Tipsy
Tipsy
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The addition of the pallets edge map was nice and all but honestly the edges of both maps should of just been removed and made the maps smaller. Their is nearly no gameplay elements on the edges of those maps other than dying corner to waste a lot of time. The maps are huge.
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Okay, so the two maps for this realm cant be compared.
Forgotten ruins is very killer sided if played right and often spawns too many ######### edge map pallets.
Shattered Square on the other hand with this pallet update became much much stronger for survivors to the point where it is near unplayble for a lot of killers. The amount of pallets is insane, then you can add the windows that can spawn in some the destroyed builds. its just too much. There are plenty of safe pallet which is fine to have some but there is too much. Even the unsafe pallets slightly favor survivor making 50/50s more of 70/30s in favor of the survivor. Again as i stated before, their needs to be a nice mix of unsafe(50/50) pallets and safe pallets (bloodlust breakers) Best 50/50 pallets btw are the two pallets that can spawn against the cars right outside the main building on Badham. I hate Badham and imo the 2nd worst map in the game and the most survivor sided map but those pallets i mentioned are two of my favorite in terms of unsafe pallets.
ps. The Game map imo is the worst map in the game for gameplay. Super boring and un-interactive on bothsides. -
Pallets are way too close and abundant. The strength of the pallets didnt really go down with the increased number either. Make asylum map smaller was a W though. Still one of the most survivor sided maps though.
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In regards to the pallet update, MacMillian was the realm that upset me the most. MacMillian was by far the best in terms of gameplay and balance before the update, hense why MacMillian and Autohaven were stables for 1v1s. My only issue before was "god rocks" spawned to often but other than that it was perfect. Now most filler pallets are very unsafe and ever pallet often comes down to winning and losing 50/50s till the killer get Bloodlust and downs you. Just very stale and less skill expressive for both killer and survivor. Please bring back to the way it was but with less god rocks.
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Pallets are too safe for the number of them. Safer pallets are fine but one pallet shouldnt connect to 5 other pallets or maze tiles. Honestly how autohaven was before the pallet changes was near perfect balance and gameplay wise at the high level.
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Pallets are too safe for the high number of them.
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I try to be nice but is the balance team smoking crack? And do you guys not use the talk to the consultants?
Why are we nerfing otr and tenacity among many other perks killer and survivor (except dms)? Keep in mind otr is the only one of two self anti tunnel perk that you can get without paying money.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989572#Comment_3989572
If they couple this reworking the "anti-tunnel" perks like DS and OTR, i think its fine, but the big hitch in the plan will be what the actual numbers are.
Like, are we gonna get 1% haste for 5 seconds? Or are we getting 5% haste for 30 seconds? Are we getting like, your regression is now 125% when kicking a gen, or "Now you knock off 15% off the gen when kicking it (like a basekit pop almost)"
The entire thing is very numbers dependent.
The other potential problem is how abusable it is. So the survivor gets unhooked now i have to go after someone else. What if thast survivor starts bugging me, they start body blocking me. Ok so i hit them. Ok then they keep doing it. Ok so i hit them again. Now i can't pick them up. But also i cant slug them.
I agree the numbers are important but I still dont see that changing much for any of the existing anti tunnel perks. They will pretty much just be adding the term "allusive" to OTR and Babysitter. Maybe extend the no collision with BT.
Even with the numbers you mentioned, it wont be enough. B tier and lower killers should never and i mean never get a 4k if the survivors are somewhat decent, specially if they arent tunneling for trying to get someone out fast. Even what a lot ppl consider A tier killers are pretty harmless. Loop for a little bit, die away from gens and maybe even corner. by the time the killer picks and hooks 2 gens pop before the killer can get to them. Killer leaves hook and 3rd survivor who was stealthing for the unhook, fast unhooks. Repeat, killer loses since their is no risk to fast unhooking and the killer can never pressure multiple players at a time.
With the current map design and balance 4v1 is not sustainable for the killer and the killer will lose unless the get one survivor early as possible or the survivors throw messing around.
It is very abusable as we seen in the past with the old DS unbreakable meta. The survivors will body block and try to force the tunnel.
