Are the devs serious?
I’m not sure if they were trolling or just don’t know in regards to the pig “buffs.” She is, objectively, right now a better character than she will be after the patch. The slowdown/threat of a headpop is the best thing pig has, and it’s being severely nerfed
Meanwhile they are buffing the worst part of her kit, which is still counterable by predropping and running away from the loop. Huge L for Pig.
Comments
How about trying the changes before determining that the buff to her chase won't work. If the survivor is just predropping every semi-decent pallet rather than looping, they're going to run out of resources...
not really... depends on the map, the team and how efficient on gens they are.
you need the traps to go on people fast to get value from them. so you really want fast downs.
late game downs on pig is not nearly as good or meaningful.
That doesnt matter that often though. Pig is still 4.6m/s. The fastest she goes is 4.6m/s. With the buffs, she is encouraged to walk around the map with 3.8m/s. On many maps, that is too slow to stop or even interrupt generator progress. Shes not Sadako, who can teleport, Shes not Blight, who has the ability to defend cross map 3 gens and shes not Nurse, who can end chases in under 10 seconds. Traps and also playing around head pops is an elemental part of her kit, just as stealth and ambush are. Im dissapointed that many people seem to forget this.
Im gonna try the changes out, trust me. But out of the experience i have, these nerfs are way more severe, than what i imagined. They definitely dont tackle the "unhealthy" screaming build some people are using. Thats for sure.
I'm failing to understand how buffing her chase power doesn't fix exactly that. Or why your upset about an extra 30 seconds on RBTs that never touched a survivor head apparently.
Semantics, but the fastest she can go basekit is 6.9 m/s. Thats her dash speed, but I know thats not what you meant. As for her crouch speed... you're right that if she's taking a stroll around the map it's gonna be slow. If she's closing the last 32 meters to a gen... not so much. As far as not having a teleport, she'll be one of the many killers in this game that don't.
Again there is some problems with the add-ons. Around have of them are based around the lethality of RBT so that has to be some compensation in the add-ons
its a jarring change, due to the fact that the reasoning is “to make her less reliant on RBT” which is fine! But again, she wasn’t in a place to get any nerfs at all.
It should be more lethal than sadako’s power not less. Sadako is easier to apply, and you can apply it multiple times even if they remove it (although at that point it’s more a winmore skill)
for Pig, you get Limited RBTs and with this nerf to lethality it makes them a joke.
i don’t understand why so many people are content with letting Pig be a D Tier killer. Considering the relationship the creators of Saw have with BHVR I would expect pig to be at least B tier right?
That is true. My point is, that against a killer that cannot traverse the map quickly to change the chase or harass survivors off gens, pre dropping is a very strong strategy. This will not change against the Pig. Leaving her chase buffs nice but not as strong to warrant the nerfs to the rest of her kit.
In my opinion, the nerfs need to be less severe nor the buffs need to be a lot stronger. Right now, i cant call this a buff by any means. Its a stagnation at best.
because her power is not very good in chase. it's very situational and requires knowing where it can be used. and most of the times it can be used, it's beaten by a pallet drop or window vault.
I don't think it was buffed enough to compensate for the issues it currently has.
Yeah overall nerf imo. How hard is it to just throw Pig a buff without nerfing something else.
Even aside from power level, this change also makes her just less fun to play. The biggest thing I enjoyed about Pig was her macro level game play of juggling survivors and trying to multi pressure gens and boxes at the same time while mentally tracking party hat timers.
What will we have now? Oh just another killer like all the rest with some passive slow down with little interaction that just works in the background while you have some anti loop. She loses all uniqueness she had. Like what am I getting from her I can't just experience with another killer now other than aesthetics?
For how long we've been waiting on crouch/ambush fixes we didn't want it along side nerfs like this. I'd rather have current Pig than this.
