Pr0p3r9
Pr0p3r9
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In a world where the strongest killers tend to be able to freely use their power without an associated item (Nurse, Billy, Blight, Ghoul, Dracula, Spirit, Pyramid Head, Artist, Twins), the fact that so many mid to low tier killers have a special item that can get countered by chest offerings is quite depressing. Consider changing this design.
I understand that the design team believes that chests are a fun and engaging design, but this is not the way to increase the prominence of the chest mechanic in DBD. If the design team wants chests to be strong, then items which are found in chests should always be a buffed variant to encourage chest searching. Instead, searching chests is barely worth the effort even with perks and even when the chests are right on top of the gens.
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@j_mod1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642846#Comment_3642846
“…Under what circumstances would Champion of Light be used with flashbangs?…”
🙋♂️ I have an example of a very specific circumstance where the two used in tandem would save me grief:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DUTXX2B0JH6P/image.jpg
I would simply use a flashlight if I wasn’t completely incapable of successfully using a flashlight 😂
Holy necromancy, Batman! This thread is over a year old, and you resurrected it to post a meme about an archive challenge. You also completely ignored what my post was saying. I didn't mean "under what circumstances" in the sense that survivors wouldn't want to do it, I meant "under what circumstances" to highlight that CoL is yet another perk that mostly harms the low tiers while doing ######### all to counter the high tiers.
@Brokenbones They made CoL work with Blast Mine and Flashbang again in 7.5.1, and made it even easier to trigger in 7.5.2. Synergizing multiple blind sources with CoL is now intended behavior.
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@Mandy said:
One thing to add as I can see people talking about the win / lose / draw conditions, please know this is match outcome and not what happens with MMR which is much more conditional.
This post (in relation to the OP) deeply confuses me. If abandonment doesn't affect MMR in a way that's reflective of the win/loss/draw table that's been shared, then isn't the entire OP meaningless in respect to abandonment? As others have said, the devs never give answers on what officially is a win in DBD, so MMR has become the system that we gauge victory by. If this table doesn't have a strong relationship with the MMR system, then what was even the point of sharing this information?
Indeed, if you want me to care about this table in terms of what it says about what constitutes a win/draw/loss, then at the absolute minimum I would require a similar table describing what qualifies as victory for every configuration of survivor escapes, deaths, or bleedouts for all individual players in that game. As far as I understand it, no such table or rule set which could be used to create such a table exists. This is a large part of why people play towards MMR, because it's the only objective win condition rule set that can be measured against.
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I got an error code. It came and went almost too fast for me to see, but I think it was 8014.
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Things are spotty for me. Sometimes I can log in. Sometimes it has a problem when I look for a match. Sometimes I can't log in at all. I suspect that there's some kind of load balancing problem.
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Legion+Twins would be absolutely impossible to deal with. Legion gets everyone injured, Victor goes on a rampage, and Legion gets the hooks while Victor massacres everyone in a 5 mile radius.
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I'll take the devil's advocate position in this thread. Under what circumstances would Champion of Light be used with flashbangs? The obvious answer is that a survivor would throw a pallet, wait for the killer's kick animation to start, and then drop the flashbang. The survivor runs away in a direction the killer can't see and the killer has a considerable slowdown for a short time.
Who does this impact? Nurse wouldn't care, she'd just blink for distance. Blight wouldn't care, he'd just rush to catch back up. Spirit, Wesker, raging Oni, Billy, Singularity, Hag, and Twins all have movement abilities to close the distance. Artist and Huntress both have ranged abilities that let them disregard the movement penalty.
You might notice that in that list, the killers that can just disregard Champion of Light+Flashbang are also the killers who are already the strongest.
The only weak killers who can disregard this are Dredge and Freddy, while the most notable high tier killers who would be hampered by this are Plague and Pyramid Head.
Is this compelling enough to decide that Flashbang shouldn't be able to combo with CoL? idk, that's an opinion-based question. I just wanted to put forward the observation that buffing CoL in this way might have unenjoyable side effects.
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This error has been resolved. Please remove the Pending tag and add a Closed tag.
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Is it wise to discuss methods that have an immediate possibility of getting dbd to start? It's doubtful that it'll speed up development of unix-like compatibility, but this troubleshooting could result in unfavorable consequences.
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@kisfenkin said:
Franklin's Demise. It is just unfair to give the opponent an ability that wastes the blood you spent. If the survivors had a similar perk that broke the killer's add-ons when they got stunned, then riots would happen.
I won't dispute that Franklin's is unfun, but it's hardly unfair. The killer is sacrificing a perk slot in order to get a survivor's item slot. As the 1 in a 1v4, the killer's abilities have to be stronger than a survivor's singular abilities. When a group of survivors realize that Franklin's is in play, they all will start dropping their items before you hit them and sometimes before you even chase them. Even against a survivor that you just hit, they'll often have a friend come in shortly after you get the item on the ground.
To me, Franklin's utility isn't in the deletion of items, it's in ensuring that an item won't give value directly in chase. Styptics, syringes, residual manifest blinds, and blood amber won't see any value during chase after you hit them with Franklin's.
