zHypnotism
zHypnotism
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@Roaroftime said:
The logic behind preventing locker flashlight saves is because there is no way to counter it as the killer, fair enough. However, as a survivor in solo queue there is no reasonable way to counter the overpowered killer perk, eruption. So why is it ok for killers to have play styles with no counter but not ok for survivors? Yet another way to unbalance the game and force people to play killer.
eruption and locker saves are by no means comparable... while eruption is annoying as hell when playing survivor and very stale and boring you can at least heal up, count seconds, tap gens and the hud tells you when the obsession is in chase for example to try and avoid the incapitated status (I know all these options aren't great but at least some little form of evasion / counterplay exists) also, killers need to kick gens to activate eruption which potentially gains little to no value and it takes a lot of time to walk to every single gen on the map while locker saves are only done when the killer is near / busy with the survivors being chased and thus will always get value and only requires lockers (which are verywhere since dredge release) to set up. So while eruption might need to get tuned down locker saves are on a different level of broken and even an unintended mechanic so for the fairness of removing other unintended mechanics such as blights hug tech NEEDS to be removed asap
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@KateMain86 said:
Never.
why?
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@Cleverotter said:
Locker saves require skill, and are uncounterable at higher levels.
You know who else is? Nurse.
So lets punish the killer mains that don't main nurse because around 5% of players pick that killer while flashlight saves can be set up in like 100% of games? This is literal hypocrisy... Survivor mains hate Nurse yet want to balance everything around her effectively forcing every killer player to pick her up...
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@toxik_survivor said:
I've been seeing some posts about techs and if they should be removed over the past couple of days and I believe no tech should he removed besides the weired blight one that was fixed a month ago or smthin.
Cj techs, 360s's, window techs, and all the weired ass name techs should not be removed because they create and extra skill set in the game. For the most part it is extremely hard to pull off such techs in high mmr and it gives a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when you do so, especially against good killers. They are fun but difficult and do not break the game in anyway. Although when you 360 and snap your ankles in half its a very good mechanic and skill that can give you reward if you do it correctly.
Most people that complain about techs are no offense, the lower mmr players. It's not your fault though, it's mmr. You are probably supposed to be going against low mmr but you end up going against 3000 swf squad. So yeah I would get why you would complain about removing techs, mmr just destroyes everything and provides horrible statistics and info which leads to people complaining about something that shouldn't be complained about cause mmr fked them up
So Blight techs do not add extra skillset to the character? I mean why have the op survivor techs like the window tech without LOS and locker techs that have very little to no counterplay stay but remove the killer techs? Locker tech feels awful especially on dead dawg saloon in main, that needs to go asap...
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@RonMan32 said:
You don't need a 4k. A 3k is a win. Slugging for the 4k is equally as stale, if not more so. Don't be a sore greedy winner. Hook the 3rd survivor and if you find hatch, great. If you don't, no biggie it was RNG.
The 4th person getting hatch is not a real issue that needs to be addressed. Your ego just can't handle less than a 4k apparently. You're free to slug for now. But that's YOU creating the stale gameplay, not the game. You hooking the 3rd survivor and this tense "who is gonna find hatch first?" is WAY less stale but no you'd rather guarantee the 4k. 20% of the time is really a you issue btw. You're faster and have no need to hide, it's WAY more likely the killer finds hatch first.
but like- why hand out a free escape to the last survivor? why reward him for playing badly and hiding? Giving hatch to decent survivors that were good in chase and got 4 / close to 5 gens done: sure! But giving hatch to players that didnt earn it is wrong - also the slugging wouldnt even be necessary if the last survivor would actually engage in the game which they are not doing.
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@Ashes said:
nice echo chamber.
slugging is just a bit of a dirty tactic and can completely snowball a survivor team within 30 seconds; while flashlight save requires quite tight timing hence this buff going in. flashlight saves feel a bit grief to me too honestly, particularly if a killer has really fought hard and spent a lot of time chasing, only to get blinded, that feels pretty dirty. some circumstances where the killer has gotten a very fast, lucky, or life-threatening down, survivors have no choice but to try it if they can.
slugging can make very short, low points games where even a 4K is less than 20k points for the killer. these games are usually a global depip and 0pip for killer. most of the games that i feel were ruined by early slugging, were when the killer found multiple survivors together and was able to down 1 or 2 very fast due to their rapid movement, and then chased the remaining survivor(s) way off into the distance to get more slugs.
i can see why you would slug a team full of flashlights that are swarming you, but if it's just one guy and you won't even let him try for a blind; some survivor challenges are blind the killer, you might be denying them a chance at that as well.
there are other ways to block flashlight saves, even doing a 180 away from the beamer or looking at a wall before picking up can make it impossible for that specific survivor. if a survivor does make an angle for a blind and you then look away, you get points for doing that too it's called blind evasion so you really do not necessarily need to slug their whole team just to pick one guy up. mixing 2xslug with this tends to be the most effective way anyway as hook states are very powerful too so slugging is like the cheap, basic option, which is also why it feels dirty. if those guys you went against were swf then i have no sympathy for them, it's sweat vs sweat.
