Nurse Counterplay
This discussion is designed for the developers.
How can we possibly counter a pro nurse player?
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This discussion is designed for the developers.
How can we possibly counter a pro nurse player?
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Visions from beyond the grave. I don't know.
They HAVE to gut Nurse at somepoint.
Pray Nurse is bad
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There's no counter to a pro nurse. This should be obvious.
Chances are you aren't facing a pro level Nurse. There aren't even 100 of them out there in each region. And ideally, you're only matched up against one if you and your teammate's MMR matches. But matchmaking doesn't want anyone waiting longer 5 seconds for a match, match quality be damned, so who knows.
Not answered my question. I am playing in the U.S. and I today I faced 6 nurses during my playtime. All of them were very precise with their blinks and I had any chance even with my dead hard.
If you have a VOD I can give pointers if you're actually looking for coaching. But most of the time I write up advice on Nurse counterplay and I'm met with "lol no I'm already doing that". Easier to have a VOD to work with to point out specific things.
If you could do that, please, add this here. The more knowledge we have, better. If there is a real strategy to counter nurse without need to rely on full stealth build, please, make a video with some, and let's spread the word. Otherwise, people will keep asking for a well-deserved nerf for her.
The biggest counterplay is being as random as possible. If you don't know what you're doing how can the nurse know?
Break LOS and go in a random direction. If there is no high structure, run edge map or comp corner to squeeze as much juice out of your chase as you possibly can. Rocks and random boxes are your friend. Run to a high rock, break LOS and run around it entirely. Most times they miss.
Gen efficiency is the biggest counter to nurse. Don't stack gens. Always be doing something on your own. Force her to the empty side of the map. Don't be afraid to get hooked. A big issue in solo queue is players who think they are good for not getting hooked. No, you've essentially lost our pressure because one person is going to be taking those hook states for you ergo knocking someone out of the game faster. If you lose someone before 3 gens are done it's gg.
That being said, she could really benefit from some balance passing.
Cry while you slowly eat apples in a desperate bid to ward the teleporting medical professional away.
What about if the nurse has aura reading perks?
What about if the nurse has starstruck?
What about if the nurse was double range or double recovering add-ons?
What about if the map is red forest? (The 8 pallets map)
What about if the nurse has eruption?
That's my point. Even though these strategies that you point out make sense, they are not realistic when we are playing against these kind of players.
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Every aura reading perk is one less slowdown perk. A big part of playing against Nurse is positioning properly. There's generally not a reason to be in the spots where aura reading will help Nurse in the first place.
Starstruck- Run away. Not being facetious. You shouldn't be anywhere near a downed player against Nurse. Run away. Run to the wall of the map. Get out of her TR and wait it out. There's zero upside in hanging out near a downed player in her terror radius.
Pallets aren't your first line of defense against a Nurse. Any LOS blocker is valid. Even the junk tiles at the edges of the map and trees, rocks, etc. You aren't looping an M1 killer. You're dodging a charged projectile on a short cooldown.
This is irrelevant to the topic but neither red forest has 8 pallets, they both have plenty.
Barbecue and Chile shows aura of people in the other side of the map, unless you are in the 40 meter range, but if she has starstruck, you are doomed.
Starstruck goes away, but nurse can down you easily if she catches you around or if she grabs the survivor near you. Not forgetting the new Wesker's perk that show aura of people with 24 meters while carrying a survivor. There are a lot of perk combinations to make her power stronger, to give small room for mistakes, to make a game impossible to play for the sake of a niche group of players that play this overpowered killer.
You can only play stealth if you make a build around it, but since 6.1.0 perks like Iron Will and Calm Spirit were nerfed to be basically pointless. If the nurse player has a headset, they will be able to hear the grunts of pain of survivors.
Out of record is the closest old Iron Will, but you need to be hooked and only lasts 80 seconds. I wish iron will could be 100% to make a stealth playstyle against nurse viable. I really don't care of the Out of Record effect because I use it for endurance.
