xltechno
xltechno
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666817#Comment_3666817
The thing about map balancing is that within the roster killers function in widely different ways. A wide, flat map is amazing for Blight, Nurse, Hillbilly, Artist, Huntress, Trickster, and so on but awful for Ghostface, Myers, and other killers who rely on stealth. Unfortunately there’s no way to make a map that works for all killers powers. And of course maps still need to work for survivors as well. :)
yes. So I think it's okay to have some advantages and disadvantages. Therefore, what is needed is to suppress xcessive advantages and disadvantages while also providing variation.
By the way, nurses are better at narrow maps. She's only good at her momentary mobility, not so much her sustained mobility. Bright is at its best on large maps.
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@TieBreaker said:
The game's balance is just not forgiving enough for survivors until they have played hundreds or sometimes thousands of hours. I feel like some killers will play for a hundred hours or so, do well and just assume that survivors are inherently less talented than they are, without taking any time to consider that maybe the game's systems are just more punishing for survivors learning the game. This is why killers do extremely well at lower MMR and gradually get weaker as they climb the MMR ladder.
Whilst I understand that survivor nerfs have to happen to maintain balance at the highest MMR, we can't just pretend that those nerfs don't keep raising the skill floor for survivors who haven't been playing the game for the last few years at least. A survivor with a hundred hours or so is not going to be able to make tunneling a losing strategy against a killer with a similar amount of experience.
What we need is a choice-based play system for beginners, rather than a public system that applies to everyone.
Like modern and classic in Street Fighter 6. Modern, which has inferior overall ability but is strong against tunnels and camps, and is easy to survive until the end. It will be a kind game.
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@Atom7k said:
After playing many hours you kind of get a feeling how fast a killer or a survivor can be and what the limits of the pers are that are acessible in the game.
Last match one of the survivors was incredibly hard to catch. I lost sight of him for just one second when he went around the corner but somehow he gained distance. I was starting to doubt myself as I couldn't catch up to him. I know I slow down when using the birds of the artist so that was already not my favourite option when looping the Ormond main building. Not even dropping from the top slowed him down enough to catch up. At the end I had to mindgame him into a pre placed bird to get him.
So after that match I was pretty sure he used some kind of speedhack but then the doubts came back.
I have more matches frequently where I doubt the movement of the survivors and when they win mindgames nonstop. Ultimately I think I have a good feeling for what's possible in dbd and what is odd but I don't know how to prove it either in a report or just to myself.
In this situation, it is physically impossible for the distance not to shorten, so we can only judge based on accumulated experience.
Especially when playing as a Survivor, it is difficult to notice other Survivors cheating. Because We often take different actions.In any case, please report it proactively. Even if it is futile, it is a deterrent.
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If it weren't for the flashlight clicks and tea bag shaking, things would still be pretty good so far.
Even though the killer disparity can no longer be helped, there are limits to just tinkering with abilities to balance things out. In the first place, the biggest factor that separates M1 killers from other powerful ones is the poor map design.
If you create a map of the inside of a 5-6 story building, the mobility of the Nurse and Bright will be suppressed, and the M1 Killer will have nothing to lose. Therefore, it is urgent to refine map design.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666712#Comment_3666712
So you acknowledge this is not a team game good.
no. It's an advantage for survivors if they don't slack off, but this means that few people understand that. If the survivor is just immature, I'll point that out, but I won't blame them. Because it's your next opportunity to grow. That is included the team theme.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666705#Comment_3666705
That's because YOU choose to play as a team. Most people don't and again AT ITS CORE its not a team game. I don't even touch gens anymore because its boring a win for me is getting saves and memeing on the killer. Escaping is not a win to me and a lot of people don't want to play the game the way you do and some do but that's a choice of gameplay at the core of it all you don't gain mmr from dying even if you helped all three people escape making it not a team game if you got mmr based on all the survivors that escape then it would be a team game.
Repeat. Yes, sometimes with selfish survivors. Sometimes that's not the case, and I just understand that to be the case. If the matches are consistently bad, it's obvious that the survivors are either immature or only interested in their own survival and don't understand that they are putting themselves in more danger.
I believe in the theory that human nature is evil, but I believe in my fellow survivors. This is because the gameplay can only be achieved on that basis.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666690#Comment_3666690
So you -want- to use data not reflective of the current state of the game so that the results better align with your biases?
