Hag and Wraith are out dated...
As we stand they are the only 2 killers who have weaknesses to a rather annoying item..flashlights, wraith isnt strong enough to allow flashlights to be a ranged stun..and for hag..last night I had the worst match I've had in ages..thsts saying a lot since I'm a nurse main in 2020..I never thought flashlights were that bad as hag..but last night showed me otherwise.
This dwight I faced..used an auto haven map offering and a yellow flashlight ..i could not use my power vs him because hed disarm the trap immediately and hag is so slow hed still make it to an abundance of pallets..to make it worse he followed me and made sure i could never set up against his team and they would force disarms on my traps as well..i was in practice..utterly powerless to stop them..all because of 1 yellow item...this is an old out dated design..and should be corrected...why does it seem like every killer I love to play is plagued by these..decisions..so if killer power could NOT be shut down by an item that would be a nice start
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Your not supposed to..its a 4v1..the 0ne should always easily overpower any of the 4 alone..this is opposing to that..besides..hags dont just place random traps ususlly..plus shes already got a range limit when responding to a trap
Ishes not considered top by many people and after yesterday I still think shes good but this game is about to enter the competitive side thanks to sbmm..killers need to be equipped for that..I feel hag is the easiest as her base is already solid..plus..trapper lost his item hard counter..I feel hag should have the same
i kinda agree and disagree at the same time.
one one hand, yeah you are right, its a very old mechanic that is kind of outdated. its a direct counter to their power, if survivors manage to pull it off and kind of unnecessary.
But then on the other hand, i kinda like it aswell. for Hag it is the only chance to disarm her traps - dont forget that Trappers traps can always be disarmed without the need of an item, and tbh i think Hag should offer a way to get rid of the traps other than sneaking around them (which doesnt get rid of them, it just wont trigger them and wastes a lot of time). For Wraith it is a mechanic i kind of enjoy - it makes sense for him as he is supposed to be that creature lurking in the shadows - obviously shining light on it would expose it and scare it off.
Its a downside i really like for some reason - plus it burns through their flashlight when you know how to avoid it (as Wraith) or when you just reset your traps in no time (as Hag).
Also a little fun fact:
Hag and Wraith are not the only killers that have a natural weakness to Flashlights - there is one more: The Nurse.
You can actually lightburn the Nurse when you shine a flashlight at her hand while she is charging up a blink, denying said blink and forcing her into fatigue immediately.
But there is a good reason this is a very little known fact - she charges up the blink much faster than the survivors can lightburn her and it requires a lot of precision on the survivors part. I think in all the time ive been playing DbD i have only ever been lightburned once as Nurse - and never lightburned one myself.
Wraith would make sense if he were stronger as a killer and it can be avoided by positioning..plus hes 115 speed...and hag is 110..completely power reliant and the devs have agreed direct power counters are not healthy for the game..plus trappers traps result in a free down if you hit one usually..hag still has to teleport and chase you down herself..trapper can use his traps for zoning and still do ok..hag doesnt have that luxury ..
Crouch, pickup, burn trap, tbag.
therefore Hag has unlimited amounts of traps at her disposal and can just easily set them around loops during chases to completely shut down said loop. Trapper cant do that / it takes him a lot longer and is restricted in how many times he can do it - on top of that he needs to be very precise with his traps while hags traps have such a huge trigger radius that she can just put them anywhere near the loop and they will still trigger.
the flashlight burn on Hags traps is something that wont really be working during chases, so they can only destroy your preset setup. That means they still reveal their location to you and you can, as said before, reset it within just a few seconds.
also there is no guarantee that you'd have even been able to teleport there in the first place, especially during chases or from far distances. in the worst case you're gonna have to just walk over there and reset them - mostly it wont matter though, as i doubt anyone would be willing to give up a chase just to reset a setup someone destroyed.
regarding the Wraith, like i said above its kinda unnecessary of a downside to have, but the concept is really cool and fits the character perfectly. i have a love - hate relationship with that one xD i love the concept, but i hate when it happens to me.
You'd have to chase the Dwight, place traps as your chasing him around loops in areas that's hard to flashlight immediately.
If she had a Map Wide basekit she would need 2 or 3 traps at Max with a Cooldown Red Bar so she can't freely port from side to side...
Kind of like Demo. And Freddy!
True
You misunderstand me..I was at a loop..I trapped the loop to set up a mind game..he burned it instantly and I couldnt stop him..and I couldnt go after his team either because he was tailing me..I was effectively being hard countered by a yellow item dude..nonsense ..sldo do not forget there are strats people use to fight hag and she cant be everywhere even with her traps..plus she uses valuable time setting them constantly..its way overkill
You really didnt think I tried that..? That was the entire point of this post
Shed be so terrible lol
I know, it was all sarcasm. =]
I figured XD
im sorry dude but if you allow a survivor to destroy your traps mid chase that sounds like a you-issue to me.
there is no way you should ever allow someone to lightburn your traps while you are chasing them - that takes several seconds of them having to walk and look at the trap, shining their flashlight at it - you should have PLENTY of time to smack em during that.
It seems the op probably placed his traps in the wrong places such as besides the pallet where it's more open and easier for the survivor to quickly disable them. If he placed them along the long side of the wall or around corners of tiles, the survivor probably wouldn't have the time to disable them.