One thing that doesnt make sense to me about this update is that they recently buffed Babysitter to 15% which was whatever, not a big deal Babysitter with 10% was already super strong and still made it near impossible for most killers to tunnel but they reverted that because they thought it was too strong but now they are introducing this #########?
Also no collision, which i dont hate, makes basement hurt the killer by hooking their unless its trapper or hag.
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@Jigsawbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989572#Comment_3989572
how survivors can "abuse" anything without collision ?pls explane to us ? and big W changes and i hope they wont get reverted after few days as always……
Well we can assume the no collision only last 10-15s considering that is how basekit bt works right now. Ds and Off the record last 60s and 90s…. Wow, mind blown, I can count. Like i said, I play a lot survivor and i find survivor wayyy to easy right now and this will only make it easier. unless its an s tier killer getting tunneled out in pubs before all the gens are popped is a skill issue. i dont want easy games. thats boring as hell. Might as well play boring games like TCM at that point.
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The anti tunnels changes looking mighty scary. I think its too much and way to easy for survivors to abuse it, specially with anti tunnel and slug perks since they can just harass the killer. I say this as someone who plays mostly survivor as of late. This will bring back imo one of the worst survivor metas, the unbreakable ds meta where unhooked survivor is always in the killers face.
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@piplup55 said:
kaneki is much worse
You can have your opinion, as i can have mind but kaneki objectively has a lot more counter play, as well as is a killer that requires skill. if you mindlessly use kaneki's power you wont ever get downs. Personally I prefer going against high tier killers like blight, billy, spirit, nurse, and drac but know a lot ppl hate those killers but they all require skill and get punished heavily for messing up.
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I think buffs to batteries included and boon dark theory are huge mistakes. Those two perks just need complete reworks. Any perks that can give near indefinite haste is bad for the game. look at mft. what keeps those two perks in check over mft was lower values and map rng which can be altered with map offerings to take you to maps which make those two perks wayy to consistent and you just buffed the lowish values. Completely awful buffs for game health imo.
Also complete over kill on the ghoul nerfs. The killer is strong but not that strong. no where near blight, nurse or billy. They were like dark lord strength. let ppl learn how to play against the killers before you start nerfing to the ground.
the nerfing of the kidnap tech i somewhat get but the extra charge is too much. what is the point of a mobility chase power if you cant use it in chase? -
Yeah, I'm with the others here in saying removing stacking haste/hinder is poor idea.
One of the most fun parts of this game is the various niche builds to play with. This change will dramatically lower the number of builds on both sides on top making many perks borderline useless.
Keep in mind that many ppl who use these niche builds don't go in the match expecting to win because they are simply not as good as stacking slowdown or anti tunnel and exhaustion perks. Lowering the amount of unquie builds you see in the fog adding to the stale feeling to long play.
Please do not go through with this change.
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Okay, I read some of the post on this thread and it's clear a lot people don't know what they are talking about.
Lets start with the hitbox misunderstanding, Oni's dash attack functions nearly the same as blights dash attack when it comes to hitboxs. For the first frame or two of the attack the hitbox starts at a wide cone close to the killers model and as the attack continues forward, that cone narrows.. lot. That is why if you see a Oni 180 flick while touching a survivor it will always hit no matter where the club lands. Which in turns makes corning against a Oni who can flick a dumb idea. The draw back to that though if an Oni is touching a wall at all when they start their flick, it will always bump, canceling the attack. So you know that the hitbox narrows as the attack continue, leading me to my next topic counter play.
For the people who think the counter play to Oni is getting around a corner and cornering up if the Oni can't flick. You're wrong. A good Oni doesn't need to flick. They canceled their dash at the corner and insta down with their m1 before the survivor can get anywhere, shocking I know, people can have brains.
So if corning isn't the play? What is? Be random, if you think the Oni will cancel dash, hold w, if you think the Oni will 180 flick, flare out. If you have some distance and you flare the Oni will mostly miss, because the hitbox narrows and the Oni will have guessed wrong on your location. It's the same with blight, if you think they will flick around a corner, flare out and they will miss.
People going on about unfair because consoles can't do it, I get it but that's a silly argument. Specially since BHVR announced they are adding mouse and keyboard support to consoles by the end of the year.
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I dont care about all the crap listed by op. None of that would help with anything anyways.
