What is it with BHVR and not listening to the community?
We've seen time and time again that they refuse to listen to the community, and it comes back to hurt them. SBMM, chat filter, various balance changes, LACK OF various balance changes, etc. And whenever I see something like this brought up on the forums, the discussion ends up getting closed.
For example there was a thread created about a toggle for the chat filter, and it created a good discussion with a lot of people agreeing. And what do they do? They close it.
People beg them on Q&A streams and personal developer livestreams and they are completely arrogant to the community's feedback. The community knows the game better than them, we've seen this time and time again, and yet they refuse to listen.
Why?
Comments
The community dont know what they want.
I mean, I see people complaining since years, yet still playing daily up to 4+ hours.
People addicted, they love the eternal grind, they dont mind the cheaters, they love the high which they get from unbalanced gameplay.
Why BHVR should change anything?
Community just complain, if BHVR would listen, the game would die instantly.
Also dont come with low playerbase.
What happened that resident evil players left, the player numbers just like was 1 years ago.
They can’t listen to the community on everything because we contradict eachother all the time. There is the obvious surv vs killer mentality of course but also skilled vs unskilled, casual vs competitive, cheaters vs surv/killer rule book defenders and so on.
and the devs have shown they are listening on feedback, OoO, DS, Mori, key, hatch, Spirit changes, and arguably most of killer reworks though some were overdone.
it’s just that they are slow and there is a TON that needs adjustments. Priorities (and yes also money income is important for them as a company)
They do.
What you're asking is why they don't do what the community says, and the answer to that is that it'd be both impossible to do consistently, and a pretty bad idea to even try.
There's also the fact that several long-requested changes and additions have been made. They happen slowly, but that's a different critique to them not listening at all.
they do but maybe if there where less dumb questions asking for dumb thing like seeing a male survivors genitals, it would be more noticeable.
Sometimes the community is too inept to understand why things are the way they are. The fixation on the mmr boogeyman is proof enough of that.
The community was asking for those changes for YEARS before they were done. I don't think that's called listening to the community, I think that's called being bugged about it so long for 2+ years it creeps into your subconscious.
My point is that there are genuine critiques, and yet they get ignored, downplayed, or flat out deleted.
ignored? maybe, sometimes they have to be tight lipped on certain things so we dont know if they are aware about until it pops on the stream
downplayed? like what?
deleted? no, they don't, If its deleted its because of how its was posted.
Are you sure the posts are actually closed and not moved to different sub forum - usually Feedback because that is where the post belongs, not General Discussion.
This is most recent chat filter post I've seen that says "closed" on first page of General Discussion but that's because it was moved to Feedback where it is still very much open, you can continue to comment on it there.
Downplayed like how skill based MMR, whether you like it or not, is killing this game. Ignored, like how the OoO/Blood pact bug has now been in the game for over 48 hours and nothing is being done. Deleted, like threads about this bug and discussions on it in the discord.
There's a couple of examples, for ya.
I can't link you to the deleted post because it's.. deleted.
My best example of them ignoring or downplaying things would be most questions on the Q&A livestream. I haven't watched it for a while so I can't list specifics but I remember vividly them downplaying big critiques or ignoring big questions. And no, there was nothing wrong with the wording of the deleted posts I've seen. They were just closed or deleted for no reason.
They do, sometimes. Right now there are some instances that they have been listening... Like fixing Nurse, fixing Boil Over after horribly ruining it, ect.
My biggest concern is when they are told SBMM doesn't work in a 4v1 game, and are given plenty of evidence as to why (uneven teams for example), they still try to turn a horror game into a competitive one.
Problem is they would have e to rework a lot because they put so much time and energy into trying to make SBMM work, when we all know it doesn't in a non-competitive game.
If it was deleted, instead of closed like you originally stated, then something in the comments must've happened to cause the mods to delete instead of just close. There's alot of posts on the forums that are about chat with complaints/ideas for changes that the argument of "it's because BHVR doesn't want to listen" doesn't work - all those posts would be deleted including the one I linked if that was the case.
Recently BHVR have shown that they cannot take criticism, they view it as "personal attacks" so I think that they dismiss a lot of valid criticism because they somehow see it as people being "mean".
Someone had their twitch shirts removed because they dared to give valid criticism and did not personally attack any devs. It would seem to me that BHVR would rather been seen as defensive and unable to handle criticism than they would as people who listen.
Of course, people do personally attack them but BHVR's problem is not being able to distinguish attacks and criticism.
Everytime BHVR communicates with us the community bashes them for their decisions. So that’s a big part of why we rarely hear from them.
So... you just admitted that BHVR doesn't listen to criticism and would just rather delete threads then address concerns that the playerbase has. Got it.
I don't even know how you got to that conclusion from my saying they don't just delete posts.
Then how about they just delete the offending comments, instead of deleting the whole discussion? Sounds to me like a horrible way to handle things.