At loops, if you're going to ambush, you should take control if the pallet. Start the ambush at or near the pallet so youll hit the survivor before they get back around to it. Obviously if a survivor is camping a pallet and not looping, ambush isn't going to do anything, but they're also blowing through resources fast and making a giant deadzone. Deadzones against stealth killers in general are really bad for survivors. Get afew easy and fast pallets from them, then break off rather than allowing 1 survivor to show you the entire map.
Not really, I can literally just use that 1 minute to do gens or heal or do rescues, and then since pig acnnot see boxes anymore I can just take it off without worrying she will interrupt me. Its a win-win for me, I get a minute of objective time and also a safer box search.
Common pig L.
What exactly do you presume the Pig is doing while you're neglecting your trap?
I'd also point out that the Pig doesn't need to see box auras to interrupt you, she just needs to see you. If you neglect your trap for an entire minute, you're giving yourself way less time to actually search multiple boxes, and if the Pig brings any way of tracking you then you're going to be at huge risk of a head pop.
I think a lot of people are assuming that not being able to see the box auras automatically means the Pig is completely incapable of like, basic tracking, or bringing info perks. No, it's just slightly harder. The longer you have a trap, the more time she has to even just stumble across you when she isn't actively looking, let alone find you if she is looking.
The buff to the chase will not change her effectiveness as ambush is still useless, if you know how to vault windows or drop pallets this change is nothing really. Like I think its more likelly to get downed by deep wound than to get hit by pigs ambush, you have to be trolling or just have less than 50 hours for ambush to hit you.
People are really making mental gymnastics to justify Pig deserving a compensatory nerf when nobody would've called her overturned or even top tier if all she received would've been these buffs, so what are y'all even so adamant about ? Killers like Huntress and Hag are only receiving net buffs even tho they're already much stronger than Pig, but apparently Pig is the one that needs to be kept in check with a compensatory nerf, alright ...
She has to pressure gens, people healing or chasing as her chase is still VERY weak so any decent player will loop her for more than 30 seconds in fact a good player has no excuse to not loop pig for less than a minute if thry are not in a deadzone.
Also even now 2.5 minutes is more than enough to get even the 4 box searches off, the only risk being pig interupting you which will be more rare now so I wouldnt worry much about it.
As for pig using tracking perks: just use distortion, its usefull against all killers and with the change of auras for pig it will make all search boxes safe unless you are foolish enough to do it injured, and hey you have 30 extra seconds so you can heal in that time :).
No killer has to pressure gens and most killer players would do a lot better once they realise that. Pig, like every killer, pressures survivors and mostly only uses gens as bait. As for her chase being weak, that is literally what they are buffing on the PTB, so at least confirm the changes aren't enough before doomsaying?
It's meant to be enough to get the searches off, that's the point of her power. Survivors aren't supposed to die to RBTs, they're supposed to willingly trade gen time for the guarantee that they won't die to RBTs. That's the whole point. If this change makes survivors less likely to die to either randomly getting a bad box spread and not having time, or to Pig players who aggressively harass them away from boxes, good. That means the power is working more as intended.
Do I need to point out that there's more ways of tracking survivors than aura perks, and that spending box-search time healing is risky?
The chase changes wont do anything, ambush will still be useless, any person who knows how to loop will realise this. But if you want lets wait for the update just to show that ambush will be as usefull as ever, so still useless.
Boxes are meant to waste time thats true but they also had an added risk if the pig player was good at outputting pressure, they will lose that aspect and will be a side objective with no risk at all.
There are way more for sure, like crows or blood, grunts of pain too, scratch marks are good, still blood and grunts are not there when healed and given no changes are done to search time I have 30 seconds more than before and taking into account the previous time was more than enough, those 30 seconds are just a bonus I can use for healing with no added risk as I still have the 2.5 minutes that are enough to take the helmet off.
Not that I'm trying to rubbish your point... but you do realise that by giving survivors more time, you allow them to commit to actions they normally wouldn't be able to?
