The Nemesis debate is ridiculous
I've been reading the 50,000 threads on Nemesis and this is what I got from all of them:
So some Nemesis players want to have zombies pursue survivors that are infected, have more zombies depending on map size, Nemesis to have longer reach, have a wider hitbox on tentacle, hit survivors and break pallet while survivors are sliding over pallets, also infect and damage on the same hit. Did I get all of that?
You need survivors in the game to play and no survivor is going to play against all of that. This game needs killers that are balanced for the health of the game which is what we were given and some want an easy 4k machine.
I appreciate those that know Nemesis is balanced. This forum is full of complaints about game balance, killers like Nemesis are part of creating that balance.
I've seen people talk about the entitlement in this community and it's very obvious.
Comments
For some people only getting 4k is fun 🤣🤣🤣 anything less is by definition not fun. Remember people got have their 100+ win streak 😂.
For the most part I think Nemesis is pretty balanced and the only change he needs is that infecting survivors shouldn't give them the speed boost. It's really weird how infecting them is supposed to give hindered but it's completely negated by the speed boost as if they've been hit?
Its not nemesis its the fact that there update came with 50'000 bugs and poor latency actuly makes it hard to land tentacle strikes so the only thing i understand is the want to widen his hit zone but I think fixing the actual game itself should have the same effect.
Legion and trapper are not bad lmao they just require pepole to think outside the box and mabye use some diffrent perks. Id struggle with Legion too if I kept useing perk builds desind for spirit on him.
Alright then, who are the weakest 3 killers in the game?
I'll just stick to my main Pyramid Head, sadly I must say the Nemesis is disappointing.
I'll meet you halfway. Let me do health states of damage at Tier 3 ONCE all the gens are done. We'll call it even. No more 3 hit bullshits on top of BT and DS and DH.
Its all perspective really. Like I can play Legion better then bubba any given day but thats bc I like to spread out the damage and not stay focused on 1v1s and gives use to different perks. Non are bad in my opinion it just comes down to play style. A fps player may have amazig luck with death slinger while someone not so good at aming may rant about how he's terrible.
To an extent, but there's a reason you only see nurse and spirit at tourney. If you take the best player for every killer and see their results, they won't be the same. There are bad killers, you can think they aren't and that's fine. But there is a difference in power from Nurse to Trickster.
Ok fine you got me there with Trickster. I think the community just needs to decide if they want the game competitive or not, bc ya I guess ur right there is a difference when your going all out at sweaty rank 1. but alot of us just play for fun and in the grand scheme of things matches have such a random skill gaps i don't find the killers strength differences too noticeable. P.s id never play a dbd turrny it just sounds frustrating to make a RNG based game competitive.
I just want to know what I'm aiming with the line the whip is it like deathslinger and ai that dosent get stuck on a wall for 5m
This 100%! He feels very balanced right now. I have a lot of fun playing him and going against him. I'd say he's the most balanced killer we've had in a VERY long time.
He is playing normal killers, he just refuses to play the ones that give survivors free wins....sooo....you pick one or the other. Either you like free wins, or you like facing the same killers every match, Freddy, Spirit, Nurse, (Now Blight). I personally would prefer all killers be at least Pig Tier as a standard or higher so I can play other killers outside of Pig and Spirit. But survivors keep clamoring for the game to get easier when you already have a massive amount of advantages. Then you wonder why there are so many spirits and nurses and freddys, its cause the other killers kinda suck ass.....
We get a chance to introduce a new killer to the roster to possibly spice things up with Nemesis, yet, people demand more nerfs....
All I gotta say is this, Theres always going to be more survivors than killer players. The population of survivors is at least 8 to 1. You want low queue times and more killer players then you can't demand the game be so easy. If you enjoy 30 minute queues and then when the queue does pop its yet another nurse, spirit, or blight, then by all means, keep the nerf train rolling until they eventually roll in A.I. killers because nobody wants to bother with it anymore.
And honestly, its probably something they should roll out so the massive amount of casual survivors have less to whine about.
I mean a lot of it is rng and if you just play causally that's okay.
But when you take a look at Nemesis and then look at other killers like Plague or Doctor, he feels pretty outclassed by them and they aren't even the top in terms of strength
That sounds very annoying. I don't use second chance perks so I didn't think about that. Good point. I'll give those up for the 3 hits, no tunneling, slugging or camping. Deal?
Who said I do any of those?
No one did. I was saying if you want to sacrifice those in the name of killers, I'll take those perks in the name of survivors and we can play the game and enjoy it.
Really i think hes underpowered garbage.
Most of his mechanics are, indeed balanced. Yes, even the difficulty in landing his hits is fine. The problem lies in the free chase extension he gives to survivors even if you're good enough to hit survivors in the open. So, as a result, the only smart option is to only use his power where there's a locked animation, which is kinda annoying. Also, the zombie AI is not in an OK state. He does need work.
