dbd is at it's downfall || tunneling & matchmaking
Alltough they add new content regularly and the new chapter looks amazing, it didn't even took 5 matches for it to feel stale and boring again.
Why is that you may ask? Well let's look at the current situation. A new player join's dbd he get's maybe 5 starter games before mmr screws him over and sells him out to a killer with more experience then the whole team has. They get stomped into the ground and made fun of in the endgame chat.
I've seen it, I've even tested it with a new account. It's just so disgusting.
If that was your first impression of the game when you started you probably would've put it aside too. Eventually after 2 weeks you even forget about the game alltogether and never play it again. That's what happened to a lot of my friends when I tried to bring them into dbd. It wasn't even my presence that made the match mmr bad for new players. They played on their own more then with me but the experience was the same.
So dbd can attract new players but can't really keep them. This means a constant decrease of players over time.
Now onto the current situation for veteran players. I don't really know how we ended up here but currently I blame streamers partially for it. Popular players like Otz and others made a whole marketing strategy to sell tunneling as a strategy to the average person. Tunneling is normal in competitive dbd but has never been as present in normal dbd as it is today. It was so normalized that people don't even feel bad about it anymore when they made bad decisions the whole match and then "won back the game" by tunneling and camping. That is not what the entity wants according to lore.
People are proud of themself when they won a match against solo-q survivors by tunneling and camping. When has it come this far. It's just sad
So currently active players are beyond annoyed as they have to face killers tunneling at 5 gen's almost every game now. It's tiring, boring and draining. All killer feels the same because they are played the same way with almost similar builds.
So players take a break for a weak, come back to find out it's still the same, go on another break for a month, nothing changes, they are gone for years or even for good.
This game will have a rapid end if the matchmaking is not improved and tunneling is put to an end.
Comments
Been on a downfall for 7 years and still doing fine so no worries.
i guarantee you that either you are not a actual killer main or you are just in really low mmr. Every killer main thats decent at the game knows that 12 hook games are out of the question when your going against decent survivors.
Feels like these posts are everywhere, though since it's Tunneling I get it.The current fast paced nature of matches tend to mean that Killers need to move to fast to establish pressure, which if they're on the backfoot, usually means that Nea with two hooks is about meet the Entity again.
I wish there was a basekit reward all killers got by spreading hooks, it'd alleviate the issue somewhat.
Survivors not having a good catch-all anti tunnel perk is also one of the reasons the strat is so prevalent.
I do hope the devs put some system in place to make it more bearable, but this is also a problem that's been part of DBD since the beginning, so I don't consider it the end of the world by any means without changes.
There is nothing wrong in tunneling if you make mistake and survivors get upper hand. It's often only way left to try get some kills maybe win but that requires survivors to do mistakes and then killer also did great comeback. What is not balanced is tunneling at 5 gens that I can agree and it takes all the fun away from the game.
gut feeling telling me it's gonna be strong. then you going to have a whole new issue of killers complaining that they can't get even 1 kill because the preson who got focus was running DS. Endless cycle
I don't think they got any plans for solo q period. The rates seem to be the main focus not the happiness.
I'm pretty sure the new player experience ain't fun either for new killers being paired against experienced survivors that will make the game as stressful as possible and still BM them after clearly seeing it's a new player. So its bad for both sides.
Other than that, I agree. I stopped playing survivor for now because it's always the same stuff and tunneling right from the start is getting old, even more at my MMR where i don't see gens poping like crazy.
Besides, we really need more new game modes (permanent pls) because as u say, even if there are new characters/maps, there is so much you can do till it gets repetitive again. I wouldnt mind sacrificing a chapter per year in favor of new modes/big qol improvements.
I don't really get what yours and @xltechno point is here.
You are talking about a japanese tournament. Most of the players around the world don't participate in tournaments nor watch them and are not even interested in them.
If you haven't noticed tunneling is normal in every tournament. (At least every one I've seen). Because of 4 swf on coms with builds in synergie and predefined roles playing on clock system, it is widely accept to tunnel in the tournament match.
We are talking about the normal dbd experience which means people mostly in solo-q, a lot of them on console and no possibilty to coordinate them in the match.
The base scenarios cannot be compared and most of the people play a game to have fun. A killer tunneling a solo-q team at 5 gens ruins the fun for most survivors instantly. People can handle to loose a game. But they wan't a fair chance. People in solo-q rarely are able to prevent the tunneling from comming through thus the fair chance is gone and the fun ruined.
I may repeat myself here but the average people don't want to play in tournament conditions hence dislike tunneling.