I don't use pallets against nurse, but some maps are so open that they are the only resource. For example, the red forest map with a big tree in the middle. That map has only 8 - 10 pallets and 4 jungle gyms + shack. If play distance, I will probably get caught because the nurse might have double range add-ons and I will just realize it later in the match. Also, she can down me, hook me, and teleport to the other side of the map like sonic without a problem.
I meant to say the map with the big tree in the middle. I think it is red forest if I am not mistaken.
I mean all of the counter play people spout on these forums are not good or healthy counter play anyway. Be random and break LoS while holding W is not good counterplay, a survivor who has no idea what is going on could perform that. You are simply leaving it up to guessing at that point. I always say this but nurse has no right to be at her power level for the max skill involved and the counter play she has. This game no matter what role, no matter what killer, it doesn't matter the skill cap is not high compared to other games and nurse is way over hyped in terms of max skill potential. She might have the highest skill floor but she really does not lick blights foot in terms of skill ceiling.
I mean eruption is an entire beast on its own. Starstruck, run out of the TR and wait. Aura reading perks only activate conditionally and arent permanent. You have to learn to play around them. They last 7s at most. You can use them to bait out bad blinks by counting the aura perks and moving accordingly. Big maps, you split up. Red forest is pretty decent against nurse as there is a ton of high LOS blockers.
I mean they are realistic. I win against good nurses enough. I lose more than I win, but a counter is possible to a degree. Like your point is valid. You just need to play against nurse more tbh, the biggest issue is the counterplay and looping method is basically inverse to the rest of the killers and she has a low pick rate.
If you and all your team are able to dodge 6 blinks, you can win.
I don't believe in your points. Everybody says, "just wait for starstruck", "just learn how to counter aura reading perks", etc. However, how will I know exactly what aura reading perk the killer is bringing to counter? There are aura reading perks for jumping windows (all ears), for long distances (barbecue and chile), both long and close distance (darkness revealed), after picking up a survivor (Wesker's perk forgot the name), after someone unhook (floods of rage), start of the match (lethal pursuer), etc. I can't know the perk she is using unless I get outplayed or caught by it. That's the problem. Additionally, none of the killers in this game gets more benefits from this kind of perk like pro nurses and huntresses. If we have a good nurse with 2 or 3 aura reading perks, she doesn't need slow down perks anyway because nurse can down survivors faster than we can react.
Play against nurse should not be a "just run randomly like u don't know what you are doing." This sounds the most crazy thing in the world because she can just teleport to an intermediate location and catch you there. Like, if you run and make circles, then move to your left, than right, than forward... She can just blind to the central location of you circle of movements and swing making a circle.
I mean your points are just a skill issue. Sorry. You can easily identify perks. It's a bit more complicated than "just run randomly like u don't know what you are doing." But I put it in a way that is easy to digest.
What you are doing by "just run randomly like u don't know what you are doing." is breaking LOS and forcing the nurse to either blink to the spot you were or prediction blink. Removing one blink charge to gain LOS giving her only one blink to catch you and make the hit. You need to 50/50 between staying on the corner breaking LOS and continuing the loop to create ambiguity from you LOS break.
Junk tiles are your friend. Literally loop a rock or large flat platform and learn blink ranges to short stop the nurse.
Nurse needs work, but this is all you have to deal with it right now. You can either adapt to the strategy or just get stomped continually and make threads about it.
"Skill Issue" you talk as if every single person in this game would have the same amount of time to put in a game like this. Some people, like me, have 2 jobs + full time university + volunteering work. I don't have a lot of time to spend in this game to be a professional "gamer" that wastes most part of their life giving money to a gaming company.
All I want when playing survivor is just to have fun. Playing against nurse, specially during this holiday season was a disgusting experience, and I can't understand why nothing was done until now. Maybe because there are people trying to ignore the problem by just shouting to other plays "get good" rather than being humble and acknowledging the problem.
