Are the devs serious?
I’m not sure if they were trolling or just don’t know in regards to the pig “buffs.” She is, objectively, right now a better character than she will be after the patch. The slowdown/threat of a headpop is the best thing pig has, and it’s being severely nerfed
Meanwhile they are buffing the worst part of her kit, which is still counterable by predropping and running away from the loop. Huge L for Pig.
Comments
Nope, I know this because I’ve been playing since 2018. It’s not map size so much as it is tile/pallet density, and the fact that the majority of loops favor the survivor-side. There’s so much clutter and random junk that prevent aiming-based killers from having the opportunity to take a shot. There’s also breakable walls, which 9/10 favor the survivor because the killer is forced to break them.
You can say that Huntress is strong, but the devs disagree with you. In fact they explicitly said in the patch notes that maps hurt her, which is why she is being buffed.
Huh so you're saying that tile/pallet density is better than it used to be in 2018 for survivors? And that loops are better for survivors now?
traps are nerfed for every single pig player not tunneling or using scream builds.
I am saying this was a terrible change.
I would have made it so the boxes searches can't be interrupted. so no more scream builds. the extra 30s do nothing but make the traps worse.
Some maps are improved, especially farm. But then you have things like crotus penn and the game which are still very unfair. Maps like autohaven have had the loops adjusted, but added clutter to screw over projectile killers. Also keep in mind, gen regression has been heavily nerfed since then. Loops for survivor are still incredibly strong on most maps.
Let me add to that a bit:
Make her crouch 4,0 m/s
Make her terror radius 24 meters
HAHA you have to be joking if you seriously think farm maps are better for survivors now than they used to be. Cleary you have NOT played on 2018 thompsons house or rotten fields.
They added a few obstacles here and there on a few maps, if that's seriously throwing off your ability to play ranged characters you weren't playing ranged characters correctly in the first place.
Loops for survivors are so much worse than they used to be. Take for example all these new tiles such as the 3 lane which are alot worse than original jungle gyms. Windows on main buildings have been consistently nerfed and are a shell of what they used to be. The number of loops has dropped significantly. New maps like the nostromo have many garabge pallets in the rocks which you need to predrop and get lucky on a mindgame or you die, not even mentioning that 70% of killers now have chase powers anyway that negate all of this. This is ALSO not taking into account all of the killer buffs which have happened over the years to survivor speed boosts, killer recovery times, action times for killer, decreased vault speeds, removal of pallet vaccuum, removal of dh.
Oh and seriously you think gen regression is worse now than it used to be? In 2018 you had ruin and that was IT. 80 second gens, toolboxes which halfed gen times, brand new parts which did gens instantly, stronger survivor perks for gens such as prove thyself.
If you seriously think this then no amount of killer buffs will appease you.
I said the farm maps aren’t as bad as they used to be. I can tell you don’t play ranged killers- there are so many things blocking LOS that survivors usually don’t have to try to deny the shot from happening. Again, it’s not like I’m missing shots- survivors all pre run and use the map to make sure I have no chance at a shot. You conveniently left out that there are many maps in current Dbd that are extremely busted and unfair, such as asylum, the game, all versions of badham, leary’s (especially for ranged killers), garden of joy….need I continue?
Gen regression was objectively stronger, mainly because pop and ruin were better. Killers have gotten worse as a whole. 2018 Nurse and Spirit were easily more powerful than anything currently in the game. Nurse has been nerfed 50 times since then, and like most killers has a janky cooldown mechanic now. It’s really not even a tier issue so much as it is that most killers feel neither fluid nor powerful. They have baby mode, built-in counterplay that deletes their power or a lousy cooldown mechanic.
Nah, that's a reply. That's a conversation. You provided anything just now.
Does a chase power mean something usable in chase or is it just stuff like blight, oni, wesker and billy that prevents W? Is there less than 10 chase powers in the game?
What was the point of you replying to me here? I see none.
Pig can do better at certain tiles compared to just going for m1 when using power, that's a chase power. Preventing W is exclusive to very few killers.
If you force a survivor to a tile you can go for ambush, if they W via the use of your head set you can use the extremely useful ctrl button to uncrouch at a rapid pace and then catch them hopefully before another tile(likely these days). You've just assumed that a survivor wing for a tile means they always get to the next one which is just incorrect.