If it were true survivors weren't meant to die to head traps, can you explain why addons exist to increase her head trap lethality?
All of these add-ons consume more of the survivor's time relative to the head trap timer, to varying degrees of success.
Should all of these add-ons be reworked to not interact with any head trap lethality whatsoever, since that isn't the point of head traps?
Thank you, may BHV read that and all player that says traps arent meat to kill
I mean, none of those addons are all that good except for the two Gears addons, and those addons are good because they increase the slowdown more than because they increase lethality.
The idea of addons that decrease the timer is presumably that a shorter timer would mean more urgency for the survivors, but there's two major things to remember: the first is that the ability to do something with addons doesn't always translate to that thing being necessary, important, or even balanced basekit, and the second is that these addons aren't particularly amazing, you're not giving me a list of Pig's best addons here.
Those addons aren't that amazing specifically because the lethality of the traps isn't really why you bring them, and the time they detract from the timer can't be that strong - Crate of Gears and Tampered Timer was nerfed a while ago to make sure of this, because bringing the old version of those addons with a little extra work made head-pops way too reliable.
Providing more urgency is fine, it's not a bad effect to bring with addons, but the increase of thirty seconds lessening the urgency somewhat doesn't necessarily then become something you'll notice with regular/good Pig gameplay. Hell, if anything, it's more time with traps on which gives more time for other addon effects to work, more time to keep survivors off generators, and in general just more trap slowdown. You almost want the traps on for as long as possible, as long as the survivor doesn't feel too safe working on a generator with one active- which thirty extra seconds shouldn't cause, and if it does, you can capitalise on it. Remember, the change that made the average trap take more searches was a buff because they have the hat on for longer now.
None of this applies to the two bottom addons, those are just flat out bad.
Then it would need to be fixed like with Stab Wounds study and Frank’s mixtape.
both of those existed post legion nerf and allowed for a dead playstyle that was just bad.
you can’t have it both way, either make the traps good or bad but don’t have add-ons for a dead playstyle.
also the mental gymnastics are insane, pig doesn’t need nerfs at all what the hell is this.
“But Pig shouldn’t pressure boxes”
stop trying to pigeon hole pig into one playstyle
Sure, if you want. Pig doesn't have particularly amazing addons, I wouldn't be against giving her new effects for these addons. Like I said, they're not very good, I'd love if they were changed to something more directly useful.
Don't know why you think this is a "can't have it both ways" gotcha when my answer is pretty predictable, lol.
I also don't know why you're accusing me of mental gymnastics saying "Pig shouldn't pressure boxes", I've never said that, you should be able to and you'll still be able to after this nerf. The only thing I think should get weaker is aggressively harassing one survivor until they are dead, because any way of doing that in DBD is unhealthy and unpleasant. I don't even think these nerfs really prevent that, though, so that's barely even relevant.
The timer nerf makes sense for the above reason and because there are maps where the timer might not be enough to search four boxes, it's whatever. Minor change, wouldn't have called for it myself but I also don't mind that it's happening. The box aura nerf... eh. I'll test it, but I don't imagine it'll make a huge difference, might be wrong.
I've always appreciated your argumentation friend, but on this one I have to hard disagree.
Tampered Timer and Rules Set No.2 are not slouch add-ons. We've had scores of people talk about how 4 box traps can easily get you killed, and thats why the 30s increase is needed, and these add-ons absolutely exacerbate that problem. They directly increase your chance of not having enough time to get your trap off. That is obvious and not debatable.
The Gears add-ons add 3s and ~1.7s per box, that means across 4 boxes you're adding 4.7s per box with both add-ons, or an upper bound of 18.8s total. That isn't as high as Tampered Timer with its 20s, so why are they good? Because they allow the Pig more time to interrupt... but apparently we want yo stop that...
I never said the bottom add-ons were good. Decent players can still hit the skillchecks, so the add-ons suck. However the design is that missing a skillcheck means the Pig gets a Notification and again, can interrupt.