slugging for the 4K, even if you saw that last guy run off in that direction but by now he's like 20m away and that's gonna be a decent-length chase; just put the other guy on the hook ffs. i chase till they break line of sight or something, hatch is like the only thing keeping half these survivors in the game after it looks ######### at 3+ gens
so you are saying i should play worse and put my own fun at risk so survivors have a shot at their challenge? I mean sure if i happen to get a down right next to a wall i might as well go for the pickup but yes, even when theres "only" 1 guy trying to save with a blind it feels just as awful on the receiving end and there's little to no counterplay apart from slugging and chasing the flashlight saving ones off...
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Slugging is, by all means, only OK in retalation: If you have a group that is purposefully not doing anything (aka holding the game hostage) then it's perfectly valid to knock them down all at once (this will maybe become an issue when basekit UB hits, because unless bhvr does build in a failsafe, we might easily get matches with 'bully squads' that will continuously pick themselves up but not do anything. so reverse-slugging, if you will. Just as bad)
All other times? It's not okay, because you are preventing people from playing the game.
Also, as killer you are able to ignore someone who runs into you on accident if they have just been hooked and look for others first. That's Tier S skilllevel.
i mean not punishing people for playing badly sounds wrong: if a survivor messes up and runs into me, i shall hit him, no matter if he was the last one to be hooked - it's not like survivors are showing any mercy on my misplays as well...
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245917#Comment_3245917
Franklin's is literally one of the best perks in the game. It dumpsters Med-kits/Flashlights, and if survivors take the time to go pickup their items it's time spent not working on gens.
I do not know why people don't use it more. But I know that Survivors typically find it uninteresting to have their items constantly knocked from their hands the first time they're hit in chase (plus the charge decay).
the only problem is that not everyone want to spend more real money on a game they already paid for to get a pretty meh killer and like 1 good perk while the shrine is inconsistent as hell and some people also don't want to waste their shards to buy the overpriced perks from the shrine when they can get killers or survivors with them as well
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@DH3206 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245912#Comment_3245912
I guess you can just rage about something there is a solution for... And billy isn't that bad.
Running Lightborn every game in case survivors last second switch to flashlights isn't really a viable solution its just unnecessary self impairment but hey at least locker techs are being removed and about the billy thing, well... maybe you should just scroll up and read the entire thread...
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245912#Comment_3245912
Excuse me? Worst killer in the game. Pffft
Bit rich coming for someone that struggles with flashbangs.
I said "one of the worst killers in the game" and in the next post admitted that he wasnt that bad, so your comment is a "bit rich from someone struggling to understand basic texts and reading forum posts" I can teach you how to read structured texts if you want... or if its the letters you're struggling with i could also teach the english alphabet, your choice...
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@Shroompy said:
learn the art of lookaway-jutsu and Flashbang becomes the equivalent of a fart
Loud, and funny with the right group
i sadly cannot determine dropped flashbangs as i am colorblind (and bhvrs colorblind filters don't really work with me) and i can quite often miss flashbangs being dropped especially with 3 people flashlight beaming around me... but yeah guess it's the only reliable counterplay flashbang has... rip controller players...
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Everything is bming coming from killers - oh, you're still on the map after hooking a survivor? Camper - Oh, you hit the Survivor that got saved with borrowed time and is bodyblocking you now? Tunneler - and God forbid you actually go after the survivor trying to flashlight save once you got a down, you filthy slugger! Also emoting and tbagging isnt bming that just uhhhh yeah uhm uhhhhh dancing because survivors felt the vibe yes!
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@Eelanos said:
Why do people entirely disregard Franklin's and Lightborn as they level up. Like, I get it, they're not optimal, but when they work, they do work very well.
And it sounds like you tunnel the crap out of people, so you're an easy target for that stuff. Just equip it and enjoy the hopeless faces of survivors as they realize there's no way for them to save team mates.
it sounds like i tunnel the crap out of- what? I play Sadako with make your choice i love how survivor mains constantly make assumptions that anyone critizising swfs and bullying is a bad player, camper or tunneler... also you may wanna consider that the shrine is very inconsistent and no once has money to buy boring killer just for their perks and last second item switching exists as well and is usually commited to by bully squads...
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@DEMONANCE said:
i agree i think they should add more items to the survivor side and not just stop at flashbangs. cuz survivor side rarely ever get something new to work with.
smoke bombs would be a really really cool addition.
yeah sure i heard the next survivor coming to dbd will be vladimir putin and he will have access to nuclear missiles to nuke killers off the map for 4 minutes
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@zHypnotism said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3245907#Comment_3245907
sure let me pull up the 5 million bloodpoints i have stored up to prestige one of the worst killers in the game just to not have the perk equipped when survivors decide to last seond switch to 4 flashlights, that will surely hel- oh wait.
tbf billy isnt that bad
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@DH3206 said:
Use lightborn, problem solved.
sure let me pull up the 5 million bloodpoints i have stored up to prestige one of the worst killers in the game just to not have the perk equipped when survivors decide to last seond switch to 4 flashlights, that will surely hel- oh wait.
