What if we replaced bloodlust with fatigue?
As in, instead of killers running faster, survivors run slower after extended exertion without a breather (whether in a chase or not).
This could add new elements of strategy and might help out with infinite loops (perhaps by making fatigued survivors vault slower?) New items/perks could be introduced to fight fatigue or gain benefits from it.
Anyway, before I get attacked, I’m just thinking out loud. Not looking for nerfs, just changes and improvements. Constant sprinting seems, eh, unrealistic at best. Killers have a connection to the Entity, so that at least helps make sense.The Entity has no reason to imbue it’s dinner with endless stamina!
So, how could this be balanced fairly?
Comments
Not could never happen, survs would be up in arms.
I don't really see the difference.
They are both just a way to get around issues with the maps
Can’t happen plus Freddy snares would be op and clown dust op
to be honest I don't see any problem with bloodlust except like Hawkins lol
Why? Devs just have to rework the maps like they did with springwood and after that bloodlust can finally get trashed away.
I don't think this is necessary, especially when I personally hope the poor bandaid fix gets removed and they fix maps but that's gonna be a long time before they fix maps :/
What if we added it in after the first hook so there is something to represent beyond a heal you have been hooked.
It would make more sense
Can’t see this ever happening; survivors would riot.
There would be a clear difference though as a Survivor getting worn out through running would happen throughout the game.
If someone sprints from gen to gen, they would using up their stamina. If the Killer found them while that stamina is used then they wouldn't be able to prolong a chase as well. This would force Survivors to slow down a little in moving around the map. Thus giving Killers that much more time to hunt.
A 3to1 ratio could work Id think while using the same blood lust rules. If a Survivor holds Shift for 15 seconds they drop a tier in move speed up and again at 30 seconds ending at 45 seconds. But for each second a Survivor isn't holding Shift they recover 3 seconds of stamina.
Outside of a chase a Survivor could use their stamina if they want and run everywhere but had to be mindful of it. And in a chase Survivors could use those little moments in mindgames, stuns, pallets to "take a breather" and recover a bit of stamina. You couldn't simply run from loop to loop without it costing you dearly. You'd have to make the best out of each loop and even if it was a true infinite like days of old it wouldn't mean much as the Survivor couldn't run it forever.
Blood lust is no more than a band-aid for bad map making. But a stamina system could be the proper fix, one that doesn't require the devs to remake every single map every few months.
That was EXACTLY what I was thinking with this idea, but dang! You really pulled it all together! That was worded far better than I could’ve done it. This puts the idea into perfectly clear perspective!
As much as I'd like for something like this to be added, it will never happen. It will hamper Survivor gameplay too much for them to even consider it.
A rework of maps is what we need.
Respectfully, I disagree. I think it has great potential to hamper survivor gameplay too much, and so we need to have honest discussion about how to implement something like this fairly.
It can’t be a rush job or band-aid. It needs to be viewed from all angles with opinions and objections to specific aspects being considered.
If we do it right, it could add whole new layers of strategy to the game!
Maybe have it only be a thing during a chase? So survivors can still run around the map when searching for generators?
The idea is cool and I like it but the stamina feature is pretty punishing in games similar to this.
In Last Year: The Nightmare the Killers had stamina and damn if you ran out the moment you reached that kid you wouldn't hit them because your speed went DOWN.
In Friday The 13th the Counselors have stamina but that's because Jason is incredibly slow
Basically you'll regret having stamina introduced into the game because it severely made things harder. Also how are you going to differentiate your Exhaustion from Stamina? That's two different things you have to worry about that almost do the same exact thing.
At this current rate it'll take years to actually reach that point where every map is rebalanced is why.
Which is going to take a very long time since they only do 2 maps a year and even then i doubt they are going to get rid of bloodlust
Exhaustion perks wouldn't need to effect stamina at all and be kept as they are.
My thinking on this is how worthless blood lust is. As it is now you can't build blood lust at all without it costing you too much time. BL needs you to be IN a chase for it to work. This means some loops wont trigger BL like Haddonfield. The Survivor breaks line of sight too much for you to keep in a chase so you never build BL. And without a chase the Entity blocker for windows wont trigger either. This is why the Harvesters on Coldwind are so strong. Someone jumping that vault wont start a chase and can sit there till forced out but can still reach the next loop by the time the Killer commits to the vault himself. And in the cases where you could make use of BL, a Survivor can force you to lose the game doing so from how long it takes. Or simply force you out of BL by pallet camping a safe loop.
Blood lust doesn't work. The Entity blocker isn't good enough. Survivors have too much control over a chase in general. So what is needed is to either take away some of the Survivor's control or limit it.
