What's up with the large amount of LGBTQ posts all of a sudden.
I dont understand it that much. I'm not trying to be mean or anything but this is a game about doing gens and murdering people. Why should the gender/sexuality of these characters be so important. The characters in this game dont even speak. What is the need for them to represent certain sexualities?
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If anyone complains about something like that their complaint is so idiotic it's usually not worth listening to.
I agree with you, but nobody complained about anything like that. Seem @EvilJoshy was speaking hypothetically. At least that's what I gather from his response to me asking who said that.
The thing that annoys me is that adding LGBT characters to the game or revealing some of the characters have been LGBT is literally such a non-issue that you actively have to try to go out of your way to find a problem with it.
Most of the people who are trying to are failing miserably.
1) People saying the gameplay is all that should matter and all of this is unimportant completely missed the fact that if it's so unimportant to you why do you care just continue playing like you normally do.
2) People who are saying it shouldn't be in a horror game about killing or torture completely missed the fact that relationships have been a staple of most franchises. For example Silent hill 2 literally has you looking for your dead wife confirming a straight relationship in a horror
3) Some people have used the word retcon without actually knowing what the hell it means. Seeming to fail at grasping that if nothing is established yet ( for example Min's sexuality) establishing it is not a retcon.
Throughout all the threads I've seen and all the Twitter posts I have yet to see one person make a reasonable argument as to why it shouldn't be included.
Lmao now your putting words in my mouth for no reason. I said people dont like. How is me saying people dont like FORCED lgbt roles in games saying lgbt roles shouldnt be in games. Forcing something down someone's throat =/ introducing or reminding someone about something. This is the thing alot of people dont like about the LGBT community. Any criticism that they receive is automatically them not being welcome or wanted in their eyes. No one is gonna get mad from a gay character being added in. people will however get angry when they're reminded every 5 seconds that a character is gay and it's being shoved down their throats. I still dont understand how you got gay people dont belong in the game from that.
Gaining your own meaning from what someone said isnt specific either lmao. Tf is wrong with you?
That's not how the devs did it for any other character except Frank and Julie, so there's a good precedent that that's how they'll do it for others as well.
Frank and Julie, for the record, received zero complaints, despite their expanded lore being focused on their relationship, shoving their straightness down our throats every other sentence.
Julie and Frank being in a relationship actually made sense to the character lore and it wasnt the entire basis for the legion as a killer. I'm gonna give an example just because your not understanding. The devs pretty much did this
"Julie and frank are dating. Julie and frank were high school sweethearts. Moving on" instead of "the entire basis of the legion is built on julie and Frank's relationship. Julie and Frank's relationship is the reason the four killers banded together. Did we mention julie and Frank are dating." The entire reason people are confused and complaining is because the media and many companies like Netflix are doing the second example instead of the first. It would be fine if it was "(insert character name here) was on a jog with her wife when she got separated in a Forrest within the entities mist and came out the other side infront of a camp fire." Instead of this current Entertainment does "(insert character name here) was jogging home from her pride parade with her wife. Both of them were wearing matching rainbow headbands. When suddenly the fog surrounded her leaving her wife behind. The fog made the LGBTQ facepaint on (insert character name here)'s face start to run"
People are fine with a gay character. They dont however like a character being gay their only characteristic.
Did you actually read Frank and Julie's lore? Seriously, go read it. What you're complaining about that they're totally gonna do with LGBT characters is exactly how they did it with Frank and Julie. I'll give you a couple handy links:
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Frank,_Julie,_Susie,_Joey#Lorehttps://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Tome_III_-_Escalation#Julie_Kostenko:_Soldiers_of_Mayhem
I see what you mean there I guess. Judging from how they've written frank and julie they're most likely gonna do the second option. It does suck how they've centered a majority of legion lore around those 2 instead of really giving suzie and joey more writing.
Frank and Julie were the exception. Every other character has had very small mentions of their exes or crushes or whatever. My point is that Frank and Julie's lore was expanded in precisely the way everyone says is bad, yet nobody batted an eye. However, when it's about LGBT characters, without even knowing how the devs are going to do it, suddenly everyone cries out.