Why stop at the past year at that point, why not take MoM release day's killrates instead?
Do I have to say which is more accurate, a month or a year? If you want to move away from statistics, go ahead. And it seems that my annotations were ignored, so if you want to be fair, you can compare them with February and March respectively. If the development is announced.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666629#Comment_3666629
I have 4k hours in the game in solo q it is not a team game if all of my teammates escape and I don't my mmr goes down. Explain to me how that is team based.
If the survivors actually understand each other's roles and killer is chasing them, I will complete the generator without wasting a second and will not hesitate to hook trade to rescue them.
If I am being chased, the other survivors will waste no time in completing the generator and reward my chase.
If a lone survivor hasn't been rescued even though it's been a while since they left the generator, I'll head over there, join hands with the survivor who couldn't rescue them alone, rescue them together, and escape at three 1 hit-survivors. It will be.
It's a team play.
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Now let's add a function to the killer to block specific survivors. Well, unlike killers, survivors have the same abilities, just different perks, so how about making it a function that blocks all four perks of survivors? You can enjoy a meaningful dbd life by blocking each other!
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I mention it because it may need some explanation. The average is only determined from the whole. Even if there are no 50% of people in the world, if there are an equal number of 60% people and 40% people, the average is 50%.
If a killer's kill rate is 70%, there may be a polarization between survivors who are killed at 90% and survivors who are killed at 50%.
In addition, what the development has shown is only for January, when MFT was weakened and the 3 gens system was not functioning. What we should really refer to is the total for the past year. Some players know what this means.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666645#Comment_3666645
That math still doesn't add up to 60% also the math doesn't work because the SWF escape rate is only 48% not 50. You are just taking numbers out of blue and hoping they work with your explanation but none of your numbers are data based just numbers you wished were true.
I'll point out your mistake. One person's performance is on average 60%, another person's average is 50%, and the other two are on average 45%.
If you are 50% and 48%, there is a big difference! It's different! If you say so, just change the remaining two people to 41%. There's no point in that.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666082#Comment_3666082
Problem with buffing other slowdowns is that it doesn't create more variety. It just makes the meta builds even stronger since people will just stack all the Pain Res level slowdown together in one package resulting in very oppressive builds that will make gens almost impossible to complete. Doesn't mean I don't think other options shouldn't be introduced, but I think there needs to a bit of both (nerfs to the best perks, buffs to the weaker ones) in order to try to create variety. (But in all honesty, I don't think there'll ever be true variety in this game as long as slowdown perks continue to outclass every other perk available.)
If that's the case, what Killer needs instead are perks to bring survivors down quickly, perks to inhibit healing, and perks to accelerate hook progression.
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Unfortunately, killers are always supported by self-help. Unlike Survivor. Things will be a little better if you survive the winter period.
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@sinkra said:
I forgot to mention Corrupt Intervention. 3 GENERATORS BLOCKED FOR 120 SECONDS?! Then the killer can simply patrol the few gens remaining AT THE START. This is absolutely ridiculous. It's not even interactive, these perks passively prevent survivors from doing their one objective.
One Survivor will take over the chase, and the remaining Survivors will complete the generator. And once someone goes down, it's already invalid.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666517#Comment_3666517
Did you not read the new stats where do you get this 60% the devs have shown the kill rate is 60%. Both sides cant have 60%
First, at high MMR, almost 50% of survivors escape. And the possibility that there are some survivors escaping more should be understood by the following arithmetic.
(45%+45%+50%+60%)/4=?
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666515#Comment_3666515
That's completely not true. You can learn all you want but killers are going to tunnel its a much easier game 1v1v1v1 vs 1v1v1v1v1. Contrary to you're beliefs I don't know if you are new but unless you are in a swf this game is not a team game.
No, that's not the case. All long-time Survivor players know that even soloQ has some bad matches and some great matches. I am also one of them.
HUD has greatly improved soloQ Survivor's coordination. Survivors just only need to know from experience who wants what. A team can be formed simply by gathering talented survivors.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666574#Comment_3666574
The Killer is still averaging over two kills.
That isn't even close to your proposed SIXTY percent escape rate.
The average of 10 and 0 is 5, don't stop thinking.