You said they "Delete posts that state BHVR isn't listening to the community" which, is a form of criticism. A serious one, that happens to be true when it comes to issues of game health/balance.
them deleting threads doesn't mean they're not listening.
Probably depends on how many offending comments there were and if people were warned to stop with those comments but they continued anyway. It happens in what starts as decent convo, others ruin it to point mods end up deleting post.
sorry but you are giving me nothing but "trust me bro".
I didn't say that at all. I said they don't delete posts that are just criticism, it's why we have so many posts criticizing them open.
As I have said, they are slow.
but you are just redefining what ‚listening to‘ means and what doesn’t, yes they are listening. That doesn’t mean they have to directly implement everything suggested by the community though and it doesn’t mean they need to do it asap.
try to be constructive instead of destructive with your feedback and remember: it is still their game. If specific people think they know better what to do with this kind of game then maybe they should try to create their own game. There is a lack of competition in this genre anyways so it would be great if there would be other games that are taking different routes than BHVR
Nothing more I can give you. If you don't believe me, don't respond.
They do and they don't. it just depends how much work is involved.
If it requires changing a 1 to a 2 on a perk then they might do it. If it requires actually coding something with thought like fixing the base mechanics of the game and maps then... good luck.
Nurse bug fixes though?
(yes, it introduced new bugs, but it was still completely rewriting the code base of Nurse..)
Is that the base mechanics of the game?
Nurse was more playable before the changes to me. Whatever they did has made her feel off and blinks favour going short more now than ever. I even equipped plaid flannel and had multiple instances per game where my blink just suddenly swapped sides the moment i let go of the charge.
I will drop dbd once VHS is out,i'm done with BHVR
I was referring to this statement:
it just depends how much work is involved.
on base mechanics, I guess we had EGC but that was a while ago. And maybe hatch mechanic. But yeah, needs to be more of that I agree
The criticism you are referring to was constructive if you look at the whole picture and not just cherry pick stuff that wasn't even that bad (or untrue) to say. Anyone who thinks that was some sort of attack is just being way too fragile. Just the fact that was really worst quote you could come up with says a lot.
its certainly not a good look and it very much feeds into the "BHVR aren't listening to people". When I see people being punished for speaking out as if its a warning to all streamers to not say anything bad about the game that makes me think BHVR does not listen to people.
He was making fun of Patrick. Plus behavior can do that if they please. He's also using clips of Patrick where he coughs and the twitch shirt flies off David king (idk if you've seen that clip) but imagine how behavior would feel? Darn
wasnt he making memes about Patrick?
If Patrick wants to be center stage of the Q&As then people are going to respond to stuff he says and that includes criticism. Acting like any of the "jokes" in this case were anything so bad it warranted a punishment is a complete and utter over reaction. It's not even comparable to some of the really nasty stuff other people do say.
Also not sure why BHVR stans use this "they can do what they want stance". Yes they can do what they want but they can't complain about how "people think we don't listen when we do!" When they pull stunts like this. There's consequences for actions even if you had the "right" to do them.
I would hope that BHVR doesn't make changes solely off the Forums, or at least not solely to spite people from the Forums. There are a lot of other social media's they get their intel from including game statistics. There is also a matter of perception to understand, the game may not look the same to you as it does anyone else, or even the Dev's themselves. Anyways I got high on Sativa last night. A lot of emotion, and mind games comes with this game that causes things to be seen in a negative light. For example when you get stressed out or angry (symptoms of being burned out), you don't see the mistakes you mad while playing, and care a lot more about how easy it seems for the other side to beat you. Secondary I'm kind of glad they don't listen to the Forums so much. There seems to be a pretty big middle school status quo problem with the forums. We got mod/manager favorites that get away with pushing their own narrative and bullying others, and if you try to call them out or report them then you get warnings for it, so it's not exactly the kind of place I would expect the dev team to get a lot of feedback from unless they changed it from being community driven to company driven.
Anyways so far it doesn't seem like they make changes based solely on the Forums input, and to me that's a good thing even if the changes are not going well lately, because it could be worse.
TBH they have never really listened from the start and I can't entirely put the blame on them
I mean have you seen these forums?
But yeah, they have never really been good about it. And the community really doesn't help 99% of the time
There are things that are objectively good for the game, that they refuse to add. A toggle for the chat filter, for example.
BHVR does listen, but the problem with posts like these is the real question you are asking is Why has BHVR not put the ideas I want in the game? or Why dont BHVR listen to me? and the answer might be, they are not convinced your ideas are good for the game.
It does not matter if everyone in a thread agrees with the idea, you need to be able to convince the developer, they are here and they are watching and you are being heard.
He made a singular meme picture with Patrick shrugging, using a direct quote from Patrick, if I remember. I don't see how it was offensive. He took a picture of the guy from the Q&A, and then quoted something he said from said Q&A. Unless I am totally misremembering or something, or there were other ones.
He was being kind of a ass and posting a picture pretty much mocking him but not at the same time. He posted a pic of Pat and then his quote but the way he formatted it was making fun of him
Idk tbh