I am like the most biased survivor main out there. Check my comment history lol. You don't have time to learn counterplay and how to play against different killers. Ok, that's not the games fault. If you're not having fun then take a break. Nurse isnt going to be fixed in the next 2 weeks. Her play style has remained basically unchanged in 4 odd years.
I've acknowledged many times that nurse is a problem. Strategy exists. It's not great but its all you have to work with until something is done to fix her. If you're not good enough eventually your MMR will fall to a point where you're being matched with equal skilled killers.
What am I going to get by reading your comment history? I don't have any motivation to do that even more now reading your argumentative comments.
But, yeah, you are right. I will take a break from the game. I wish I could get my money back by doing so, but it is what it is.
If there's 1 good thing Nurse shows us, it's that you can do something to slow down the killer's progress, but you can't simply stop her like you can 90% of killers. She can trump what you do, rather than the other way around.
Or they weren’t pro and you’re not as good as you think.
Hahaha you guys are so fantastically polite and friendly. Your parents would be so proud of such amazing human being they have raised, offending people in a videogame forum. How amazing!
Why are you taking everything so personally. People are giving you advice because they don't agree that it's completely hopeless facing a nurse. Why are you taking offense to being told you're not as good as you think you are? It's not offensive. It's reality. Skill is learned in this game, its not a natural thing.
Everything you've done so far is just plug your fingers in your ear, refuse to help yourself and expect it to be fixed for you.
It will happen one day, until then; those are the tools you have to deal with the nurse.
What makes you think that it is not? Saying that other people are bad in this game in an attempt to deceive a real problem in the game that has been highlighted for years seems offensive to me. "Advice"?
This doesn't seem an advice, but a explicit provocation.
When did I refused to listen? I read your comments and I refuted some of your arguments, and I added new factors to the conversation. No one should be obligated to be a professional gamer to have a normal match against a nurse, that's my point. I recognize the existence of some tactics, but they request a lot of time and effort that most of part of the plays don't have to spend. The management of the game should benefit this segment as such.
Theres none.
All of those Break line of sight, double back, use DH, juke around the corners and so on are cute and all, but if nurse has good add ons (which she always has), each of those tactics even used correctly will just prolong the chase for average of 5 seconds.
As a former Nurse main myself who only plays rarely but still pretty much always 4k's... this is pretty solid advice overall ^^
A Nurse player is always looking to learn your playstyle from how you react... so if you do the same thing over and over they will quickly catch on and you will go down.
If you are facing a lot of Nurses I can suggest one of my favourite builds that is really good against Nurse in particular, though it can be really fun for pulling off crazy jukes against any killer and if you get RPD they are going to really struggle. The build is:
Iron Will, Distortion, Lucky Break and you can mix up the last perk with Lightweight, Off the Record or I even like Low Profile lately. Lots of Nurses run Lethal these days so Distortion will deal with that along with letting you know if they have BBQ so you can play around that too. I have taken a hit, run essentially around the Nurse so I am behind where I got hit and started healing within meters of them and if Distortion procs I know they have Nurses and I can crouch until they give up and move on.
Stealth is especially annoying to a Nurse believe me... her base movement speed is so slow she simply cannot waste a lot of time searching (Self Aware is great here) and she will have to move on and leave you to it.
But yeah, try my build and if you are really evil burn an RPD offering and you will see how insanely cheeky you can be with this combo and it definitely helps against Nurse. Though on an open map against one of the tiny few who are actual gods with Nurse... yeah its still gonna be rough
Thank you very much! I will keep that in mind. I hate using stealth builds because I like gen rush builds, but they are inconsistent against nurse because I play solo. Play solo with a gen rush build is kind of tough because I don't know how much time my teammates can spend in a chase or maybe if the nurse has the legion's gen perk (I forgot its name). Thanks! ❤️
Yeah I hear you and with the current Eruption meta rushing gens is even more popular. Which brings me to making special mention of another good piece of advice for Nurse but actually all killers...