The Deep wound directly stops you from removing your head trap, because you're bleeding out, which means it costs you time.
The point of my argument is all of Pigs design up to this point has been for her to patrol and interrupt survivors, and put pressure on to cause head pops. It's balanced by the fact that if she chases, the timer is paused, so can't just do like an idiot, but all of these add-ons push an idea of interrupting survivors on boxes, and increasing the chance of a head pop.
That is my evidence for why this argument of yours that survivors aren't meant to die to head traps is wrong.
I am sorry, I didn’t mean to do a gotcha or be overly aggressive, I misread your points and got upset and for that I’m sorry. This isn’t like a funny joke, I got hostile and overreacted.
my main anger comes from the fact that Pig getting this nerf feels unnecessary and I am annoyed that despite acknowledging that pig is over nerfed, a nerf was still given.
This change gives pig less control which doesn’t make sense lore wise, and kinda bums me out. Deep down I knew it would be impossible to fix pig with simple changes but I am still disappointed with the changes
No they’re not. There are too many resources on most maps. If their teammates decide to do gens, it’s over
So again, you’re saying that one of the weakest killers in the game deserves a nerf?
She's not getting a nerf, she's getting an overall buff.
The dash will not make a difference. It will still be beaten by predropping and long loops. Nerfs to her base power are far more impactful then those irrelevant changes.
The dash will not make a difference.
It will make more of a difference than the increased timer.
believe me, I play enough pig to know the mindgames and when it's generaly good to ambush. which is not a lot of times.
I also know many times you lose to "survivor decided not to play the mindgame with you at all and just ran to the next loop".
this buff does not make her have a chase power. it's a stealth attack power with small applications in chase. it would need more substancial buffs before it can be actually effective in chase
In the top 10 kill rates.
Pig gets a buff to chase, a slight nerf to camping/tunneling out trapped survivors.
Really dont see the issue.
If people think this is an overall nerf than they need to change up their style of play.
Its called slowdown, not a handout kill the moment you put a trap on the survivor.
Another person justifying nerfs to a bad killer….modern dbd community xD
1. not a bad killer
Is she bad because she sucks? And sucks because shes terrible? And terrible because some streamer said it and now you take it out of context thinking that applies to you?
2. a nerf to a low input high reward playstyle. But a buff to her chase/ambush
I have 5000 hours in this game. I don’t need a streamer to validate my opinion. Pig is a weak killer who can’t chase. The one thing she did have is now being nerfed.
I mean if you have 5k hours and think the only way to play pig is to tunnel people and camp the trap removal stations that's fine.
I think that highlights an issue in your play more than the killer supposed strength though.
I don’t see how it’s an issue when I’m successful with it. Maybe the issue is that you and other people in this thread want killers to be played in a specific way, that you approve of. Luckily, I don’t play by the survivor rule book.
So then the question is: can you be successful without it?
I’ll just play a killer that has actual antiloop. Contrary to popular belief, the best players don’t handicap themselves. They use the strongest stuff in the game. If you want to use that logic, then survivors shouldn’t be allowed to stack instaheals or BNPs, or all run adrenaline etc… It’s hard to understand how you think that way only when it applies to killer. Apparently it’s fine for survivors to use strong tactics, but not the other way around
So that answer is no
Yes or no, was pig nerfed?
Well luckily you can still do it, you just dont get an aura showing you where the stations are. If you have 5k hours, surely you know how to identify where notables on the maps are without needing an aura to tell you.
Have you played PTB pig currently? Or are you just repeating what everyone says about pig who have also not tested any of the changes out?
Right, because adding yet another thing that killer has to keep track of is a good move. Survivors are spoon fed information with the hud. I’m not wasting time with her on ptb, especially when killer q takes years. I know how the game works and don’t need to see it.
