Rin's dad = I'll be mad
Just saying before it's called one way or the other. It would be such a terrible redundant addition to the game if they added Rin's dad as KILLER.
Survivor? Yes please. Let us chase that murdering PoS and stab him a few times for what he did to his family. But if he's the Killer... Come on. Rin's lore stated he was passed over in favour of Rin, promising her revenge... so, what? Did the Entity change its mind? Did it just lie to her? How does any of this work and why am I quickly not caring? Don't take a huge dump on your lore right as soon as you start to focus on it through tomes, BHVR!!
Smh, I was honestly so hyped for the next original Killer (or even the Nun) to be revealed, but now I'm dreading it. I'm really hoping they don't add pointless Spirit 2.0 to the game, that would absolutely SUCK.
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I just wish they'd add killers from OTHER nationality's folklore, rather than ride the weebtrain to cashtown.
I'm pretty sure the devs have stated in streams that she was never able to kill her father.
Basically the Entity baited and manipulated her with the promise of the power to take revenge, and has been stringing her along with it to keep her as a killer.
That was my line of thinking as well.
They don't understand what "revenge" means, but nevermind that i guess smh lol
Yea just add more killers. That will definitely improve the game in the first place.
Sure can't wait for all those cosmetics that I can pay upwards to 50 bucks for just to get teabagged on.
If that's true, that's hilariously bad writing. i'm willing to throw everything i know away if the devs are that stupid.
"Hey, we have a character fueled by hatred and vengeance... btw, she never gets her revenge"
makes almost as much sense as a killer fueled by his hatred for killing (wraith) so what am i saying
Wraith in my eyes basically snapped when he found out he had been killing people and was broken enough to be weak to the Entity's will.
Spirit is different because she never did anything wrong, she's doesn't hate herself, the only motivation she has is hatred of her father. If she were allowed to kill her father what point would there be to go on?
I think you assume that the deal was concrete like "I give you power, you kill your father OOPS that made you a killer in my realm for eternity." I see it more as "Kill for me and I will give you the power to kill your father eventually, but she basically gets stuck as a killer forever, still fuelled by that hatred.
Look at the alchemist's lore, he stops being rational, he's willing to kill for what drives him, the Entity keeps twisting his mind. There's no hint of an escape for someone who has already been damaged enough to become a killer.
I'm stupefied that you actually think an Entity that abducts people, tortures them into being slaves, and throws them away like dirty tissues when they're used up would keep its word. It was an empty promise to make Rin kill for it for an eternity. If the Entity has at least two brain cells in whatever body it inhabits, it sure as hell won't let Rin find out that her father is also a killer. Call it, conflict of interests. The Entity wins and Rin will keep killing so she can eventually get the revenge. It's like putting a carrot in front of a horse you're riding. The horse wants the carrot but you want it to go forward, so you tempt it to chase it. THAT is what the Entity is doing. How straight forward do I have to put it?
Yeah for sure, that's a fantastic example, the way you mentioned the alchemist. Nevermind that even in those few lore entries they contradict themselves at least twice, but you are correct that he will do whatever for serum... he needs it. that's his drive.
But he actually gets more of that serum, we see it happen. Rin is fueled by vengeance and doesn't get it... so she isn't being "strung along", she's just not thinking at all, almost like she isn't a character? Vengeance must be coming, otherwise she has no purpose, and it's bad writing.
Really? You're like "we can't possibly understand the entity" and then you immediately follow it up by characterizing its behaviors and applying inductive logic that it is likely to repeat similar behaviour, and also concluding that it is evil by our standards, and that by extension it must also be a liar because lying is evil. Very "bold of you" to make so many assumptions on an inscrutable mystery box (a mystery box is a cheap trick writers use, where they keep something mysterious enough to justify anything coming out of it: the entity is everything, or nothing, in other words, it sucks and isn't compelling)
also, the carrot analogy is broken: The point of that analogy is you can see the carrot on the stick right in front of you. How on earth can you use that analogy and then also say " it sure as hell won't let Rin find out that her father is also a killer" so she can't see him? You don't make sense, and that analogy blew up instantly.
Yes, the entity lied basically to rin she will never get her revenge. However I doubt we would see Rin's father because when she was first recruited it was stated that her overwhelming rage was hard even for the entity to handle so they had to strike a deal even if it would never come to pass. I doubt the Entity would care to have one of it's killers go batshit on them by recruiting Rin's father. It's more likely the alchemist he may be strong but he is still human even if he is souped up on serum so they would need a weapon. And since he's been to the trials he would know exactly where to find one. That's my stupid theory at least.
So im reading from this your main objection is that he's a "murdering pos" and you reject him on moral grounds because he's such a terrible person.....which honestly sounds like a really good pitch for why he should be killer lol
i honestly really like your theory. we don't know if the entity "lied", especially since it has no reason not to keep its oath by letting Rin murder her dad over and over again, but i absolutely think you have a fantastic idea; if the alchemist was a former survivor, it would make sense that he would go back and pick up the katana. or, any hatchet in a locker. or some of the sharp rubble. or anything.hmmm tbh i don't want to think about it that hard.
nah, that's not it at all. i'm more oppposed to him because i think it would ruin spirit's lore, dbd's burgeoning lore, while also making her redundant from a design and thematic pov for the sake of something thats old news.
