The representation debate
I see a few of people saying, "Adding this was unnecessary and not needed." If you think that, just don't worry about this. The devs want to go more in depth with the backstories of characters, so sexuality might've come into play at some point. It's not a big thing. If you didn't go crazy over Wraith and Nurse having a fling and Claudette being on the spectrum, don't go crazy over this.
Edit: Also it's the devs choice not yours
~♡♡♡♡~
Comments
The devs want to do what they were doing before this BS even started. This is no different than any other instance of a political party or special interest group censoring or altering art and media via threats for their own purposes. It's a tale as old as time and it's sad to me how many people are so drunk on their own sense of right and wrong that they put a videogame's developers and community through a coordinated social engineering campaign. In the long run they will do nothing but harm their own platform and everyone else's.
I just think that they're pandering and slapping the lgbt label on random characters. If they're going to add a gay or trans character, let it be important to the story OR don't make it the whole story. It's pretty simple on how to add a good representative character without pandering and the dev's are pandering (at least that's what I see it as) and they're adding lgbt characters in the lamest and most pandering way possible in my opinion. The only way it could be any more pandering is if they add a character whose only lore revolves around gender/ sexuality.
You don’t know how they will incorporate LGBT+ stuff.
we already know there is one in the current roster but they just never mentioned it before. That’s pretty much what you are asking for and that’s how they will probably handle it.
the only „pandering“ here is that they gave the official statement during pride month. They also said why they gave the statement: feedback and questions from the community. If they didn’t make a statement it would have been wrong also, so it was lost situation for them really.. and they handled it probably the best way possible.
Dude, stop spamming that in chats.
This is spam, and it's getting annoying. You're not adding to the conversation or the debate, you're only posting a spam picture.
And an onslaught of thinly veiled homophobic threads is spamming the forums. Ce la vie.
Homophobic?
You think wanting to keep characters the same, untouched, because it clearly doesn't belong in this game is homophobic?
People have related to these characters for years and imagine changing them 4 years later.
Do you not understand? Or is your White Knighting, PC attitude getting in the way of also understanding that "The Other Side" also exists and have valid complaints.
I Love "inclusion" and diversity, because then you can surround yourself with nothing but people who only agree with you while pushing away those that don't.
Very "inclusive" if you ask me.
Congrats on thread 6235 on this in 2 days. We all see you now. Youll get your virtue signal points in the mail in 3 business days
Bestest of friends 😊🤗
And look at that, they did nothing but add a DLC with their "Wedding" garments to show their marriage.
Stop making this a Straight vs. Gay topic, or a fight, or a debate, because it isn't. They made 1 DLC, I can't wait what Price Tags they'll add to this character's clothes, and charms and DLC only based off their sexuality.
It's just Price Tags, that's it. Stop it with this Gay vs Straight thing I've seen you post around the forums.
"No one cared when a straight character was revealed."
Bezzie bezzie best friends. =]
"Untouched", "clearly doesn't belong", "white knight", "pc", ""The Other Side""(Sadly, not in reference to that great Red Hot Chili Peppers song) and calling out "Inclusivity" for not tolerating intolerance... Hey, buddy, can you also babble something about "SJW", "values", "first amendment being threatened" and a vague allusion to race? I'm just a few away from filling the whole card for "unironic snowflake fails at dog whistling" bingo. K Thx
I'm talking about the Nurse's husband mentioned explicitly in her lore, as well as the tomes relating to Frank and Julie's relationship.
Nobody's making this a "Straight vs. Gay" topic except you. I'm saying that these people weren't opposed to heterosexuals being confirmed as such, so it seems like homophobia when they oppose non-heterosexuals being confirmed as such.
Do you get points in the mail for calling out "virtue signaling" or something? Why do you have such a fascination with it? Does it REALLY affect you? Or are you just complaining to complain?
If a character is revealed to be gay and you boot up the game, what exactly is going to change for you? Don't want to play a gay character? Don't play them. Don't care about playing them but don't want to read lore focused on LGBT struggles? Don't read it.