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https://youtu.be/Jqyt-BOzsVM?si=bE5UYM223C8TISFu
This video clearly shows what many of the people who criticize tunnels and camps are like.
The first survivor should have left the area after taking the first hit, and if he was going to be knocked down, it should have been done far away. This is what makes the killer camp.
The second person has the worst pre-positioning. Why did you go out of your way to hide in a place where you would be locked up? Naturally, he take one hit from the killer.
It's still better, but the third is should have made it clear be hide or rescue. The situation will get worse.
After the game, they'll say, ``The camp ruined the game.'' This is the reality.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666560#Comment_3666560
60% escape rate in solo q would literally be one of the best players in the world. Meanwhile it's normal for average killer players with meta perks to have a 75% kill rate.
The Survivor reference is spot on. Regarding the kill rate, I believe that mistakes on the part of the survivors are largely responsible.
Most survivors lack knowledge. Many of the reasons are here. Because it discounts a lot more to learn than being chased by a killer. The number of defeats, especially against Freddy, clearly shows this. Anyone who understands game balance can understand that.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666517#Comment_3666517
We literally just got stats that show that high-mmr 4-man SWF's escape 48% of the time
This is proof that advanced survivors do not find tunneling painful.
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@ChaosWam said:
My only big gripe is fellow survivors. There needs to be better explanations of game mechanics/powers/etc readily available to help cut down on survivors making bad plays. Even if it's a tad.
That's right now.
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Players who want to face a variety of killers should play the role of a variety of killers. For those who don't generalize it, don't blame them for not having various killers. Self-help is important.
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Even in such an environment, advanced survivors boast a 60% escape rate.
For those who don't, it might be a good idea to take a moment to think about why they are different.
By the way, these survivors all agree that tunnels and camps are tactics, and while it's true that they may not be fun for survivors sometimes, but counterattacks are possible.
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It will continue unless the survivors learn how to force the killer into not wanting to tunnel or camp. And crouching in the grass from the beginning just encourages the killer to do whatever he wants, and they are completely unaware that they are giving up the advantage to the killer. This is the current standard survivors skill.
In other words, the fact that the middle layer of Survivor players is filled with beginners is the main reason why the killer tunnel cannot be stopped. And no one is aware of this and no one learns. This is because they believe that it is more beneficial to allocate time to requesting improvements to development than to learning.
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SWF will work together to prevent the fourth onhooked. 3gen systems will have more negative effects.
The idea itself isn't bad, but it's too weak.
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When it comes to Nurse and Bright, commonly referred to as a strong killer, the game is on their side. Other than that, the Survivor side is basically advantageous, and the Survivor side is especially overwhelming against those called M1 killers. However, as this forum symbolizes, most of the survivors are beginners, and there seems to be a lot of matchmaking to the point where game balance doesn't work because MMR cannot be expected to be normal.
I always wish there was a collection of video links that would allow even beginners to quickly accumulate some knowledge.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665962#Comment_3665962
60% kill rate isn't the same as 60% win rate. 2/5 outcomes are a lost. 1/5 outcomes is a tie. And 2/5 outcomes is a win.
If you want a 50% win rate then you need a higher kill rate to offset the fact that only 40% of outcomes are a win.
This means that although it is rare for 4 Survivors to survive in a single match, it is more common for 3 Survivors to survive, but that is how most Survivors win.
It may seem unfair at first glance, but if the kill rate were not this high, there would be 4 survivors left until the 5 gen was completed, which is an overwhelming disadvantage for the killer.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665529#Comment_3665529
For real, when I had a tough survivor challenge, I would sometimes change my username to something like "plsLemmyStun5T_T" and eventually some killer would take pity on me.
For a while I ran "DH is so cringe" and tried to influence other survivors to play something else and prove that you could do well without it. But eh, my results were suppar and I would be surprised if I even got a single survivor main to reconsider using that busted perk. Lolol. Later I would start the anti DH alliance and was the sole member of it, and even later change DH to MFT.
Changing names often and in response go the change of seasons is fun.
At one point, my name was meaning ``More Gen conpleting, everyone.'' yes.
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Although relatively fair, it is also the map most affected by whether or not the survivor is swf.