You still get the same slowdown, you have a better power for chase, you just can't do something requiring 3 cells of the brain. Check those time stamps in my previous comments, reply for real or don't reply to me at all thanks!
I didn't realize you had no intent for conversation.
Chase power: has benefit at least at certain tiles or most tiles over just m1ing.
Video: it's not an otz video, it's a scott jund video and I provided time stamps for real examples of pigs power being useful. I wrote my entire comment before that video before viewing it.
the point in that reply? making a joke.
the same applies to trapper, so trapper has a chase power.
guess the real joke was always your definition of chase power.
let me add a bit more.
the rbts don't have a 1-2-3-4 array on the box searches anymore, but a 2-3-3-4-4 array. (yes, she has 5 by default now)
the scream on the ambush happens at the halfway point of the bar, not the start.
So from 12 searches to 16.
192 seconds of slowdown, roughly 400-450 with travel time. Closer to 7 minutes of slowdown as opposed to 5.
That is a very significant buff.
it is.
and I think it would make pig pretty good. but not one of the best killers.
(obvs pair this with disabling screams from interrupting boxes so the current cheese builds aren't a thing)
Cool. That's your definition. And by that definition we can not think of any killer that doesn't have a chase power then. GF has benefits at large wall tiles and ones that break sight, Trapper can completely lethalize a loop which is better at certain times like garden of joy, merchant has her drones, pinhead has chains that can screw up the average survivor timing, etc.
Gonna be honest here, the three of us detest the big name streamers. Can we assume that the video in question shows that pigs ambush can be used in chase (which none of us denied) to provide evidence as to it being a chase power (by your definition)?
You spent three replies spouting with no backing, so I can only assume your comments are irrelevant in any thread from here on out.
You assume trapper has a chase power... I could not care less...
Personally I just think the two RBT nerfs she got was the wrong ones. The nerfs doesn't actually do anything to fix the main problem with pig and that's her synergy with screaming builds. A pig who wants to pop someone head will still do so if they running UW and Face the Darkness and harass the person with a trap on their head. Meanwhile these nerfs only hurt every one else and removes some nuance from playing pig. Honestly this post sums it better than I can:
Also I still don't think her chase power is all that great despise what few streamers and others on this thread says. She still suffers a lot from predropping and shift w'ing. Plus I say she even more addon dependent because her two chase add-ons still feel needed to make ambush feel good. Like why run RBT add-ons anymore since they got nerfed? Just might as well only run her only two good chase add-ons. You honestly better off playing pinhead since he also has a slowdown power and an actually decent chase power. Personally I just think they could do more to make her power feel better. I don't think the little buffs she got is nearly a enough especially to justify the trap nerfs.
This is one that sticks out to me as well. Basically any trap dependant add-on becomes basically worthless compared to the chase ones.
Why bother using her trap add-ons if there is no chance of a head pop.
Honestly now that RBTs are basically no threat whatsoever and are "just for slowdown", and her chase is so much better apparently that it rivals Chucky and Wesker (if content creators are to be believed), I expect Amanda's Letter and Jigsaw's Sketch to become meta. Since survivors with headtraps won't care about them being activated or not and will be working on gens, I get a comparable amount of my slowdown, and I have wall hacks on all my anti loops to use my apparently new meta redefining chase.
Completely agree and it's annoying that people are not talking about how most of her add-on are getting nerfed as well with her RBT nerfs. Like most of her add-ons involves making her RBT harder to get off and make them little more lethal but if the traps are being reduced to "just for slowdown" then all these add-ons become completely useless. She is being left with maybe four good add-ons and one of those 4 is hurting your so call slowdown. Personally if these nerfs go through I like Amanda's letter changed so it doesn't take your RBT away and just give you wall hacks when crouching.
I don't know about anyone else but I hate when a killer only has few good add-ons and the rest is trash. It's the reason I don't like Freddy or PH because my builds with them will always be the same. Why run anything else other than range on PH? When not just run paint brush all the time on Freddy? Now pig joins them with "Why run any other addon other than chase on Pig?"
