Survivors should be able to pick themselves up perkless
I have had way too many games were survivors were slugged and left to be bled out. Sure, not all killers are like that, but the fact that there are killers who try to force survivors to either disconnect, which they cant do without recieving the penalty(so being forced to stay 2 minutes in an unplayable game, which should be bannable for keeping the game hostage, even though its "just 2 minutes" regardless of the fact it can take up to 20 minutes to find a game, meaning you have to spend up to 42 minutes before you can actually play a playable game).
Normally, any action that has little risk shouldnt have a massive reward. Its why camping, even though annoying, doesnt really give that much reward. Doing a pallet drop is a bit riskier, because it can still allow the killer to hit you or you happen to remove a really good late game pallet really early, which will definitely bite you in your ass later on, however, if you happen to pull off the stun, you buy some time that will allow you to probably not need that pallet in the first place and often it would be more efficient for killers to ignore the dropped pallet etc.
Slugging, however, fails to fit any of these catagories. The only risk is the possibility for someone having a certain perk and them crawling away, but any human with ears should be able to easily locate them again as Iron Will doesnt have an effect on the dying state(and Stridor, even though it should be like Iron Will, DOES apply to the dying state), but its another perk that would otherwise be required to make slugging risky.
But ofcourse, it shouldnt be too easy for survivors to do so, my reasoning here would be, that if the downed survivor leaves the killer terror radius, should be able to pick oneself up after a tough skill check(not Overcharge tough, more like Brand New Part tough, especially if Lullaby is applied), and if they happen to miss that skill check, the killer gets a notification and their recovery is reset to 50%. That way, slugging is a bit more risky for the massive reward it otherwise grants. Either that, or at least let 2 downed survivors who are next to each other be able to pick each other up(which would be a lot stronger than being able to pick yourself up with a skill check).
Sure, its a complicated solution which could just as easily be countered with a perk, but as many, MANY killers will tell you, perks or addons shouldnt be required to counter another perk(check the OoO discussion, you'll find a lot of killers basically claiming that). So survivors shouldnt require unbreakable to counter slugging(I guess you could put in no mither there too, but no killer would leave someone with no mither on the floor). And just to repeat, this is only meant to add some risk to slugging. Unbreakable would still be a lot more reliable as you wont require a skill check, hell, I'd say No Mither would still be more reliable. It also shouldnt counter a Haunted Grounds or NOED slugfest as its not meant to basically be a free pick-me-up. Perhaps the way I described it could require a bit more of a downside, perhaps even recieving the broken status for a minute after picking yourself up, all I want is just a slight risk for killers to leave a survivor behind while still heavily patrolling that area to slug the rest.
SOME EDITS AND SUMMARY: After some insights from some people and other people being simply unable to see im trying to make it as uninteresting to do. I'll try to update this whenever someone gives a better idea to making it even more uninteresting to use under normal gameplay. Just as unhooking yourself would be a last resort if no one else is capable of unhooking you.
- If downed and OUTSIDE the killer terror radius after some time, the survivor gets the option to get an incredibly hard skill check(BNP skill check, not overcharge, perhaps even tinier).
- If FAILED, regresses the recovery to 0-25%, notifies the killer of your location in the case you moved and the fact that in about 30-40 seconds, you'll probably try again, giving the killer the option to keep on pursueing while giving the downed person another chance, or in the case that the killer found the hatch anyway, go back, hook the survivor and go back to the hatch to close it.
- If SUCCEEDED, recieve the broken status for the remainder of the match.
- If this were to be implicated, it should also give a DC the same amount of time to process as a normal hook sacrifice would, giving the killer time to walk back to the hatch, rather than the survivor DC'ing and giving his friend a free hatch.
