What's up with the large amount of LGBTQ posts all of a sudden.
I dont understand it that much. I'm not trying to be mean or anything but this is a game about doing gens and murdering people. Why should the gender/sexuality of these characters be so important. The characters in this game dont even speak. What is the need for them to represent certain sexualities?
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I don't consider LGBT or inclusion on the whole to be a political thing, but rather a thing that certain groups want to make political. "Political" to me means referencing actual politics, like economic systems and systems of government.
With that definition in mind, are you OK with games getting political?
So if you don't consider them political, and I never said anything about politics, who and what are you arguing against exactly? Why even bring it up? I'll tell you why: Because you've working down a list of ways to bait people into saying things that make you look like a victim.
Dude, I've been doing nothing except capitulate to you. You said you didn't say anything about games getting political, so I simply asked you for your opinion. Then you said "political" was a nebulous term, so I defined it as I see it. Even still, you can't answer a simple question because no matter what I say, you think it's all part of some plot against you.
EDIT: This is why I just said "OK" to you (I think it was you, anyway) during one of our conversations, because you can't converse in a normal manner. You behave as if you believe everything and everyone is against you.
Because the question is an insult to my intelligence. Any game with a government in it that does something for some reason is political. Grand Strategy Games are political. Science fiction first person shooters where the player is a soldier in a military? Political. A game where you play as an ecological terrorist saving the planet from an evil corporation? Political. A game where you are an assassin? Political. What exact kind of response to you expect to get? Oh right, a simple one. Well how's this for simple: It's an irrelevant question.
It is a common argument made in the past few days on these forums.
i scrolled through this thread and your argument basically is that corporations exploit LGBT+ people for their own gain and don’t care for them. (wat?). You are right. YOU didn’t say politics shouldn’t be in videogames in this thread. But I didn’t say you did, but you made nice assumptions about me. Thanks.
I expect a yes/no response because it's a yes/no question, the same way I'd expect a complex answer to a complex question. However, this is a simple matter of getting your opinion on a subject, so a simple question about whether you're OK with X, Y, Z is more than enough once X, Y, Z is defined.
Many people on this forum have expressed that they don't like games "getting political". Hell, there's an entire thread about it in the off-topic section. Why is it an insult to your intelligence to ask you for your opinion on the subject?
Oh, did you feel included in the group I described? Well I didn't actively include you so, I just kind of assumed you wouldn't feel included. You know? 😉
So go argue with those "many people" instead of trying to press me to argue on their behalf.
I'm asking for an opinion, JFC. I'm a curious person by nature.
No one has strawmanned you, your arguments are just bad. Cringe even. I can't tell if you're dog whistling, some paranoid fringe nut, or aren't as savvy in social issues which would be fine, we've all been there but you've been saying crazy ######### like "positive reinforcement quota" "social agenda" and concerned troll about how corporations were using the LGBT community for funds, when you've made it abundantly clear that you're not interested in that you just don't want any gay stuff in your game. You contradicted yourself with the whole social agenda nonsense and anyone with half a brain and basic reading skills could pick up on that. Hell someone even tried the same argument you did then fell on their face as well.
You were directly responding to my message and referred to the group with „you“ but you didn’t intend to include me? Are you serious?
I gave you most of an explanatory answer. I do not respect the premise because the word "political" itself is too variable in meaning to matter. Most games get political in some capacity. It can mean anything from satire to social commentary and so on. Any time a form of government is an actor in a narrative the game is political. It's not specific enough as a descriptor for the argument to have traction.
Now, if you'll indulge me making a few assumptions and maybe devil's advocate I could jury rig some kind of real argument of that fashion. Dead By Daylight itself is essentially apolitical, at least in practice. The Entity is an extradimensional horror, no government holds sway in the trials, and the lore is just fluff. Political concepts in the same space as an apolitical environment can cause a clash of aesthetic or even destruction of immersion if handled poorly.
Like I said, bit of gymnastics stringing that together but maybe that's what they're worried about and can't express it.
So you take a noun out of one sentence so you can get outraged over a description in another? Are you serious? You're trying real hard to offend yourself. 😂
I explained what I meant by "political" and asked for a yes/no question under that definition. You haven't answered, at all.
Then I guess you're not going to get an answer because to me it's not a yes or no question. The concept is too broad for such simplicity. It's nothing but pure reductionism and I have no respect for reductionism.
I explicitly defined the concept so it wouldn't be so broad, but you can't even acknowledge that. Amazing.
Were did I do that though? Or am I misinterpreting that „you“ again and you are not talking to me?
I'd suggest you look into how second person pronouns can be used in a sentence before you go getting yourself all huffy about "you"s.
You know what I love about this conversation? You really just can't take someone shrugging their shoulders as an answer. I've already communicated to you that almost all games are political. My opinion doesn't matter. Games are political all the time. Whether I'm okay with it is utterly irrelevant, so I do not care. Neither yes nor no. I reject the question. Is that really so hard to understand?
