Nurse Direction ?
It is no secret that Nurse is balanced on a pin's tip.
Her power circumvents the conventions of the game, making many killer perks useless to bring on her - and many survivor perks useless to bring against her.
She's extremely punishing to learn, and there's a fine line between those who can end a survivor team quickly and those who must 'git gud' and improve on their Nurse skills. Likewise, survivors that have grown comfortable with the conventions of the game can often find themselves in the middle of a rude awakening as they struggle to contend with this extremely unique killer.
She really does not need a rework, she's in a very strange place as-is.
But here's a question I'd love to see some answers to:
What direction should she go in if she had to move?
Does she need to stay focused on being straightforward and punishing to play for newer players?
Does she need to be slightly less as deadly in the hands of a master and slightly more approachable?
Should she start the match super weak and become a snowball machine (Oni, Meyers, etc.) ?
Or should she start off strong and fall off as the match progresses (Legion, Ghostface, etc.) ?
Should she become louder and far easier to spot?
Should she become stealthy?
Or should the only changes be considered be animation and modeling updates?
Why or why not?
I'd love to hear what the community feels about our favorite RN of the fog!
There are many different opinion on this killer, and I want to hear them all.
Comments
Making her weak line oni at beginning could work but then should she has instadown then when she gets her blinks... That would at least change that she would have to run loops as m1 killer first but how she would get her power? stalking or collecting something? But for real I think she is pretty fine maybe her add ons need some nerf idk.
She’s in a spot of perfect design basekit, her only problems are distance addons and three blinks.
Honestly I think everything about nurse is fine.
Agreed she's fine, I enjoy using her but I absolutely suck. Time to git gud lol
I enjoy reading the constant patting each other's shoulders "she's perfect... ", "Hell yeah man isn't she" of extremely biased groups here.
Well, Nurse is undoubtedly broken and by far the most unbalanced killer of the rooster. She ignores every game mechanic, and her trade offs are very small compared. Objectively speaking, when a player is experienced enough as her, and that doesn't take nearly as much as some people like claiming, she dominates consistently, no matter the skill of the players playing against her. Sure, I can run a Nurse for a very long time if the map is decent enough, but in equal circumstances, even if they're worse of a player than I am, she can catchup and make up for mistakes in 2 blinks in a disproportionate way.
She needs to have a more punishing exhaustion after missing her power, her blinks need a longer cooldown in between, and her broken addons need to be completely reworked. I'm fine with a killer being very strong if the player is very good. I'm not fine however with playing a game in which my input doesn't matter, and I just have to pray for RNG to help me. "Maybe she makes a mistake, maybe I'm lucky with the map, hopefully she's bad...". That's bad design. That's boring. I don't want pitty or luck to help me out of a situation, I want to play a game, not a spinning wheel.
Against equally skilled survivors, Nurse isn’t as strong as you claim. Yes, she’s the strongest killer, but survivors who know how to play the game can buy enough time for their teammates to rush through gens and leave. Nurses only completely dominates against average and potato survivors.
You might argue “well, the good survivors are in a minority and she should be balanced to face against the majority” and I would ask why? Why should a killer be made weaker, and more difficult to play for killer players? Why is it always “killers should just git gud” while having the game always cater towards survivors? It’s okay for killers to have a few strong options to play against the top survivors.
Finally, the way you describe how the game play is against Nurse is exactly how it felt when I used to play Killer. It was like constantly running on a spinning wheel, just waiting for the survivor to make a mistake or hoping I’d get lucky or that they’re just bad.
If we take your advice and nerf the Nurse for those reasons, then we should nerf all the strong loops in the game since they’re boring for killers.
That is simply not true. "Good" survivors won't last against a good Nurse in most maps. I'm not arguing you might have "god tier" survivors running around very good Nurses. How many of those exist? one? ten? twenty? fifty? out of thousands.
Your argument about balancing Nurse around a minority is invalid, for the simple reason that you will always get a survivor, no matter how good they are at the game, in time. Also that survivor relies on their team for objectives, while you only rely as a Nurse on yourself. It is widely known the kill rate universally is well beyond 3 kills, meaning most games end in a 3 or 4k, because 99% of the teams are just average survivors that don't know how to play optimally.
Should the game be balanced around 99% of the playerbase? Absolutely yes.
You’ve obviously never seen good survivors then. Plenty of tournament videos on YouTube, help yourself. If there are few “god-tier” survivors then I’m willing to bet there are just as many “god tier” Nurses.