As for content creators I'm getting so annoyed with everyone who uses them to show if a killer is good or not especially when it comes to the PTB. Most streamers (esp the ones I watch) don't even do public matches on the PTB since queue times are so long. They play with their viewers or mods and that is not a good way imo to judge a killers strength since A) we don't know the survivors level of skill, and B) we don't know if the survivors are actually trying to win or they just there to help their fav streamer. Take Scott for example, I watched his game play of pig from the PTB and yeah he made her chase look strong but why should I take his word on this? He playing with his viewers so all I know they are either playing not to win bc it's against Scott and as far I know Scott never plays Pig. I believe any pig mains on here before I believe any content creator about how good Pig is. At least I know most of y'all most likely played in public matches.
Either way I got off topic a bit there. I just sad that Pig addon situation is being boiled down to having to run two of the few chase add-ons she has. Not really fun to not have options to pick from. These buffs were supposed to make it feel where you don't have to always run chase add-ons on her to have a decent chase but it doing the opposite.
To be fair, what's changed regarding her addons?
Half of them are bad right now, regardless of any changes, and most of the bad ones are the ones that affect RBTs. After the changes, you're still gonna have the same number of consistently useful addons-- maybe minus one if you consider Tampered Timer to be a good/useful addon right now, but I don't, so I wouldn't count it myself.
You still have all the chase ones, those ones only got better. You still have the two Gears addons, those haven't changed and they're still good. Both addons that give you an extra RBT are good, though their other effects are meh. Amanda's Letter should be getting a little better due to her stealth/ambush being buffed...
Which addons are actually getting worse? The Mangled one, I guess? It wasn't exactly a good one to begin with, though.
You've said this before, and I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to say you're wrong.
Why exactly do her RBTs need to have the 30s timer nerf? If this apparently is a really good nerf that solves her problematic playstyle, how can an add-on that gives 20s in the other direction be 'not good' to your mind? How is 30s so good, but 20s so weak? How is 150s problematic to the point of requiring a nerf, 180s is fine, but 130s is not considered strong by you?
If these 2 nerfs are considered strong enough to neuter a supposedly overpowered and unfair playstyle, that are apparently required for her basekit even when people aren't running add-ons affecting RBTs, how are the addons making this playstyle stronger not powerful? Your logic doesn't make sense.
While Otzdarva is not an authority on add-ons, could you please explain why he is wrong in every one of these instances from 3:02:16?
https://youtu.be/tX-4lk-EWPk?si=aC5VL4VhomA1V5h7Lastly, can you explain why, if supposedly these add-ons are so bad you are not asking for them to be buffed? That would be sensible for a weak add-on no? Especially now that basekit changes have made these worse.
Not gonna watch a video here, sorry, got other stuff going.
Beyond that, there's a couple of things wrong here. First, I think I've said this before but I'll repeat it just so we're all on the same page: I don't actually think the 30s extra on the timer is really going to achieve much. I think I know what it's meant to do, and what it's meant to do is definitely something that is worth doing so I've definitely defended that, but the fact of the matter is that the length of the timer has to change by a lot before it matters.
So yeah, thirty seconds extra doesn't do much and twenty seconds less doesn't do much. The Tampered Timer is not an atrocious addon, it has some effect, but I am of the opinion it's not one of her better ones because... well, like I said, the length of the timer isn't really that important. In my experience the TT doesn't actually make head-pops more common, and it definitely shouldn't do that, so at that point what am I even bringing it for? Survivors already have to do their traps ASAP if they don't want to play risky.
I think some wires got crossed in previous discussions, and that's perfectly reasonable, it happens. When I defend the nerfs from the specific complaint that her RBTs are being gutted, that doesn't mean I think the nerfs are actually going to achieve much. I've seen that big feedback thread and I think those changes are better than the extra time on the timer, but everyone always makes two statements at once: "These nerfs won't fix the problem" AND "These nerfs affect every other player very noticeably". The first statement is true, the second statement isn't.
I do think hiding the auras of the boxes is a more impactful change when it comes to preventing unhealthy stuff, though. That one I'm fine with.
As for your last question: There's a lot of things I'm not saying here, and that's because they're not relevant. I would love to see an addon overhaul for Pig, but I don't think I need to say that every single time I mention that she has some kinda bad addons, especially since she's not even close to the worst in the game in that regard.