I mean this statement, maybe I misunderstood it because of language barrier. then I apologize. But since you answered to my post directly I assume naturally that I was meant.
edit: but then again you can revise your stand about the mentioning of the politics topic, which you assumed Orion meant directly you when they just wanted to clarify your stand on the general politics topic in this context.
Ah, language barrier. Well, let me see if I can clarify: A common tactic in rhetoric is to bait your opponent into talking about something you've prepared ahead of time. One method of this is to use a previous argument as a model, in this case a strawman about "games being political." This method allows one to exert control over the course of an argument. For example, demanding a yes or no answer to an overly simplistic question allows someone to have a prepared response to both possible answers. Control is established over the flow of the dialogue. Internet sophistry is elaborate.
OK.
He won't answer. He thinks it's a trap, so he "loses" if he answers the question.
yeah I figured that from what he wrote.
the whole „LGBT+ people get exploited with the inclusion in a videogame“ already seemed paranoid.
I hope lack of complaints are because people are waiting to have all parts unlocked before they read it (that's normally what I do) because it's pretty bad and cringey. I can only think fans of Twilight would enjoy that lore. I was one saying don't do relationship stories like this because really I don't want it for anyone. Seeing Julie and Frank's just solidifies that and I really hope they stay away from doing it again for anyone. The mentioning of relationships (nurse husband, David gf) and focusing on other stuff way more enjoyable than that crappy teen angst love story. I am glad I read that link though, now I'm not going to put in effort to unlock the rest of her story because of how bad it is.
THANK YOU FOR INCLUDING FINAL FANTASY 7! So many dumbfucks who still give no shits about climate change caused by ecoabusive corporations and manufacturers!
Nope, it's because the majority of people don't read or care about the lore. Unless that lore is said to include LGBT, because then it becomes a deeply important issue for everyone.
Or they use lore when an outfit they don't like wins. 😂
Like I said somewhere else, this isn't going to impact gameplay unless those characters get a big old pride flag flashing above them. The cosmetics do more for gameplay than lore does, and plenty of cosmetics don't match up with the lore. I'd like them to give characters good lore instead of some cringey cliche crap, but even if they do that it's not going to change the gameplay.
If you are going to be like that then make it so no gay representation and keep it all straight would you like that? Like damn giving the devs ######### for everything they do.
Because the vocal minority want to be “represented” in areas where it doesn’t really matter. And if you exclude said minorities they will throw a hissy fit.
I’ve barely given a second thought to the character’s backstories in DBD since it’s a repetitive 4v1 with no world-building outside of the mumble cutscenes that come with the Tome challenges. Lore has little to no bearing on the enjoyment (or frustration, depending on the player) of the actual gameplay.
We could have 20 straight white survivors and the game would still be about working on gens, looping killers to oblivion, killers facecamping and/or mori-ing off of first hook, etc.
Why does David King need to be bisexual or gay? He doesn’t. If someone wants to fantasize about him then that’s their prerogative and none of our business. But in my opinion the devs shouldn’t force sexualities on characters to “make a statement” or show that “they care”... because apparently it sounds like they made a boo boo on Twitter and now have to include LGBTQXYZ characters or people will go ballistic.
Look at the recent posts about lgbt and a bunch of forum members not hard to find.
Loud minority.
If it doesn’t matter, why not just include LGBT. As you stated it doesn’t matter.
also why include straight relationships? Wouldn’t matter at all. But here we are.
there is no harm in this inclusion. Either you are happy about it, or you don’t care, or you have something against it.
I’m of the camp that prefers no backstory to the characters sexualities, unless its already been established due to a licensed characters biography, etc.
I don’t like kneejerk decisions being made due to vocal minorities. For example, we had people complaining that Bubba’s “blackface” (Claudette) mask cosmetic was racist and wanted it removed from the game. Not the same situation with people wanting LGBTXYZ characters included, but there’s no reason to force them in since they have no bearing on the game. I’d prefer the devs focus on fixing gameplay issues or coming up more interesting/useful perks than designing a rainbow survivor or killer. You know, stuff that actually matters.
No backstory to characters sexualities? So they should go back and remove those already mentioned? You didn’t voice this opinion when they made Julies and Franks tome story available or gave part of Aces cosmetics descriptions that mention sexuality in a way.
you say there is no reason to „force them in“ but there really is just no reason to leave LGBT out, we already got straight relationships and LGBT is not all about sex, it’s about the person, their identity, relationships, personal developement and growth, struggles and hopes in their life. With BHVR making ever more backstory entries and going deeper, this is something they shouldn’t leave out just to please you, or they would restrict their creativity and options.
Lore was there from the beginning and it will stay. And those creating the lore are probably not the same that work on gameplay mechanics or bugs etc. And for all we know they won’t create dedicated characters only for the sake of it, but incorporate LGBT+themes just naturally like straight themes before.
if it doesn’t matter to you, chances are you wouldn’t even notice it, but there will be people happy about it. And as long as they don’t go into sexual stuff (which really doesn’t belong in DbD) let them mention that a male character had a boyfriend, there is no harm in it.
