Killers hear me out
The issue with you not winning isn't ruin or gen speed. It never was. It's you. You've just become so accustomed to the failure of survivors (As in you'd get matches where ruin was clutch only because survivors never learned to adapt to ruin) that you've yet to adapt to anything else and try any other strategies. So many killers have complained that ruin was always gone within the first 30 seconds of the match anyway. Killers have also complained that strong, highly co-ordinated SWF could power through ruin so it didn't even matter. So what difference does it make now that it doesn't exist in the same way?
As a survivor main I saw a lot of different killers today. There were killers that seriously struggled and some killers that kicked ass. The killers that struggled are those that got way too involved in the "MUH RUIN!!!!" hysteria that they honestly played the game like they had no chance. Today marks the first day I was facecamped by a Billy that got flustered when two gens popped at the same time and I could honestly not believe it. It was hilarious. But its all in their head. The killers that kicked ass ditched ruin early and started to adapt to new play styles. I had killers like Trapper/Hag set up a 3 gen scenario while getting a few downs in the process. I had a Legion that decided once he was down 3 gens to start slugging to pull all survivors off of gens to buy himself some time. I also had a Tru3Ta1ent wraith that refused to commit and just kept beating on us to keep us off of gens and focus on stabilizing rather than objectives. Among other things. It was those killers that won.
You can complain all you want about your clutch being taken away. But as of right now the robotic motions of patrol gens, find survivor, down survivor, hook survivor, use BBQ to locate next survivor, wash/rinse/repeat, are over. You need to get creative or you'll lose. Period.
Comments
Sure they can try different strategies, but are they fun? The examples you mentioned are boring as ######### to play that way. The hit and run style with Wraith is a snoozefest, and doing 3 gen setups with hag and Trapper is probably the most boring and mindless playstyle In the game. I don't mind new ruin, I'm just levelling plague and playing Freddy, Billy at the moment until I can get corrupt for all my killers, but it was mostly about how ruin let certain killers play in a nicer and less bot-like way
I think someone here is asking for every Killers to bring Green mori every time they see this name in the lobby..
Ok Boomer
"and anyone who thinks otherwise is foolish."
That partial sentence just lost you the small amount of credibility you had. People who disagree with a subjective statement aren't foolish; they're disagreeing with you. What you stated is not a fact.
Serving only survivors? If that was the case you'd still have double window loops/insta-heals/OP Mettle of Man/Infinites/no bloodlust/original balanced landing, etc...
Ruin made killers worse because it allowed them to rest on the robotic method of winning the game. This is no longer the case. And if you want survivors off of gens completing a different objective (cleansing totems) I recommend you start breaking Devour Hope or NoED. Killers are constantly talking about how they want more objectives for survivors...well, if killers all start bringing DH or NoED survivors HAVE to cleanse the totems or they're punished for gen rushing. Especially in the case of NoED.
And survivors messaging you after the game to complain is not a valid excuse to not bring it if you want to buy yourself more time/secure your victory.
We have one guy that literally wants to declare war on the majority of survivors that had no influence on the game whatsoever. Lol
Uh. So robotically going through the motions of patrol gens/find survivor/down survivor/hook survivor/bbq/wash, rinse, repeat... is fun. OK. I think you're confusing "fun" with "easy".
If a Killer needs Ruin, then that person sucks; no doubt about it. I've been in plenty of matches where the Killer disconnected because the Hex Totem was cleansed within the first minute of the match. It's lame.
Where do I begin....
1) Just because I said survivors have received nerfs doesn't mean I don't acknowledge killer nerfs as well. However a lot of them are justified in my opinion.
2) I've said to another user in this post that I agree that some killers need a rework and that there are definitely some balance changes that need to be seen.
3) The reason for the ruin nerf is because we had a lot of killers depipping on purpose and going into low rank games and survivors were getting absolutely demolished by ruin. Those are the survivors that complained. And rightfully so. Ruin is devestating when you're just learning the ropes.
