Survivors are stronger, but unplayable because of toxic killers
Straight to the article and yes its about face camping, and don't you tell me that face camping has multiple counter plays and I am just "bad", Ill tell you what, I probably have more hours then any of you. Once killers get 1 kill then a 3 v 1 is already hard enough.
Some of you are gonna say "then gen rush". Scenario: a face camped survivor can buy times of 3 generator. Then its 3 survivors vs 1 killer, and then the killer choose the weakest survivor to chase and down him immediately, proceeds to face camp, then you and your teammates are doing gens. The killer knows no one is coming then comes to you and when your teammate knows he will be going for the save. Now the killer goes back to the hook and get a double down. You are the last survivor and your injured, gg.
"Its simple, make camping bannable", said by a pig main.
Comments
I'm not sure on one thing though.
so I'd like to compare this to the example if the two survivors didn't just hang out in view of the killer and say stuck in a corner or on a gen or something.
I think you'll agree there is no abuse in this case.
Now to compare ti your exampleIn your example the 2 try and bait away the killer the killer,
Is the result not the same for the killer? He's hanging around and nothings happening. The only difference is in your example he atleast has the option to go chase another survivor without looking for them. Arguably this puts him in a better passion than if the survivors never show up and he just stays there by the hook. Especially if the two bait survivors hung around a gen to work somewhere.
So to be clear I'm looking for an explanation as to either how my example is an abuse, or how your example is not worse for the killer than mine.
Oh I just thought you may be referring to the killer being able to stay by the hooked survivor to prevent his escape, but he can do the same in your example by ignoring the survivors I mean if they sit 30 feet from him doing nothing that's better for him than if the are anywhere else doing a gen like my example
Yes but with your punishment, if the Survivors 'hang nearby', then the Killer is sitting on a hook, giving the 3rd Survivor infinite time to do generators (remember; the Struggle Meter is slowed or stopped if the Killer is nearby & not in a chase. That's the idea that was offered.).
So, at that point, it does not matter if 2 Survivors are standing around; they still eventually win, or the Killer has to give up a free unhook.
And again; no mechanic should force the killer to play badly just because Survivors don't like a playstyle that the Devs already said was valid.
So no, camping should not be punishable just because it makes a handful of people salty. And doubly no to it being punished in such a blatantly abuseable way. Why is it blatantly abuseable? Because it already was abused.
OK so just to be clear the abuse your talking about is that the killer will not win while camping?
If I'm missing something Is there anything I apologize so just to make sure is there anythung the survivors can do that would be worse for the killer than say doing nothing in a corner. Becuase if not then it's not a matter of abuse it's a matter of the killer will simply not be able to camp anymore. Which again is the entire point.
If your point is that this is unfair becuade it will stop camping than it sounds to me like the proposal works exactly as intended with no way to abuse it. But if there is a way I would like to know to tweak the rules proposed.
And again don't bother saying camping is legitimate play or stopping it is bad becuase survivors shouldn't complain. 1 becuase no one says camping is not legal/legit it is permitted and definitely a good way to win. 2. Becuase the whole point is to propose a change just like with the keys. Or do you think the keys are working great and shouldn't be changed?
Hours doesnt have anything to do with being good. I have +7000h on tf2 and that doesnt make me a pro.
And jesus christ, dont cry because this happened to you in a random match.
Look, i lose 1 of 10 matches as bubba, and i really get mad about it when i shouldnt... Come on, im having a really high win ratio here. I dont know if you re understanding me, but just take it easy.
Im not a player with casual mentality that sees the world pink, i also want to win as well, but when you are in this scenario and theres nothing you can do, theres nothing you can do. Move on.
I'm saying it's a bad mechanic because it does one of two things:
The reason you can't see it as being abused is because you can't look past 'Camping bad!'. If I'm at the hook, and a Survivor's near the hook; Why should I be punished with a slow/stopped Struggle Meter for my meat?
But if the Survivors are VISIBLY NEARBY BUT OUTSIDE THE CHASE, that's exactly what happens; I know the Survivors are there, but I'm not in a chase. Now I, as the Killer, have to walk away from the hook, because the hooked Survivor will never (or more slowly) die.
If I commit to one chase, another Survivor unhooks. And that should be MY CHOICE as the Killer. Not forced on me buy a BS mechanic forcing me to leave because I can't win otherwise.
If you can't see that, then you have no objectivity. All you see is 'camping = bad' and think any wild idea WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN TRIED AND ABUSED should be added back in, because you don't like camping.
I'm done. I've told you, multiple times, how it was abused, because IT WAS ABUSED, and you sit there and go 'I don't see how it can be abused!'. IT ALREADY WAS. What you 'don't see' does not matter.
All you see is a massive middle finger to Killers that you like because it removes a mechanic you, personally, don't like. That's not balance. That's bias.