With medkits, there's the added bonus that even 2 charges taken from a medkit means that a full heal from that medkit becomes a 99% heal, but this isn't something horrific to me when I consider that medkits are the strongest item in the game by a significant margin. Even then, 99% of a heal means that the survivor just needs to get tapped by another survivor to be topped up. Medkits can suffer from Achilles Heel and still be the best item type in the game.
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Even the licensed survivor and killer characters can have their perks show up in the Shrine of Secrets. Survivors are all basically skins of each other to start with anyway. Really, the only thing you can't unlock through grinding is licensed killer's powers and cosmetics. Cosmetics are superficial and don't matter that much, and you can chose if each individual killer power is worth it to you or not.
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I actually think that Cenobite is the hardest killer for similar reasons. Cenobite has all of the mechanical challenges of curving, blinking, and Clown-bottle-style anti-loop all in one package, plus he has a little bit of Pig/Onryo style macro skill expression at identifying and pressuring a vulnerable survivor.
Yes, you could play Cenobite as just 4.6 m/s man with an m1, and that's why the skill floor of Cenobite is down there with all the other 4.6 killers, but the ceiling of skill expression is astronomically high. He has great (but complex) build synergy with hex totems, hemorrhage, passive regression (e.g. Ruin, Oppression, Jolt), stealth perks, and even chase perks. On the other side, he can nicely counter many items, the endurance status effect, and stealth-based strategies.
The highest level of skill expression for a Cenobite is absolute insane in both the micro and the macro game.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3046206#Comment_3046206
Sadako is still good at catching survivors off guard. Lullaby or not.
That's because those survivors are bad. They're either listening to spotify, listening to their friends on swf comms, or simply completely oblivious. The fact that people make misplays does not and never will excuse game mechanics that are imbalanced.
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@Shroompy said:
The perk notification is meant for it to have the same effect against SWF and Solo, remove the notification and all that happens is Solo's suffer
Except it does way more than that. Even the first time dissolution gets activated in the match, all survivors in the terror radius will be notified. Even a swf would get blindsided by Dissolution at least once per game if the notification didn't exist.
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Sadako needs to lose her lullaby. I will not accept any counterarguments. Having a pure stealth killer with a lullaby is unacceptable.
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I might have been too hasty to answer this poll. You do mean that she should get a fatigue after getting stunned if she was was pallet stunned in her power while chain blinking, right? That was how I interpreted the question. In that case, I believe she should eat both the stun and the fatigue because the stun is a form of skill expression on the survivor's part, and Nurse is strong enough that having a reason to fear pallets wouldn't make her unduly weak.
If you just mean getting a fatigue after a stun when she's casually walking around, then of course the answer is no. She's not using her power, so she shouldn't get the weakness period associated with the power's use.
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Not all of the options in the poll were mutually exclusive, so I chose the one that was closest in tone to what I felt.
I don't think the overheat mechanic should exist. That's my only problem with Hillbilly in his current state. If blight is allowed to exist with only a short cooldown, then chainsaw overheat has no place in the game.
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Many survivors can can't keep the rules of Doctor's power straight as it is. Don't overcomplicate it. On top of that, Doctor already has one of the best add-on spreads in the entire game right now. He has 4 lines of madness add-ons. Some of them are more competitive and some are more fun. He's got a line of range add-ons that increase his anti-loop with 2 fun add-ons that radically alter the shape of his attack for trickshot fun. One of his Iridescents gives him all of his madness effects at once, while the other radically increases the value of shocking multiple survivors and splitting pressure.
While there may be complaints to be had about Doctor's base kit abilities, I've always considered Doctor to be a beacon of good add-on design in the game. In fact, I still think that he has the best add-on design in the game, and I don't want it to be altered.
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2-3 flashlights don't phase me. If I saw 2 flashlights and 2 med-kits/toolboxes, I might consider Franklin's. If I see 4 flashlights, I might consider going full meme build and putting on Lightborne+Agitation+Mad Grit.
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Bloodwarden Pyramid Head builds have more potential than most realize. If you have two exit gates close to each other, you can pressure a survivor to open the door and then return deeper into the map to find other survivors. They'll probably make it pretty close to the gate over a chase, but you'll eventually be able to cage them near the door, which will send them as far away from the door as possible.
You run off to find the cage and try to keep up pressure without giving the plan away. If a tormented survivor gets near, you can repeat the strat to get them caged away from the gate. When the time comes to trigger Bloodwarden, it will be much less suspicious than most Bloodwarden plays because you have been "hooking" survivors and progressing the game. The entity 4k is a lot more difficult to see coming.
(There's many games where trying to do this does throw the game, though. It's still very fun.)
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I would like 4 stacks of condemned to inflict Mangled and Hemorrhage. Maybe 4 stacks or more could also give a different colored ring border on the hud. This would make having condemned stacks pose a risk and a slowdown even if the survivor isn't interacting with tapes. If the survivor is interacting with tapes, they're also more likely to be injured while they do it, making condemned kills more viable without good survivor teamwork.