Why I said I know in some situations u can still get DS. Happened to me before which shocked me cause I wasn't tunneling. But if I remember right there were fewer ppl to chase (due to kills) so that's why. And DS didn't save that Kate cause I caught up to her pretty quickly.
So even if it's not 10 secs, it definitely needs to be longer than a measly 3, cause it doesn't help much at all.
This is getting beyond annoying. Survivors have been the stronger side of DBD for a minimum of 90% of its life span. Then the devs FINALLY get the killrates to the 60/40 place that they've always should have been at since day 1, and all the sudden, we get flooded with posts about solo que is soooooo hard and killers are simply too strong and easy. Like, seriously???
As for solo que being "weak", I'd like to point out how many buffs solo que got in the past 2 years. Anti face camp, basekit BT, the new gen regression rework to prevent three gens, nerfs to gen regression perks across the board, a way for all survivors to see when another survivor is in chase, showing all survivors what specific action another survivor is doing at all times, STBFL was nerfed, mangled is being gutted in the next update, solo que has gotten a lot of help over the years. The one other thing they tried was basekit unbreakable, but that PTB it was tried in showed why that should never be attempted again.
I gotta ask, what more do you want??? Basekit 5 second DS? Basekit Kindred? When will it be enough?
As for tunneling, its not going ANYWHERE until a 12 hook game becomes viable in day-to-to DBD, and the only way for thast to be a possibility is to increase gen times even more. And I have a gut feeling survivors would hate that.
It doesn't remove all risk and the killer could still choose to chase that person. It just slows down the tunneling.
And you say the killer should still have a choice (to tunnel) but what about the survivors chance? Tunneling very often removes the chance of the survivor getting away. Especially when they're new. It's not just risky, it's a guaranteed kill. And surviving or killing should never be guaranteed. It should be 50/50.
While tunneling and mmr are some of the core problems, the same people that want this fixed also don’t want the solution to this, which is balancing the game around good players.
Tunneling will always exist while the game is balanced around bad players since it’s forced in order to win once it’s actually good vs good. We also can’t have hypothetical “perfect” matchmaking because the game isn’t balanced for it. The poor matchmaking is there to cover up the balance problems.
I explained that many survivors do this even in normal play, the viewers too. Most of the viewers are amateurs.
Why does this happen? The participants in the tournament are, of course, experts. It is natural that the general public admires them. They model themselves on the masters and try to imitate them.
Why? There are people who try to play hero and if they fail, they get angry and commit suicide, and there are people who don't give up even when the odds are against them and sometimes turn things around. Because it's obvious which one looks better. Because I'd rather be a real hero than a false one.
Having DS proc after both hooks and being buffed to a longer stun (which is what I was talking about) removes a lot of risk and not just “allows the survivor to play a little longer”.
The survivor has plenty of chances in the game. Built in BT, teammates to body block and try to get aggro, sabotage and flashlight blinding by teammates, and perks like OTR and DS(despite what people say here, I’ve seen plenty of good survivors waste the killers time with it).
New players need the devs to make a proper tutorial of the ins and outs of the game for both roles. They also need to limit their matchmaking to only pair them up with players with similar play time. I’d go so far and say they should consider restricting some killer perks or only letting new killers play with three perks when they have less than 30-50 hours just because killers have an inherently easier time when they start of new against new survivors. But their choice in target shouldn’t be forced upon them nor should the game punish them. The survivors need to do that on their own.
Tell me you main survivor without telling me you main survivor
All of your complaints were survivor focused why no love for the killer side they have just as much ######### as survivors get but that would require the survivor side to drop they're bias and look at the game from a mechanical and logical angle which will never happen same goes for the killer mains the people who main one side are the bane of this game you people feel like your owed wins or something thus we have this competitive tryhard attitude in every single match the amount of times I've been slugged and left for a 4k recently has never been higher and the amount of toxic teabagging exit gate clicking survivors has reached its peak too the community is full of entitled toxic ######### stains on both sides complaining about the other how about you all just leave and maybe we can have fun matches again till then shits gonna stay this way so strap in for the ride you all created 😂
this tough is a cultural thing what you're talking about has the same issue with a game called yu-gi-oh the west outside of it's hardcore fanbase don't like the state of the game in mordern yu-gi-oh a turn can take no jokes around 5 to 10 mins a turn the average turn per game is around 4 turns where you have to play around a ton of effects and negates ppl that are involve into yu-gi-oh are all like the game is fine it's a skill issue ect but in reality the game is suffering konami is losing player year over year including revenue where it's to the point that there only make small margin in profit and the big wigs at konami had to acknowledge that it's a problem they can't keep new player because of the issue and only the hardcore is left and there still bleeding players
in Japan if you complain about the state of the game or quit because a turn can take a long time knowing you're losing its heavily frowned upon while in the west it's completely different
this right there should be a good indicator about dbd in general that they should do something about bad mechanic because you'll never get that reaction in Japan because of there culture
Even so, I would like to point out that casual players are aware that they are responsible when things don't go well.