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Solo Q is probably slightly killer sided however decent SWF's on comms literally get free wins against any killer thats not a 1 million hours twitch streamer who sold their soul to the devil... also killer hesitate to bring perks like NOED or Franklins every game as they are considered toxic while survivors never hesitate to bring the strongest, most toxic and sweaty braindead build every single game... which is very interesting...
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What the actual fvck? are you blind to any logic i made? I am not talking about the increase in speed of buying the levels or the actual time spent in the application, i am talking about THE GAMES PLAYED in order to RECEIVE BLOODPOINTS in order to LEVEL UP THE BLOODWEB decreasing, reducing the actual GRIND (playing to EARN something) not about the time spent upgrading a bloodweb...
you aren't even answering anything you are talking about completely different things... it's as if you don't want to actually respond to the points im making...
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242811#Comment_3242811
If you are satisfied with this simple mechanism, you will prove BHVR right with your lack of imagination and your extreme simplicity.
There are several ways to improve the comfort of using the blood web. (I found 3)
But these ideas are against the objective of BHVR.
What? I literally do not find what logic is applied here...
~speeding up the bloodweb grind is against BHVRs objective YET they decided to speed it up... now where is your point?
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242780#Comment_3242780
NightLight cannot possibly know the extent of all the played matches, though. I doubt even half of the playerbase knows what NightLight is, let alone record their matches on there.
It's the closest we get to having actual stats and i doubt the Pickrates are insanely off, it actually makes a lot of sense to see both nurse and blight hover 5% pickrate each (or less with more killers being added)
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242738#Comment_3242738
If you save up your shards enough you have enough to unlock a free character and some perks.
You don't have to spend real money to buy a free character, it's nonsense to do that.
But if you want new killer gameplay, and there are licensed killers, someday you will buy the licensed killer because you will be bored and too limited in your killers.
Regarding the financing of the game.
The game costs $5 on PC and $20 on consoles.
Except that once the game is in the player's hand, BHVR can no longer get money money to survive.
That's why there are licensed characters, paid skins, and the paid version of rewards.
those are sale prices. the official price in the steam store in my country off sale is ~20$
Also you tell me that i can save my shards to unlock a new character. Thanks, I didnt know /j. My point was that it is useless to unlock survivor characters for 9000 as they bring no new gameplay and cost more than just getting the perks for 6000 total, UNLIKE WHAT YOU SAID, being that it is more profitable to buy and level up characters. + You are also ignoring several other points i made... why is that?
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242795#Comment_3242795
You still have to click and hold a billion multiple times on an item to get them and advance to the next level.
If you think there is a change in the blood web without paying attention to this point, then keep your eyes closed for another 6 years.
Excuse me what? There is definetely a speed up in the bloodweb. You still need to click the same amount of times to level it, but things costing less means you have to spend less time actually earning the bloodpoints, meaning that it's most definetely a speed up...
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@Lobos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242792#Comment_3242792
That I can agree with, this thread isn't about survivor vs killer and what's more annoying though. It's about losing pips on either side for things out of your control. It's just a lot easier to lose a pip as a Survivor multiple games in a row because of bad matchmaking, poor teammates, or killers that won't let people play the game.
how often do you de-pip? It happens very rarely to me, even in solo queue, maybe once every 12~13 survivor matches... and it was never a problem for me... maybe you just got unlucky with a few lobbies?
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242730#Comment_3242730
Ash is a licensed character, so he costs real money.
BHVR has been nice to you from the start, but you spit on them.
Either you accept the fact that there are licensed characters, who participate in the financing of the game and you play the game by buying them.
Either you refuse to buy them and wait for their perks in the shrine.
You have a lot of free characters (even if it costs shards) that have interesting perks.
But good sir wants everything, right away.
WHY. WOULD. YOU. WANT. TO. FINANCE. A. GAME. THAT. COSTS. MONEY. FROM. THE. START.
also you are completely missing this guys point. The same argument can be applied to Jane Romero for example. She can be either bought for 9000 shards and the be leveled up or all of her perks can be bought for 6000 shard total. now what costs less? So saying that is more profitable to (buy and) level up characters is literally wrong...
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242717#Comment_3242717
If I talk about waiting 3 months you can imagine that it's not about the shrine but about the release of a new killer and new survivor perks.
Regarding the shrine change,
If there are 8 perks in the shrine, the probability that you will see the same perk coming back will be deliberately higher because BHVR wants players to spend time on their game above all else.