Yeah, I've definitely had my fair share of those matches. They act like a 4k isn't possible at all without ruin. Lol
Ruin isn't hard to counter at all, I think those survivor crybabies need to get good ;^)
yet here i am getting consistent 4k's without ruin before this patch even came out and i can get 4 minute games when put against a swf who solely focus on doing the gens and who are really good in a chase.
No matter what if the survivors are focused on gens and are good in a chase (lasting at least 45s) you will lose unless they royally screw up.
Good idea. Try and get more and more killer players upset. I hope one day even people like you realise that survivor players need people to play killer as well in order to play the game.
And if many people are unhappy with the change and don't enjoy playing killer anymore, something needs to be done by BHVR, that's for sure. Whether people like it or not, but if survivor queue times continue to be much longer than killer queue times, killer will need to be in line for buffs next.
"allowed robotic method of winning" ...
mhm...
soooo... you're telling me, the pure extra time, that a match lasted longer, caused "robotic methods" whatever that means. And that automatically implies that killers are not able to improve their mindgames, their predictions, their optimization in power usage and whatever is needed to become a better killer? Just because they have enough time, they keep swinging at windows and miss, don't learn to read Dead Hard or spread pressure?
Are you sure you posted an argument here? I really don't get you
To 3) this is really not the reason why Ruin was changed. Don't know where you read this.
The stats even show the complete opposite. Red ranks had a 80% usage and overall ranks had 45% usage. That means, assuming equally distributed ranks, that ranks 5-20 only have 36% of usage. And I guess, as new killers first need to level hag, unlock ruin, then go to other killers and hope to find Ruin in the RNG bloodwebs, that those low rank newbie survivors see waaay less Ruin than every third game. We currently see low rank killers matched up with red rank survivor teams because pipping is too easy. So where on earth do you see depipping killers using Ruin against newbies? If that would be the case, there wouldn't be such a big gap between red rank ruin usage and overall usage
I've changed my Freddy to;
Freddy w/ Pill Bottle, and Unicorn Block
Make Your Choice, Surveillance, Pop Goes The Weasel, Barbecue & Chili
Changed my Legion to;
Legion w/ Stolen Sketch Book, Iridescent Button (or Legion Pin)
Thanatophobia, Nurses Calling, Pop Goes the Weasel, Surveillance
I am working on finding new builds for my Ghostface, and Clown. Though I didn't use Ruin for Freddy in the first place, I did previously use his slow down add ons to substitute ruin. Then when they changed them I ran ruin for my farming build (rip distressing/ruin Freddy). I don't make 100k bp a match anymore, but I win most of my matches. Now if only I would pip for getting 2 or more kills, that would be nice. Then winning would actually feel like winning when the game rewards me for doing so.
I agree and disagree on that. I think a good amount of the people complaining about ruin do it because that's one of the only perks they run. But also survivers can win the game very quickly and ruin made it so if they tried to, it wouldn't be as fast. I mostly play surviver and normally get beaten by killers, ruin or not. But I know that if everyone on my team did nothing but gens and one person looped the killer long enough we'd have 3/5 of the objectives done in about a minute. I think the devs should just made gens take 10 seconds or so longer to complete.
True or false? A team of very good survivors can put a very good killer in a position where nothing he does will result in him winning.
I play killer to win, and as a bonus, have fun. I play to the best of my abilities, and STILL do not win, because I'm given too little time to chase and hook. I come to the forums to discuss the problems plaguing the game, NOT to be belittled and reprimanded by the likes of you.
survivors complain at 4x the rate of killers.
They should. Because they're not in control of idiotic teammates saving them. They have 0 control over how or when they get saved. They shouldn't be punished heavily for idiots who hook bomb. BT is entirely fine.
