Genrushing is still completely out of control.
Take a look at these survivor builds. They were done with repairing all gens in five minutes or so.
It's abundantly clear that survivors still have access to gamebreaking builds which invalidate any hope the killer could have at fullfilling his own objective. Now stack these odds with an extremely survivor sided map (Ormond) and voice comms/SWF and the game becomes entirely unwinnable.
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Killers complaining about no mither. Now I seen it all.
So if it's SWF, just accept the loss?
You do realize survivors with 1 health state can still loop really well? Franklin's does what against that exactly? How do you pressure the gens with 4 gen rushers without the ability to slug them because they've got No Mither? So many unasked questions y'all have.
And he's supposed to just assume they don't have DS or OTR? And as if you can't loop or something if you don't have an exhaustion perk. The biggest thing he wasn't allowed to do was slugging, because they all had No Mither. So what is he supposed to do for pressure?
Wow, you or your team must have really let that gen go. Doesn't really happen against survivors who stop gens from regressing, or who don't give constant downs to the killer. The OP is talking about those kinds of survivors, not yours.
Any other disproven talking points?
You were playing one of the weakest Killers that has pressure issues with only 1 perk to help with it... now imagine if you were playing Nurse? Or had better perks at least? Wouldn't Oni of ate those No Mithers up? In other words, you kind of walked straight into that one.
So just play an M1 killer and expect to win? Not happening.
I know pigs will fly before you do but I hope to see you make a similar post when someone rushes to the forums and complains about facing a strong “edge case” Nurse they just lost to.
This was not a genrush problem but more a SWF problem.
SWF doesn't give any advantages, my favorite content creators said so!
Nah, they would have to post 4 Survivors with dumb meme builds like 4 No Mithers with Circle of Healing, Self Care, and Botany Knowledge against a meta Nurse to = this Trapper one. Nurse in general will just slaughter most teams without any care about what they brought if the Nurse has any experience. Trapper is already on the weak side and that build wasn't helping in this case. Then they just happened to go against hyper sweat team on top of that.
They are using 4 No Mithers, without even a single exhaustion perk. You could literally facecamp the first survivor you down and walk out with a 2k or more. Seems like you misplayed a lot.
Run a better build for starters. Agitation/Mad Grit/Franklins is a complete meme against a decent group. Trapper without Corrupt Intervention is a throw pick.
And if a killer is struggling to generate chase pressure against 4 Broken survivors without exhaustion perks, the problem isn't the survivor loadouts. Doesn't matter what map it is. Chases should be ending very quickly if the killer is playing well
4 toolboxes, 4 No Mithers, and gens probably go quickly early game. That should give a killer a very good idea about their builds and give them some information to act accordingly.
I was talking about the killer, not the build. Still forced to take meta to stand a chance. Since when does survivors going down fast mean they're losing? Not that they were going down fast, but that wouldn't stop the gens from going insanely fast. Blocked gens won't slow that down either. And we're supposed to just assume that if gens go quick, they have full gen rush builds with no anti-tunnel or exhaustion perks? There's no way that even experienced killers could guess that. Come on.
Full No Mither squad with no exhaustion perks at all, and you’re complaining? 🤣 You also brought a meme perk, meme offering, and very weak add-ons on the arguably weakest killer.. so surely the win wasn’t that important to you?
Neither of us has seen the game in the question. I'm speculating off of a screenshot just like everyone else is. All I can do is give my opinion as an experienced killer. You have multiple options for a 3 gen on Ormond, survivors with no exhaustion perks (fairly easy to identify within your first two chases), and every survivor is Broken. That is carte blanche to camp right there. I'm just saying how I would play it. Especially with Deadlock. I'm of the opinion that it's a perfectly winnable game with a better build and a good strategy. Others think differently.
Except that such games as Nurse are no edge cases. Once you picked up Nurse you will win against the majority of Survivors you encounter and it is not that hard to learn her.
Even myself, who is not that good with her, win way more games than I lose as her. And I play without Slowdown and without Add Ons. If I would add in those I would probably win even more. As a complete average Nurse player.
As you can see, I faced a very similar SWF with the intention of messing with me. A sabo squad with a Midwich offering, but I utterly destroyed them with trapper. These are the most fun games imo. I love facing SWF’s, buff solo Q imo.
You acutally made me laugh! Thx! I appreciate!
It's literally the same for survivors. Once you learn how to play, get a good team and play efficiently, you will win against most killers. I myself am bad at looping and playing survivor in general, yet I can waste most killers time just by equipping Windows of opportunity and running from gens when I see them coming from a distance.