But is very obvious to me that bots arent seeming to help the ques. I dont know what the set time for matchmaking to be opened wider for the killer but its still way too long.I have been timing my que times. Almost ever time I got a lobby or was forced to re-que (happened 2 out of 5 ques) it took almost exactly 00:14:00 minutes. Every match had 2 bots.
The ques are just as long for killer but we have to play with bots, which isnt fun for either side.
56 minutes of ques for 3 matches is not acceptable.
Its hard to believe there is that many ppl queing for killer over survivor. in a ideal world it would be 4 survivors for every 1 killer.I request for BHVR to release the data on how many ppl are quing for what role within a 30 minute time frame of their highest traffic for a day for one region. Just so we can be sure we are not getting gaslight by the devs like we have been a lot lately with their "bug fixs" saying they fixed things but are still very much in the game.
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Its been the same since version 1. Very favored for survivors. With the amount of crazy safe pallet setups, all of them connecting and the fact survivors require less gen time compared to 4v1 (5gens/4survivors vs 8gens/8survivors), its kind of a no brainier which side is favored to with if both sides are of equal skill. Then you add all the crazy class ######### for survivors.
Butttttttt sbmm isnt a thing in 2v8 so what side if favored or not does not matter at all. -
@Malkhrim said:
My problem with that idea is that Smoke Bombs are pretty much free blinds, with no need for timing or aiming at the killers face, and with no way for the killer to avoid it. Plus, they also seem to muffle sounds, which makes them even harder to counter. If anything close to that ever became permanent, it would have to be weaker in comparison to the event version. The current one is fine and balanced only because the killers also get crazy strong tools in the same event.
I get what you are saying but if it become permanent, then there would be obviously requirements to even get one. If something you bring then, only one person survivor which isn't bad whatsoever. Or like flash bang requires survivors spending time doing certain actions. So there would never be to many where it's harmful in away.
I just played several matches on killer and they are definitely not strong than flash bangs. Easier to use but the distance gained by survivors if they do juke me with it, its always minimal. Sprint burst, lithe, or any exhaust gives more distance and Chem trap as well and those have 20s to 40s cooldowns. Even champion if light gives more distance.
It's mainy just an anti zoning tool and a oh #########. This might help if played right.
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Botany self care takes 35.5s to heal yourself. Another survivor healing you takes 16s plus the potential time to meet up meaning a minimum of 32s of potential time on gens. With simple math, you can see gen efficiency is roughly the same but with the added benefit of you healing others faster and not needing others to heal you. While strength in shadows (24s) is nice, a smart killer will call that out, killing you in basement and in terms of gen efficiency it's not great if you have to run across the map just to heal.
Best perk for healing yourself is resurgence. With a medkit with suture addons, you can heal yourself in 1s if get a great skill check. So great even if the killer tries to tunnel since you can heal mid chase. Suture addons make you get skill checks btw. And downside is you have to be hooked and countered by hemorrhage.
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I understand why Skull Merchant and maybeee Twins but the rest of the killers are in a good spot. Yes Billy is S tier but only very very small amount of ppl can push Billy to that level.
Also a lot of the perks listed were recently changed and I feel are in good spots for their niche such as Weaving Spiders, Crowd Control, and Shadowborne.
Bloodrush is scary perk to adjust, can very easily become over powered. -
All they did was making them brighter, which is good for ppl who have hard time seeing them. Which one of the main reason ppl use filters. Personally I cant see scratch marks at all on Ormand. If you think this effects stealth, it doesnt.
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Small map. allows for easy gen control and 3 gens. Mainbuild is very strong for survivors but rest of map can be on the weaker side, making it theres no point for the killer to chase to main most cases. Makes for let interesting gameplay loop of survivors always running to main soon as a chase starts.
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Love this map for its balance. It nerfs top tier killers while not hindering lower tier killers at all. Lots of unsafe pallets and unique structures adds for interesting gameplay. The biggest and i mean biggest issue with this map is vaultable window connected to the glass window. That window if shift teched correctly is a literal infinite. The upstairs gen is very unsafe to try to do since you cant see the killer coming, not including there isnt anything safe loop near it. I think if you want a out of the way unsafe gen, that is fine but it should make so the survivors can react with out comms a little bit easier to the killer approaching.