Killer is always supposed to get the Survivor in time, yet, many of the M1 killers can’t with how fast gens go if the team splits up at the start of the game, especially with the amount of strong loops there are on most maps. They usually have to wait until the Survivor screws up or are out of resources, by which time the gens should be done if the team had more than two brain cells.
Game should be balanced for everyone, the potatoes, the average players and the high level players. No one should be excluded.
Tournaments =/ real matches. It's representative of nothing.
I've been around since the 2016 beta... I'm going to assume I have seen my fair share of very good, good, bad, and very bad survivors.
All this argument aside, I do not think they will touch her. She's the safe haven for killers that want to 4k every match regardless of the survivors they're facing.
Is it the nurse's fault that the survivors don't make the effort to learn how to play against her, preferring to stick to the endless "Shack // LT // Jungle Gym // Palet loops" ?
She ASMR's Survivors to get ho**y until the power gauge is filled.
Then she can blink with instadowns.
*cough* balanced.
Y’know. If you want people to actually consider your claims that Nurse overperforms as anything other than opinionated nonsense, you should probably give actual meaningful evidence to back them up.
Another day, another thread asking for a nurse nerf. As usual :
You've literally summed up almost every Nurse thread I've ever seen. The moment we say, "If it's so easy, if destroying survivors is just a Nurse thing, go pilot her and show us."
And it's crickets. Crickets or more strawmen, every time.
You ask for the world when most of the forum goers can't even provide cohesive arguments.
Hey.. I’m a survivor main and don’t want them to change Nurse (just range add-on slight nerfs). These heathen don’t speak for all of us! ☹️
Just to clarify, I don't believe she should be nerfed - nor do i recall asking for such.
I just want to hear everyone's honest opinion
Just wanted to make sure that much was understood - thank you for sharing yours, though!
collecting grunts of pain, maybe?
edit: starting off, maybe nurse could have a long blink recharge. As she collected grunts of pain, her blink recharge would decrease.
That's a creative thought!
Maybe Susie could pull the very breath out of a survivor when she downs them - making her more powerful with every down that she attains, which also plays into her hyper aggressive snowball aspect of consecutive downs.
My take on the entire Nurse debate as a Nurse main is that she is the only killer where you have to use your power perfectly to win. And that is what makes her more than fair
Blight's power is probably hardest to master but in the end, his speed is 115 and he's an old man with a stick and can just loop as a normal m1 killer and down people without using all the rushes since survivors need to know how to loop or just pre-drop pallets and can last long enough for the team to smash the gens.
There are matches where I get bodied and in most cases it's because the survivors were smart enough to capitalize on the mistakes I made, which in most cases are missed blinks or wrong reads
Making a mistake as Nurse without the range add ons feels super punishing, people these days know how to hold w and run to the COH range to heal.
Also, people can play sneaky and just hide and walking around as Nurse searching for them feels like torture sometimes.
When you do not miss your blinks and you are just downing people one after the other feels super awful for survivors but doing that means you have to blink perfectly every single time to pressure them.
Also let's not forget that the biggest counter to Nurse is the most popular perk in the game.
And if someone who is God at Nurse plays the match perfectly and kills the team at 5 gens...well they deserve it.
Playing perfectly as Nurse is a guaranteed 4k, but in the end, she is 1 killer in the game that has that pay off, maybe Blight but I do think that even average teams can run God-tier Blight long enough to finish the gens if they just split up.
Also this is a party asymmetrical game, people arguing over ''balance'' is kind laughable at this point
The “god tier” survivors show what is possible. There are so many false statements in your posts that I don’t know where to begin. No, in time all survivors will not improve. They would rather complain and get things nerfed, and BHVR has shown them that this is a viable approach. If we are going to balance the game to cater to scrubs, count me out. I’m not going to have my skill limited because a bunch of survivor mains with fragile egos refuse to learn. The numbers for this game continue to drop. Killers don’t support this approach.
remove, and change countrable killers basic speed 115% ->117.5%
usable abilities stay their speed, and nerf of blight movement speed to 112.5%, same speed buff for deathslinger
I understand if you want her removed, but why would you want to increase all killer movement speed b 2.5%?
What does that have to do with the nurse?
I do not support even less perks being useable on Nurse. The instadown perks have plenty of counterplay, or you'd see them way more often than they are currently seen.
I agree.
Skill should be rewarded, but misplays should be punished.