He shouldn't be a killer (We have spirit, we don't need another) He'd make a great survivor. We have so many survivors that are decent people, it'd be interesting to play someone who arguably belongs in the trials to be chased over and over again.
The Entity can make people see auras, who's to say she can't make people see what they desire most. Alas, there's no point arguing with you. You don't see reason and I can't make the blind see. Just know, when Rin's dad is added, you're gonna be one upset camper reading his lore.
Even if it's stupid I'm rolling with it because I want the Alchemist, the cutscene is kinda badass and the power I'd suspect he'd have (inject to go roid rage on survivors) is something I'd like to have. Could main him if he's good enough
Yeah but calling him a murdering POS kind of gives that impression. It also wouldn't ruin her lore it would add more depth and finally im not a dev but i seriously doubt they would make him a spirit clone. Like why would he be? Spirit is the way she is because after being cut up the entity made her that way
I don't think it would ruin the spirit's lore to much, I think that they can write him in and still keep the lore intact. All they have to do is say that the Entity possibly forged a memory for Rin when they offered her the deal to get revenge on her father to in turn become a killer in the trials.
If you look at Pamela Voorhees she was an innocent woman basically but her assault kind of made her a little crazy and when Jason's stepfather was abusing him that also pushed her over the edge to kill. After Jason's death she continued to murder anyone returning to open Camp Crystal Lake I guess technically she would be considered insane and their is no greater rage than a mother's heart broken by someone she loved, do you see where I'm going with this I'm sure Rin was angry but can you imagine the hate and sorrow her mother felt as her husband desecrated their entire life.
I created an account just to reply to all this nonsense.
There will never be a narrative payoff for Rin. She will never encounter her father. If you are expecting some sweeping story from this game, you are setting yourself for major disappointment. The backstories are only there to give loose context for killers. This game never has been about a grander story. Its a cheap asymmetrical online multiplayer game. Not a Hideo Kojima masterpiece of storytelling.
However, lore wise, I think its safe to assume that her deal with the entity for revenge will never be fulfilled. She is now a husk of what she used to be, filled with rage but little sentience and logic. She will eternally serve the entity, killing for it, never truly getting what she wants.
If she were ever able to get revenge, her spirit would pass on. Her rage would subside. And then she WOULD need to be deleted, to stay lore accurate. The entity has her wrapped around its finger as long as she doesnt exact her revenge.
Her story is meant to be a tragic one. A good person who is turned into a monster, lured in by false promises.
If her father were turned into a killer, she would never know. Killers dont have any contact with each other. She would still thirst for vengeance, but it wouldnt be any closer or further away for her than if her father wasnt a killer.
All of this is beside the point though. Why do you care so much about a tissue thin narrative that only exists to advertise a playstyle and theme for a multiplayer game? It's asinine to expect to learn more about characters in a game like this.
But did you read my theory ?
What if her dad becoming a killer enhances her vengeance?
THANK YOU! I'm so glad someone understands why she cannot have her revenge. I read this whole thread not knowing why people don't realize this
I was trying to say this before I gave up because the discussion was going nowhere. Just wanted to say thank you for laying it all out so sensibly and clearly, and better than I was able to.
I know it's a stupid idea, but it could possibly be the mom?
Look at her character model, how she switches between emotions, how macabre and broken she is.
Rational thought has more than likely been completely destroyed in her.
She's more than likely unable to comprehend anything beyond kill and destroy now that her rage has been ignited. She is a cataclysm in a broken body.
Onryos are similar in mythology. No matter what, the cursed being has become so corrupted by their anger, that is all they know.
It's not 'bad writing'
Rin is not an angry girl looking for vengeance.
She is rage and retribution incarnate. Nothing can appease her now that her wrath has been fully nurtured. Simple as that.
Like it could be a mother-daughter pair.
That's not a stupid idea. We don't know anything really about Rin's mother, so there's a lot more room to work with there. I'm not sure how they would go about making her distinct from the Spirit, though, in the way that killers normally are from one another. Two onryos seems a bit unnecessary.
Why are you "dreading" something that has barely been hinted at yet? We have absolutely no way of knowing what it is yet. I think you're getting ahead of yourself here, nothing has been confirmed yet
I think it'll be her mom-
I wouldn't be mad if he was a survivor. Wed finally get a survivor I wouldn't feel bad for hooking or mori'ing
Entity is an evil force and does not care.She will do everything for food.All killers and survivors are just pawns to her.So it makes sence that she brings him to the her realm since he had gone mad from killing his family.More killers to provide food?Sure.