The main difference between killers and survivors is that there are just a lot more survivors who are terrible at this game.
Well, kind of the problem here is a balance issue.
True, against a slow, methodological killer like trapper this is difficult to win against, although you could arguably have went on to chase them directly rather than playing a normal trapper game. Might have worked.
However, certain killers, such as nurse, blight, spirit, heck even wraith, could have slaughtered them since they Excell at getting in that first hit, so reducing repair efficiency, in this scenario could have easily led to a hopeless game for the survivors.
Naturally the solution would be to adjust killers to have a similar degree of viability against different situations by the application of variable game styles (also solo queue).
Also naturally, this is extremely difficult to do, to the point that I don't think anyone, anywhere even knows how to do it, certainly not me, so it's unlikely we ever get to see this. It's a deep seethed problem.
My advice? Accept that there simply is a degree of entropy to this game, that adds a level of unpredictability and varying potential to each side of every trial.
Sometimes you might get an easy game due to the nature of the killer and your build (4 medkit squad against my plague, lol) , sometimes you might receive a fair challenge and might or may not do well and sometimes you will face the absolute worst scenario with different factors stacked against you and its up to you to give up, get annoyed or try and embrace the challenge knowing that you will probably lose anyway.
And you know what? IMHO, this is not such a bad thing. I can understand the allure of a perfectly balanced game, every match a delicate balance of skill expression, but in its entropy, dead by daylight has gifted me with moments of ridiculous implausibility that are highly enjoyable and entertaining.
This is what keeps every trial off the realm of boredom and sameness for me. LOL didn't have this for me for this very same reason. You almost always could tell from minute 2 if you were going to win or lose on your lane. From minute 4 you knew the outcome of the game.
Was this fair? Very. Was it fun? For me, it wasn't. Win or lose I found no thrill. And in DBD, I do.
My 2 cents, take what you will. Or not.
Much like sweaty 4man SWF, barely anyone plays Nurse, thus she is not a problem worth addressing.
Its always a tough balancing act. On one hand, doing gens is the premier survivor objective, but on the other hand so is killing off the survivors. The sweet spot for a fun game lies somewhere in the middle, where you chase the survivors around, hook everyone a couple of times, while they slowly whittle down the gens.
Most games sooner then later favor one of the two sides and sadly rarely keep thus balanced till the end. Thats why I think that a catchup mechanic would help a lot, ie buff the side with the worse ratio of hook states vs gens done. People always balk against such a catch up mechanic, stating things like "wow, so I get punished for playing well?" or "yeah cool, reward the other side for playing badly and not doing their job".
The 6.1 patch showed that buffing alone sadly won't keep killers from tunneling, but often tunneling is an expression of desperation when the game is slipping from the killers hands and they need to quickly delete a player in order to regain some semblance of control. The stick can't be always employed, sometimes you also need a carrot. Make spreading hooks and not tunneling worthwhile while also not letting the killer sabotage themselves by not tunneling a survivor.
In most games the first sacrifice happens at the 3 gens mark. If the survivors manage to do 3 gens while all four are still alive and kicking, I don`t know, make all gens break down until spare parts on the maps have been found (you could make this an alternative use for brand new parts, ie skip this search for one gen if you didnt`t use the parts up in order to slam a gen). And if a survivor gets sacrificed at 5 or 4 gens remaining make the one gen pop.
Last game with the Clown I had just such a match on Ormont. I was doing reasonable fast chases and by the time I downed my third survivor the third gen popped. I then tunneled the recently hooked survivor hard out of the game. That wasn't nice for sure, but what other option did I have? Patroling Ormont from one side to the other, keeping the last 5 gens save and sound while spreading hooks? Yeah, well... so I tunneled that poor Mikaela out as hard as I could and then focused on another survivor. This way I could barely turn the game around and it ended with a 3k and hatch escape at 1 gen with the last gen being at least 90% done, if not 95%. Without tunneling this would probably had ended in a 4E. I actually hate sweating it like that, because this will just lead to more sweaty matches in the future ... but on the other hand I don`t like getting stomped.
Get smoked bro. You brought a golf cart to Nascar.
Barely anyone plays Nurse? If I get below 5 Nurse-games during one playing session, I am already wondering if I died often enough to be in Potato-MMR again. Nurse is the second-most Killer I go against after Wesker.
If you are not decent enough to at least kill 1 or 2 I guess
There's no guaranteeing kills in this game, absolutely not. Even still, just 1 or 2 max? It speaks to how OP SWF is.