" As a reminder BHVR can act on the shrine and exclude a perk from their random dice roll, but they don't. "
It's not in their interest to give us 8 perks a week because players will spend less time in the game as they get everything faster.
You have no patience while the developers of you are already giving you a lot of gifts.
And for your information, it's not the accessibility of perks that keeps players in the game.
What keeps players in the game is the gameplay and the fact that there is no strong competitor or alternative to BDB.
(Not including funding the game through skins, licenses, and the Rift.)
DBD has this unique concept of generators, perks and hooks, player behavior, that no game can ever replicate better.
why did they speed up the blood point grind then? doesnt that make us get stuff faster as well?
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@Lobos said:
I just love all the killer biased comments. You just cant help yourselves can you? It's people like you that ruin these forums always assuming players are bad and thinking you deserve to win every single game.
Never even admitting that killers have the upper hand. You have to come into every neutral or survivor sided topic and spout out all your theories and nonsense about how the game is so unfair for Killers.
Annoying scenarios aren't actually a balance problem. I didnt say Locker Techs were OP or hiding was an unbalanced strategy. Just as pips don't determine wins. I just said they are equally annoying as getting camped or tunneled. Balance is a whole different thing.
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@Audiophile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3241069#Comment_3241069
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I heard that the great majority of killer games are vs solos vs swfs. If someone has the exact percentages, please post. But I believe it was like 10% were swf. So…. 90% of your games are easy but you need the last 10% to be made easier too…
That's funny because according to nighlight.gg and recent Killer Pickrate stats, Blight and Nurse together make up for ~10% combined pickrate... so 90% of your games are easy but you need the last 10% to be made easier too?
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@Sharpefern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3242754#Comment_3242754
How are Lery's more mind gameable. All of them are either in loops that can 100% be seen over or pallets that block the entire hallway. Like they seem the same level of complexity.
you can still, over 100% seeable loops force vault commits and then double back, or predict a non vault and commit to a lunge at the pallet. It's 50/50able, unlike the pallets on the game which block off entire sections and have no actual "Loop" around it and just need to be broken because you need to go trough like 2 different rooms to get on the other side of the pallet if you don't break it.
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@Lobos said:
Early tunneling, camping, teammate suicides happen way too often to keep losing pips. It's supposed to be a measure of how much time we put in the game and we are not putting negative time into trials.
Since nothing is being done about camping and tunneling before the gens are completed the very least you can do is stop the loss of pips because of them. I'm sick of playing Survivor and being dragged down by other survivors because of a bad matchmaking system or by a killer that won't let me even play the game because they have to win every single game. It's not fun at all.
"since nothing is being done about camping and tunneling"
-borrowed time basekit
-reassurance
-unbreakable basekit coming
Also: Survivors can also impair Killers in obnoxious ways, just because killers cant be stopped from moving with wasd doesn't mean that it's exactly enjoyable to be held hostage by hiding surivors for ridiculous amounts of time, to be locker tech'd by bully squads or to be unable to hook people because of saboing - but hey, sure, being stuck for literal 10-20 minutes in a game that's basically finished can't be worse than being camped for 90s because at least killers can move around right?
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It's because Lerys Pallets are mindgamable while most pallets on the game are literally braindead and ruin the looping experience. I somehow go the game quite often and especially against players that don't really know how to loop the experience is just boring, they pre-drop every single pallet and you are forced to break it since every second pallet on the game is either completely safe or only very hardly mindgamable. The pallets on the game are also ridiculously close to each other and it can happen that there are 2 god pallets right next to each other being 2 free loops and like 60 seconds of free time at least, during which you can lose 1-2 gens easily. Lerys has a few annoying windows but the pallets in general arent that bad and usually on pretty short loops that can be mindgamed without too much sweating.
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239564#Comment_3239564
Licensed characters are not a valid argument, as the primary purpose of licensing is to help fund the game.
You can't ignore the fact that prestige a character costs less in the long run, than buying these perks in the shrine one by one.
The new player who would launch your version of the game, would simply be in a comma by seeing 8 perks at 2000 shard in the shrine.
how do you need to fund a game that is not even free to play in the first place and costs even more on console than on PC as the standard edition isnt even available there?
Also why would i want to buy stale and bad Killers (like Michael, who is literally a more basic and worse Ghostface) just to get 1 good Perk off of him?
Games that cost money shouldn't have to lock their content behind paywalls so excessively. Call of Duty removed DLC Maps being paywalled and is selling better than ever, so do a lot of other games. Also you do not just need to spend money on licensed characters, you technically need to spend it on non-licensed characters as well since if you buy them with shards you wont have enough left to buy the actual perks in the shrine so what you're saying makes little to no sense...