This is all to make it as risky or even riskier than unhooking yourself, without having too much of a negative impact on the killer side. Meaning that realistically, it would only be used if there is no other way of you getting up. Personally, I myself rather see the entire game changed with more fresh mechanics so that matches like this dont even exist, but as long as these type of matches exist, mechanics like this would be neccesary to reduce toxicity overall. I'd be open to try and suggest something for OoO genrushers, as I think I kinda found a solution for that too(requiring the obsession to be healthy, perhaps even if killers look at the OoO user in that the OoO user cant see the killer for 15-30 seconds), but for now, im focussing on this specific source of toxicity and boring gameplay. Saying its a free Unbreakable is not seeing what im trying to do here.
Comments
It should be an ability exclusively for the last survivor. If you are the last surv, AND your comrades are dead, not escaped, you can pick yourself up like No Mither
Yeah, im trying to find a very balanced way of actually fixing that specific issue without making it something people can use willy nilly. It's not perfect as it is now, but its slowly getting there. Now here's to hoping that something like that actually gets implemented, or that BHaviour actually start taking reports of unfun killers/survivors seriously. Things would be so much better if extreme genrushers would only be facing the extreme slug campers.
That would be way to easily abused though. You could have a friend DC while on hook, just in case you're close to the hatch but too far to reach it, giving someone a free hatch which they otherwise would not have reached. Which is much less of a rare situation than being slugged and left alone for prolonged times.
I dont understand why people still think its even comparable to no mither or unbreakable. What I am describing is far from that. If there are other survivors who can and should heal you, its in your best interest not to do it yourself. Its something you should only be really wanting to do as a last resort. Unbreakable and No Mither can be done pretty willy nilly.
I understand. I just fail to see why it's a problem when people have that same option on the hook anyway. I agree it's not entirely different from a disconnect, but it's not like it isn't already a thing in a different way. Plus just out of personal preference, I'd rather have to face that as killer than have to face being slugged until bleedout again as survivor. People already "waste the killer's time" with regular disconnects so they'll do it regardless. But again, that's just my personal preference. I acknowledge not everybody may think like I do.
Yes giving survivors free no mither without any drawbacks isn´t a buff sure. You know that balancing the game around survivors who can´t hit skillchecks is exactly what we don´t want ? Good survivors will never miss small skillchecks otherwise skillcheck Doc would be a meta build and not complete meme build. I have no idea how you can call this anything else but a buff since it´s massive anti preassure nerf to killers. Either you´re new and have no idea how preassure works or just incredibly biased.
LOLOLOLOL
What is this thread?
Entitled survivor alert, lol
Moris and BNPs have nothing to do with slugging and EGC.
Again, if you are going to keep crying about 120 seconds... go play a different game. No one ever wants to hear an entitled survivor or killer on here.
No. Just no.
no survivors should be able to end their lives while slugged.
First they have to recover the first bar fully, then a new bar starts, fill that one as well and you get the option to end your life.
This is to give a bit more control to survivors while not taking away slugging from killers because Survivors have to still fill up 2 bars (the second bar is not affected by any perks) buying the killer time that slugging is for.
But at the same time it also removes a bit of the toxic abuse slugging can create.
I would even give survivors points for doing so, call it "on your own terms".
There should be a ~15 (number debatable due to nomither or unbreakable) sec timer that simply kills/sacrifices/entity-kills all survivors if all remaining survivors are downed or hooked.
A great skillcheck is pretty much free. Hence why people also say DS is a free escape.
Hostage For a few minutes? Oh honey... people would hold the game hostage for up to AN HOUR. So yes, the EGC was needed.
Now you're just really stretching and grasping at straws.
Exactly. The only time I let people bleed out is when I go back to get them, and theyve crawled ######### knows where. So I'll just sit in the center of the map and wait it out with them.
Again, if it happens multiple times a week, let alone twice a day, its very much an issue that needs to be taken care of. Sure, its not at the degree of the old times(Because, again, the people who had the time and energy to keep a game hostage for a whole hour was rare AF).
What you people are saying is basically the following: "people being shot nowadays isnt an issue we should look into anymore, because it's much rarer these days and the medical field has grown enough that the vast majority of cases end up fully healing, those people who complain about being shot are really entitled nowadays to wanting to reduce gun violence even further".