Also since I severely don’t give a ######### about 4k’ing or having an enjoyable experience or providing an enjoyable experience for survivors at the moment I did a little experiment on rotten fields. I chased a pallet camper. The pallet camp used 0 window vaults. He performed zero loops around a pallet and he dropped them before stun 90% of the time. He went from pallet to pallet instead of running through a pallet. So basically the least efficient use of pallets. I was running brutal strength at tier2. I kicked all pallets and chased. 5 gens were done and the map still had 1/4 of the map with pallets. How exactly would a killer counter skilled survivors who can run you for 3 gens using 1 or 2 pallets. Under the most efficient circumstances you can’t get through survivors defenses. All this BS about git gud is dumb. The maps are terribly unbalanced for skilled players especially on the killer side. Some maps are more AIDS than other maps.
again I was not worried about winning so please comment about not chasing 1 survivor for one game, once to see for myself how broken the maps are.
"I don't see how Ruin makes killers worse. "
When there is a game where Ruin goes in 30 seconds you can definitely tell the boys from the men.
The men will maintain composure, buckle down, and secure kills. They win at loops/mind games. They know when to let a survivor go and when to pressure gens. They play optimally and don't make many mistakes.
The boys will completely fall apart like their whole game just went to #########. They make tons of mistakes. They never make the smart plays. They panic. They get hungry for kills and end up getting hit with DS or a flashlight that was easily avoidable.
The first player actually thinks about what to do and makes good decisions. The second player is a bot, and never really learned good tactics because Ruin buys them tons of time in most games at low ranks. They can basically ######### up all over the place and still get a 4k because survivors at green ranks and lower don't do gens with Ruin up.
And then there is the alpha men who are just men that stopped playing with Ruin in the first place realizing it wasn't a good perk to begin with.
"ruin made it so if they tried to, it wouldn't be as fast."
This is only true up to red ranks. At red ranks you might as well not even have Ruin because survivors can do great skill checks and know to just keep working on gens. My SWFs and I would regularly pop 3 gens through Ruin in the first 2 minutes of the game. I've played games as killer where my Ruin was up the entire time yet they still did 3 gens in my first chase.
Ruin is worthless against good survivors. It only works against the bad survivors that you could beat without Ruin anyway.
To be fair, Rotten Fields is a seriously unbalanced map. According to the stats released some time ago, it has the highest escape rate of all maps for survivors. Even higher than Haddonfield, which is also a poorly designed map.
If you tried this on an actual balanced map like Coal Tower I bet the results would be different.
Not to mention, if this player was playing this way and you were actually trying to catch them you should have easily been able to much sooner. Of course if you spend the entire game basically pallet farming with a survivor the others will have plenty of time to do gens. You should have actively tried to catch the guy, players like this are easy hooks. Make them waste shack pallet, put them in basement right after. You could win a game by doing that.
Yall all some crybaby bitches. Killers and Survivors.
you just mori'd him with this comment lmao
This post is literally "Killers hear me out: you all suck so bad, I hate you. You are trash at this game, why bother to play lol losers". So cool.
Two things. You still don't explain (what was my question regarding the line you quoted) why Ruin makes killers bad. You still will learn and get better, Ruin doesn't have impact on your playstyle in any way. In more detail: more time doesn't affect you negatively. If you 4k green ranks just because of the extra time, you will pip up and get to purple ranks where you don't 4k anymore. And then? Get better, eventually reaching red ranks. If not, that's not due to the ruin, that's the killers laziness. Pretty sure that killers with ruin, that could not get past purple ranks, are now also not able / willing to improve to get past yellow ranks without Ruin.