I said something similar to another forumgoer, but I'd like to ask you to put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Every single complaint people have made about the quality of the LGBT character's hypothetical lore (keep in mind nothing has been released thus far, not even their name) is present in Frank and Julie's real lore. However, Frank and Julie received zero backlash, whereas the LGBT character's hypothetical lore is receiving a ######### ton of backlash, including from people who don't even read or care about the lore in the first place. How am I to assume this is anything other than thinly veiled excuses to exclude LGBT people from the game when the things they complain about are already in the game, yet received zero complaints?
Whether its lgbt or not tho I honestly dont think the game should focus on killers relationships. We have 4 of the entities killing machines. Devoid of emotion. Were already aware the 4 characters have a strong relationship. It would make more sense to expand on the characters childhood and events leading up the the group killing.
That's not the point I'm trying to make. Again, put yourself in my shoes for a minute and try to see things from my point of view, as I explained it. Can you see why some people might interpret these complaints in a certain way?
Yeah I understand what you're saying. It's as if people dont want lgbt lore because of lgbt in general. Its hypocritical to encourage hetero relationships but not homo. I get what you mean. Some people just arent used to and accustomed to change in certain areas or just dont like the change in general. Because of the way other forms of media handled it alot of people dont like forced lgbt. This is what I was saying earlier. The whole point of the controversy is people dont like change.
Thank you! Finally, someone willing to see things from a different PoV.
With that in mind, every single LGBT person will likely agree with you about the issue of LGBT characters vs. characters who are LGBT. We have the same concern - characters are created to be LGBT and it becomes their defining characteristic, as opposed to characters who are created and then also happen to be LGBT. We understand that nobody likes that (ourselves included).
The issue right now is completely unrelated to that. The issue is what I said and what I've been saying these past couple of days: every single complaint people are making also applies to other stuff already present in the game. However, none of these things seemed to have been an issue back then, so why now? That is the problem, that people are treating this differently seemingly because it's about LGBT. That is why many of us are upset.
We share your concerns about the possibility of poor writing, tokenism, etc.. We just ask that LGBT-related things be treated the same way other things already in the game were treated: fairly, and without making a big deal out of it.
In the books that scene was relevant. Pennywise goes into hibernation every so often and an act of great violence causes him to wake up. A bunch of homophobes beating up a couple because they are ghey is an act of racism/sexism whichever it's called. It acts as the catalyst to wake him up and start the 2nd half of the book. In the movie they didn't go over that much. I think they just did it in the movie as a tribute to the book.
Yeah, the only issue with that scene is that they didn't tie it to the book's explanation. Other than that, I thought it was an accurate representation of what it's like to be LGBT in certain countries (or certain parts of certain countries). The brutality was the point and the fact that people were disgusted should prompt them to do more for the LGBT community in those places.
Hell, they took it a step further then hinted that the Legion may have had group sex with each other. No one had a problem.
Excuse me? Where?
I agree except for one thing, people did complain here about Yui Kimura and Jane even, they said it was too much and I quote "social justice crap" or "feminist stuff" I recall a thread about a dude whining because Yui was a "strong female character" thus injecting politics in the game or some mumbo jumbo these people of their ilk spout out. Anything that lean toward the more progressive side of things are complained about here.
Bro racism=act of hate against a person because of race/ thinking your better then a race. Sexism is thinking your better or hating a certain gender. Homophobia is hate involving gay people. Did you not know the difference between those?
I for one think change is very good for the game.There will always be something some people like and others don’t like.Those who don’t like change can either except what’s coming or you can just leave and never return.You make the decision yourself but if you make a bunch of irrelevant raging post it won’t stop the devs from doing what they decided.
No, I don't. Which is why I said "whichever it's called". Thank you for clearing that up :P
No problem
Can't just be happy the devs are doing something nice huh?
"Frank saw it as an opportunity to shape their lack of experience into something powerful. He lined up nights of debauchery and rampage, testing their limits. Bullying, vandalism, and theft were essentially their weekend plans. It came to a point where they would do anything he asked."
This shocked the hell out of me when I read it lol. I was amazed no one else caught that.
Tbh I don't see that as being about group sex. It's definitely possible to interpret it that way, but that's not how I see it unless there is something else in the text I'm missing.
