Killers are the ones who should get base kit perks, not survivors...
So let me get this straight...
Survivors get free unbreakable every 45 seconds because in 1 in 20 games a Nurse might slug 4 people to end the game early (happens mostly against 4-man overly altruistic SWF which is good). First off, how does that even happen? Secondly, if you got slugged as 4 men, you probably deserved to lose...
Meanwhile, killers literally have to run gen regression perks on every build to even to have a chance to win a game. That is irrespectively on how they play. It's so prelavant/needed for most of the killers that you might even call it base kit at this point.
So why is gen regression/gen slowdown not part of the killer's base kit considering that it's basically a must nowadays to have a chance to win the game?
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IF it was not killer sided, why did the kill rate rise by 8%? That patch was designed to increase kill rate, and did it, and you say it wasnt killer sided?
Maybe get a hold on the games basic concepts before posting false statements?
My issue with that is how often do you run into those killers? Also if knock out is the problem just nerf or change knockout? Meanwhile load into the wrong map as a mid to low tier killer and you may have lost before you even got to play
Maybe read patch notes. The 61 % is applicable to 6.10, we've already had several killer's nerfs and (strong) survivor buffs since then.
First of all, Survivors aren't getting the basekit unbreakable because of nurse. They're receiving it because bhvr knows killers would be encouraged to slug more with the new basekit Mori rework. Second, killers have been receiving basekit perks like tier one of brutal strength and stbfl, and a mini pop (emphasis on mini). Bhvr obviously isn't done with buffing killers and the Mori rework is still a work in progress.
Because hook suicides do not get thrown out and count as normal kills, which also increases the liklihood of the other 1-3 dying significantly. Based on their current judgement metrics, you have to assume that the final result will be lower (by an unknown amount) than the balance would imply based on its end results. They throw out matches where people DC for a reason, but inexplicably refuse to put a similar consideration on their own sanctioned form of ragequitting. There's a reason they constantly say not to use those stats for balance discussion, despite their weird insistance of throwing them out just before talking about balance.
I feel like you may have quoted the wrong person, but anyway. Maps are an entirely separate issue and are the reason I feel relatively confident saying that all killer needs in terms of basekit adjustements are regression changes. Maps are the real problem causing such a massive balance discrepancy and they need to be addressed ASAP, but this is entirely separate from basekit unbreakable, different perks, etc.
So, are you telling me if someone dies on hook, the killer didn´t kill him?
I did quote the wrong person and I cant seem to fix it sorry. But thats the point isn't it survivors are getting perks that fix core flaws as basekit, why cant killers have the same?
First of all, Survivors aren't getting the basekit unbreakable because of nurse.
How many killers can slug 3-4 people effectively except Nurse? You're lucky to get two (maybe except blight) If it's not because of Nurse, then it's just a general buff for survivors without logical reason.
They're receiving it because bhvr knows killers would be encouraged to slug more with the new basekit Mori rework.
Good luck slugging 4 people on everyone except Nurse/Blight. The survivors have to be HORRIBLE and literally throw themselves into you. Literally would happen maybe 1 in 50 games where you can slug 4 people as any other than top 2 killers. And if they got slugged like that, they absolutely deserved to lose.
Second, killers have been receiving basekit perks like tier one of brutal strength and stbfl, and a mini pop (emphasis on mini)
Not comparable with base kit bt + unbreakable. Not even close.
and the Mori rework is still a work in progress.
Mori at end of the game is irrelevant, the killer has won the game by then. It's a pure cinematic, nothing more. Mori offerings do nothing except small BP gain.
No, but I AM telling you that if someone throws themselves out of the match at 35 seconds in, it is effectively a 1v3 and not a 1v4, which has completely different balance considerations that the game very clearly is not designed for. It is also the exact reason why DCs nullify results in regards to their internal stat tracking.
Edit: Actually, they even used to load matches in with 1-3 survivors and just reduce the number of gens required when it happened. There are very good reasons why it doesnt work that way anymore.
But it IS the reality of this game that this happens time and again, and you should account for it, and the reasons why it happens.
Its not the reality because of balance, its because people sabotage other people's games. If nothing else, it just makes a stronger case for punishing ragequitters, which has a very unfortunate affect on their cheating epidemic situation.
This is why the appropriate solution is to pretend those games never happened in terms of stat tracking, which again, is currently inconsistent with how they do it making their statistics inherently corrupted. They're estimates, not hard facts.
Yet that was the patch you were refering to when i answered you, wasnt it?
Quote: "Disagree heavily. The so-called "killer patch" was a neutral patch at best. Perks on both sides got nerfed/changed. Faster pallet breaking speed/faster recovery is a placebo in most cases. DH is in similar strength as old DH (at least in high MMR). M1 killers are still in the garbage can."
If i misread it, i appoligise, which patch were you refering with that then?
The 45s is a killer buff the majority of the time for legitimate gameplay, because it would take 30s to recover before. That gives you a 50% buff to the slug duration before you need to pick up. If you get 4 man slugged now Survivors hard lose, it ends the match, and the Mori animation plays on the last downed Survivor.