Let's say adding LGBT is solely to get more sales. In this scenario nobody on Bhvr is LGBT or even if they are, they don't really CARE about LGBT people, they just want their money. You were right! Congratulations. You get the satisfaction of not being a dirty SJW because you're so much better than all that. But wait.. in this scenario the store still exists.. cosmetics still exist.. charms still exist.. THE RIFT STILL EXISTS! 😱😱😱 When will Bhvr stop thinking about $$$$$ all the dang time?
Except it's been announced.
In June.
Why not announce it later. Announcing it in a month when you know the fad is at its peak is disingenuous.
Cute derail.
But someone who calls pride a "fad" doesn't deserve a legitimate response.
Btw, here's a gift from me to you:
🌈🌈🌈🌈👩❤️👩💑👪👩👩👦🌈🌈🌈🌈
Oh no, here I go pandering again 😉
I'm gay.
I'm immune.
Nice try though.
You say it doesn't belong in the game but it always has been part of the game that was the point of their statement they said they wouldn't reveal sexuality because they wanted people to have their own thoughts about the character however when they were revealing story elements they put characters under certain sexualities which invalidated their statement.
Frank and Julie are in a straight relationship I didn't see you massively complaining about how that didn't belong in the game.
Nurse was in a straight relationship and is a widow after her husband died once again didn't see you massive we complain in fact she's paired together with Wraith another straight relationship again and no complaints from you about how it doesn't belong
Ace's has some cosmetics that describes him as a ladies man once again no massive complaints
David was revealed to have an ex-girlfriend again where was the complaints that was unnecessary
Oni has as a wife and Child putting him in a straight relationship where was the complaint this was unnecessary when it was revealed. It's also not necessary as Oni could have sibling could simply be where the ancestry of spirit came from this would keep the characters themselves unlabelled and still fit in with the story.
Can you see why people have a problem when it's only win LGBT relationships or characters are brought up that apparently it doesn't fit into the game or unnecessary inclusion but whenever it's something straight no one gives a damn.
Okay, sweetie.
Man, you people are blind to the issue.
Because that's what DEFINES THEM, from the beginning. It's who they are, it's what they've been, it's what people have been attached to since release.
And NOW, 4 years later, they're going to announce someone's sexuality. For what purpose? They made an entire disingenuous post on Twitter telling the world of their great deed to our community when they could have just done it. Just DO IT.
Imagine me making a YouTube video of my 10 Grand donation to LA Homeless shelters, or a Tweet post about it.
There's nothing genuine about it.
If they had just done it, there would have been an outrage because they previously stated they would not do it.
they made the statement because they got many questions regarding this and feedback from the community. If they didn’t answer there would have been an outrage because they would be ignorant.
they just made a small statement, saying how they wanted to do it, that they see they did contradict themselves in some ways and won’t restrict themselves anymore.
They didn’t make a video about it, they could have made the next Q&A only about this topic but all they did was one tweet.
Blind to the issue at hand
David having an ex-girlfriend was released with his archives it was literally added later again where was your complaint.
The archives is an area where they can actually establish a lot more backstory to characters this might pop up just like with David so why is it a problem when it's Lgbt.
Even if it was just a pandering move to get a brownie points why does it matter to you so much that you have to try to lobby against it. Meg being revealed to be bisexual effects nothing about anything that she used to represent the same way it didn't change anything with David.
If a creator of a story once to describe new avenues of that story they should be allowed to you don't have to bundle everything the second a character is revealed. That's not how character development or character exploration works.
As for your other point if you make the video or a tweet about it who the hell cares you donated a lot of money to help people if you want a stroke your own ego about it that's your own problem but she's still did a good thing.
In fact that you use your example that's like you making a video and someone immediately saying no take the money away from homeless because it was not done genuinely.
Jeez I will state this again and I'm getting tired of repeating it adding LGBT representation is such a non-issue that you actively have to try to find something wrong with it and most people who try to make arguments about it end up failing miserably.
There is literally two complaints that I could see being possibly valid for a reason not to add this.