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This map feels large for survivors but small for killers. Very limited pallets making for easy deadzone creation. Gens are too much of pain to find on this map.
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A little on the large side other than that I love it. Best map in my opinion. I love the high pallet count but they mostly being unsafe. I love the main building. It is balanced. Maze tiles are good and are all good distance from each other. I will say one issue with the maze tiles is the survivors can see the killer's red stain through them pretty easily. Love this map as both survivor and killer, please dont change it.
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Large and lots of god pallets. God pallets make for boring gameplay loop. Other big issue is how the killer can stand at the bottom of the main stair sets and pretty much complete divided the map lot letting anyone pass by making for easy camps. Strong 3 gen with gens in the main room and on west side. West side can become a very unsafe quickly making the 3 gen even stronger.
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Large and lots of god pallets. God pallets make for boring gameplay loop. This map is also a race against time for the survivors in terms of resources. There are many pallets but as many as say The Game so once those pallets are gone, there is little to much of any safety for survivors. So if survivors split and slam gens its an easy win for them but if they dont the killer can drag the match out long enough to where survivors dont have pallets left. Other big issue is how the killer can stand at the bottom of the main stair sets and pretty much complete divided the map lot letting anyone pass by making for easy camps.
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The general balance feels fine but the odd shaped walls are the worst and make it very hard for some killers to use their powers.
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Main building is awful. The window and pallet that always spawn at MB are way too safe and strong. The window also goes straight in to a maze tile too. On top of that there can sometimes spawn window at the front of MB and one on the back left of MB. With all 3 windows together if shift teched correctly, it can be made in to a literal infinite. The other big issue is the bushes. Survivors can for some reason hug them way tighter than killers, making a bush with no pallet or window a huge time sink. On top of that any killers whose power can collide in to stuff (chainsaw killers, Wesker, huntress, blight, etc) get hard countered by these bushes.
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The red. The red is the worst. It needs to go. It doesnt make it feel like a medieval battlefield. So hard on the eyes and so hard to see anything since alot of things like auras, scratch marks, and red stains are all red. General balance wise, its okay. no real issue but I liked it when you had a lot of unsafe pallets and little safe ones. Promotes skilled gameplay.
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Very large. the weird shape of the walls makes it hard to use some killer powers making for less smooth gameplay and pointlessly hindering some killers. The gates seem to always spawn in the same spots and are almost impossible to defend both. Other than the size the general balance feels good.
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I like this map very much. Its small but very condensed so things connect well. Due to its size and shape I do feel this map leans a little towards being killer sided. its not to hard to create deadzones as killer and control 3 or 4 gens. also the two farthest points of the map a lot the times spawn very little to no safety for survivors but almost always have a gen.
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Dont know what to say about this map. It feels solid on both sides.
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Love this map. The choke point adds interesting gameplay interactions between the killer and survivors. pushing the survivors to work together to divided map. Choke point is for the most part safe due to it being filled with maze tiles (good thing). Main is good but not too good. Large but the killer can keep control due to its shape.
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Gens spawn close together making 3 gens common. Map feels large. Lots of connected filler pallets. most of which are safe. Main sometimes has a very strong window where basic m1 killer cant mind game or catch up on if the survivor is decent.
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Size is alright. Lot of connecting safe pallets. Main building is very strong since you guys opened up that door that use be a breakable wall by the gen. The pallet is also very safe with the strong window right next to it and the fact that the survivors are see over the shelf with the pallet clearly but the killers can not. Also when the gen in main gets completed that strong window becomes a god window.
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Talking about Groaning 1. Main building is strong with very strong window and other window requires the killer to break a wall to play around. Shack spawns with two maze tiles connected to it making it a safe place to take chase. Biggest problem with the map is the two pockets, one with double maze tiles and the other also has two maze tiles but not connected. problem with those pockets is they are safe areas for the survivors to take chase and if the killer is to commit, the killers will be isolating themselves away the rest of the map.
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Ironworks 1 at least is decent. The shack can spawn a strong pallets right outside it along with two strong maze tiles so that can make it very hard area for the killer to chase at. Going past those maze tiles is the water tower or logs tile and pass that can spawn a really weak area in that corner of the map for survivors. I would propose taking the closest maze tile to shack and moving it to that corner i just mentioned.