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It is suspected that this map variation exists to slightly increase the odds of getting the killer to reach the worst map.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665941#Comment_3665941
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665954#Comment_3665954
Yeah I'd like to test out the effect on matchmaking quality without having lobbies at all. It gets rid of so many issues like Prestige dodging, sifting through profiles, last second surv swapping, etc. so their system would finally have a decent shot at working most of the time. That benefit alone outweighs several boxes or flashys in one lobby imo.
Then they can show whatever they like post game, even who was in a SWF group.
+1
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It's fun to role-play encouraging your bots and holding hands with them. If that's more fun, I go to rescue the bot. It's just often not the case.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665280#Comment_3665280
In order to stop the tunneling, keeping survivors alive and spreading the hooks needs to be more valuable and worth the killers time.
Right now, a killer who mercifully keeps a survivor alive and doesn't seal the deal when he could, at say 4 gens left (but behind the scenes, of course 2 are at 80+), us shooting himself in the foot, as that survivor on deathhook can just as efficiently hold M1 at a gen in the last phase of the game.
Something like old BBQs BP bonus mechanic as basekit could help a little bit, but only symptomatic, like give killers this bonus but only increase the multiplier as long as all survivors are alive. This should lead a lot of killers to at least postpone the first kill till they have 3 different survivors hooked.
But the problem remains: 4 alive survivor's are a problem for a killed, you can't defend 3 gens against 4 alive survivors, but tunneling early is seen as despicable; and of course I don't like it myself in my survivor games.
Some sort of debuff could be set up for keeping survivors on death hook alive, while strengthening survivors repair speed for every dead teammate, but all this need to take into account hook stages vs gen progress.
Also, just do a hardcap with certain perks, like only two regression perks, and how big the bonus to repair speed can stack etc. There are too many moving parts in 2024 to have everything work with everything else without a hitch. Remember how Awakened Awareness had to be held back because its OP on Nurse, so eben Trapper can't use it properly.
The optimal solution is to abandon the original concept of a system in which "the killer quickly kills the survivors and gains an advantage'' and replace it with a system in which "the killer gains an advantage by keeping all the survivors alive". However, this is the exact opposite of the pride of a killer who hangs survivors on a hook and attempts to kill them.
In other words, it might be better for Killer to just be a mascot character for an attraction, entertain the survivors, and let them go home. Tunnel, camp, 3 gens. Even if everything is resolved, they complain anyway.
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@Lost_Boy said:
I mean if you focused on protecting 3 gen specifically from start of match I'm assuming you ended up in a 4v1 situation with only 1 gen remaining.
It sounds like it's more of a survivor skill issue than 3 gen being too strong. You shouldn't be losing as a survivor team in that scenario. 3v1 yes but not 4v1.
They literally just need to chip away at each gen and try to bait you into a chase every time you come over. If you commit you most likely lose a gen. If you don't commit ultimately it will stalemate until the survivor team eventually wins because you can't be in 3 spots at the same time or the gens will get blocked.
Out of 15 games I don't believe this 4v1 3 gen tactic would be netting you like a 90% win rate unless you're playing extremely weak survivor teams.
Really this. The HUD shows who is planning on completing which generator, and all survivors have to do is offer to take charge of the other side, and the killer are thrown into the generator seesaw game.
The problem is that certain survivors' incompetent chases can consume the pallets near the generator, or they can take extra hits from killers due to lack of pre-positioning. Survivors who receive easy hits do not have skill to ride this seesaw.
......Maybe it's not a skill, but a thinking ability.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666020#Comment_3666020
I probably shouldn't have responded to that person honestly but it's just getting really frustrating for me all my friends have quit playing so I main killer and I feel like it's too easy these days and I'm not saying that I don't run into a squad and have a bad game, but most my games are easily won now all the really strong loops I used to have to play around are gone on most maps , these people are literally running in dead zones majority of the time its just not fun it feels like I'm getting it for free, if they make it any easier I'm just gonna hang it up people are acting like it's still hard with all the regression and extended gen time, their heads would've exploded in the old days , sorry for the long reply back but I just miss being super invested in a hard chase and finally catching them because of something I did skillfully, not because BHVR nerfed things to the point I'm almost guaranteed to win that chase if I run it a certain way
In my area, the percentage of killer players who quit because the game was too hard is significantly higher than 1/4 of the survivors. If you include players who simply got bored and quit, there would probably be more survivors.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I think it is fair that Killers adjust their build to what Items are brought. Where it was not really good was when they could still switch in the Lobby, so seeing Medkits and switching to Plague was kinda...eh.