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you thought survivors were dominating the devs? wait until they listen to toxic survivors and remove the nurse blinks and just make her an M1 Killer lmfao, while also removing all blight techs to remove his looping pressure, effectively nerfing blight by a lot too. What's next? Idk, maybe Basic Attacks get removed and Killers instead get spyglasses to watch survivors walk out the exit games... maybe one day the Killer Role may actually be completely replaced by the spectator role...
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@Onyx said:
I love how all the killer mains in this thread are like: Bamboozle? Perfectly fine perk, just adapt, survivors!
But god forbid there were a similar perk for survivors, even if limited to a timer or being an exhaustion perk. It's only fine if survivors have to deal with dumb mechanics, like blocking windows whenever you want or Endfury, but killers should not have to deal with any such annoying mechanics.
You know what I want? a Franklins equivalent for survivors, when used (maybe when stunning a killer with a pallet) it makes them drop their addons, which they have to pick up. It also removes charges from addons and makes them get disabled if they are on the ground too much. I mean, when people complained about Franklins I saw a killer just say "just adapt and learn to play without items", well then I think killers should learn to play without addons.
this is an insanely, insanely bad idea, as Killer addons aren't just handy little buffs such as a med kit allowing for faster heal, but actually possibly game changing mechanics that killers base their whole playstyle and perk build around. Also survivors shouldn't get the same capacities as Killers, this is not call of duty, survivors shouldn't be able to take away the Killers Rescources by any means. Not by blocks, not by addon-disabling or anything. That's just not how the game is meant to work. Survivors try to get out, not cripple the killer.
Also, if survivors can use Killer perks and mechanics now, please let killers have equivalents of all the following perks:
Lithe, Bond (!), Empathy, Sprint Burst, Flashbangs / using Flashlights, let them hide in lockers and give them head on to be able to stun survivors, let them pull down and vault pallets, and give them the ability to repair generators and mess up skill checks. also, let them rebuild sabotaged hooks, make them able to lock the hatch so that not even a key can open it and make them able to close the exit gates again after they have been opened.
Survivors and Killers are entirely different roles, and it wouldn't work to just give them an equivalent / countering opposite of every single perk or action they have at their disposal.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143013#Comment_3143013
"This man" is talking about, if you tried to read what I wrote before ferociously defend camping, that it is unhealthy and unfun for most of players. That's the main issue. In computer game it is cheesy unfun tactic. Unfun. DbD is not a job, not a war where everything goes. It's competitive multiplayer game with rules and conventions.
So again, please, stop defend camping with "at certain point" or "at some circumstances". It is abused by many without "certain points" and at least because of that should go. "Yes, sorry, it would be nice to have camping in that scenario, but it's not exist. Sorry, use other tactics, have a nice day."
Tactic that works only on average teams is not a good tactic. And if some killer got 0K instead of 1K because there is no camping, nothing terrible with that.
Anyone can tell me about certain circumstances all day long, but I wouldn't understand it anyway, because LITERALLY last 5 matches I saw tunneling and camping right of the bat, from 5 gens start.
certain scenarios and circumstances are what make a game where everything is about the killer played and the perks brought, also, dbd is not a competitive game, it's a party game. stop tryna make it a high skill game, this is not league. it's fun based. about fun. and kills are fun. but let's not take this any further as you are clearly unable to have a non biased opinion on the topic and go in ways too radical, it's a shame really, but if you enjoy discussing like this, go for it.
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@EvilSerje said:
I agree, it's not every camper, but majority of them (at least on my MMR/server). But I really inclined to think that giving abusive unhealthy tactic to "downtrodden" killers as consolation prize is not healthy:
a) it will be abused by others, ofc, but besides that:
b) it won't force killers to develop skills
c) it is unfun behaviour for all participants (at least 4 of 5), and in computer game everything should be fun (that's the idea, right). I'm not talking about "I'm losing, it's not fun, that on is personal"
Let's take survivor, for example. Extremely frustrating experience unless you're many-thousand-hours god-looper. (I have 1200+ and playing survivor is still can ruin my mood). And yet there is not any "consolation prize" for survivor. Like "Ok, you get downed every 5 seconds, here's invulnurability till the end of match, bud". It sounds absurd, right? But for the killer it's turning off most of protection perks in endgame, camping/tunneling, etc. No, for survivor you have to git gud, because there is no other option. And I think THAT IS what should apply to BOTH sides. Forcing killers to git gud. Just by removing cheese option. Like it is not existed in DbD like AK-47s and rocket-launchers for survivor.
Look, you can't saw survivor in half with chainsaw right away, right? He first go down, then you hook him, if he unhooked you need to down him again, hook again. Ridiculous, right? In real life the moment survivor on the floor, I'd saw his limbs off. That is "game convention".
So for the same reasons devs should just remove ability to camp, under same game conventions.
Yes, it will be painful at first, but will drastically improve killers skill, which is great in long term. Because now no reason to develop if it's fine as it is. That's our human nature.