Peace.
sounds like you’re mad you got face camped. valid strategy.
I'm trying not to ignore your posts but I keep seeing you write the abuse is that 5he killer can't stay and camp the hook for the win.
I'm telling you flat out that the goal is to stop camping.
Now one abuse would be if the survivors force a chase around the hook this was why the timer goes down when the killer is in a chase. This was an example of an abuse becuase it was was publishing a killer who wasn't camping(he is chasing in this example)
So of you can list an abuse (other than the killer wont be able to camp) then please let me know. If you don't like this proposal becuase it will stop killers from camping then you may as well say the perk works exactly as intended but that you don't want it becuas you like to camp. Which is fine there are plenty of survivors out there who love using keys and make the same excuses you do about camping. Killers can play around it, it's hard enough on survivors, survivors should do everything to achieve there objective etc etc etc.
So to sum up BESIDES preventing camping, does it do anything else that the survivors can exploit/abuse
Sometimes camping is necessary. If survivors swarm the hook, what reason does the killer have to leave the hook?
It sounds like you would not be happy with anything other than a free trade which means survivors can play dumb and still get unhooks.
Just checking could you walk me through how this scenario is different with or without the proposed change. Ie if the survivors swarm under current rules vs under the proposed changes
Let me ask you this....
When you are on a gen and you see a teammate hooked, do you not feel pressure abandon that generator and rescue them as you know their life is ticking away? Would you feel the same amount of pressure if they had all the time in the world to die?
This is essentially what happened when the devs experimented with removing the decay on the hook whenever the killer stayed near. Survivors would pressure the killer into staying near the hook giving that last teammate all the time in the world to get things done on gens.
Hooks are supposed to pressure survivors out of hiding and off gens and that pressure gets removed when the death timer gets tampered with in any way. it's part of the core dynamic of the game - survivors pressure killers to find them by doing the gens, killers pressure them away and out of hiding by hooking people. This is part of the reason you can solo a gen considerably faster than it takes for somebody to work through both stages of the hook and there are more survivors.
All your proposal does is slow the game down the game which frankly we don't need.
Your name explain it. You need to feel powerful, and you need a video game. That’s exactly the problem with these kind of campers
Facecamping literally hasn't existed for a good 2 and a half years at this point. It's an archaic term from when you could only unhook from the front, which could be blocked by the killer literally blocking the trigger zone with their physical capsule. Beyond that, it's just people who are too bad at faking grabs to be able to save.
Hours dont mean nothing tbh. You could have 6k hours and still play like a rank 20. But I'm gonna tell you something that is gonna be painful for me to say to you but camping and tunneling will never go away. Either struggle and die on your first hook and move on or struggle have your team mates do gens. It is what it is.
Why does the pressure go away? Remember if the killer isn't standing next to the hook the hook timer continues as normal.
False. A rank 1 Freddy proxy camped me very recently. So yes, still very much existent. Granted, none of my teammates wanted to swap hooks with me 😅.
Camping, whilst annoying for the survivors, is perfectly valid and in fact in some cases it’s necessary or at least the only viable play.
In the scenario you gave, you should likely have at least 1 gen done by the time camping initiates. Cracking out another 3 gens whilst the killer stands around doing nothing will put you at 1 gen left. So that’s 3 vs 1 with 1 gen to finish. Essentially an easy win for the survivors.
Making camping bannable is nonsensical. The game allows killers to camp. You can’t just ban people for playing the game. It’s not an exploit. The mechanics are there already. It would be akin to banning survivors for face camping generators.
Camping can't be bannable. The reason why it happens is a multifaceted issue, and it is a necessary strat in some cases. (For example, versus top tier players, it's better to camp out the weak link like you said, because a 3 v 1 is more manageable for a Killer, esp in those scenarios- or camping during EGC to secure a final kill isn't the worst thing and is generally understandable.)
Imho I think the issue is a mixture of both gen speeds (As they can feel fast for Killer if you're not applying enough pressure or if you panic because a gen has popped and you only just got your first down) and the feeling that the game is always stacked against you, thanks to a mix of bad matchmaking and unlucky games. (Anyone who's played Killer has had this feeling after playing at Rank 10 as whatever Killer you enjoy and then just getting destroyed by a full Red rank lobby with the worst perks to verse imaginable, because of matchmaking.)
Did I misread? Wasn't there something about the hook timer not ticking down? Given the amount of that thing I see, i may of just gotten you confused with somebody else.
Then make instant unhookes impossible add like a 20s time where they cant be saved and they have the camrardery perk while this is happening
That makes no sense.
I'm still reading through this thread so I can't comment in depth yet, but LOL oh COME ON.
Everyone has been saying "Hurrrrrrrr GIT GUD, red ranks don't camp lulz".