Do NOT group up on gens but instead split up to opposite ends of the map so pressure is everywhere. This forces Nurse to have to cross the map constantly and if you play quite stealthy it can waste a LOT of time for her. This is actually good advice for any killer as they don't get to disrupt 2 survivors for the price of 1 but it also avoids 3 gen situations, along with countering killers like Legion that benefit greatly from you all being in the same general area.
That isn't to say if you all spawn together by a gen you should not get as much progress as possible instead of running all over the map to find another gen... but splitting pressure is very strong.
Just a warning though, playing this tactic will really annoy some Nurse mains and they may retaliate by camping and tunnelling pretty aggressively
Most important: Split up and don't DC / #########. From here it's just training.
You're not doomed if she has BBQ and you ran early enough even if she has Starstruck. Can you make it 15 seconds in a chase without being hit? Probably. If you're running early enough, that's how much time is left on Starstruck by the time she hooks and catches up to you.
Regarding Awakened Awareness, again, there's no reason to be within 24 meters of a pickup. Run away. There's no upside to being that close. Get out of there. Spacing is the #1 concept public match survivors struggle with.
That only works on the doctor.
Discordance. Absolutely banging perk.
Nurse counterplay is killing yourself on hook then coming here and spam threads about nerfing Nurse.
Maybe one day BHVR will actually you know,listen to the community.
I have no empaty for this killer and I do not wanna play againts her ever,matches are boring and no matter how good you play,it still feels like its not enough for a killer that all she has to do is blink on you then you go down.
"You're not doomed if she has BBQ and you ran early enough even if she has Starstruck."
- Against a good nurse, yes, you are still in trouble. One of the best kind of perks for a killer like this is aura reading perks. They show the exact location of a survivor, what can be used by a nurse to further teleport to their location in matter of seconds. I used BBQ as an example of this category. Starstruck + Agitation + BBQ + Lethal, Wesker's Aura Reading Perk or any other aura reading perk can be a strong build to go against, specially in indoor maps.
"Can you make it 15 seconds in a chase without being hit? Probably. If you're running early enough, that's how much time is left on Starstruck by the time she hooks and catches up to you."
15 seconds without being hit against nurse? Well, more like not if the player is a good nurse and has double range add-ons.
"Regarding Awakened Awareness, again, there's no reason to be within 24 meters of a pickup."
Yes, there is. Flashlight saves is the reason. Sometimes people are doing gens nearby, other people are booming totems, other people are just unfortunately close to the area.
"Run away. There's no upside to being that close. Get out of there. Spacing is the #1 concept public match survivors struggle with."
Well, sometimes is not about spacing, but about to focus on objectives. Doing gens in a area might be crucial to a possible three gen break strategy.
That's true, but the fact that you still make noise while injured with Iron Will is the worst. I would use that perk, if I had a 100% Iron Will.
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If the Nurse player has more experience and has put in more work than you, you deserve to lose. Period. The day that someone who barely plays this game is able to compete and win against people that have put in work is the day that I uninstall. You aren’t entitled to feel competitive against veteran players.
75% is still extremely effective. Hard to hear that over the normal game sounds. The one that bugs me is no mither. THAT perk should definitely totally muffle grunts of pain.
No, it is not. I play on console with a headset, and I can very much listen to survivors breathing, groaning, etc. (Really). I play as clown most of the time, and I can hear them near me even with iron will. However, I totally support your argument about buff no middle. It is such a crazy perk.
try shift+W
Same here, I don't see iron will much weirdly. But I catch out so many survs from their grunts it's unreal. It did work pretty well for me though, used it to get the locker hiding achievement alongside quick and quiet. Pulled of some very cheeky escapes with it. Lol
Okay! 👍
*Proceeds to get hit by a double range add-ons*
skill issiue
Weren't you just complaining about somebody saying perhaps you aren't as good as you think you are and throwing shade a couple posts back?
As this has devolved quite quickly into attacks on one another, I'm going to go ahead and close this thread here. Please remember, by no means does everyone have to agree on something, but all this is asked is to keep disagreements civil and respectful. Thank you.