This is probably a case of a lack of experience in how to deal with this situation.
Lol try 1 second tops..and can be done across the loop btw..and of I push they throw the pallet..rinse and repeat..I've been around a while..I know my stuff
No I did not..I placed them along the loop to create a nind game away from the pallet..no amount of experiance will prep you for having no power as a 110 vs a swf squad..so I'd suggest against making such grand assumptions..I've played hag for 2 years
So what you are telling me is that you placed a trap along the long side of the loop where the survivor can't flash it from his current position. Chased the survivor around and he had enough time to spend a second to disarm the trap and make it to the pallet aswell?
I agree that flashlights shouldn't have any impact as drastic as a long stun or a completely safe removal of an already non-lethal trap.
Hag already has a lot of counterplay without the need for flashlights to destroy her traps. You need to know when to disarm a trap or set of traps, and when it is dangerous to do so. Flashlights get rid of that requirement and just turn it into "break this trap if u can"
Theres no position he cant reach it...its an AUTOHAVEN loop...you been there..? The walls are 2 feet high which means next to no mind games at most loops..he can flash over it..the flash hitbox on a hag trap is huge
It's a system that begs to be abused and seeing how bad it gets first hand I can see why people value hag so low now
I’m glad you’re okay with checks and balances, I assume this means you’re okay with Pyramid head countering DS and BT correct?
Trapper can get wrecked by maps
It doesnt matter mid chase..that's the difference, trapper is already in need of a big upgrade anyway so hes not exactly an example of balance ..plus even if his trap doesnt get you..it denies an area and if you dont have a tile to go to he will quickly catch up as a 115 killer, hag without her traps will get rofl stomped into the dirt..plus they removed sabo traps..because they agree hard power counters arnt healthy for this game
I'll have to see how it goes, make no mistake I have very, very, little love for Decisive Strike. Its the perk I hate to go against most not because I'm a tunneler or I chase the dude that was just unhooked but due to the fact it can be used to brute force unhooks.
Personally I always feel iffy when a perk can hard-counter another perk or power, it can be done and be pretty nice. But I have to see how Pyramid head goes over a few weeks when he releases, I imagine a whole bunch of bad killer players are going to move over to him and give him a really nasty reputation like Legion used to have
What?
I'm saying I'm hoping people realize this issue
Every trap killer can have their traps removed... The only way for Hag to have her’s removed is via flashlight. That is something that not every survivor will have. Or even want to use.
The difference is hers are the only ones that can be disarmed during chase from a distance in about 1 second..big difference
I do not believe that. She isn't the best killer against a team without flashlights.
I'd really like to see lightburn gone. Such an old and outdated mechanic that has no place in the game now. As for Hag...She needs a full-on rework. The worst designed killer in the game imo, such a boring playstyle and ability that offers no interaction or skill in how she plays.
I'd vy that OoO on a competent survivor is Hag's real problem. Given if you can see the radius with the particles, a survivor can run an excess of 32m if the hag teleports the frame she pops the trap before getting hit.. This pretty much makes it a guarantee that a survivor can make it to a safe area. I tested this myself and made a video of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPid20Wo2LwShe doesnt need a rework..her skill cap is quite high
You could also bait out the usage by not completing the trap? And flashlights burn out relatively quickly, so it is really a non-issue...
That's terrible ...
People wont stand behind you while you fake a trap...nobody would fall for that and youd just waste charges..and a flashlight can pop plenty of traps before running out..it takes no real time at all and it's a fossil of a system that doesnt belong
No, you would be surprised by how many people would. A lot of the toxic flashlight users you mention often try to do that so they can keep looping. Makes my job easier.
Look, she has no other counters, besides immersion, and how many killers honestly want that?
Immersion..? She has crouching to prevent trap usage yes but you can also run through her traps while hooking , take the aggro the same way, and unless the hag is good can be kited for ages..no killer should have an all encompassing instant counter like this..its rediculous
Every time this thread gets pushed up, I keep seeing it as "Hag and Wraith are out on a date."
XDDD quick someone get Sally, wraith be pimping
Fair enough, but she definitely outperforms Billy and Oni. I think because of how much more difficult she is to counter, she'd be considered the best.
You can make an argument about her needing a rework or not, if you genuinely like her go ahead but me and many others personally don't. But she definitely does not have a high skill cap. You spam traps and hit ctrl whenever a survivor activates one and hit them. What an interesting and difficult killer.
That’s how decent Hags play, watch a really good Hag. They are precise with their web of traps, smart about when to chase and when not to, willing to give up early gens to set up late pressure.
I can play Hag and 4K against ransoms and solos but I am far from a good Hag, Those ones can wipe the floor with coordinated SWF even with flashlights
I used to be at that lvl, can confirm. Now though... I'm a shadow of my former self, a poser... 🤣🤣🤣
I challange you to try that..see how far you get
Fair opinion, but I don't think her being strong is a good enough reason for her to be susceptible to flashlights.
People who say that are the same people who say, "Spirit strategy is get a good headset and you get free 4ks," or "Freddy just spams traps and gets a free 4k," that works against potato teams and it gives new or bad killers a chance to compete without too much practice but it isn't going to get you far against good players and SWF teams.
Jumpscare Wraith is even stronger than Myers, so...
Exactly