However, the Lobby is simply outdated at this point. Killers dont use this information to prepare, they use this information to dodge the Lobby, they are cherrypicking. Which also screws with Matchmaking and results in weaker/stronger Killer players ending up in Lobbies they simple dont belong in.
IMO it would be fine to remove the Lobby completely. It really does not fit the purpose it was intended to fit, let alone that it is a relic from the time the Killer was the host. Or they keep it (removing names and profiles of course, those are not gameplay-relevant anyway) and give the Killer access to which Items Survivors bring to prepare, but put a penalty on Dodging.
The only reason I leave a lobby is mainly when there are anonymous survivors and if I see a ban history on my Steam profile. And most killers are.
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The TV lights up a few dozen seconds after the start, so pull out the video.
Be sure to turn off the TV before completing gen. (curse +1)
When going to rescue an survivor onhooked, turn off the TV beforehand to prepare an escape route. (curse +?)
If the number of curses reaches 3 or more, please return the video for safety.
Sadako is not a threat to the survivors as long as all survivors do this without slacking off.
If you want, I'll put a link to a hot video to prove it.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666014#Comment_3666014
1.) I don’t think gen regression perks should be removed from the game.
2.) Your argument fails because survivors aren’t escaping as often as killers are sacrificing them now. There is *currently* an imbalance with gen regression perks present, but return to point 1.
3.) We needn’t rely on hypotheticals here because we have real data that shows an imbalance to exist under current circumstances, which is where we should have our attention not a hypothetical, far flung future that may never come to exist; return to point 2.
The main reason generators don't complete is that Survivors are missing out on a huge chance to do it. If that's not the case, it's usually because the killer is significantly better at gameplay than the survivor, or is just some strong killer, or is just an accident.
The discussion will probably go on parallel lines, so I'll just say that I regret that I wish more survivors would be enthusiastic about generators.
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Many advanced killer players probably won't agree with this idea. In the chase, he is only an M1 killer, and his ability to force tasks onto survivors is poor.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665879#Comment_3665879
Did you intend this response for me? It seems unrelated to my comment.
If all gens regression is to be abolished, the balance will not be achieved unless it takes that much time to complete the generator. I replaced it with a survivor's perspective.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665966#Comment_3665966
I usually ignore you, but this just shows that your take is not really valid.
The Survivor TEAM should have the same strength as the Killer. So the 4vs1 should be a 50/50. Not the 1vs1.
In other words, is it correct to understand that you do not follow the developer's opinion that ``this game is a killer vs survivor x4'' opinion?
For me, it's easier to have a conversation that way, and I welcome it. Of course, since it's a team, we should talk about game balance with the assumption that survivors can cooperate rather than be selfish.
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For example, Sadako was the most disliked character, and even today, many survivors still have the illusion that she is a strong killer because her abilities are not understood.
What is needed is practical counter knowledge, and it needs to be passed on in a way that even relatively casual players can understand. However, reflecting the opinions on this forum, it seems that no beginners are trying to acquire such knowledge, and even if they are given it, they are just throwing it away. Will everyone continue to complain to the management in unison until Billy Nerf is realized, without anyone understanding the trivia about anti Billy?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Anti-facecamp turned to be the most useless thing ever. Strong campers are still strong as before. Weaker campers are now even weaker. So i really don't know AFC fixed what? Because there is still no counter for camping against Bubba, Billy, Trickster, Huntress lol.
Anti-3 gen also ended with killer buff. Pop, PR was not enough to regres gens and now every kick removes 5% as well. Sure they fixed hostage issue but this does not change the fact it ended with killer buff. Every kick 5% is huge. Also gen tapping gone is really so huge.
And both mechanics supposed to be QoL for survivors but somehow killers got better buffs.
At least for the Huntresses, just two survivors come to rescue and can do it in time. The problem is a lack of theory. Even if it is soloQ, it is fully practicable and there is no problem.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665972#Comment_3665972
I'm not sure. I only play killer when I play in customs with friends on rare occasions. My guess is purely based on some killer streams that I've watched.
I remember it only lined up nicely if all 5 people gave an offering. I hope someone can provide me with accurate information.