As things stand, Sloppy Butcher feels like a requirement to play Onryo, and I don't like how that perk slot is permanently taken up. I also feel like Discordance is a mandatory perk on her, while bbq is mandatory for killer in general for bp economy. I feel like I only have one open perk slot when I play as Onryo, and that's frustrating.
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@ReikoMori said:
Nearly 40 perks (exact number to be confirmed), including all the META Perks listed above, will undergo changes. “It’s an intentional attempt to shake things up,” explains Matt S, Dead by Daylight’s Design Director. “There have been adjustments to certain controversial perks in the past, but this is the biggest collection of perks being changed at once.”
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997157#Comment_2997157
I mean I don't see any survivors or killers in particular that are going to be a major priority when even the exact number of perks is nebulous enough that it's a floating variable and everything that is currently meta is definitely getting changed and we have no idea how anything off meta will change. At this point it is literally just p3 whoever you want and see what happens later in the year. This simply one of the few times in this game where we don't have to think about something.
Nearly 20 survivor perks out of ~80 isn't so many that the exercise becomes futile. The vast majority will stay the same. As I also have already said, meta perks also tend to have the least utility from tiering up. Dead Hard's exhaustion timer doesn't matter very much. Unbreakable's recovery speed matters much less than the fact it lets you pick yourself up in the first place. 20 seconds on ds isn't as impactful as it sounds because most survivors use ds aggressively in lockers in the first place.
Taken together this means that survivors with meta perks tend to be a low priority for getting to p3 anyway, but it doesn't mean that the general premise of trying to create an order of priority for p3 in survivors is a useless task. You might get bitten on one of your perks losing value, but as a trend, thought-out choices for which survivor to p3 first are still worth it.
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@ReikoMori said:
It legit doesn't matter who you P3 as with the perk changes coming there is no telling what will be best in slot after that.
The perk overhaul will contain "nearly 40 perks." Assuming that nearly half of what they adjust is on the killer side and nearly half on the survivor side, that's slightly less than 20 perks perks side. Generally speaking, I think that it can be said that most perks will stay the way they are. The ones most in jeopardy of being changed are the meta perks like Dead Hard and bt. As I also hinted at earlier, it's off-meta perks that tend to have the biggest difference between p1 and p3 anyway. I think that trying to plan out the prestige order is still worth the effort that it would take.
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I still think that Nurse's biggest problems right now are her add-ons. Torn Bookmark, Kavanagh's LB, Heavy Panting, Fragile Wheeze, and Dark Cincture all need to get removed. Torn Bookmark's 3 blinks should never exist in this game without having a hefty restriction on it. The LoS restriction was really elegant, and I don't understand why they removed it.
Nurse should also always have predictable cooldown and max distance. Nurse has enough lethality that she doesn't need KLB and Panting's mobility on top of that. The only mobility add-on she can keep is Campbell's LB because that add-on comes with additional costs.
The cooldown add-ons aren't horrible offenders, but they enable too much slugging for Nurse. If Nurse wants to slug, she needs to accept that she has to make up for a lot of w-key distance first, but Fragile Wheeze and Dark Cincture ignore that.
For now, I think that this is the best way to handle Nurse. As others have said, as the rest of the game becomes better for M1 killers, more chunks will have to be taken out of Nurse to bring her in line with the rest of the cast. Right now your proposed change will mostly reduce build variety for Nurse. It could maybe be implemented someday, but this isn't the right time.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2978153#Comment_2978153
Yeah, his add-ons are hot garbage. The only ones worth running are the range extenders.
The extenders of the time you spend laying trails are also pretty good. It gives you more time to zone if the survivor is at a strong area, and it benefits from the same "Duration=Recovery Speed" weirdness that Spirit's add-ons have.
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My assumption was that Artist is one huge The Birds (1963) reference, and the violins hint at Hitchcock's love of strings to represent danger.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975024#Comment_2975024
Not a new killer.. give it back to him. It’s his!
I'd love that, but I think BHVR is sick of reworking Nightmare. I know I would be. It's more likely that they'd just want to restart with a clean slate with old Nightmare's power, if they even do want to reintroduce it at all.
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I miss old Nightmare. He had a high information power that encouraged hit and run. He was actually really complex. People who said he was F tier didn't understand how to play him, imo. I think that in the current boon meta, he actually would've continued to be a viable hit and run killer if you could play him well.
He did need some buffs, but totally reworking him was a bad call. I still want them to reintroduce his power's concept in a new killer at some point.
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@Plsfix369 said:
So when are the cheaters going to start exploiting this?
This isn't on the level of being a cheat. Even Blight's J-flicking required you to amp your mouse dpi and sensitivity to an ungodly level. This tech only requires a frame-perfect input (which is actually quite skillful by definition). I give it a rating of "hug-tech" on the unintended mechanic scale.