2 minutes of not being able to play, adding the matchmaking done for that match too, which is definitely at least 5 minutes on average, which makes it 7 minutes being completely wasted not playing the game. Have that happen to you at least twice a week, and you have 14 minutes adding up weekly where you're wasting time in matchmaking because you're gonna join a game with a killer who has a specific slug build on people who figure it out a bit too late because there is no way of telling that someone has a slug build untill 2 people are already floored. That's almost 1 hour per month. Consistently. Those matches where people held the game hostage for up to an hour? Happened at best 3-4 times a year.
I am acknowledging an issue and trying to find a way to fix it without affecting normal gameplay.
DS isnt a great skillcheck tho, its nearly twice its size. That's why its a practical free escape.
No, EGC was added because the survivors could, if they saw fit, hang around for as long as they wanted, just hiding in corners to waste the killer's time.
Slugging has an absolute maximum time.
Old gates open did not.
I don't think you should get points for what basically amounts pseudo disconnecting.
If you want to ######### off slugged that's fine but you gain no reward for it.
Your denying an element of strategy on the Killers part. (Do some Killers abuse it yeah doesn't mean you should gimp it)
you dont deny anything, we can deside how much time its going to take for that second bar to fill up to keep it balanced, there is a point where strategy goes to abuse, that is how long it should take for that second bar to charge
For example Slugging for a 4k isn't abuse
Slugging because you want the Entity to do it or you just want the survivor to bleed out (with some exception like dead zones) is abuse.
A survivor could technically kts in both situations the former is removing strategy on the killer part the latter isn't.
As annoying as it is neither of which should be should be rewarded.
No. I've had games as a killer where survivors ACTUALLY took my game hostage by hiding for 10-30 minutes in large map. Back then swamp was much larger map. According to survivors this was perfectly fine. Killer slugging may be annoing but you know you WILL die in few minutes.
I swear Killers just shouldnt be allowed to apply any pressure towards survivors because you have entitled babies like this complaining about one of the very very few methods killers have to counter broken gen speed
You're comparing having to wait 2 minutes to play another game, a video game, to being shot.
I'm done here.
Yeah and DS/overcharge/BNP are easier than greats. I'm genuinely surprised when someone doesnt DS me, and then has it. Like HOW did you miss that?
Just like killers should be able of instantly moring every survivor they down without the use of an actual mori. ;)
90% of the killers need slugging to be somewhat playable in high ranks. After this change it would be spirit and nurse every match, because they can actually end chases fast.
So? Analogies exist to point out why its wrong. The ability of being forced to wait shouldnt even exist. If your argument doesnt hold up in one way that has the same logic to it, it doesnt hold up in the other way either. The logic being that an issue exists, and even though the severity of the issue is considerably smaller than it used to be, doesnt mean that issue shouldnt be fixed.
Nah, if you think im entitled, read up the new post. My whole point is that the inability to play the game without having an option out should not be a position that exists. Just because I see one issue doesnt mean I dont see the other issues.
I agree to that, but that doesnt mean that giving anyone the inability to play isnt an issue. It's still a waste of time. It might not be as severe, but severity is not an implication of issues existing.
Exactly this. I do not want to impact the overal strategies of killers, however, if you happen to slug 3 people and find the 4th one, leaving the slugged people behind should add a tiny risk. Having unbreakable as a perk isnt exactly a risk, as you're pretty much forcing the usage of unbreakable, which would end up in every single survivor running it instead and having essentially a survivor Ruin. It locks in the meta to specific playstyles and simply isnt fun to play for both sides. That's why I want to add in a little side mechanic and give it as much punishment as possible, even if succeeded.
All in all, I want a lot of things to change. Buffing both killers and survivors will add in a lot more playstyle possibilities.
Honestly they should also be able to heal without a perk. I mean really, if you can heal others, why can't you heal yourself? They already extend heal time out the wazoo with all the add ons and status effects.