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All survivors simply enter the locker after confirming that the main event has started.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665931#Comment_3665931
Assuming I remember correctly, the offerings are listed in a line. That line correlates to the order that survivors are listed on the side of the screen. So you can figure out who brought what by comparing the two.
Isn't that limited to cases in which all participants brought their own offering?
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The basement is a danger zone only if you come into contact with the killer. All you have to do is avoid such situations and stop by, so in reality there are many times when it is not dangerous.
Even more serious is that going to the basement will waste time, which will delay the completion gen.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665345#Comment_3665345
Agreed. I haven’t played league or even seen gameplay outside a couple clips but their punishments sound overly harsh and almost outright unfair. I don’t think these type of punishments would go over well at all with the community this games built.
Like 2 weeks for a disconnect that could potentially be something out of their control?
You got to remember that sometimes life just gets in the way. Imagine getting suspended from a game for 2 weeks because your baby was crying and needed attention or any other of lives various issues that can pop up at a moments notice. Just last night I DCd from a game because my girlfriend came home crying and she deserves my attention and time way more than the 4 other people playing a video game did. DbD should not and never has been taken that seriously.
Sometimes people are just having a rough time too. People play video games as a form of escapism, they want to enjoy said escapism. If you had a bad day and wanted it to get a little better by playing some video games, it’s not exactly enjoyable to get someone who can clearly be out to give you a bad time.
Even if it means interfering with other players' escapism? Regardless of the degree of punishment, it is absurd to say that there are no penalties that should be meted out.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665245#Comment_3665245
Shoot, they’re barely escaping now. Not even cracking 50% by the stats. I can’t imagine more survivors escaping if the gens took longer.
If reversed situation, survivors were always going to die in one hook, then the average chase time would need to be at least 2 minutes. Most reasons why a gen doesn't complete is because survivors want to slack off on it. I understand the opinion that you can't control your teammates, but that's the reason.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665385#Comment_3665385
They run the killer for as long as they can, when the killer is explicitly targeting them when they're injured, out of position, and very likely to be in a deadzone?
The whole point of choosing to tunnel a survivor is that they're starting that chase on an extreme back foot. All the killer has to do is start the chase, but the survivor has to both get lucky enough to have a resource near enough to get to before their BT runs out and then play substantially better than their opponent to make up for the fact that the chase is heavily stacked against them.
I absolutely agree that countering tunnelling should be on the survivors to play well. It is then therefore unavoidably a requirement for them playing well to actually reliably counter the tactic, which it currently does not. They have to play far better than their opponent to overcome the fact that they're being targeted when they haven't had a chance to make smart decisions. Playing well isn't just about how well you can loop, and expecting survivors to be on Team Eternal's level just to counter a cheese tactic from the killer is not balanced.
For example: If the basekit BT wasn't Endurance but just blocked a hit (like Mettle Of Man), they could then chain their anti-tunnel into it, as well as using other forms of Endurance like Dead Hard. Then they'd be able to smartly chain tiles together because they actually had the equivalent of starting a normal chase with the killer, and how much time they waste is up to them. This would help them while being tunnelled, but not otherwise, because anti-tunnel disables on Conspicuous Actions.
As it stands, though, trying to use something like OTR gets you hit straight away, trying to use DS just gets you downed again very quickly in most scenarios, and that's it when it comes to personal anti-tunnel. Even if you wanted to stack a full build of anti-tunnel perks, you can't, there's only two you can bring yourself and they aren't actually very good + have anti-synergy with the basekit mechanic. Even when branching out into other tools that could help in that scenario, the question arises: is it fair for you to have to run all of these perks to counter something the killer needs no perks and no effort to do? The answer is no, I'm not leaving it open-ended. That's not a fair outcome, you shouldn't be given a loss just because you wanted variety in your perk builds.
Tunnelling has already been lessened, as a problem. It's impossible now for the killer to hit you as soon as your feet touch the ground, and that was a great start. It's still not balanced, though, and nine times out of ten imbalances should be fixed.
If a survivor steps into the dead zone even though they are injured, isn't that an act equivalent to suicide by suicide? Hooked Survivors can look around and see where other Survivors are and where they are on the map. In the first place, being tunneled means that other survivors are not wasting pallets, which can greatly extend the chase time with the killer.
Each one may seem useless, but by stacking them together Survivors can significantly counter the tunnel, but no one wants to do it.