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We need a killer who really interacts with the obsession mechanic on a deep level. Right now, the closest we have to that is Judith's Journal, but I think it has the potential to be expanded into an entire concept. The killer would need to have an obsession change mechanic baked into their power to prevent a tunnel-encouraging playstyle, but I think the idea has merit. We've also got Cenobite who's got a similar idea in that he wants to hunt down the holder of the box, but it's not quite the same as a true obsession-based killer.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Survivors: "AFK Killers should be banned. Like, I didn't even get to play. There's zero interaction with the Killer. Why should I de-pip because of this? Holding M1 on a generator is boring, man."
Also Survivors: DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! **3 minutes, 40 seconds after map load**
Just pressure gens, 5head!
In the Leary's match, he spent ~35 seconds not doing anything to hamper survivors, and he spent the other 3 minutes only chasing one survivor at a time. The outcome of that time discrepency was, as it should be, his loss. Dead by Daylight is all about trying to force survivors into a crawl through damage until either one is dead (pushing time efficiency in your favor) or an oppurtunity to 4-slug appears (which pushes gen speed down to 0). If you can't reach either of those states, you lose (barring esoteric win-cons like Bloodwarden and Devour).
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I didn't realize you were posted two videos. My last comment was in response to the Hawkin's match. I don't want to super-analyze another match like that, but the Tinkerer tells the story. Before every gen got done, you got Tinkerer at least the expected amount of time prior to the gen pop. I didn't pay as much attention to that one, but it looked legitimate to me, too.
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This looked legit to me. You were only pressuring one survivor from 0:00 to 1:22. That's almost two minutes for 3 survivors. Ten seconds to find the gens, 75-80 seconds to work on them, getting 3 gens to complete or near to complete. Between 1:22 and 1:43 you have pressure on the hooked survivor, on the survivor that's going for save, and on the survivor that ran off to your left (who was probably doing the gen you found immediately later).
Between 1:43 and 2:19 you have no pressure whatsoever. Survivors have almost nothing to do but gens. That's 36 seconds * 4 survivors, which is 144 seconds. 2 survivors stopped to heal, which accumulates to 32 seconds out of that total, so there's 112. Between 2:19 and 3:38, you only pressure one survivor for the duration, which gives survivors 3 * 79 = 237 seconds of gen time.
In the two times above, there are 381 seconds. Only 160 of those seconds had to go to gen time. That leaves 221 seconds for survivors being in transit and goofing off, which is about 55.25 seconds transit & goof-off time per survivor over the course of the game, which seems reasonable. These survivors were on-task, but it's not suspect because of the sheer amount of time they had where you weren't pressuring them.
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This needs to be enabled as fast as possible. Games on Steam that do not have this change made will be marked as unsupported for Steam Deck/Linux, which may make future Steam Deck users hesitant to buy and play the game. Showing confidence in EAC on the Steam Deck in crucial to obtaining the trust of this new market of consumers.
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Bringing this back because I've been unable to play Dead by Daylight since the last midchapter. I've switched to linux full-time as part of my education, and I believed that it would be okay because dbd would be right behind me. I'm really desperate to get back into playing again (I went to some shady places today looking for help running it in a vm), but I really just want to play it through a standard proton layer.
Please make enabling Dead by Daylight for linux a priority. There's an entire market of users who could be spending time and money on this game who are currently unable to.
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+1
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335757#Comment_2335757
This doesn't quite tackle the '4 out of 5 = 0' problem, but I may have an idea for that, as it can tie in to the 'thicc buff'...
HEX: NOED
Once the fifth generator is completed, all remaining dull totems are converted into hex totems. This perk gains a token for every remaining hex totem, and loses a token for every hex that gets cleansed. For each token, the killer gains 3% haste and additional, cumulative benefits.
1 token: The entity blocks a hook when a survivor is put on it, disallowing rescues.
2 tokens: All survivors are exposed.
3 tokens: The killer can break pallets and walls with a basic attack, and any window that a survivor vaults becomes blocked indefinitely.
4 tokens: The killer sees the auras of survivors within 30 meters.
5 tokens: When a survivor enters the downed state, they are immediately sacrificed.
That way, it is weaker but still impactful at just one totem left. It is stronger at two totems left, and it is WAY stronger at 3 or more.
Then maybe we can also ditch keys and rework them into aura reading items with a special effect that makes them ping whenever a totem is within X meters, so that they have a function without demanding an add-on. Just so we have a green item to do soft totem hunting.
(Bolding is to give other readers a built in tl;dr by highlighting my main topic points, because I got wordy)
Something that I thought was really elegant about revealing the aura of destroyed totems is that aura reveals actually makes totem finding perks stronger. Small Game and Detective's have more strength because you only need to use them to search a small, select area, which they're both already attuned to. Finding the last two totems should be child's play in 80-90% of cases for someone who has basic knowledge of totem spawns, and only one survivor running one perk would be enough for the other 10-20%.
As an aside, I also think that all survivors should be able to see the builds of all other survivors in the lobby screen. Banners for certain issues, like "no totem tracking perks" and "no dying state recovery perks" would be great, too. Since I've long ago wandered into the territory of wishing for a unicorn for my birthday, I might as well keep going with said loadout displays.