TL;DR
Patting new/bad killers on a head and giving them a cookie to not being frustrated is very bad. Throwing in a middle of the lake to teach them how to swim much better (exactly like survivors are thrown).
this man wants to "force killers to develop skills". in a party game. Camping isn't even necessarily cheesing. Stand in front of the first survivor you hooked for a min and see many kills you get. 1 at best... there's no such thing as "forcing people to develop skills", campers, tunnelers, normal players and everyone else will achieve better decisionmaking just by playing. and survivors aren't forced to git gud either, because your solo escape isn't as much as 4K for a Killer. If you get tunneled out and are the only survivor dead by the end of the match then technically many would consider your team as the winning team. there's your prize - if killers go out of their way to kill you, others will benefit form it. Not being able to camp anymore won't lead to a skill inflation in killers. Getting a Kill trough camping is not a cookie. It's just the best thing you can do at a certain point to get the most kills. It is your objective to get as many kills as possible, and camping is just a way to complete it: getting as many kills as possible. if that is the 1 kill you get from camping a basement hook in endgame collapse, you still got more objective completion than a 0k... your point makes zero sense, what are you talking about?
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3142797#Comment_3142797
THE WALLS OR NOTHING ABOUT IT CHANGES OMG LOL, the only thing that changes is the Gens swap positions slightly and thats it
as i said, i don't think the redesign made it better. but i am happy to see that the devs are starting to see RPD as a problem because it certainly is the worst map in the game by 500%. would rather play the swamp every game than play good maps for 99 games and RPD once because the map is just THAT bad.
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i find all maps to be fine size-wise instead of RPD. there's nothing wrong with a slightly bigger map as long as you can navigate it, which can't be done with RPD but honestly i don't care if the devs ruin every single map in the game - im fine as long as i never have to play old RPD again.
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I literally threw every game on RPD, for both survivor and killer. Haven't played RE2, have no interest in memorizing a whole maze with changing walls where aura reading is useless and gens impossible to find as survivor while i also can't recall how many survivors i've dropped as killer because i couldn't make it to hooks. I don't even think a rework / redesign cuts it for this map, i think it should be removed from the game entirely as i never had fun for a single game while playing this map...
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I'm not too sure on this one. The swarming seems to be a bit over the top, granting swarms that you don't even need to shot / aim that grant you free map pressure, slowdown and passive anti-looping as they slow vaults? not sure. Luring the candyman seems pretty useless- why would you wanna have your aura shown to the killer? if you want to attract their attention, just do a fast vault somewhere or use a locker...
Also, having teleports as well will literally make Candyman a different freddy with an artist like touch - one multi-use thing similar to the snares, that grant brief anti-loop and one map pressure power. it's getting a bit much with the teleporting, however i do really like the idea of having teleport points that completely respawn at different locations every few seconds, perhaps if that would happen in a predictable pattern, that would be very interesting for the killer to play with, as they can center their macromanagement around these teleports. The Hex: Seperated Perk should be fixed to something different, as especially in the lower tiers, the perk is completely useless. Seeing a cooperative action in 12 from you? If it's a gen, you can hear it, if it's healing... well you can just use Nurses Calling, that works for all survivors, since you can hear gens anyways... maybe fix the range to something bigger like 42 meters and make the aura linger for 2 seconds after you leave the radius or the cooperative action ends, or give it some bonus slowdown for the obsession of 1/2/3 %, because otherwise it's just a worse Nurses that can be turned off by survivors...
Unfaithful seems pretty useless as well, SFTBL seems to do the job a ton better consistently, however i do like the idea of making another attack cooldown based perk. maybe something that gives you permanent cooldown reduction after every hit but you lose all tokens on down?
Never Let Go seems really interesting, i think blocking hooks would be a terrible idea that shouldn't be implemented because it would be toxic towards the game, but i guess it's never wrong to go with unhooking / exposed type perks, they usually discourage tunneling and encourage going for the people rescuing, which is nice.
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@solidhex said:
i haven't read your text but generally:
the game is more fun if you don't take it seriously and just "play". There is no win condition. Some say (like in comp for example) it's hook stages, some say it's kills. Some try to get high BP. But there really is non except the one you're making for yourself.
If you play for kills, getting one surv out of the game is important because a 4v1 until endgame against a good team should be unwinnable (aka 3k-4k) if they don't make big mistakes. You should still try to pressure important gens but keep an eye at your hooks. There is a lot of decision making involved, but having your hook inside your 3 gen is always a good play. Sometimes you have to leave the tunnel to go for another survivor who is pressuring the important gens.
But i wouldn't mind too much if survivors escape. If i dominated in chases and get around 8-9 hook stages but still 3 man escape, then i'm not mad because i know i played well. Playing for kills can be incredibly boring because it involves a lot of proxy camping and going for weak links instead of chasing that one good survivor who is actually a challenge and fun to play against.