Given the amount of times I've seen Nea and Meg shipped, I'm surprised this is even commented on, but whatever
Who the ######### cares... why even comment on it.
Tbh, this was my reaction as well. They just made a small tweet. Nothing that should affect the game in any way other than some minor lore entries...
I agree with your last paragraph. If BHVR actually WANTS to make a character with a gay backstory/biography? Ok, fine.
I just dislike people wanting representation like if its owed to them. Like I want more Latino characters in DBD but I’m not offended if more aren’t added or pushing for it to happen. And just to clarify: requesting it is fine... but feeling that it needs to be included is not (that’s entitlement). All of a sudden there’s like 3+ threads about this going on... so that’s my basis.
We’ll just see what BHVR wants to include in the future. Maybe they’ll send out another survey and people will get a chance to express their wishes for pride characters there.
The tweet doesn’t indicate they will include it for representations sake. They actually stated before they don’t want to do it because of it. They will include LGBT now because they already added hetero relations and they don’t want to explicitly exclude LGBT themes.
we will have to see how BHVR will include this in the future, as of now nothing more than some lore should be expected.
“They will include LGBT now because they already added hetero relations...”
Sounds “forced”, but its whatever. They don’t have to do it, but based on what you’re describing it seems like they think they’d “look bad“ by not including any, which of course is completely ludicrous. The game doesn’t “need” any specific demographic. Just because a heterosexual relationship is referenced, it doesn’t mean a homosexual one needs to.
Afraid to give an insight that he himself already gave.
There's because "representation's sake" does not exist. And if the LGBT community wants a character from their community that then that's not a problem, I was under the impression that non straight or non white customers were paying customers like anyone else. Rey and all the other reactionaries are acting like toddlers who don't want to share their toys.
If I want to concede and say it's empty diversity like they aren't doing anything interesting with the character, the character serves no other purpose than to further the goals of the majority with no real plot of their own, or anything like that then sure, but the loud reactionary you're speaking with isn't concerned about any of those things. He just don't want any gay ######### in it. Ironically enough, these kind of people are angry because they are being "forced" to deal with a demographic while forcing companies to appeal to only them.
If I come off as aggressive, I apologize but it's far too much craziness in the world for these people to either lie about what they mean or continue in their ignorance.
It doesn’t sound „forced“ at all though. They made a mistake with adding hetero relationships, no one really cried out about it as far as I have seen it. And there were -if any at all- very few forum posts dedicated to it.
they can’t turn back and just take those lore entries away. So they revised their prior statement and now there is no reason to not add LGBT. They are not forced to include it now. They are just not forced anymore to exclude it, which they were before. And this was forced on them by themselves.
thank you for this! For me that doesn’t come as as aggressive. Many other posts here however do.. 😉
and yeah I love this irony of trying to force them not to include LGBT+ because they are „forced“ to include it. That actually always makes me laugh
BHVR includes what they want, they have done it before and just changed their statement now. That shouldn’t be such a big deal when it’s only affecting lore entries, and even then only new lore entries.
Like I’ve said in the past, it’s a 4v1 asymmetrical horror game where all survivors are basically just skins with no variation in ability aside from the perks they use (which everyone has access to)... lore/character sexuality has ZERO bearing on the actual gameplay therefore it’s of little consequence to me.
I don’t think my posts are ironic at all, as I am not actively creating new threads trying to force my viewpoint on the devs or anyone else like SOME people here actually are.
I do appreciate your maturity in your responses though @Mooks.
Sorry I didn’t mean your posts with the irony (you were using the word forced but with quotes and not the same way as others) nor did I mean to say you were sounding aggressive.
Lore and backstory don’t mean anything to me in this game, too. I didn’t even notice that they were contradicting themselves with those mentions of straight relationships nor have I given them a second thought. And I would never have spoken out that there needs to be LGBT+ in any way in DbD. It’s just with the tweet I can see why people asked for it and why BHVR decided to re-evaluate their stance, and this is totally fair.
plus personally I really think with the lore growing bigger and deeper they would naturally have come to this step some day on their own, since LGBT+ is not only about sexuality but about individuality, personal growth, struggles and hopes etc.
I just struggle to feel immersed in the survivor characters since A) they have no voice lines; B) have no variation in gameplay; and C) biographies don’t contribute to my enjoyment of the game.
As for killers... well you’re just killing survivors of all walks of life, and it’s primarily a first person role (aside from some Mori animations).
With that said, BHVR can include whatever they want - it’s their game. If they do end up including that, the game will still be the same to me even though I will never purchase any cosmetics relating to it (like a pride shirt, etc.)... just like I don’t buy other standard cosmetics I don’t like. If it’s a gay survivor or killer with a gay backstory but they actually have good perks/power then that won’t stop me from buying it either.