Giving NOED a token system based on the remaining amount of dulls has merit in the current version of the game, where solos aren't able to communicate, but I fervently believe that, given aura reading and numerics to communicate totem progress, purple and red rank solos will be able to reliably cleanse all totems. I don't believe it's an unreasonable expectation. NOED will continue to be an equipable perk as well, so even if they don't cleanse all the totems, they might still benefit from the gamble that the killer doesn't have it.
I also quibble with the effects you chose on implementation, written below, but those concerns are all tangential to the primary point that even one totem remaining should, on principle, unleash NOED's full and overwhelming might. Indeed, even if the last totem takes slightly longer to find (especially without finding perks), that time should be considered part of the slowdown effect of NOED. Perhaps even every dull should be hexed with NOED when activated, requiring all to be cleansed to end the effect, but at minimum having one left should enact a full and mighty effect.
There are certain edge cases, yes. Totem placement in Swamp should be totally reworked, for example, while certain spots in all the indoor maps need adjustment. For example, there is a particular spawn on Leary's, where you must walk upstairs through the Theatre's main stairwell, take a left, run down the entire observation catwalk, and look behind a desk at the end. The spawn is also completely obstructed if the survivor takes the nearby drop-down. In other words, it is very far out of the way of any nearby gens, and invisible unless you look specifically for it. If that totem spot did not exist, I wouldn't shed a tear.
My ideal example of a totem spawn is that specific totem spawn in the asylum long-wall jungle gyms. They're concealed completely by debris, but they're never too far out of the way for a survivor to check, and there's always one that spawns in those cubby areas per match, so survivors should know to check them. Not too far out of your way, but also not visible at a distance. That's my ideal totem. Certain spawns like totems being next to trees in the middle of a deadzone are too visible, and the Leary's example are too far out of the way.
Between the numeric, the aura, and some spawn tweaks, all survivor teams should be able to find all totems, all the time.
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Re: Tokens
Finding the first one or even two totems also tends to be eminently simple. Even now, one or two totems are often cleansed per game for the sake of bloodpoints alone. Inner Strength also rewards cleanses and doesn't require much in the way of searching to use. As a consequence, your 5 and 4 token proposals will never practically see use. Maybe on a map like Leary's and when every survivor has been so negligent as to not bring a single totem couter, as many as 3 tokens can be expected at medium-skill play to ever exist.
Problematically, the one token effect has very limited usability. Trying to down them without exposed introduces risks after the exit gates is powered, especially against a bodyblocking team that has Adrenaline or endgame perks of their own. Not only that, but because it's endgame, the survivor is free to pre-throw every remaining pallet. You need much more than 3% haste to turn highly safe loops into unsafe loops. It would do the trick for moderate safety loops, but those are also the rarest kind. Most loops are either very safe or unsafe. Even if you do then get the hook, if the survivor that you hook is on deathook, then the 1 token effect has provided no value, besides that 3% haste, a lesser haste value compared to current NOED.
When they aren't dead, as I've previously outlined, finding the last totem should be simple enough for a competent team, considering that the survivors can search for the totem even while you're still chasing and downing the first post-NOED survivor. Even without any totem finder perks to speak of, that totem should be found within the minute, before the hook state progresses.
At two tokens it gives another haste and a chance to go on the offensive by allowing realistic possibilities of downs without losing the hook, but if the second token gets cleansed, that will be taken as a sign by killer players to return to the hook in preparation for the last totem to be cleansed. This chain of thought would counterintuitively cause this perk to encourage camping. The only difference between this and normal camping would be that the killer would have a wider acceptable radius that they would be willing to pursue a survivor away from the hook.
This also means that if both are cleansed near to simultaneously to each other, you don't actually get that warning. This means that even at two tokens left, you're actually still in surprising danger of losing the hook, if you're walking toward a given last known location, one survivor is at totem one, one is at totem two, and the third sneaks to hook; or if one totem is close to the hook, and a survivor is working on the other.
Another elegant aspect of my solutions is that they provide almost no benefit to swfs while strongly buffing solos. This interrupts that philosophy, as only a perfectly coordinated team could accomplish this strategy. As a consequence of this strategy existing, killers may be more defensive than you anticipate in regards to defending hooks and downs, whereas something like the idea of giving aura reading within a radius of an exit switch while "ubercharged" would promote hyper-offensive playstyles because the killer knows about the potential for a running/team bodyblock escape. Even at 1 token, bodyblocking and other swf-ish behavior is buffed by your suggestion.
Any implementation of NOED under this scheme must promote hyper-offensive playstyles by allowing killers to rest secure in the knowledge that they are doing more damage per second than survivors could reasonably recover, damage which will be at least half bankable even if NOED is lost or another specialized counter is introduced.
Only at 3 tokens can the killer be certain that the hooked survivor is secure. Now with 9% haste, certain loops of moderate safety become unsafe. Breaking pallets with a weapon ala Cannibal while blocking windows would be useful to create a deadzone, but the window blocks are almost pointless in the long term because totems really aren't that hard to find, and it'd be useless in the short term because 9% haste is normally enough to play around windows anyway. I can see a world where survivors don't even throw pallets against 3 tokens of NOED, because they'd rather save it for later when there's no exposed and the pallet break buys more time.