1) Token character: literally the LGBT person they add or decide to reveal will just become a token and nothing else. This my dear is a argument you give after the fact not before it.
You have no idea how they will write the character whether it's revealing about an existing character on the archives or adding it to a new character. So calling that it's going to be a token is a little bit far-fetched when you haven't even seen them write it. Now if they do write it as a token character then bring up the point however stating that it could possibly be a token so it shouldn't be added is stupid.
2) Character retcon: this is my favourite one because it proves most people who use the word have no idea what Retcon means.
Besides the characters I've listed in my previous comment no one has had any established romantic or sexual relationship considering nothing about them is established on that front revealing it it is not a retcon.
If Feng Min has never been described as dating anybody so revealing her as a lesbian changes nothing.
However to stir the pot little even if they decided to use some of the characters I listed above as being in straight relationships that still wouldn't be a retcon because bisexuality exists.
It will only be a retcon if the character in question has been defined as having no interest in a romantic or sexual LGBT relationship. Then it was revealed that they had one all along
Just saying that I don't want them to add to already existing characters because that's stupid and pandering. If they add new gay/ trans or bi characters I don't really care. Sexuality doesn't matter in a game like dbd and that's the bottom line. It may be nice for some people to know, but it has no effect on gameplay.
I was with you until that last post cause it made no sense...
Why would someone call you homophobic?
But it is not stupid nor is it pandering. No char was ever confirmed not to be LGBT+. It’s something the creators probably thought about from the very beginning of the character but never felt the need to mention yet. And they will only mention it if it feels fitting to the story they want to tell.
if it doesn’t matter then it should not affect you. But it does matter to you.
How is it stupid if they decided to add it to an existing character.
As for pandering for the love of God everything panders to everybody when anything tries to appeal to it's target demographic it's pandering.
Besides the the most likely answer of I wouldn't like it what will be ruined or lost if they decide to make Min lesbian, Joey gay or Kate bi.
Lastly if sexuality doesn't matter and is the bottom line why do you care if they added to an existing character why do you care if they add it in general
Nurse, Frank and julie were all implied to be straight. It matters because they're pandering, my point. They're slapping the label on characters just because they can. They're trying to shove it in our faces which is unnecessary.
I say that it's pandering because they're slapping the label on them just to please us. If they add a new character that happens to be lgbt then that's cool. But they don't have to shove any characters sexuality down our throats. And I'm simply giving my opinion.
Go read Frank and Julie's expanded lore and tell me how that's not shoving it in our faces. Then tell me how a vague mention to a character's sexual orientation is worse.
They were never implied to be straight. They were confirmed to have had relationships with the other gender. They can still be bisexual or asexual as far as we know. Even gay (at least in the case of Nurse, I am pretty sure the lore of Frank and Julie states they were really into each other).
as of now, they didn’t slap any label on any character. They just stated they won’t restrict themselves anymore from mentioning LGBT+ (and hetero) relationships or themes.
where were you when they mention hetero relations even though their statement was they wouldn’t talk about any sexual orientation for any character? THAT was kinda shoving it in our face. But no one complained. Now you are complaining about something they haven’t even done (yet).
Where was your complaints when they revealed that David had a girlfriend where was your complaints that they were shoving David sexuality down our throat.
Frank and Julie are a couple who are dating it is literally repeatedly referenced in their cosmetics why is that not completely shoving their sexuality down our throats.
I'm sorry but if you think revealing that a character with no established sexuality has a specific sexuality is shutting it down people's throats and then I'm pretty sure you have never encountered any LGBT person in your life because usually they don't randomly loudly proclaim their LGBT the second you meet them.
Why is it when the sexuality might be an LGBT one is it shoving it down our throat but when it's straight no one cares
Where'd you get that from? I think a brief mention of a character's sexuality is all they need to do. Like how they did with Sally, they simply said that she had a husband. BOOM... that's how you conform sexuality without shoving it in our faces. I still don't think it matters too much but since they're doing it anyways I might as well give my opinion how to add a good lgbt character... and how to mention a character's sexuality without shoving it in our faces.