I agree. 1 for each survivor just to keep the game pressured. So 4 can spawn at separate sides of the map and patrol certain generators, so getting ultra looped as Nemesis, wouldn't impact the overall game since zombies would be able to patrol more effectively. Plus theres so many times where I hid behind a generator and the ZOMBIE forgot I was there. Lol
He literally only needs to not give a speed boost on Contamination and some kind of improvement to T3. Zombies don't need any changes, but being able to command them to go to all auras (except hooks) would be great.
All i want for him is for his tier 3 tentacle cooldown to be reduced, for survivors to not get a speed boost when getting contaminated by a tentacle strike and one of the iris to just spawn a 3rd zombie
Zombies are perfect right now, although they have to programmed to stay away from the basement.
Tier 3 isn't anything crazy, sure it's a power that you keep throughout the game but a simple 1m range increase won't do much, maybe have his m2 missed attack cd reduced or have him break pallets along and hit survivors simultaneously, nerfing his mutation add ons in the process.
Normal 2 hit chase 2 seconds of survivor speedboost 6 seconds spent by killer in cooldown
Nemesis chase vs uncontaminated survivor 4 seconds of survivor speedboost 7.5 seconds spend by killer in cooldown
Nemesis chase vs contaminated survivor 2 seconds of speedboost 5 seconds spend by killer in cooldown, sure down the line you are 0.5 seconds faster than other killers with some range but it doesn't make up for time lost in earlier chases with up to 8 hits of your power being negated
20 seconds worth of cooldown and 16 extra seconds of speedboost that survivors don't need just limiting his potential with artificial slowdown on his part
You think an attack ignoring a survivor and phasing through them to break the pallet is balanced?
Gee i wonder what you mostly play.
Why
They're calling for more on the zombies because on most maps they are a non factor
I've done nothing but survivor all day and exactly 2 times out of the whole day the zombies did something that affected me.... which was drive me off a gen for a bit... THATS IT (and I'm an absolute GARBAGE survivor)
They're weak, easy to deal with and only come into play mid chase when you are distracted. There is just too few of them for the large and open maps that exist.
They're fine for the smaller and more closed in maps like Game and Lery's and so forth - but that's it.
You do exactly the same, ya know?
He still could use some buffs.
When survivors say that a killer is balanced and fun to play against, instead of complaining that he needs a nerf, then that's a huge warning sign!
Just look at Wraith: he got some small buffs and the forum instantly filled with nerf threads.
Killers that released where survivors found them in a good spot and fun to go against: Clown and Trickster. It's not like there is a pattern or something...
And Myers is fav killer of most survivors. Because he having power so late. And gens flying againts him. And when he gets T3, they are just hiding somewhere and countering him power easyly.
Nemesis is weak, that is reason survivors defending him so much.
The only thing putting me off with Nemesis is how random the tentacle is. Supposedly you can hit people over small obstacles but I saw small obstacles coming to like a survivor's waist and the tentacle couldn't go over it.
On the other hand a Nemesis could hit me through the crates piled up in front of the Saloon. They're easily high enough to completely hide a standing survivor.
It feels so random.
What should they do about the ai? Make them do the killers for for them? They are fine as they are. And I think the speed boost is completely fine. Survivors only have 4 vaccines.
But survivors being rewarded with a free Sprint Burst by being hit by the Killer without being damaged is fine? Do you realize how huge this Sprint Burst is against a Killer with basically no mobility? Nemesis is literally the only Killer in the game that has to land 3 hits in order to down someone. The first hit can even be cured by limited vaccines.
Loop Nemesis for a minute before being hit by his tentacle for the first time because his power basically is no threat before T2 -> get hit by tentacle -> Hold W and watch 2-3 gens being completed before you get hooked for the first time if you're at least semi-competent at looping.
Idk, maybe give them some kind of collision avoidance so they don't get stuck on a tree for the entire match until Nemesis wobbles over the whole map to destroy it? I've played 5 matches yesterday, in each of them at least 1 zombie got stuck and couldn't free himself. That's fine to you?
Those 4 vaccines negate 8 hits by Nemesis and grant survivors a temporary free Perk. So survivors basically start the match with 1 free Sprint Burst each. If they decide to vaccinate they get a second Sprint Burst for the cost of a few seconds opening a chest and injecting. How's that fine on a Killer that has no mobility?
What other Killer has to hit survivors 3 times to down them on top of giving them a Sprint Burst without hurting them?
You know that you don’t even need to hit them with the tentacle if that is such a problem for you. It could be used to break doors and pallets. I think he is balanced as he is.
This may not necessarily work but what if it was four zombies and they each are locked to a specific survivor, so they are always heading for you but at their typical 1m/s (without addons)? So no matter what you as a player only have to worry about your zombie and nemesis. This also limits how often the zombie rng comes into effect as the player can just make the choice to go to the opposite side of the map and have a very long time before their zombie will catch up to them.
Yes I do know that. It's not "such a problem for me" it's a problem for many people as you can see on these forums. He's the only Killer in this game that requires 3 hits to down someone with his power. If you're just using your power to destroy pallets and doors then you're basically just an M1 Killer with low mobility and a small distance pallet break mechanic. Even Wraith can do that better then Nemesis though.