"the game is more fun when... " is highly subjective, tho i agree on the hook near 3-gen thing. can play out amazing. Also, who doesn't like having played well? But wouldn't it be even more fun if you played well AND got the 4K xd? Anyways, some games are fun, others aren't really because of dcs or whatever. Just going on to the next one is the thing to then i guess.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141538#Comment_3141538
You mention killers who don't have to tunnel when they win anyway 90% of time at least.
except that no normal player really 4Ks 90% of their games... and playing strong killers doesnt guarantee a 90% winrate...
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@EvilSerje said:
You know what give away "loser" mentality? Phrases like "not leave the game completely empty handed" and "getting 0 kills with 8 hooks - one of the most unsatisfying things". This screaming "I'm not a killer, I'm beaten downtrodden creature and accept scraps from the floors". Camping and tunneling even more adds to it (first one doesn't work on skilled teams, second one is very dangerous roll dice), plus neither adds any skill to you and that's the most important things.
So, don't be that person. The most effective way for killer:
- Fix your mind. It's a computer game, nothing wrong is to lose, but it's very wrong not to learn and wrong to cling to "scraps from floor".
- Learn macroplay and strategize every your next move (when to drop chase, when to start, where to push survivor, when to use ability, etc). It will change your playstyle immensely.
I recommend RedsGamingGears channel for education, dude explain every his move and decision, I learned a lot from him.
Problem with killers is that at the start its easy mode. Killer just technically cannot lose. And when there is no challenge, no need to improve your skill. Suddenly, when MMR skyrockets, you meet decent teams without skill, and dynamically killer cannot comprehend that it's skill issue.
For me Killer is never stressed, because:
- as killer I always play. Win, lose, successful, not so much, I play still. From start to end. As a survivor it's never your decision and that is frustrating.
- I would 100 percent chose to go against strong and challenging opponent and lose that go against weak and win. Maybe it is my former sport experience talking, but still, I'd better be worst among the best than best among the worst. I never learn and won't improve from weak opponent. In short, again, make up your mind.
What are you talking about? Scraps on the Floor? I am not a greedy person, i just enjoy making the most out of my games, which is in Dead by Daylight killer games getting the most possible kills - whats wrong with that? Would you rather get 1 kill or no kill? That doesnt mean i'm not willing to reflect my mistakes - im just trying to make the best out of bad situation which may absolutely be my own fault which i also take into account. but there is nothing with my mental to be fixed - I stress myself, because i enjoy going in for rewards - what's wrong with that. If i wouldnt enjoy stressing and challenging myself long term then i wouldn't be playing this game would i? You talk about this game like about going to the gym: don't do it for quick fun but do it for long term improvement. Thats not my ambition however, i have very limited time to invest in the game, acknowledge that withoutenough time investment it will be harder for me to become insanely good at the game - so i just try to make the most out of my current skill level by figuring out effective strategies and ways to play. It's quick fun in the breaks of the rough days i'm having - if you can't respect that then i am really sorry for you.
Also good job with this whole "analyzing how he put the words to find out what kind of person he is" - spoiler, it's not convincing ;)
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@Hensen2100 said:
This is way too broad to answer in one post. It really depends on your perks, the killer, and how important the gens near the hook are.
I can give you my perspective as someone who mainly plays a lot of dredge; but has also played every killer extensively at some point.
Typically I want to return to hook to interrupt the heal because I am running sloppy butcher, but ideally I am not camping the hook at all. So I usually teleport off immediately after hooking someone to go chase someone off a gen across the map somewhere (using information perks, discordance usually, to figure out where to go) and possibly score a hit.
From there I will return to hook a few seconds once the unhook happens, ideally coming in to interrupt a 70-80% heal and then hitting the healing survivor to spread damage and build more nightfall.
I would play opportunistically from here, going after the easiest target rather than going out of my way to tunnel. It might even be worth teleporting back to the generator across the map instead of going after either
Of course if it all falls apart, then I will try to tunnel someone to death but it doesn't play to dredges strengths at all and is a desperation move
Thats just what I'm talking about: typically you have the opportunity to return to the hook, by a teleport, or blight rush or whatever, because you know that survivors will be there doing some kind of action, healing in this case and you get free pressure on both of them. and then you go after the easiest target - which is most likely and injured survivor over a healthy one. Thats just what i meant to explain with my post - that sometimes tunneling is just the easiest thing you can do (by your opportunistic decisionmaking) to get good games. Nothing about going out of your way to tunnel, but tunneling being a result of a killer making the least risk highest reward choices.
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@INoLuv said:
Tunneling and camping will work only against bad survivors. Focus on a 2v1 instead of a 4v1.
not necesserily. its actually very good to annoy SWFs sometimes that really really don't wanna lose their friends early. also its not hard to do, especially not on nurse blight or spirit, with very decent anti looping and map pressure. Starstruck on Nurse makes it even harder to counterplay this especially when SWFs try to go for a mass rescue, so either they let their mate die quick making it a lot easier for the killer or they play risky and might all get downed and slugged, so that the tunneling applies just the pressure that the killer wanted to apply when tunneling in the first place...