I've always regarded the head pops as a bonus, not a goal. It's one reason one of my favorite Pig add-ons is Ruleset No 2. It hinders Survivors ability to find their boxes until theyre on the clock.
My rule with trapped Survivors is they're the ones I least need to worry about. I'll smack them if I get the chance, sure, but won't go out of my way for it.
Sorry about the late response, I was distracted by the PTB, lol
So I think a big miscommunication between us is that you seem to think I/this change is in favour of Pig being stopped from interrupting searches, and I don't think that's quite accurate. There's not actually anything in these changes stopping Pig from interrupting boxes, it's just harder to get specifically a head-pop from doing it and you have to utilise a little more tracking skill to try it in the first place.
What I think this change is meant to accomplish is twofold, in that regard. I think it's meant to communicate to Pig players, especially newer ones, that you're not really supposed to be patrolling those boxes as your primary gameplay loop, you're meant to be spreading pressure. The second is that I think it's meant to reinforce that the benefit of interrupting boxes now and then is more slowdown, not a head-pop. Find a survivor on a box, harry them away, go do something else, that survivor is forced to either double back around and risk running into you again or run to another box.
The problem with the increase-urgency addons is that they increase the risk of dying to a head trap. That's exactly why the Tampered Timer + Crate of Gears combination was nerfed, it increased the risk to the point where the survivor couldn't reasonably guarantee staying alive if they dropped everything to go search boxes, which skewed Pig's power massively from a fair slowdown mechanic to an unfair free kill. Now when you run them, it increases urgency, but only to the point where you have much less leeway to do anything else; you're still probably not gonna die unless the Pig hard-focuses you.
This is also why I don't think current Tampered Timer is actually all that good. The slowdown from the Gears addons adds up, even if it's kinda minor, but the Tampered Timer doesn't actually make head-pops reliable (which it shouldn't) nor does it actually change the slowdown numbers at all, it just makes survivors go through their searches quicker without any dallying around which can kind of backfire on you if they only have a few searches to do at all. I'd much rather see this addon reworked to be more cohesive with what her kit actually excels in, at least the Annotated Plan provides some really meagre team pressure to stop gen repairs entirely- and even then it's not good.
The addons existing doesn't mean they're inherently well designed or healthy. Killers have had dumb problematic addons for as long as the game's been out, on and off. Even so, if you were to argue that the playstyle of Pig trying to ambush searches and gain pressure that way is healthy, the fact that it's still extremely doable with those addons and just requires more effort + brainpower would still support my base claim. What a power's designed to do at base can be altered with addons, after all.
I am really starting to doubt that you have 5k hours on this game. Im really not sure where you are going with this. You dont need to know where things are or "keep track of" at a certain point in both survivor play and killer play. 5k hours is beyond that point, you should have a good feel of where everything is, especially on killer where you dont have other people that could effect that knowledge (did my team throw that pallet?).
If you dont want to actually test the changes on the PTB you are free to your opinion on the changes. But you might want to actually test things out before forming an opinion. Her chase and anti-loop is now pretty strong on the PTB.
Maybe actually try her out and see what you think. Rather than what you are currently doing.
Yes and no.
So if your going to dodge our yes or no question some more please atleast be amusing about it.
Just tried it, with addons to help boost it. Still bad, and only works at short loops, which M1 killers can mindgame without dash. At a loop with any kind of wall, you’re not getting a hit. Worthless change.
Well you probably aren't that good at it seeing as you admitted to playing the trap/tunnel play style. You are used to checking auras on the station and not so much chasing.
Keep practicing. If you can provide footage, that helps as well.
Yea man, I’m sure the best pig players can go through pallets. It isn’t hard to use. My point is that survivors can deny it at most loops by using their eyes and predropping. It isn’t worth her power being nerfed.
Since I can't access the PTB... Is the dash useful OUTSIDE loops? If I crouch and ambush straight, would it cover more distance than just holding W for an M1?