Second, even if you manage to hit all the greats, ruin does its job. How many skillchecks do you have on a gen on average? 5? That's 15% bonus progress denied by Ruin. That's like a constant fully stacked Thana, isn't it? And I'm pretty sure the one or the other skillcheck is failed by uber pros as well. Even "god tier" streamers like Monto or Fungoose even hit too early from time to time, making the gen explode
1) You get accustomed to having more time than you should because low ranks spend the entire early game looking for totems instead of doing gens. That means you never learn how to properly defend generators, you just let Ruin do the work for you. So yes it does impact your play style (which BTW doesn't exist, playing optimally is not a play style, the only actual play styles that exist are aggressive or defensive, everything else is derivative of those two). You don't learn and get better, you have a perk do a large chunk of the work for you until you get to red ranks where it stops doing the work for you. Therefore that would make you a boosted killer.
2)
The clip is exactly 80 seconds. I miss 1 skill check because I went to scratch my nose. The Yui shows up with 15 seconds left but gens taps and thus the gen doesn't go much faster (if anything her being on the gen merely made up for my 1 missed skill check). Ruin does nothing against good survivors like me, and I'm not even the best survivor on Xbox. In these cases Ruin actually did nothing to slow down the gens. I still finish it in 80 seconds. If I bring a toolbox or PT or Resil I can do it even faster even if I fail a skill check.
1) ok agreed on the gen pressure. But regarding mind games, timing hits on windows and power usage optimization I think we can say Ruin doesn't affect it, right? And at least, chase duration is, beneath gen pressure, one of the key skills a killer must have to be able to perform well. Or do you disagree on that?
And still my argument is valid. You said, it doesn't help in red ranks. That means to perform well at red ranks, you need to learn to get better. If that doesn't happen, it is not Ruins fault. This is what initially was said. I say, Ruin doesn't prevent you from learning. This is just you and yourself.
2) Yep, the clip is exactly 80 seconds. So the Yui helped you to negate the failed skillcheck. But Ruin slowed down that gen. Without Ruin, you had 6 great skillchecks, you would have had 18% bonus progression on the gen. That gen would have finished before Yui even arrived. That is in this case even stronger than a fully stacked Thanatophobia. I think that is quite a bit. Or to make it clear: in red ranks, without ruin a gen needs 62 seconds to complete
1) You don't need to mind game or loop efficiently if you have tons of time to waste. So you never learn to do that stuff properly because you have all the time in the world to catch them.
2) I wouldn't be aiming for great skill checks, I would just do normal skill checks. The fact I still do the gen in 80 seconds means it did nothing to actually slow me down. It would require me to do the gen in MORE THAN 80 seconds for it to be a benefit. Fully stack Thana would have added 15 seconds to the gen time. You're looking at it backwards saying I would have done it in 62 seconds and then comparing it to Thana.
1) I repeat: THEN this is killer lazyness, not Ruin, preventing the killer from learning. That's my point the whole time!
2) That's what you do. I'm still aiming for the greats. Well, we can't discuss here if you dont wanna make use of your skill. Others do, others would be slowed down, removing great skill check bonus progress is a slow down. Why would I refuse the bonus I'm granted for performing well? Laziness? That's maybe why you refuse to accept my first argument then
"Killers hear me out"
Me: "No."
I'm generally impressed by the lower rank killers I went against, not having ruin and the matchmaking just giving them red ranks means it's gonna be rough, but most of them fought hard til the end instead of DCing or facecamping and even got some kills out of it, against 4 survivors with decent perks and them with tier 1 bitter murmur and noed etc.
I wish the ruin change didn't have to come while the matchmaking was this badly screwed up though, the timing isn't good and I wouldn't want to be a new killer atm (on console even very new killers still usually have ruin, bc hag is included)
You’re all whiny babies on both sides. It’s the most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen and it’s all based on a video game. There’s literally no way to balance this game to where everyone is satisfied. People post complaints but rarely offer solutions, which is just pointless.
Why not just use it up as early as possible. That way you won't whine about it when you need the kill the most.
Not everyone wants or has the opportunity to do that "ASAP". And I was not whining, i was expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of things. Because it forces me to alter my playstyle. I'm open to suggestions and alternatives, but thus far all I've gotten is get good, quit complaining, or play something else. Hardly helpful or beneficial.
