless you have a chase power and could be shortened down a bit. They can also be very powerful depending on how close it spawns to another structure.
Conversely, the log loop may not spawn at all, and you'll be left with a lot of open space with a generator in a very unsafe area, making it greatly advantageous for the killer at times. These factors make the map feel very oppressive as survivor, but also unfair as killer depending on the rng on the outer edges.
Additionally the pier and main building are a little too survivor sided. They have very strong resources available and could likely be tweaked a little to make it feel a bit more fair for killers without a chase power. The side of the main building facing the edge of the map lacks a lot of loops and generators. To fix it, maybe it could be a little smaller and brought closer to the middle of the map to make it feel less of a deadzone if a survivor is caught there.
Because Grim Pantry uses the same props from Pale Rose, they both suffer from the same issue; weird collision. Specifically the trees and trunks have a thin hitbox for their collision, so killers like blight can struggle to bounce off of them.
Shortening/removing the outer edges could help this map's rng generation (and maybe to compensate, make the map a tiny bit bigger?)
Overall, a good map with a lot of potential, but is really held back by it's volatile nature through rng as well as the structures (primarily pier and main building.)
I only have one complaint about this map, but it's a pretty huge one. Not only is it possible for the main building to be a complete dead zone for hooks, it happens way too frequently and savvy survivors know this and exploit it to drag out games. Even if there is just 1 hook that spawns in that zone, the building is so huge that there's a 50/50 shot you'll make it there in time at best.
Whole rest of the map is fine IMO. I prefer it having the tall grass in the center because it's the only way to visually obscure yourself from the killer while moving to or working those gens. Don't agree with statements that the hillyness doesn't add much to gameplay, it crucially provides a way for survivors to break line of sight from the killer.
Rework this map entirely and also, why sometimes the hatch or totems can spawn on the edges of the may? WHY???