I play intel and hard lethality and can win games little to no problem. To practice how to do that I would recommend OhTofu's old autopilot/brainless Bubba build, where you bring Enduring/Spirit Fury/Undying/Crowd Control. I prefer Bamboozle to Undying but to each their own. You just seek out chases and with oppressive energy you down people faster than they can rescue and pop gens. After that basic chicken dinner you can try the pepper of Bamboozle, and expand to different dishes like the Salmon of wallhacks Ghostie (Lethal Pursuer/Floods of Rage/Darkness Revealed/BBQ with the Iri add-on for revealing all when you down a fully stalked person, and the I'm All Ears add-on) to keep everyone stalked and instadownable.
Have to run regression? Gen regression perks are the equivalent of Survivor true 2nd chance perks like DH. Stacking them is smol gendered parts energy to use a colloquial term.
That moment when you are thankful some people aren't part of the development team. Yikes
Why are you saying this to me? I literally just said killers don’t need more buffs.
61% is more of their target than 50% is, also as per the same devs, so neither does yours.
You not understanding the basics just proves to me you're either willfully ignorant or just want to argue for argument sake.
I'm agreeing with you.
Bloodlust and window blockers were added because of infinites and egc was add to stop survivors from taking the game hostage at the end.
Survivor goes down at a pallet with another survivor around? Survivor goes down in open and someone had a flashlight. What do you do if not slug?
Killers already have a mini STBFL and mini Brutal Strength basekit. Killers already got some good buffs the last couple of patches, so it's time that survivors get something.
Basekit Unbreakable isn't that bad. 45 seconds is a long time and it's more than enough time to pick up a survivor after checking your surroundings (If they're at a pallet, someone's trying to flashlight save, Etc). Unbreakable (the perk) should only be able to be used once though since it's 22 seconds and having that constantly can become an issue
Which is also their target, which means that its where it should be. That means anything lower is below their expectation. This is all going off of their number as fact and not estimate, of course.
61% is not a concrete number. There are blatantly ignored variables with high correlation to inflating that number. It is literally a high estimate, which means that the actual value when specifically factoring balance has to be lower by within x margin.
In terms of balance and no statistically manipulating events, it is an unknown amount lower than 61. That means that if 61 is indeed around their target, the current status quo is actually under where it is supposed to be by an unknown amount. This is exactly why they say NOT to use these statistics the way you currently are. Just like how you could claim Nurse is the weakest killer if you ignore the skill floor variable.
It has been stated multiple times when clarifying their 2E/2K stance that that outcome distinction is specifically due to the LCD of outcomes being in 25% breakdowns, and that they want a number higher than that but not as high as 1E/3K. That means that something in the high 50's to mid 60's is exactly within their target.
Survivors could spawn in on the hook and you’ll still have killers proudly saying they’re weak lmfao
I played just 3 matches with wraith without any gen perk just chase. I won all these games well one game was 2K with 10 hooks but I let last two go. But you can't win every game this way ofcourse but most you can.
Things like ragequitting on hook significantly increasing the kill count for a given match, for one. It means there is a statistically relevant variable that is not accounted for in the results. I'm sorry but I can't think of a more simple way to say that.
The last time I played aginst a knock out Killer is three years ago. The buffs to Killers are great, but if you look at the Perks of the Killers you will see the Survivor Perks are stronger. After the perk rework the killer meta has dyed. If you look at the survivors you will see the same perks and some others, whitch are even stronger. Nearly all of the old survivor meta is still meta.
It's ironic that some people would consider this to be....... crying.
So if you knock someone down in a pallet and you see someone near the pallet, you would just pick up the survivor. If all survivors in pallets go down and the others are paying attention, then you can proudly say that you have zero hooks because you have the skill to always pick up survivors directly. You're right, losing has a lot to do with skill.
If you were good at chases they wouldnt have time to make gens? i dont run any gen defense, its boring
Inb4 dead hard is made basekit
Send me a VOD of you playing your average killer match, we'll see what survivors you go against and what is your killer skill. I doubt it's high, but who knows, you might be one of the brightest DBD players to play the game who doesn't need anti-gen perks to consistently win the game at high MMR. The prodigy.
Can we please stop, at least without irony, referring to the changes made in the summer as “mini pop”, “mini brutal”, “mini STBFL” etc etc. These were minor QOL buffs and do not compare to tier 3 perks being made base-kit. Whilst the base-kit UB will take longer to activate, the fact it’s unlimited balances that out.
The most egregious and disingenuous of all these comparisons is “mini pop” which is just laughable. Kicking gens without Gen kicking perks before the update was worse than pointless. Now, without perks, it’s graduated from worse than pointless to just about worth your time if you’re lost for things to do but really it’s still not going to do much.
This is not a point about whether these perks should or should not be base-kit. But please stop making ludicrous false equivalencies and revealing your own biases. You discredit any point you’re trying to make when you do this.