"Debauchery" doesn't necessarily mean sex. Everything illegal they did that's mentioned by name is technically a form of debauchery.
I wanted to be absolutely sure and I could be wrong still so I looked up the definition prior to posting the quote.
de·bauch·er·y
/dəˈbôCHərē/
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noun
But I also sound this too
: extreme indulgence in bodily pleasures and especially sexual pleasures : behavior involving sex, drugs, alcohol, etc. that is often considered immoral
… he was glad when others joined them, men and women; and they had more drink and spent the night in wild rioting and debauchery.
So you could definitely be right. The stuff they did could fit into debauchery. I guess Behavior wasn't as spicy or bold as I thought they were. I was like "Wow, they are actually going there."
It's possible. Legion might secretly be the game's first polyamorous relationship. 😳
Survivor: "You killed me cuz im gay. I will report you!"
Pyramid head:Everyone get their judgment on Sillent Hill
I just feel like the devs wouldn't add sexual references to the game.
Big corporations do exploit marginalized people and commodify progressive causes for financial and social capital. Paying lip service towards injustices instead of doing their part to prevent the systematic causes of said injustices. That being, you're not concerned about that at all aren't you? You are basically concern trolling. Your main issue is "force diversity" you just don't want any gay ######### in your video game.
I think everybody knows Behavior isn't our friend, they provide a service that we pay for. They "pander" by making use of our nostalgia for old horror movies or our love for certain characters, it's how they sell new characters and skins. Alienating your potential market is the dumbest thing you could do. Why do you have an issue now lol?
That'd ######### own. I have always shipped them as such anyway. lol
Yeah, it's annoying.
I feel you. That outta the way, I'm glad I had an opportunity to converse with you. I've been a lurker before I finally gave in then made an account. I happen to enjoy your posts and style of debate.
Sounds like negativity to me. Sure they announced they are including lgbt characters but that doesn't automatically mean its pandering. Do you just hate on the devs just to hate? Cause what if this is genuine and out of the kindness in their hearts?
Gay people and lesbians are used for a lot of peoples' gain these days. Many of those I have spoken with know they're being used to push the social justice agenda and that they are patronized as a form of marketing by major corporations that couldn't care any less about them. It's not like they're in any position to do anything about it since it's their "allies" that are doing it. Who can they turn to when they're being exploited by people that claim to support them?
I hadn't read the Legion rift lore until you posted this, the relationship stuff in that is so cliche and lame. I really hope any detail they use for any relationship going forward is better than that.
I love that meme!
why even make a post? it's just extra detail about the character you like that's it? Is it outrageous one of them might like the same sex? lol
All of those games have political themes. None of them had minimum positive reinforcement quotas.
And keep in mind, even though that's one of the major complaints about the LGBT characters' hypothetical lore, when it came out in regards to a heterosexual couple, there were zero complaints. If you'll read my comment after the one you quoted, you'll see why LGBT people are upset.
I thought the issue was that games were getting political. Now getting political is fine?
Oh please do show me where I used the word "political" in this thread before this post. Yet again you amaze me with your ability to pay absolutely zero attention to anything anyone else says.
So are you OK with games getting political? It's a simple question.
And excuse me if I can't tell you all apart half the time when you basically make the same "complaints".
“Videogames should not get political“ is a common argument used against LGBT+ representation in DbD on this forum. You can’t expect anyone to memorize every single argument you or anyone else has made against LGBT+ When they are all far-fetched and basically boil down to „I don’t want gay stuff in my game“.
No, it's a loaded question. Get a grip. The word "political" has applications so nebulous that the question is utterly meaningless and has no point. Furthermore, no, I won't excuse you because it's inexcusable. You don't reply to someone by ignoring everything they say and constructing an argument for them to walk into. Shameful.
Pretty much, especially with how we have a limited pool of avatars to choose from. I actively avoid reading names until after I've replied (if ever) just so I can stay unbiased.
Oh a common argument huh? You mean a strawman you can burn on a hill in effigy of actual people's arguments? How convenient for people who want to seem enlightened and understanding but instead actually just operate off of a simple system of rhetorical devices and logic fallacies.
Same! It sums up the reactionary fanbase within the gaming circles entirely, especially the low hanging fruit here.