Like I said, please go read Frank and Julie's extended lore. I'll give you a hand:
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Tome_III_-_Escalation#Julie_Kostenko:_Soldiers_of_MayhemWhen you're done, read this comment of mine:
What they did for Sally was perfect imo. They mentioned her sexuality or possible sexuality whatever just by saying that she had a husband. And when it comes to Frank and julie, again, all they did was say that they were into each other. All im saying is that I don't want the dev's going around saying THIS CHARACTERS BLANK. I just want them to add it to lore in a non pandering way.
Exactly my point. LGBT people don't go around saying immediately that they're lgbt and that's what the dev's are doing. They're just labeling them with no actual story behind it.
They did not just say that Frank and Julie were into each other. Read the lore, they shove their straightness down our throats and it's one of the main driving points for the Legion to even exist.
But for all we know they will just do that. That’s pretty much what the twitter statement says. They didn’t announce a new char that’s only trait is being LGBT.
That's an example of too much. They didn't need to do all of that for them. And can we please stop assuming that I have a problem with gay people it's getting really old.
Yup and that's too much you're right.
Nobody is assuming anything. Did you read my comment? Try putting yourself in my shoes for a minute.
The way they worded it sounded like they were just going to randomly out everyone. If they find a way to make it important to story in some way then it's fine. Again I just don't want pandering... that's all.
Yes, they did shove it in our faces, you were right about that and I understand where you're coming from. And that last comment I made wasn't directed at you specifically it's directed for almost everyone replying to me. Your wording is implying that I have a problem with lgbt but not straight people
If they do it like that I will be on your side of the argument. But looking at the lore they have written before and the heterosexual relationships I think assuming they will handle LGBT stuff the same way is all we can do with certainty now.
Everything is pandering. Adding Silent Hill? That's pandering to the Silent Hill fans. Adding Leatherface? That's pandering to the Leatherface fans. Adding Freddy, Shape, etc.? Same thing.
Businesses have to pander to their demographic/customers, it's literally the basis for success. If they don't pander to the people who buy their products, who are they supposed to pander to? Why is "pandering" a dirty word all of a sudden?
Pandering to LGBT is a little different then to a video game franchise. For me it all boils down to the dev's dont really care... they're just doing it to make themselves look good.
Ugh, that lore is awful. I don't get it, that doesn't bring anything interesting to the characters. If that were a sample from a novel, I wouldn't want to read the rest.
Sorry, I'm probably going off topic, but I just don't like the way they write a lot of the lore and backstories in DbD. That Legion nonsense shows they can't handle romantic relationships with any sort of skill, and now they're saying they're going to include romantic relationships more often? The future looks bleak. I'm not sure tact is part of their repertoire.
LOL that’s a fair.
the writing seems really odd sometimes. But then again, why should only hetero relations get awful lore entires XD.
I still hope they will only include it like with Sally or David. Just a mention. Nothing that awful. Or maybe both. So the LGBT+ or hetero theme doesn’t matter at all and they will just naturally include it like only hetero before. The lore being awful at times is a completely different topic
Not really, no. Both are part of the customer (or potential customer) demographic. From a business standpoint, it's irrelevant - you gotta pander to your demographic, period.
The devs have voiced their support for the LGBT community quite regularly. If your issue is that it's Pride Month, then I can only imagine how you felt about the Blight events during Halloween.
they should just make a LGBT DLC that way they can make money and please the crowd.
1 gay male
1 gay female
1 bisexual male
1 bisexual female
1 trans male
1 trans female
Anything less is non inclusive enough. As I mentioned bisexuals make up the larger of the group, majority of people in LGBT claim to be bisexual so you need to include them too.
Make it 19.99 and call it a day. Let people who want it buy it, those who dont want it, can not buy it.
This is exactly what most people of the LGBT+ dont want though. It is pretty forced and feels like total unnecessary pandering.
just integrate LGBT themes naturally just like how hetero relations are already part of the game. Nothing will be lost here. Nothing would be retconned. Some chars may even still be not confirmed to their sexuality at all.