Probably because they're bad at the game. That's the reasoning.
They're literally not even playing the same game though.
I wasn't even talking about a tournament experience. While I don't really want to go into cultural perspectives much here, the Japanese players react more positively even when they lose games.
Rather than just complain about tunneling and camping nonstop, some Japanese players also acknowledge their mistakes. "I missed that DeadHard", "I ran to the wrong side". Rather than constantly being fixated on the tunneling and camping, I think it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge and reflect that the Survivor player also misplayed and the Killer decided to capitalize on that misplay.
I always see people complain about tunneling or camping at 4-5 gens and no one seems to acknowledge that the survivor who went down before one gen was done misplayed heavily. There's a huge difference between going down at first chase at 0 gens done and 3 gens done. Sure Solo Queue is a mixed bag, but that doesn't mean that I as a player can't improve my looping skills and game awareness even if I don't escape the match. Constantly expecting nerfs on the other side without even attempting to get better on the side I play on is a bad attitude to have, so I resonate more with the players who admit their shortcomings and try to improve. This has nothing to do with tourneys.
I have gotten hard tunneled out from time to time in Solo Queue but I know I could have pathed/played much better because I'm not a good Survivor. I have gotten god looping solo queue team mates and potatoes crouching next to a locker but that's part and parcel of the game.
Nah.
You can 12-hook via a soft tunnel fairly consistently.
12-hooking without tunneling is more difficult, but still certainly possible
How about the issue survivors have with OTR? The killer can hit the survivor soon after the unhook removing the OTR protection.
If tunneling was that big of a problem survivors would've run OTR and DS every game
They don't, so there's more important things than tunneling for them
They don't run them because both perks fail horribly at actually stopping tunneling. Yeah a great survivor can make use of DS but it just not feasible for most. Background player & ftp/buckle up do better job at stopping tunneling.
It could be my region etc but honestly I don't see that much tunnelling, sure there is some but the vast majority of matches are actually civil. I used to blow up the problem in my own mind but when I started to actually pay attention I realised it wasn't as bad as I was making it out to be.
I still despise tunnelling in public matches though, don't get me wrong.
Matchmaking is all over the place but maybe this is a controversial take - I don't actually mind. I am pretty much exclusively a solo queue player and I do so because I love the chaos. I cant stand completely coordinated and efficient play every time, it's boring and predictable and I far prefer the random chaos that comes from solo queue and quite frankly, just plain poor matchmaking
It allows the killer a local advantage once the survivor is hooked. In order to overcome this, the help of the survivors around all is essential. Survivors need to understand that even though playstyles are free, individualism is not at the core of the game system.
If the DS skill check is the cause of failure, it doesn't matter whether every are a beginner or not. If the chase after getting out is a problem, it's a skill issue.
If you can't finish tunneling someone after a 5 second ds stun it's a skill issue
But survivors are not able overcome tunneling?
So long as everyone sticks to individualism.
To reiterate what I have said several times, this game may feel like a survival game for survivors, but the core of the game system is tower defense for the killer, and the survivor would rather limit the killer. Sirvivors an attacker.
Each Survivor is weak, and their performance is about 1/2 that of the Killer. Even so, they can't be defeated by killers because they use their superiority in numbers to attack from multiple angles. To subvert it, the killer hooks survivors, sometimes camps and tunnels, and sometimes patrols near Gen. Survivors counter it and regain advantage. That's where the bargaining and tactics comes into play.
If every are selfish and give up your numerical advantage and bungee jump from an advantageous position, you will naturally lose. Play style is free, but cooperation is a prerequisite. If you don't understand this, every will never be able to play this game well.
Those perks won't give you a free escape if the killer tunnels you, but they work - they make the killer waste more time tunneling you and give your team more time to crank gens. But survivors don't like teamplay when they aren't in SWF, so here we are.
In the same way everyone on the forum complains that solo q survivor lacks information, but nobody equips Kindred when playing a solo q survivor.
nor should they give u a free excape! but you should get a decent amount of distance which DS does not provide especially vs high mobility killers. Off the record can be knock off immediately so this perk isn't worth debating to me. "they make the killer waste more time tunneling you and give your team more time to crank gens" we gotta stop saying cranking is the counter to everything. Every strat have it own counterplay and gen rushing can get u kill in many scenarios. Gen rushing do not beat tunneling in solo q maybe in swf when u actually can call on perfect body blocks.
hit and run stealth killers - You don't crank vs a hit and run wraith. u heal and slowly pick off the gens as he slowly burn through survivors resources. Attempting to crank over healing can lead to multiple downs and snowball.
camping/proxy camper- If the killer camping everything than cranking and trading could work here.