As I've said before though, I would expect even Green survivors to be able to get two totems over the course of the match, as long as there's a proper totem tutorial and one of them either has good knowledge or a totem finding perk. In exchange for making all totems easier to find, these buffs wouldn't be sufficient to compensate NOED, and even if they were, I'm fundamentally opposed to a token system on the grounds that survivors can rightfully be expected to find every totem.
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Re: Keys
Maps already ping with add-ons and they already track in base kit. Even when keys are reworked, I think they should stay firmly as aura reading on teammates or on the killer. Giving key free Windows of Opportunity sounds more like their wheelhouse to me. Totems and pinging both are more the domain of maps.
A green item that can track totem auras is important though. I think giving maps a base alternate mode that shows totems but burns three times as fast would work. Something like press m5 while the ability is channeling and you're standing still. Red Twine would still have a place by making the map last longer, then.
Certain forms of pinging for communication e.g. "I'm on a gen!" should be base kit, imo, no key required.
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In fairness to opposition to my arguement, a nightmare scenario of my own making has occurred to me, that a killer might stand still and guard the final remaining totem when there's only 3 gens left. To counter this, I'd suggest doing the totems before the final gen to avoid the killer improvising this strat, or leave the furthest gens from that totem for last while having a survivor wait at the gate in anticipation if the killer is clearly planning this from the onset. The buff to NOED would have to somehow at least be asynergistic if not anti-synergistic to such a strategy, or else a perk would have to be especially made to counter that. Disabling certain benefits of the perk within a certain distance of the totem might be the best course of action.
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In conclusion, I reassert that survivors can be expected to do all totems with my proposed changes, certain god-spawns and trash-spawns for totems should be removed to mitigate the occurrence of edge cases, and tokens systems where token 1 is not overwhelming undermine NOED's purpose to act as deterrent and slowdown.
I also argue against a specific token implementation system despite my primary opposition to them being on principle. If tokens ever were to be implemented, 90% of the effects should be at one token, and other tokens should provide a smaller incremental scaling effect, like haste.
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I do wonder if there should be a surrender button for survivors, where if all of the living survivors press it, the killer instantly gets the remaining sacrifice points and the No One Escaped score event. Sounds like it could be nice for survivors, but I'm not certain that there's a problem with this that I'm overlooking.
Maybe there could be a social engineering problem where introducing the possibility of surrender makes survivors more likely to give up even if their team is still trying. Or make survivors surrender on winnable but tedious situations, like stacked slowdown Legion. Sounds like it would need rigorous playtesting on unsuspecting subjects, which can be hard to do. Maybe implement it on live for exactly two days, and then compare the data to see if the amount of surrendered games that should've been winnable is worth the player inconvenience of enduring 4-man slugs for four minutes? Hard to say.
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Keep in mind that the forums are more likely to contain hardcore players, who are more likely to like horror games in general as well as play other games to understand guest chapters. The forums also contain more PC players, who typically have more money, a higher percentage of adult players, and easier accessibility to RE2 through Steam sales and more convenient downloads.
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I think that there are two things that need to be done for NOED to be a functional perk. As @Firellius has said, NOED currently fails as a timewaster perk because it incentivizes noting and saving totems rather than actually cleansing them. This is the strat as a consequence of several other problems: 1) other survivors can't be counted on to do totems; 2) doing four totems often leaves the final totem as the one that was spawned as the most well-hidden, causing NOED to be immortal barring a survivor grid searching the trial with Small Game; and 3) NOED isn't actually dangerous enough to justify the time wasted cleansing totems because it's only typically able to secure one additional down.
The problem of issue 1 is interestingly self-reinforcing. Survivors can't be trusted to do totems, and the reason why survivors can't be trusted to do their fair of totems is because they don't trust you to do your fair share of totems. So, you won't do totems because you should either do all of the totems or none of them, and if the other survivors won't help you do all of them, then you should do none of them.
The answer to this is to introduce communication and accountability among the team. A base kit numerical HUD counter of totems that remain standing in the trial. Survivors that do cleanse totems now know that they aren't wasting their time in the trial, and survivors that haven't cleansed one yet both know that it won't be wasted effort if they do, and they also feel a mild peer pressure if they continue to fail to do totems. This solution also has the added benefit of reducing the gap between solo and swf play.
2 is a much less straightforward problem to solve, but I think I've got an idea. Essentially, something needs to happen to make it so that the last one (or even two) totems standing in the map cannot be in any hypothetical location that a totem could be. There's simply too much space for survivors to grid search the entire trial if there's one god-totem spawn.
One possibility is to make the dull totem cleanse snap a global sound effect, and cause a broken totem's aura to be visible to all survivors for seven seconds. This means that a group of solo survivors are able to see the location of all completed totems and exclude nearby areas from any future totem search. This is also something that swfs can do base kit, by simply communicating where a totem was broken, so it's not taking anything from killers that swf doesn't already. For solos, survivors with small game only have to search a limited area, and survivors with Detective's Hunch can try to do the gen closest to the uncleansed zone, assuming this broken aura hint wasn't enough to give it away already. This also reduces the gap between solo and swf play. Depending on playtesting, this aura may or may not be affected by blindness. On one hand, Third Seal needs some love. On the other... well, see item 3.