Completely agreed. It's hilarious that people say 2.5 % regression (which takes 2 seconds to kick + time to get to gen) is considered "mini pop". 2 stacks are mini STBFL. Talk about massive exaggeration...
I feel like the numbers don't matter and most people are just pushing the narrative "well, the killer got massively buffed".
You legit think that it Will be 61 percent If they push the most survivor sided patch in DBD history?
BT isn't healthy for the game? So, killers get to tunnel for absolute free and survivors just have to accept that?
Killers don't need more basekit buffs. Weaker killers could use buffs, but not killers as a whole.
61% is too much anyway so…
The nurse add-on was the strongest during the 61% kill rate period.
It would be nice if i knew my mmr or if you knew yours, untill then mmr is a fairytail, all i can do is go iridescence 1( with "troll" pekrs) and wait for those survivors that will make me uninstall the game ( that they never come btw). I dont remember the last time i got less than 2 survivors and one friend that saw me play uninstalled the game and he was saying the same things as you do :) you guys only repeat things you hear like mmr and crazy theories.
Bloody hell, I wish this was me. I see it quite a lot, especially on Ghostface, Hag and Wraith.
About the only outlier survivor perk I can think of is PTS (which BHVR have said they are keeping an eye on). Everything else works fine.
You can't really compare survivor perks to killer perks, as both roles are completely different. Aside from PTS (and maybe Pain Resonance on the killer side), I think perks are in a much better spot than they ever have been, and it's now a matter of buffing or reworking the terrible ones.
With the mori change killers are getting 2 perks technically nerfed. Rancor and devour. Devour still kills the survivor sure but youll have to hook them which in some scenarios will be hard. Survivor is between a pallet can't lift up due to someone or multiple survivors hanging around, thus meaning you have to slug and chase the others or risk a pallet save. Flashlight saves etc etc so yeah devour is at least in my eyes getting a nerf.
Rancor...well just straight up nerf. Cant kill the obsession anymore just 1 shot..permanent NOED on the obsession instead of just killing them off straight.
Also this UB situation will be mostly abused with good teams and good SWFs. 22 seconds to lift yourself up with UB while someone harrashes the killer or the survivor is between a pallet.
Anyways i just think its really silly that survivors keep getting full on meta perks as base while killers get 0.2 seconds faster kicks. We could use corrupted or even BBQ as base. Survivors will be carrying 6 perks soon, 2 being base while killers are still struggling with 4.
Idk It might actually be higher because doesn't bleeding out not count for killers kill % like someone dcing or the entity doing the kill at egc
Not sure if they count those in the data or not
Killers need SO MANY perks base. Agitation, Corrupt, Grim Embrace, No Way Out. JUST SOMETHING that keeps the killer invested and helps them not get annihilated and rewards hooks and rewards going for multiple people. You could give killers 20 perks base and they STILL wouldn't hold a candle to efficient survivors who brought in nothing.
As a person who plays both sides I don't think those perks are a must to win the game unless you are dealing with a gen rush swf group
Now I do think that they could buff the kick regression that people call the "mini pop" from 2.5 to 5
Return corrupt to it's original state
Make gens 100 seconds to complete
Also just remove the Mori offerings or change the requirements to get the bonus because it is just a crappier version of survivor pudding with how they have it in the notes
slightly nerf stakeout+hyperfocus not a big one but make it enough to not make gens fly by solo
Survivors I believe did need these 2 perks to be base kit when killers have easy access to slugging tunneling and camping without the need of a perk
In my opinion they should adjust ub basekit to 50-55 seconds and decrease the ub perk to 40% at tier 3
All in all we will just have to wait and see how bad it is during the ptb and open release for these changes
I would have to disagree with this post but I do agree with a mini agitation basekit for killers not to much but enough to counter boil over users like maybe 2% as basekit and boosted to 20% with the perk
Every thing is fine sure? Hyperfocus and Steakout solo Survivor doing a gen in 50 secons. Is this is fine? The Killer has 4 Perks and the Survivor 16 after Bt base and the new Ub basekit it will be 4 Perks vs 24. This means on Killerperk should be able to counter six Survivor Perks, but this isn't the case. The Devs dont think about this. An exaple: "Boons are to powerfull" the Answer from the devs new Killer perk that allows you to break a Boon Totem. So what do we have. As the Killer you give one of 4 Killer Perkslots against one Perkslot, out of 16 of the Survivors. This sems not fair for me.
You can look at the Perks of both Sides and you will see Survivor Perks are way better than Killerperks.
The basekit perks survivors got are patch-ups for problems in the game's design. Problems that have been exploited to create the camping/tunneling/slugging issue. The only killer perks, off the top of my head, that are similar in function are Lightborn and Corrupt Intervention.
I'd suggest giving killers temporary blind immunity after being blinded, and for the farthest three gens from the killer getting blocked for X seconds at the start of the match.
EDIT: Also, maybe the X second CI baseline should be variable per killer. Nurse gets 5 seconds, Trapper gets 30, for example.
Agitation base? Only if basement is removed. Don't much fancy the idea of being put in the basement every game. 😂