False. I'm camped or teammates (Solo) are camped every other match in red ranks. Freaking laughable to say it doesn't happen, omg lmao.
My last match:
This last one is my favourite vacation shot- a Bubba AND a team mate worked together to hunt me down and farm me for bloodpoints.
*But it NEVER happens at red ranks. Never*
The solution to camping isn't to punish the killer, but it's also unreasonable to say that survivors should be able to consistently know that the killer is camping and bust out all the gens in time. This is a prime example of why dbd needs to have a ping wheel that survivors can communicate with. That is the very best solution. Once the ping wheel is implemented, facecampers will seldom meet a team of solo queues that reward their behavior and throw themselves at the hook. The entire strategy will die because it is won't be viable, and no survivors will have to deal with it because the killers will know that it's not viable.
No it doesn't stop if the killer is away from the hook it counts down normally as long as 5he killer isn't camping
I mean, mathematically seen:
If you're with a team, you have 120 seconds to fix gens, which is already post-chasing. Meaning that most of the time, at least 1 generator is about to be finished(if not multiple generators having progression).
It takes 3 survivors 80 seconds to do 3 gens. Leaving you 40 seconds remaining, which is enough time to finish 1 more gen with 3 people. You have free reign in this scenario, so you can break 3 gens near instantly, making it impossible for the killer to do anything about it. That's 4 gens gone for 1 survivor. 3 survivors with 1 gen left can use a key, or they can split pressure over the already survivor 3 gen to guarantee the final generator being finished.
And that is assuming survivors started working on generators once the first survivor got hooked. Which is rarely the case. Most commonly, 1 generator is being worked on by 2 survivors. Meaning that generator is very likely to finish before a survivor hooks, and in the average match, its very likely that 2 gens get fixed in that same time. Meaning that you have 120 seconds left to do 3.5 generators on average with 3 survivors. Which is enough time to finish gens and go for a suicidal hook bomb with BT.
The biggest issue here, is that survivors are not able to ping. They cannot communicate that they are being camped. If (solo) survivors had access to a ping system where they somehow could communicate if they spot a totem, if they are in chase, if they are being camped or if they almost finished a gen. Which would raise solo survivors very close to SWF in terms of communication, then the devs can buff killers accordingly. Because the solo survivor experience is the biggest reason why killers that dont seem to need a nerf because of SWF, still get nerfs because of solo survivors.
stuff like facecamping is literally built into the game just git gud
Since we're sharing screenshots... Here's a really old one of mine.
Tell me, was I supposed to just let this Meg go in this situation?
Some of you would say yes. Some of you would call it a desperate attempt at getting something from a losing fight.
But to me - she got a full game. She had her fun. Now it's my turn.
This is why camping is allowed.... is for situations like this.
Throwing a wild guess..I don't think this guy plays above green ranks....
Perhaps not.
It sucks but if they camp you just need to do gens and hope that when they see one pop they go for it. its hard and not fun but its the best counter I have found vs campers. I run open handed and kindred just so I can see if and when its safe for unhooks it tends to help a lot in solo play because it gives the team useful information. I am weaker in chase but find the strength from teammates far more valuable.
seems like someone forget about mori nerf... yet keys are still fine.
What's next? after nerfing a camping, and again forgetting about keys, you'll be like "well, survivors hate tunneling, killers hate keys. So, nerf tunneling and nerf keys"
Seems like your forgetting about the nerf to ds or.......every nerf and buff in this game up to this point that had favored killers and or survivors.... oh no what that's completely irrelevant to this conversation.
I mean the whole point was to address two issues that are currently in the game. The idea was to have killer mains and survivor main collectively agree to a change that benefits them and another change that doesn't benefit them so that everyone would be requesting the same set of changes in the hopes that the devs may listen to a request being made by a large portion of the community.
As opposed to half the community asking keys to be changes and the other half saying not too which is easily ignorable. And half the community saying fix camping and half saying not to which again is easily ignorable.
But I figure that at the end of the day there are certain killers who rely so heavily on camping that no matter what they want it in the game, given the opportunity to fix keys or buffing mories or maybe even breakout glitches. And you happen to be one of those killers, hence your argument of:
The killers got a nerf before so don't do anything else unless there's a nerf to survivors as though there's a one to one trade off everytime. And then even if there was a survivor nerf next I'm sure the next argument you'd make is well yah there was a survivor nerf but it wasn't as hard as the last killer nerf so.....still don't address camping.
Maybe you Wana try well camping is in the game so its legit so don't change it? It's an equally bad argument
i don’t mind camping, as long as the teammates are doing the generators and not self caring in corners then I am happy, because the killer is wasting time camping me while there doing there objective and escaping, if you hate camping then bring the anti camp/tunnel build: Camraderie, DS, Second Wind, and Unbreakable.