Balanced in what sense? Balanced for the average survivor random groups - maybe. He absolutely gets stomped by competent and coordinated survivors though.
How likely are you to play against competent survivors though? You are acting like everyone plays in a swf death squad.
I was thinking the same until yesterday. That's why I may be a bit but biased I swear I encountered that 4 times in a row yesterday on Nemesis and was able to secure 1-3 hooks top in each of those matches. It was beyond frustrating.
On release I easily 2-4ked with him but yesterday was just unplayable. Just showed me the potential of Nemesis which is just lackluster in higher skill tiers.. I'm certain I could've easily done better against those teams on Wraith, Spirit or PH, for example.
Of course you would do well with spirit and wraith, these killers are broken. You know that if they buff him to the point where he 4ks these squads he will give causal survivors no chance. Some survivors are too good for the game, you can’t buff killers just because there is a chance that you might play against someone with 10k hours.
Semi competent survivors can actually whup nemsis with this one simple trick. Focus on holding w and use your additional sprint burst to prolong the chase. He either lets you go or continues chasing which is a pretty big lose lose. This isn't making an anti swf death squad killer its about making a competent killer.
We have examples of killer like plague who is balanced and dosent have the obnoxious multiple hits to down. A lot of people only want minor buffs on nemsis taking away the 3 hits to down and dropping it to two is all thats really needed. The zombie ai is gonna need tweaks and I'm not talking buffs only.
The facecamping zombie issues needs to be looked at and potentially limit zombie attack behaviour so it dosent trigger whilst the survivor is in chase. Though this mechanic is the first we have seen in dbd so wait and see might be best for the zombies.
Is PH broken too? I could've even done better with Doctor I suppose.
What you're saying here is, in its core, absolutely correct. It just highlights the other huge issue this game has though. Either the game should be balanced so death squads don't have such a huge potential of absolutely breaking the game mechanics or give casual survivors more room to play and adjusting the killers power according to that.
OR you implement a friggin Matchmaking already. This game not having any kind of MMR after 5 years is just embarrassing. I reckon most balance complaints would be solved by just having a proper Matchmaking system in place.
I was in red ranks as a Killer after my first 40 hours within the game. How was it fair to pair me up against 4x 10k hour guys on Discord/TS?
You just can't have a game being where the Killers power is limited because of "average" teams while you also have death squads running around in the same match making pool.
PH, isn’t broken, very fun to play as and against, doctor is ass.
And honestly I agree. I do think that they need a proper matchmaking system before making any changes to killers.
This is one thing I agree with. It's less of a problem on smaller maps but on large maps this becomes an issue. The speed boost granted by the first tentacle gives them enough space to get to a new loop. The second speed boost does the same. Eventually the survivor will of course go down but the time spent to down a survivor is just immense.
You either have to commit a huge amount of time to down a survivor or you have to drop the chase and go for someone else which can work on smaller maps but on large maps it can also be a death sentence for Nemesis since he has absolutely no mobility. So dropping the chase is on many maps under most circumstances not an option so you're stuck to chasing someone for minutes.
I literally am about to down a Survivor (who isn't Contaminated) and they RUN INTO a freaking Zombie and get a Speed Boost right in front of me and get away from me and start a new loop. Happened to me in a ton of my matches tonight, it was such BS lol, the Zombies were actually SAVING the Survivors straight up.
The other thing that happened is the Zombie blocked my path to a Gen that I had to kick with Pop after a hook, it was last gen in a 3gen situation and had I reached it in time I would have actually been able to possibly win the match, but the Zombie was in my way and I had to waste time killing the Zombie to get my path clear to the gen, and I was just a second too late to get to it and it popped.
Another example where the ZOMBIE actually helped the Survivors escape more than they helped me, and in fact they wouldn't have probably escaped if it wasn't for the zombie lol. Like c'mon :(
The one thing which needs changing asap is Survivors getting a speed boost when becoming contaminated.
It even says in the power description that when becoming contaminated there’s a small hindered effect on the survivor, so why do they get a speed boost too when it does no damage?
It also nerfs his tier 3 because survivors can stay contaminated until he reaches tier 3, then just use the vaccines so every chase requires 3 hits if he wants to use his power. Nemesis already suffers the attack cooldown animation, the speed boost is grossly unnecessary.
Have seen many survivor streamers intentionally run into zombies during chase to get the speed boost away.
They get the hindered effect (for 0.25sec according to wiki). ^^
Having the four zombies on large maps are good enough,that would be way to oppressive and they kinda work that way already, if survivors stay in an area to long they start to march to seek them out,I like the scale of more zombies on larger maps but that would be to much,Nemesis isn't that bad he could use a few tweaks.
How about that second form of Mori
When a survivor is in the dying state, on final hook and infected.If you're down by a zombie they can just start to eat the survivor ?
STOP using this ######### word incorrectly! RNG means 'Reandom Number Generator' and there is nothing random about them! They go toward noise notifications and track survivors in their detection range. Otherwise they wander aimlessly. That isn't random; it's very controllable and predictable.