I remember when I suggested a rework to address chasing survivors with the RBT on in a discord server
-Putting a survivor into the dying state with a trap activated breaks/remove the trap
-"Rules Set No.2" basekit (boxes aura only revealed if the trap is activated)
-Starts the game with 3 more traps base-kit
-Jigsaw boxes take twice as long to complete
And they said it was a massive nerf
Ah OK. I do disagree with you, I think the length timer does make a big difference, however now your assertion does make more sense, so thanks for taking the time to explain and clear that up.
My experience is these add-ons make playing nasty much easier, and I have seen a few games with the more recent updates using these add-ons that have made head pops very nasty while still exerting control on the map...
I don't like doing it, so haven't got many games where I tried it, but it did feel dirty to me. I have never asked for a nerf, cause obviously Pig hasn't been particularly strong anyway... but at least with my experience, these addons can be quite ugly.
That's honestly why I'm of the opinion that the Tampered Timer is an unhealthy design, too. The only times it does anything is when it can be leveraged to force head-pops more reliably, and that's unhealthy, the Pig shouldn't be able to reliably force a survivor into their fail state without them actually failing at anything.
There is a middle ground where it's threatening without being too reliable, but I feel like this addon just swings from one end to the other. I'd really like to see it reworked, it's safer than trying to hit that shifting bullseye with whack-a-mole updates every time it goes too far in one direction.
I'm of the same opinion tbh, Tampered Timer to me was the problem add-on of the Pig. The one you used when you just wanted to try and ensure someone dies to a head trap.
Tbh when reading the patch notes about nerfing RBTs, I genuinely thought this add-on was obviously up for the chop... 20s off the timer was too much, and unhealthy... which is why I hate this +30s change, cause I feel that goes too far the other way. Obviously I know you disagree, but to me, I can't imagine having any fear of a trap at all.
Before I used to think "Crap... that first trap was really fast... if she has Tampered Timer and Gears I don't have time to heal, I've gotta move..." along with a healthy dose of "#########... Pig isn't in chase... please don't be coming here...".
Now I don't worry about Tampered Timer ofc... but I also don't worry about the trap either. In my head it's like "ah nuts, I've been trapped... now I have to do Boxes... oh well let's heal up and get on with it", along with "lool! Why are you chasing me Pig? You're pausing my Timer... you've got nothing, and gens flying... you idiot... xD".
It's a bad look to be looking at traps and finding them mildly inconvenient, to borderline funny.
Edit: Unless it's a scream build Pig with gears and TT... in which case 💀
Then whats the point of Pigs Timer reducing addons? These were part to change pigs playstyle now there even more worthless then before
An addon existing doesn't mean it's helpful, well designed, or healthy.
Tombstone Piece exists and has existed for years, but it's terribly designed and unhealthy. While Pig's timer-reducing addons aren't that bad, they're in a similar boat.
There's also only one that actually matters, the Tampered Timer. The other one, Jigsaw's Annotated Plan, is both unhealthy and extremely bad- the extra RBT is nice, but the effects that actually involve the timer are so weak they're not even noticeable.
absolutely wrong best stealth power goes to wraith obviously
oh boy a .2 sec duration that still doesn't work at average to big loops joooooy
can anyone with a terrible power like ambush?
The ambush buffs is NOT a gamechanger its a nothing burger if they made her dash addons basekit then it would kinda been gamechanging but no shes still heavily reliant on those addons to be decent at good loops
Well excuse us for wanting variety playstyles on pig can't wait till the addon pass and they just lazily rework annotated plans to just give 3 more traps or my bets on tampered timer will be buffed to compensate the timer nerf
You're telling me these 5 changes are nothing?????
Funny you mention this because the head trap timer change didn't even go through, that's how scared the developers are of even mentioning the word nerf and killer together because people lose their minds. So now its just straight up huge buffs and you can't deny it.
Is it pig buffs now yes. is this major buffs? No its more just quality of life buffs pig feels better to play as but doesn't raise her a tier or anything major she's still just the same as she always is still gotta run straps and grease to make her ambush and crouch any good
ONLY quality of life changes?????
So when is pig actually better? When her ambush never ends how about that? Or how about head traps are guaranteed to kill survivors now that sounds pretty good.
When does your constant call for buffs end? When will you actually achknlowedge buffs when they happen.