Yeah but whats the answer to that? Nerf survivors to make solo q even more miserable?
There is no answer. The game is designed around solo q. SWF is also just a small percentage of players anyways.
Thats why you should just move on. What "losing" a game will do to you? It should do nothing.
This is what i am saying all the time, game is so heavy on survivor side, its so boring to play in high elo. its so so bad
A good balance can stop this
SWF is not a small amount of players. The devs said way before 6.1 that at least a 2 man makes up 54% of games and that's certainly more now after the patch
Your problem is, you tried winning with trapper.
Yeah, but 4 man SWF death squads are much rarer then people sometimes make them to be. Most SWFs are 2 man duos of just friends hanging out, doing gens, helping each other out and sometimes trying some meme build together. You get the occasional toxic duo, but this are rare. A lot of Twitch players are 3 man SWFs with one random or a full 4 man SWF, and while this are often good players and a fair amount of them play toxic for views, only a small percentage of them are really that what you would call a seal team.
The real 4 man SWF death squads aren't that high of an occurence, but I would still want to see after a match who was in a SWF with whom. I think that this would help with both: peeps hiding behind SWFs and claiming that they were all solos and just randomly together and seeing how many SWFs are actually in games that you as the killer totally dominated and stomped.
Agreed on showing it after the game. I've apparently never played against a SWF in my life because not one person I've asked just goes "yeah we were SWF" its always "but I was solo". They know how busted SWF is
buff killers
make solo q even more atrocious
Where are the sources?
Also, queueing up together without coms is not SWF. There is no way they can know whoever is just playing together or who is with voice chat
This is why survivors need another objective.
When their entire objective is 1 thing, they can create entire builds for it, all the defense perks are being made basekit.
What these people would do is change it with loadout at the last second
Technically Franklin's doesn't help much against toolboxes since 99% of survivors just use it at the first gen they find.
I would like to see any of the supposedly 'high MMR/tournament players' that say they complain about Nurse 'but that's okay because they also feel SWF is broken' actually post in any of the threads about SWF instead of just incessantly complaining about Nurse in every thread they write in (regardless of if the thread topic even has anything to do with Nurse).
They are busted because majority of people here are newbies, and DBD is balanced around those players, so when you get a good SWF team you stand no chance, because game favor survivors hard in this game.
The best way to utilize toolboxes I found requires a bit of panache and self-restraint: if you aren't the chosen one who gets into the killers first chase, then you can usually finish the first gen in peace, and with some luck someone else will soon follow up with gen 2.
Slamming gen 3 in the middle of the map can be really valuable, and this is when the toolbox shines the brightest. But its inherently dangerous, as you might get downed and even killed, before ever getting any value out of it. But its worth keeping in the back of the mind. The ultra chad move is using your BNP for the last gen.
They won't because they know BHVR won't do anything to SWF. They've said as much already, so there is little point.
As much as it sucks, SWF draws players in. Killers are the fodder for survivors; BHVR only needs to keep around 1 killer player for every 4 survivor players, so it's in their financial best interests to ensure that SWF players have the best experience and killer players have only a good enough experience not to leave the game.
Every so often, killers get a killer-sided patch, enough to make us think that BHVR cares about our experience and hopeful for the future, only to watch as they continue doing nothing to address the underlying concerns about e.g. maps. It's exactly the same situation as Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown, yanking it away just before he kicks it.
It would be comical if it weren't so depressing.
You keep saying SWF is a small percentage anyway, which if you look at my matches it definitely isn't, to avoid talking about how OP it is. There is a way to balance for solo and SWF simultaneously. Give SWF a gen debuff, because that's the #1 thing that is different between solos and SWF. They should not be able to coordinate body blocks while coordinating faster gen speed, while also demanding that they never get nerfed because solo, which they don't play, exists alongside them.
Was the trial on Midwich?
Id say you where unlucky with your choice of killer, because if you where anyone else (except maybe plague), id think there would have been a chance you played "sweaty"
"Give SWF a gen debuff"
There is no way the game knows if a team is SWF
Queueing up together is not SWF
No i disagree, with debuffing SWF this would make the game unplayable for the common SWF, the real issue is spawns
In order to queue together you have to be in a party which means SWF
lol you're literally playing the worse killer in the game on the worse map for him in the game vs survivors who are bringing the most op items on their side in the game. If you bring weak stuff into the game you're gonna have to accept that you're gonna lose some matches that you simply have no power to stop.
This isn't a "muh genrushing problem" This situation can easily be flipped to the survivors POV if they killer brought the sweatiest build they can bring