I'm actually a killer main myself, so naturally item 3 is where I get to have fun. The solution to NOED not actually being strong enough to justify the time sink is self-apparent: give NOED a phat, gargantuan, dummy T H I C C buff. There's half a dozen ways you can do this; it's an area where the devs could really exercise their creativity. I sleep on a 4% haste, I wake on a 15% haste status effect. Miss me with that exposed on basic attacks--I want that exposed on all attacks, from all damage sources, all the time--Endurance has no power here. No room for Infectious Fright, 'cuz my bae, my honey NOED gives aura reading within 16 meters of the killer, and within 8 meters of any gate switch. I should be spending more time carrying survivors to hook than I should in downing them once in chase. I want NOED to be the kind of oppressive that survivors currently think it is.
More seriously, none of these proposed changes are necessarily the right change, but the important part is that there is a buff, and that the buff is massive. All else is specifics that I would lead to the dev team, or that I would be willing to argue separately, with the understanding that any given disagreement over the manner of the buff bears no relevance to the underlying concept that a large buff to NOED corrects the power imbalances caused by the alterations for items 1 and 2.
Survivors should get their number counter of totems, and auras to tell them where all the cleansed totems have been, all on top of any of the 3 locator perks; and if they still chose not to cleanse totems against a killer that has it, then NOED should body them for their mistake. Because this will basically declare open season on all totems, certain other hex perks may need to be mildly buffed to retain their strength.
There's only one caveat to this scheme, which is that low-rank players will struggle to understand how to execute this. I haven't played the new tutorials yet, because I'm saving the bp for the next killer that I take a shine to, but I think a quick NOED/totem tutorial for survivor would be best. Something like starting it with the survivor at a high vantage point with all totems highlighted as they spawn with a map. Give a brief explanation of maps, Small Game, and the totem number counter. Have them drop from the vantage point to a gen with an active Hex: Huntress's Lullaby (since that's the only gen-affecting free hex perk), then have 3 bots do 3 other dulls as the player finishes, with an instruction to note the location of cleansed dull totems.
Then instruct the player to search for the final dull using the map and small game. Maybe when they get started on cleansing it, a bot finishes an example gen and another survivor bot instantly goes down to the NOED, to emphasize its importance. This also can be used as a learning opportunity to explain what Exposed does. I know that a lot of first-time players think exposed means that their aura is revealed or similar. The tutorial ends when they cleanse the NOED.
This really shouldn't take too long. A minute to make pop-ups about maps, Small Game, and NOED. 14 seconds to cleanse, then touch the almost completed gen. I'd say that the survivor should be put on rails leading them to the last dull/NOED, using the Bloodwarden bars that the tutorial uses. 10 or 15 seconds of travel later, they cleanse another totem, then end scene.
It sounds like a lot to explain to a new player, but you don't actually have to explain the complex theory behind it. They just need to know to do totems, that totems have assigned areas that won't overlap with each other, and that NOED activating is very bad. New players never really play the game correctly anyway, part of being new is making mistakes, and eventually they will become better and understand how to interact with the totem system.
The gap between solos and swfs is narrowed, all Hex totems are more interactive, cleansing totems in general is easier and now has a fun, zoning puzzle element to it, the method of handling NOED is more explained and intuitive for new players, and NOED remains a strong perk that does an even better job of delivering on heights of the killer power fantasy. Everyone's happy.
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EGC does its job adequately. What really and truly upsets me is that, to this day, Pig has received no buff to compensate for the nerf they gave her in that patch. Her traps used to automatically turn on if a survivor was given one after all the gens were done, which allowed the Pig to extend a lost game into something workable. Now, if a Pig hasn't used all her rbt's by endgame, she basically has half of her kit dead. I just want a compensatory buff for that uncalled for nerf to an already low tier killer.
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It's worth noting that Surge and any other perk that causes a generator to explode renders the gen inadvanceable for 3 seconds, causing all survivors on the gen to be unable to progress it. Maybe put a little "*" on Surge with a "*=causes a generator to explode" footnote?
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The solution to camping isn't to punish the killer, but it's also unreasonable to say that survivors should be able to consistently know that the killer is camping and bust out all the gens in time. This is a prime example of why dbd needs to have a ping wheel that survivors can communicate with. That is the very best solution. Once the ping wheel is implemented, facecampers will seldom meet a team of solo queues that reward their behavior and throw themselves at the hook. The entire strategy will die because it is won't be viable, and no survivors will have to deal with it because the killers will know that it's not viable.
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I don't appreciate the phrasing on this poll. What does bad mean in this context? Is it a measure of strength? Are you talking about bad for the game's health? Or could you mean that it's bad manners? Even if you were clear, all of these questions have been argued to death already.
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I think that it's possible that the devs didn't add overheat because they thought that Billy needed it, but instead to standardize the design of killer powers. It's occurred to me that the last killer to not have an overheat-like mechanic of any kind was Pig (or arguably Clown and Slinger), and that includes all the reworked killers.