A main reason why most all mid and low tier Killers are so weak and non-viable is from Survivors running them through loops. If Survivors couldn't loop as well in general. Then map design could be way more open to more ideas, Killers wouldn't need to be so powerful, and we wouldn't have to wait for months or years on constant reworks.
Bloodlust is fine. No need to fix what isn’t broken.
But it's a bandaid, not a fix.
Preach about that BL, I was legit chasing a Laurie tonight around a hill and the shack and because was in an amazing spot she denied me getting into the chase the entire time and the one time I did start it it went away almost instantly because of how she moving. I can understand the concept better now seeing how it would benefit situations like that.
If the Survivor somehow had a passive slowdown then Entity Blockers wouldn't be needed as they'd be slower to reach them, loops would be more unsafe no matter how safe it actually is etc. Bloodlust can be switched to the Survivor side to make them slower instead of making Killers faster, role reversal.
How about we actually fix the maps instead of these bandaid fixes?
Wouldn't this just end up similar to have increasing amounts of bloodlust that never goes down, even when the killer is hitting the survivor? It would be SUPER easy hitting a survivor moving at 85% speed twice.
But how am I supposed to keep killer chasing me for 5 gens in broken maps?
/s
If people would lose Stamina while running and have the fear of running into the Killer without Stamina, they would play immersed. While immersed Playstyle needs to be encouraged, there is nothing more boring than 4 Survivors hiding while they do Gens. When a Survivor is running, a Killer at least has a Telltale that someone is there. I mean, imagine Sprint Burst Users, who are already only walking across the Map to not waste their Sprint Burst. Everyone would play like that, this would make the game way more boring, I would say, because Survivors have a much slower game experience by not running, while Killers have a harder time finding people, because they dont leave any Scratchmarks (Whispers would basically become mandatory).
Furthermore, it is way worse than Bloodlust. While Bloodlust can be removed by kicking the Pallets, Survivors getting fatique does not simply stop like that. The current Balance is that Pallets need to be broken in order for the Survivor to gain Distance. This would not be possible anymore, because the Survivor will become slower and might not reach the next Loop, when the Killer does not decide to break the Pallet. You would need to balance around a new Mechanic, and I doubt that this is gonna happen in a way that is good for both sides.
They could make pallet interactions give back stamina.
Stun the Killer? Full stamina reset. Killer kicks a pallet? Stamina restore. It could even be a global thing that when the Killer gets stunned or kicks a pallet ALL Survivors get stamina back to keep pallets a viable resource. Add that with a 3to1 ratio of regaining stamina with not using it and you have something to work with.
Running gen to gen haphazardly would still be possible. Say you run for 10 seconds to reach somewhere. It would only take 3 seconds to regain all that stamina. As long as you don't have shift glued down, odds are you'll never run out of stamina just moving about the map. Stop to work a gen, stamina regained. Stop to heal someone, stamina regained. Stop to flashlight the Killer and save someone off his shoulder, stamina regained. Stop to T-bag on the other side of a pallet, stamina regained. Attempt to mindgame and wait for the Killer to commit, stamina regained. You should never have a reason to be in a full sprint for THAT long as to run out of stamina.
Unless the Killer is running your ass down, odds are you'll never come close to running out of stamina through smart gameplay. And that's the point. If you are careless, you get punished.
Why would it use the same numbers? Why wouldn't a Survivor regain stamina after getting hit?
Think about it. The overall lost speed wouldn't need to be as much as blood lust gains. The main reason BL is so much of a boost is because of how rare it happens with how little of a help it offers. A Survivor slowing down could be in smaller chunks.
And getting hit could be a mini adrenalin boost, fully resetting your stamina and putting you back to full speed till it ran out again. No reason at all to keep a Survivor moving slow after they already got punished for dragging out a chase too long or wasting their resources too soon.
I Abhor the springwood maps; always giving me such trouble as killer, and such easy escapes as survivor
I would assume fatigue would be reset upon being Hit; plus the speed boost
Besides the 4-5 safe pallets you don't have to break any. You can mindgame every other pallet, or just simply bloodlust
There's 5 loops that a survivor can abuse the hell out of with Balanced Landing or Dead Hard; the Schools Basement (boiler room), that absurd fence with the fault (white wooden), the killer shack (I can forgive cause almost every map has it), the two story house with 2-3 new dropdowns, and the other basement where a generator can spawn; with the 2 side-by-side staircases. A survivor smart enough to recognize that, let alone the entire team, can blow my gens, even with ruin up, if they know what's going on
I think it would be nice if killer had a Bloodlust bank which they can activate in a chase if they want to use up the bloodlust gained from previous chases.
You won't automatically get Bloodlust but you can choose to give yourself a bloodlust speed boost if you have enough in your Bloodlust bank.
Just an idea, likely it'll remain unchanged.