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@amazing_grace said:
Hmmm... well, I'll choose artist since she is my main, (I've played most of the killers you listed). Usually in this scenario I would just be gone from the hook. Unless they insta hook or I see nothing on BBQ, I'm going to just leave the hook and apply pressure somewhere else.
Artist is oppressive enough that I don't need to worry about tunnelling someone out unless I'm down real bad because the survivors played well. Usually I won't tunnel someone out unless theres only 1-2 gens left and I know I need to.
I have to full on disagree with you when you said that 8 hooks and 0 kills is the most unsatisfying thing. To me, 0 hooks is literally the worst thing in this game, especially when you get really close but they just play too well. It doesn't happen often, but every blue moon you'll get a really good team that you just can't catch. I personally would rather get 8 hooks than get only 2-3 hooks on one survivor to get the kill. I care more about the blood points than getting a kill and "winning."
Tunneling isn't fun from the survivor side, but it definitely is an understandable tactic at some point in the game in certain scenarios. The only time I get annoyed with it is when the killer decided to do it at the start of the game where they're debatably throwing the game by doing so. The problem is they aren't always punished because the team tries to take hits when they should just sit on gens. There have been times where I "pretend" to tunnel someone just so I can get some easy hits from their teammates and I just immediately switch targets because usually that survivor is not in a good position by taking that hit.
Sometimes you must tunnel to get a kill and that's fair because it is a pvp game. As long as you aren't a bad sport about it, I don't see a problem.
Firstly:
getting 0 kills with 8 hooks - **one of the most** unsatisfying things in the entire game.
you failed to quote me right. one of the most unsatisfying things doesn't make it unrivaled, of course getting 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 or 0 Hooks with no kills may actually be even more unsatisfying. Glad we could figure that out.
As for Artist, i don't main her but i do feel like she excels at getting one survivor out quickly and then transitioning that into an easy win: good artist players play around the centre of the map a lot (at least thats the impression i got from streamers playing her), especially at the start of the match and when you get a hook near the centre of the map, preferably a scourge hook, why commit to a far off gen? You have everything you need, especially on smaller maps - you can harass every gen with your crows without needing to actually go there or by faking to go there and forcing people off with your crows, you can regularly line up hooks and gens to check on both at the same time, sometimes with one crow, so you can tunnel one out without much effort. I mean if straying far off works and you regularly catch survivors off of strong loops go for it, but i feel like one of the Artists main benefits is just that you DON'T have go to gens to actually pressure them and can thus defend hook and gens decently well at the same time. Have it your way tho - also i don't play BBQ on Artist but i def see why you would, maybe your general perk builds reward straying off the hook a lot more, idk - but i do doubling back to hooks is a very nice option you get on artist and wins a lot of games.
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while he does need changes im not sure wether it has to be a complete rework from the ground up
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so he is basically saying:
Good Nurse player vs bad Solo Q Team: unbalanced, rito pls fix
Good survivor SWF vs inexperienced player on a weak Killer: Totally fair
the logic of some surivor mains...
(and then he pulls up with "i dont care about this discussion logic while he STILL responds, lol)
Skill based matchmaking fails to do everything its supposed to do, it just makes matches annoyingly hard for both sides, remove it to a minimum. that way not all matches feel the same and you can get the chance to have a decent balance of matches at equal skill, matches where you can dominate and sometimes those very frustrating ones where you get completely dominated. that's just how it works.
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depends on how i feel and how the survivors played. i tend to give hatch out when the survivors got 4/5 gens done and played well. if i annihilated them, well might as well go for the 4k. if they were annoying, hiding, wasting time, flashlight bullying etc. no, no hatch for you.
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@SgtMittens said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/341774/2-hooking-every-survivor-is-the-worst-strategy
People like you I just can't figure out. It's a game, it should be played to have fun. There is literally nothing tangible waiting for you at the end of a match if you escape or get 4 kills. No money, no trophy, no applause, nothing.
well fun is very subjective. im not having fun when i feel helpless and like my active input has no influence over the outcome of a match, hence i do not enjoy "losing". some people want to win to have fun and winning may include tunneling. everyone who says "why do you want to win, its about fun" just doesnt understand why some people play video games in the first place, winning IS our fun, at least to some extent - if it doesnt matter what you do and how you do, then why even play the game at all?
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@I_am_Negan said:
If you want a easy win camp/tunnel and boost you're ego😴
If you want a challenge play the 12 hook game knowing if you get a 3K/4K it actually took skill to get done🤩
then one could argue that you might as well play only the worst killers without addons or perks just to give yourself a challenge... that's just not how it works. Survivors will go merciless on weaker killers, no going easy even if you obviously run no addons at all - the game is just not designed to have inefficent strategies used, thats usually how a meta works...