But just because he is a killer doesnt mean she wouldnt be motivated by revenge. Sure the entity "promised" her vengeance but that doesnt mean she will ever get said vengeance as a matter of fact if she did get vengeance she would have no motivation to kill anymore. Just because he becomes empowered doesnt mean she ever finds out he becomes empowered for all she knows she just has to keep going on to doing the entitys bidding until shes done or the entitys done with her it doesnt destroy the lore it just shows that the entity only does what the entity wants to do the existence of rins father as a killer doesnt change anything
pretty sure one of the devs even said in a year 3 stream she wouldnt get revenge because thats the whole point of a "vengeful spirit"
No, I'm not. I'm operating under the assumption that their lore can be believed, otherwise who cares. Also, I don't know how else to say it: Revenge. REVENGE. It's not vague at all. She hates her dad. Honestly, I'm wasting my time with you. I'm not trying to condescend, but I honestly believe I'm being trolled, nobody is that thick...
Fibjean I'm sorry if I offended a real person, I'm just short on patience because I really can't believe anyone is thick enough to say '"blood and revenge" is all we know of the oath that was made, and that's incredibly vague." like no, it isn't vague, I gave you the definition of revenge. She wants revenge vs. dad. That's not possible with Killer dad. And if the Entity is just a liar, well, the lore sucks and we shouldn't trust anything we here: lying is bad, mmkay? And it makes for lame stories when anything can be retconned/disregarded. No weight or consequence to the writing, setup for no payoff, it's bad writing. Sorry if you're a real person and not a troll btw, I didn't want to offend.
I just hope it's a cool killer, strong enough to actually threaten survivors past rank 10.
I was thinking more of a cosmetic. Sort of like The Leigon. We don’t need a sword wielding Japanese dude who is most likely going to be the exact same. But same killer different outfit and voice. I could probably get behind that.
Like spirit changes? Like the ones the devs talked about during their live stream?
Can't wait to see how many people leave him on the hook to die.
Honestly that's one of the reasons I don't believe you could have a "bad guy" as a survivor. Also because the Entity feeds on "hope" it wouldn't make sense to have someone like Rin's dad be a survivor.
I also hope he ISN"T becoming a killer because I feel that would also just seem awkward.
Dude you need to stop. Your understanding of what motivates people is extremely basic and one dimensional. Your position that she was promised blood and vengeance against her father would rely on him being a survivor so she can actually act against him. He isn't so your entire premise falls apart.
Secondly the first things we usually do when our loved ones or family do terrible ######### is make excuses for them. She may blame society for making her father snap and therefore the revenge she is seeking is just against people in general.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but your outlook is similar to a child's as is your tantrum that people on a forum aren't agreeing with you.
Get over yourself armchair psychologist, don't tell me "What we usually do", and go on to talk about "society" and "excuses"... lmao, read her lore again. She hates him. That was pretty clear. I also don't think you know what a tantrum is, I'm using reason I just have little patience for arrogant people like you xD
Your outlook is similar to literally any other arrogant commenter, so whatever, be wrong, I'm here for discussion, don't tell me to "stop", just go away. please, go away lol.
Ok so if you're telling me I should lower my standards, umm, no, I'm allowed to criticize bad writing, and if they're investing in lore (tomes) now is the time. don't assert there will "never be narrative payoff" when literally all it would take would be an archives cinematic of her finally being able to attack her dad again and again, everytime she completes the trial. An incentive to keep existing from the Entity: That's narrative payoff, and until they explore more lore we don't know if that's happening yet or not.
Imo, a lot of you just aren't creative people. you're too busy focusing on "well entity this, we don't know that" but you're not able to think of where things could go and how that would affect other written stories. not a creative person. this is about writing, it's tough to think about.
If you want to use this entity excuse (The whole point of the entity is to be so vague it can be/do anything, if you're saying "well entity wouldn't like that" that means the Entity is poorly written or you don't understand it) you should consider maybe it feeds off every emotion: fear, hope, anger, sadness, etc...
So why would it let Rin kill her father?
The Entity is being fueled from her RAGE.
You had no arguments, so, ofc. Just because I disagree with your point doesn't mean i dont see reason, maybe your arguments just aren't convincing? hmm? if rins dad is added, i'll laugh and think "wow, they have no respect for their own stories, they could add anything why would they go out of their way to ruin their story so far, seems like a bad idea", not sure if you can feed off that wannabe entity lmao
same reason it lets her kill any other survivor? except from a lore perspective she'll enjoy killing him more, so if the ant feeds off powerful emotion it would make sense. as a killer with no interaction, you lose that.
Why would she kill other survivors if her dad is already dead then?
She already got her vengeance. There would be literally no reason for her to continue killing.
Cool bold letters dude how do you do that?
Cause "death is not an escape", she can do it over and over again. She'd definitely participate in trials and kill anyone she came across without a spare though if her reward was getting 20 mins alone with dad everytime she got a 4k. she has eternal undying hatred for her dad, that's literally her whole shtick, so I don't think she'd ever get tired of it.
the entity feeds off emotion+
rin has a lot of negative feelings towards her dad+
being able to satisfy her need for vengeance (over and over and over) would be extremely cathartic=
entity+rin win over and over and over because they both get what they want.
I doubt the entity would ever tell the spirit it actually has her dad as a killer