If you don't realize you only have a very limited time you're not going to see a need to improve. It's not laziness, it's the perk doing a lot of work for you thus you never learn.
Doesn't change the fact that a good survivor against old Ruin could still do a gen in 80 seconds. I'm not going to go out of my way to get great skill checks every time if I don't have to because it's a risk. It's much safer to just to the skill check normally. If I'm under pressure THEN I will go for greats. Ruin forces you to go for greats. But if you can do then it's like the perk doesn't matter. The whole idea of a slow down perk is to make gens take LONGER than normal. 80 seconds is not longer than normal, doesn't matter if you are hitting greats or not.
When I said whine I didnt mean you specifically. I meant people that complain about the perk 24/7 And how would d's change your playstyle?
As a killer, I've been saying this all along. When I used to play survivor, I saw all kinds of styles, but the ones that worked best were the ones that were hard to predict. They would peel off suddenly and be in another part of the map. They would not follow to dead zones, or play with infinite loops. They waited until I was in a vulnerable spot.
When I switched to killer around 20 months ago, I started off as a fearful killer. I ran NOED, Ruin, and anything else that would ensure victory. I had a good conversation with a player who mained killer, but was playing survivor that day. He gave me some great advice. Told me to stop fearing a loss. Told me to develop a style and try to avoid pointless actions. I dropped NOED as a crutch and only use it as part of a build now. I started forcing matches without Ruin. I got my butt kicked a lot, but I learned and got better.
When I play survivor with the wife, I see killers that won't drop a chase for anything. They fear losing a hook. They panic when they see a gen or two pop. They make a series of bad decisions and start depending too much on perks as opposed to their own abilities. Then I see a good killer who kicks the crap out of us with a Clown and one perk.
Play style and decisions matter. Are there things that need to be addressed, like tool boxes? YES! But this forum is filled with those that blame everything else other than themselves for losses.
ok survivor main
I’ve seen this a lot. I’ve seen my fav streamers do it, I’ve seen killers I’ve gone against do it. You think to yourself “you’re chasing too long, too far, the survivor is in a strong area and discordance is going off....get to the gen!”
and they dont. They get caught up in the chase.
Its an easy thing to say while watching but while playing its like you have blinders on sometimes. Sometimes in my head I know the right move in a situation, slugging one and chasing the other but I get greedy and decide to secure the hook even though I know its wrong.
We will not get to a common sense here. Your arguments don't counter my arguments.
Ruin slows down every survivor that goes for great skillchecks in any case. If you don't do it, it is just you (and some others of course). I just go for the great skillchecks for the extra points. Having 1-2k extra points per match is motivation enough, so I need 60-70 seconds for a gen without ruin, and minimum 80 seconds. And that IS a slowdown, when you have at least one survivor in the match that does the same like me.
Same to the ruin. Just because I have more time, I don't say "I'll just walk straight lines to catch you, I have enough time to get the 4k". I try to get better in chases all the time, Ruin doesn't stop me from learning. The only thing ruin does is having more chases in a trial. But it is not the time the match lasts what makes you better, it is the hours that you put into the game. And your willingness to improve. Period.
If you don't agree that there are people beneath you for which my arguments are valid, there's nothing I have to say anymore. Costs too much energy
Refuse to slug although it is a game mechanic? Tunneling is as well. Going for the injured survivor than for the healthy one knowing he is on death hook. Not talking about camping and securing state 2 so you can get that one out of the game as soon as he gets unhooked. That makes you loose pressure of course. But tunneling is the most effective slowdown.
So what does the killers prevent to make use of these techniques? If I may guess: the survivors rulebook for killers. This doesn't count for everyone, but all the default flaming surely makes a bit of it. Beneath raising super toxic killer play as well, like facecamping out of frustration, bringing Moris etc.