Trickster charges up Main Event, Blight and Bubba recover Rush tokens, PH has a trail bar, rework Nurse has Blink charges, Slinger has a reload (arguable, I know, but look at the rest of this list), rework Doctor has Blast cooldown, Oni has a blood bar, rework Freddy has projection cooldown, Demo has portal cooldown, Ghost has Shroud recovery, Plague has Corrupt Purge, Legion has Frenzy duration, and Spirit has Haunting duration.
(I suppose you could argue that Wraith is an exception, but he didn't even get a full add-on pass rework. He did get buffs and a new mechanic, but he received very little changes compared to any other killer the devs have changed. He even had to share his slot with Clown, who did receive a lot of changes.)
If it's given that reloading on Slinger or Clown is comparable to a power recharge in a token system, then the last killer to be released or reworked with no charge bar of any kind was Pig. Look deeper at PH, Demo, Trickster, and Nurse. All of them having charge bars is a strange design decision. Demo's only really serves to annoy you if a survivor performs an unhook immediately after you portal away, otherwise the bar has no impact on gameplay. PH's bar doesn't actually do anything to stop him, because he only needs a sliver of charge to PotD. Main Event isn't worth it to use a lot of the time, and it feels like the ult is there to check a box off that says "has an ult/charge bar." Nurse's bar isn't much different than if they just made her fatigue last longer, but they went for a convoluted token system instead. Billy also follows this group of nearly pointless cooldowns.
Looking at this evidence, it makes sense to me that sometime around Pig's release, someone on the team decided that it would be the pinnacle of game design if every killer had either a power cooldown bar or a power spike bar in their kit. As they've made the game, that means shoving in cooldowns and power bars all over the place where they wouldn't otherwise be.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
Twins, Pyramid Head, possibly Blight, Plague, and maybe Bubba.
Charlotte only kills to protect Victor. I would assume that humans are better able to take care of fragile little babies than some spider monster in the sky. Pyramid Head exists as the incorporeal embodiment of the subconscious desire for self-inflicted justice. He punishes the guilty, and among the killers' ranks, there are plenty. Clown is wanted by the fashion police and the rest are all felons. Blight only kills because he's too jacked up on pustula petals (a little diddy called addiction, fits in with the Opium War-era lore), so if Claudette puts her major in botany to any use they might be able to bribe him, Plague is driven only by her mindless devotion to her perceived god. She won't ever become disillusioned with her ideals, that's just how hubris works, but if any of the survivors are Mormons and have a bible with them, I'm sure Plague has a moment to talk about our lord and savior Jeff Christ. Bubba is pretty nice, in the movies, and only kills because his family is awful. He's one of those cases where kindness elicits kindness.
As someone who hasn't played Silent Hill, I wonder how Pyramid Head would react to someone who has done great evil but feels no guilt. Ghostface, Doctor, and Clown are all true psychopaths who feel no empathy or remorse. As a cluster of emotion, how does he react to people that don't feel the emotion that constitutes his existence?
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After any given rift closes is a good time to take a break from dbd and play something else. You're not exactly getting rift fragments or daily xp bonuses for rift fragments when there's no rift, and dailies only need to be done once every four if you still care about bloodpoints. I've been playing the Resident Evil HD remaster for the upcoming chapter. I've discovered that it was a mistake to use Chris on my first playthrough, but by the time I realized, I was already too far and didn't want to swap. I've also got the RE:2 remake, RE:4, and Biohazard. I've never played these games before, and it'll help me to get more understanding of the RE chapter when it comes out. They're also, of course, legendary pieces of gaming art that deserve to be appreciated for their historical value alone. I would've done something similar for Silent Hill if it had more than two weeks notice and didn't require a full-scale emulator in order to be run on modern hardware.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2123987#Comment_2123987
And people are emotional about their items a lot :D And therefore I find it useful. I never claimed to have the universally correct opinion on this perk. Like and use what you will :)
But you're arguing that it shouldn't be buffed based on the fact that being territorial of the item is currently a strong enough use case. You can't just dodge the issue by saying that it's all a subjective opinion while still maintaining that it's strong enough as is.
What would the great tragedy be if survivors weren't allowed to nullify an entire perk by dropping the item before they're hit? When I play survivor with a key, I don't hold ever hold onto it. I immediately find somewhere safe and drop that key, even before knowing if the killer has Franklin's. Is that skillful play? Is that a enough of a giga-brained strat that I deserve to kill an enemy perk slot?
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Rural Midwest American. Sometimes my times get much worse, typically at night. I'm not sure what the cause is, but my ping hovers around 170 if it's having one of those episodes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2123967#Comment_2123967
Of course, I would never ever discount generator defense to hoard items :D
What I meant was more "I just saw this flashlight behind this rock and now it's not there" when I happen to be in the area. It happens surprisingly often that survivors just won't give up on the items and die for them. Even seemingly strong teams.
That doesn't make Franklin's Demise good, it just means that those teams misplay because they become emotional about their items.