My biggest grievance as Twins is that they arguably have the highest skill ceiling in the game (unless you play like a jerk), but they're easily outdone by nurse because they get punished for good plays and bad plays.
i play both faction with same perspective on same character
nurse is level of making other characters pointless, feels bad when i played her or play agans her
and her exsistance is how possible to not take serious about physical setting of chase
most of pointless killers hits from survivors mistakes unless map favor them <- i think its most bad exp in cat and mice game,
thats why i loved old billy, sometimes i surprised by artistic angle and felt fair with his best addons+tinkerer
more goofy things possible than blight, even funny to look at him and his sounds were not rtardic
he already considered useless without his best addons in 2016-2018 of korea community
meanwhile you guys were argue with camping and tunneling should bannable (thats how emblem penalty applied)
and nurse considered as skill for majority (its before nerf,3/4blink+better range addon possible)
wm1 were not a word in here and lol i remember that words "360" "juking", we never used those words
because its not worked if you passed grey rank
angled fast vaulting, flashlight nerf, nurse dc or judgement meta (infinite stealth if possible, gone with egc) also started from here
anyway devs shouldn't look at status, this game is now console survivor vs pc killer in most matches
this checked before epic, weekend console players pumping killrate of wm1 and low tier killers
but when those non tier killers target me mostly game ends with 1kill and it feels very awkward
because they were not bad, some of them even far better than me but physically not possible if map wasn't favor them
how this silly better players had to ignore me for better results, why killers passive as this even existing and not buffed?
why they caring baby players too much? more players quitted because of grind and this unfunny passive design of most killers
also systems in game balanced too silly lets example,
if you picked billy so you having less chance than cannibal with more skill so can't hit survivor in certain structures
so had to use bloodrust? not only this bloodrust don't require to utilize with nurse,blight,spirit,artist,pyramid etc aka better easier killers
it takes miserble looong time you wasted for activate it but still it requires more timing than m2 killers
i mean...nurse and blight is not easy right?
but when you playing those you can pass "mindgames" other killers physically not possible unless survivors potatos
There’s no counter because you keep doing the same thing to nurse which doesn’t work. Using jungle gyms/pallets are obviously not going to work.
being unpredictable destroys a nurse, but of course the bias survivor main who clings to “meta perks” calls nurse OP
Skill issue tbh. Survivors use LOS blockers and learn to play against a different style of killer *impossible*
I'm going to try to be quick responding to the "She's Perfect" team as a whole:
This has a very easy explanation. The vast majority of players who play killer, won't pick Nurse. She has a very specific and "complex" (compared to the other killers) mechanic, and most players just don't want to bother with it. So, only a very low percentage of players who play killer pick her to begin with. Out of those, there are many who pick her randomly to get a daily, there are many who don't main her and perform horribly when they pick her, and that's obviously going to dramatically boost the escapes she gets.
"lOoK aT ThE wIn DaTA" Yeah. it's lower (not dramatically lower, by the way) , for the reasons I already explained.
But then let's go for killers who actually enjoy her/are experienced as her. Now, this is not a situation of "High skill = high performance = fair".
Because that makes perfect sense, nobody in their right mind would be against that, even though some of you seem to think people who disagree with you must be some sort of dumb monkeys compared to your mighty intellect. You don't have to be smart to get that. Everyone gets it. It's obvious. But this is not the situation we have with Nurse. The situation we have with Nurse is, getting to the point of knowing how to play her and how she works, because of her very nature of ignoring every basic game mechanic every other killer has to follow (collision, obstacles in between, pallets, windows, tiles, you get what I mean), automatically means there's very little window of reaction if at all for survivors. Throw her broken addons on top of that, and you have a super fast moving (blinking), super far away (crazy range and mobility), barely punished killing machine. Once you get to a certain level as her, there's very little the player can do against you. There's situations, if they get extremely lucky with the map (the game) or certain spots where she can't see ( the peer bridge in the swamp) that you can break LOS and pray she doesn't know how to handle those spots already through pure experience.
Everyone who has been around long enough knows that. Many of you who are hilariously trying to lecture me, you probably weren't even here when I started playing against Nurse and knew how to deal with her long before you pressed "install" on this game. I know what to do against her, the spots that are and are not good for her, and the only few strategies you have against any decent Nurse. But precisely because I know all too well, I know there's very little you can do in most situations, *especially as a solo queue survivor with randoms where you will spawn in the trial, count to 10 and have somebody downed and hooked*.