3 genning- etc ....u get the point
cranking gens verse a tunneling killer usally end up in a 3v1 scenario almost every time. The question is how many gens will be left 2,3? The counter to tunneling in solo q is to actually be a good looper. that it! At most these Anti tunnel perks give u chance to play one more loop. At worse they do absolutely nothing.
If we are speaking about hit and run, 3-gen or camping, there is no subject to discuss because the tunneling isn't happening - the actual tunneling, not "I didn't heal after the unhooking and the killer has found me first".
Also, who was even speaking about gen rush? It's all about how long you can hold the chase when you are tunneled. If you can get help from your teammates those perks are even stronger, because you get more opportunities to get the help.
Like, you can't not mention cranking gens when speaking about survivor, there's just two ways for survivors to escape, crank all gens or have 3 people dead lol. Everything survivor does comes down to gen time efficiency.
I will not be surprised if basekit DS comes to the game in June with the perk having a different effect.
you watch, lol.
I agree that I left the kille out of this because usually new killers don't tunnel and new survivors don't tbag. It is true that the toxicity in dbd is at it's peak. I actually play more killer then surivors because I'm tired of getting a tunnel killer every match.
They way you describe it may work with swf but 4 individual survivors do not have to possibility to coordinate map wide. They can't communicate so they cannot "counter" anything. The killer is the surpreme force of the game and each match contains 2 very different power dynamics. The killer and the survivors. While it's true that survivors have to play as a team to win against the killer they do lack the ability to do that.
Aside from the hud info nobody know about the whereabout of the other survivors, their perks, or what perks you spotted on the killer. So because of that playing as a team in solo-q is quite a lot harder.
No swf required. Experienced survivors can practice soloQ. Of course there are matches that don't go well, but I've also experienced many matches that didn't.
Most players who have progressed in this game should have experienced it. If you say that it can't happen or that the probability is too low, then your environment and mine are too different. I don't want to believe it.
If the devs favor one side, who is going to play killer or survivor? None. This game will die quicker than Mayflies.
I doubt that there are a lot of solo-q matches where you get away with a 5 gen tunneling killer.
Most of the time at least one teammate does not realize the killer is camping around and will get hit if not even downed so now we have 2 disabled survivors. One has then to go for the hooktrade/save and will probably end up on the floor too. This means only one person does work on a generator, 3 survivors are injured or 2 injured and one on the floor. It is complete chaos.
The only time I escaped a match like this was by hatch or by facing a killer who cannot really control it's powers. But if a killer is so bad at the game that he cannot utilize his power enough in a 3v1 with 3 gens left then he probably is not very experienced. This would mean that people tend to start tunneling pretty early in their dbd experience and fall back on that except from learning more about their killers power or map control.
I may not be the best survivor but I've been around for quite some time and wouldn't consider myself an easy target.
The reason survivors keep playing this game is because there's no viable alternative. DBD is like the World of Warcraft of asym survival games. Many tried to replace it but they all failed.
The premise is different. In the first place, the only time you lose a survivor at 5gen is when the difference in ability is too great between the killer and the survivor, or when an extremely unfortunate accident occurs. Fundamentally, such a development would not be possible without four survivors who are only interested in survival and do not work.
In this game, the survivor's hook state is the time limit for all survivors, and the gen is the time limit for the killer. Rather than thinking about the survival of only one survivor, it increases the survival rate of all survivors, and sometimes even sacrifices itself. If you're going to call yourself an expert survivor, you need to understand that kind of advantage in the game.
Even if I die in this match, a survivor who thinks the same way as me will save me in the next match. Just completing gen while someone else is in the chase. The survivor who takes on the chase will form a chase route so as not to interfere with other survivors completing their gens. Don't waste pallets near uncompleted gens, and use pallets wisely to avoid creating a scorched waste of pallets.
A survivor with Sprint Burst will be in charge of the gen in the danger zone. And the most important thing. Being knocked down in a better position than escaping from the killer. Rather than trying to escape, it is better to sacrifice yourself so that the comp gen does not get in the way, so that you can escape after the electricity is turned on. To know that.
"Survivors of intermediate level or above" who understand these things will not lose one survivor in 5 gen noncompleted unless it is their own mistake or a difference in skill with the killer.
Even if the four soloQ survivors cooperate, absolutely.