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Its largish but due to its shape having the choke point, it very manageable for the killer. Main and the middle is strong for survivors but if the killer plays right defending one side of the map its pretty balanced and well designed. I like this map as both sides. no complaints. This is for suffo 1 at least.
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Coal tower 1 is almost a perfect map in terms of balance and size.
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Shelter woods one and two are both about the same in terms of strength for either side. Both large. Biggest issue the large deadzones it can spawn or areas with only one pallet. It does spawn a lot of strong filler pallets. The filler rock pallets with long and short side. the long side having a tree at each end is considered a god filler. If played right by the survivor the only way to get a hit on it without power is blood lust 3. So when the map can spawn a lot of those. it can become a little silly.
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@drwilburdaffodil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668535#Comment_3668535
It is one of the smaller maps in the game.
Alright. I will rephrase. It's long. Say you don't have any long range regression or slowdown perks like grim and pain res and you take chase at the top of map where carnival is and the survivor is half way descent at chase making sure to go down lets say top right corner. The time it will take for one to pick up, hook and make it to bottom side the killer will lose at least two gens bottom side unless they are high mobility killer. Thus encouraging a proxy camping and 3 gen play style since the map is so long and narrow, something I know a lot pub survivors want to get away from.
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Its a large map but often doesn't feel that large because there is alot of space on the edges that dont spawn anything. the elevation hurts killers like artist. blight doesn't collide with a lot of trees on this map. There two totems that always spawn in the same spot. Main building is very survivor sided but most of the rest of the map leans to killer. So if killer ignores mainbuild they can win most matchs. Sometimes Dock can spawn a strong set up but only sometimes and sometimes shack can god pallet or "pog log" window spawned connected to it which can be very strong. Most filler pallets are safe with is no good. should always have a higher number of pallets but have them be much weaker so killers are forced to play pallet break sim.
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These maps can be big and the smaller ones still are bad because its the same strength of stuff but closer together. All 3 builds are safe with god pallets and strong windows. Each building including shack have a lot of connecting pallets all safe pallets except the 3 that connect to the school. Long fences are really rough. Bushes hurt killers that use collision like blight, billy, bubba, ghostface.
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Large map and has two strong spots on the map for survivors. First main building can multiple safe or god windows. one variation can spawn a literal infinite if the survivors know how to shift tech to lose chase. Shack is connected to maze tile and which often a long wall or a short wall gym making it almost never worth it to chase there as killer. most pallets on map are safe.
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This a strange map. Honest i think most killers dont know how to play it either. I like a open line of sights. it adds character to the map and sets its apart from the other maps with is good imo. Usually not a high pallet count and pallets vary in strength. sometimes mostly weak, sometimes most safe. Can spawn several large deadzones at both ends of the street and the play ground. I usually win most games as killer on this map. The only thing I can see where this map may heavily favor survivors is when the three two story house spawn all on the same side of the street. Those 3 house together can make a literal infinite where m1 killers like legion cant deal with even but a lot of killers have ways to deal with that set up.
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Where to begin. Main build has a god window and a safe window even with the door broken. It always has two god pallets and usually a 3rd god pallet. Map is very large. There are two pockets in the map which both hold two maze tiles connected and both can be connected to shack. The killer has no reason to ever chase in those pockets because it hurts them a lot. the strength of them for survivors is too high and it isolates the killer from the rest of the map.
Now on to my single complain from the surivor side. There almost always spawns a gen at the opposite side of map from shack. that gen is usually always in a deadzone or has one weak pallet near by.
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Map is huge. the changes in elevation hurts killers like artist. can spawn large dead zones. There is a verision of the docks that can very op. Its a mix of and long wall and short wall gym with a safe pallet, a god pallet and an safe window. Shack window connecting to "pog log" window can be very strong too.
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Map is good. Same as what i said before I feel increasing pallets and lowering their strength is always good much like the new map in the PTB
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Honestly think this map is in a good spot. increase pallet count and lower pallet strength is what i would do.
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Large but not unbearably so. can spawn large deadzones near cow-tree/harvester. Super dense tiles on both sides of the house. Sometimes god pallets spawning 8 meters from strong jungle gyms with windows. Corn sucks.