The issue isn't that she rewards skill with high performance, the issue is she is so strong at core that she will anihilate 99% of teams easily turning, especially solo queue matches into unplayable, pointless games. What's the point? You already know how the match will turn out most of the time, because she isn't playing against others, she plays against herself. If she is good, there's very little room for escapes. The better she is, the less room for mistakes there is. And the worse she is, yeah, her game will get more horrible for her. But, unlike other killers, she doesn't have a limit to her chase power. She can literally down everyone in a matter of seconds in different spots of the map. As I said, throw the broken addons into this, and it's just "Ah well, Nurse, let's pray either super bad or let's just get it over with and move on".
That's boring. Might as well play a single player game.
"Your skill limited", but you fail to understand, it is not your skill. You are given a tool that ignores every mechanic, that's not your skill. It takes longer to learn and it's harder sure, but it's as if I was cheating in the game, I could fly, I could teleport, and I became really good at it. "Don't limit my skill" No, you're just using a broken killer lol
I already addressed many of these arguments in my previous post. The issue isn't that her skill is rewarded accordlingly, the issue is that players who master her will get disproportionate advantage and power over everyone else, in a much higher proportion than it should, against the vast majority of the players.
Balancing the game around tournament players isn't fair for me, because as a solo player, I don't have access not even to decent players, let alone "the elite".
Also, I would -love- to see the "She's Perfect" team play against Nurse consistently. Because I'm sure, you could illustrate all of us, with your perfect understanding and execution of how to counter Nurse, that perfect, flawless, work of art.
Think the same distance add ons nulify the speed burst you get completely
Nurse is absolutely perfect, best designed killer EVER. The biggest, most beautiful killer you've ever seen! You honestly wouldn't believe how incredibly well designed she is unless you see it for yourself. And everybody loves her too.
Ill never understand why they made a teleporting killers like this. Even though Wraith isnt much of a problem in comparison i feel a cloaking killer who just walks around with high speed is toxic to lower mmr players who dont know every single loop or good at looping as a m1 is like the designers decided to make the most toxic game plays for a killer and make it a reality. Wraith I feel needs like a brand new kit of no cloak but im probably beating a big dead horse (im pretty new to the game 3 half months in) but i play enough games to see toxic creations.. I play both sides so i know whats a bit much for both survivor and killer.
Sorry if i jumped over to Wraith since i was more about a killers design. I could throw in sadako as well which I find to be a bit much and needs to be slightly slowed down as you can barely make distance with her (ignoring her lack of ani loop of course but the game shouldnt be all about that).....however, I dont see the god nurses often but when i do its freaken crazy lol. My opinion of course on my feelings on games should be longer and more methodic of stressful quick games of mindgames which is exausting to a majority.
Here you go. One of less than a handful of matches I’ve had the pleasure of playing against Nurse in the last couple months. Not sure why more people aren’t playing her, as she hands out free wins!
Me as a solo queue survivor versus Nurse with ‘the build’ - including the purple range add-on. Don’t think I was hooked once if memory serves correctly. She got a 1k. Temple of Purgation.
What I didn’t do? Loop normally, pallet camp, or be aggressively altruistic near downed survivors.
What I did? Hold M1 on gens, hold W, mind gamed.. and ultimately, survived.
Just be ready for the goal posts to move. If you escape a Nurse, they couldn't possibly have been a "good" Nurse. When discussing Nurse, all survivors are average and all Nurses are gods
Heck, I’d even take a fighting reply back at this point! No one has negatively responded once I’ve posted this match. 🤷🏼♂️
I rarely ever encounter a Nurse, and when I do, there's a 50/50 chance it's either an eldritch god or a total potato.
can we agree to at least get devs attention to fix the bug in the ranged addons? Or will she stay with that increased blink speed forever?
Cool, though I meant more a match recorded etc. Or at least parts of the match recorded (I understand people sometimes have clips not whole matches). Not so much the outcome of a random match of the equivalent of rank 20s
Aight, I’ll try to remember to record my next match against Nurse. Though not sure where you get the rank 20 idea from? I’ve been playing since 2016. Look at my devotion level. Everyone in the match had maxed out perks. What makes you suspect any of these players were new?
NURSE HAS A LOW KILL RATE she needs a buff to be in a better place
It takes skill to predict the survivor movement. I would argue that other killers actually factor in skill very little since their mechanics are so limited. It doesn’t matter how good you are when the map is full of safe loops.
Big maps need to be reduced in size, survivors need to spawn together or in pairs, and tile RNG needs an adjustment. Distance add-ons also need an adjustment as does three blinks.
I don't know who you are, but I ######### love you.
Nurse makes Freddy look like a well-designed killer.
She undoubtedly needs a rework, and I hate to say that because I think reworking killers is a bad idea most of time (look at what happened to Freddy), but I see no way to nerf her without making her suck.