twistedmonkey
twistedmonkey
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@Squoose said:
I spent £600 on a golden feng code, which was a big decision but I was okay with it and that it was my responsibility. However, I did pay £600 for this exclusive, and many people have spent money on these because of their exclusive ranking in the game. This feels like a kick to the face and thrusts a large chunk of their core consumers and loyal fanbase to the side. I have never had an issue with bhvr, through bug and unwarranted deaths during gameplay. I love this game, but this decision on their end is absolutely devastating and no compensation for such a drastic decision would be a final blow. They haven't done it yet, they can still make it right. Anyone who is okay with this has their reasoning or are just super happy about getting a FREE exclusive cosmetic which I would also be. But if the devs have wanted to do this, then they shouldn't have waited until after three years have passed, plentiful time for many members to lose money, it's just completely immoral.
If you bought it from a 3rd party provider then it was never promoted infact it was advised not too like most game devs who have skins in the game.
Spending that amount of money on it was a choice for and not something one should ever blame someone else for making. It's a good teachable moment.
Most of the skins in reality were dependant on where someone lived, luck in a giveaway and what platform they were on.
While I have 90% of them I personally don't care about them being given out as it's just a change of appearance and in no way impacts the gameplay.
I applaud how they want to treat everyone the same way and make it fair. It says a lot when a company could have easily sold them in the store and made money yet decides to give them away.
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360's rarely ever work agaisnt good killers.
Don't do a lunge hit if they are so close and just tap the mouse/controller button you will find it hits 99% of the time.
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I don't have an issue at all with the decision if it makes it more fair for all. It's just a skin afterall.
My only concern is the current and past ones earned with the serum as they wont be due to being on the store.
Future customers won't be granted the current ones for free due to the store so it still creates a divide between old and future customers.
I think if the reasoning is to make it fair for all then the earnable game event skins/serum past and future should be either available free after a time frame or put them on the store so it's always a level playing field no matter when you bought the game.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/835130#Comment_835130
Nope. Recent events are a little different. Since the cosmetics are available in the store, you can always get them even if you missed the event. Getting the Serum just gets you them for free. This way you can earn it for free if you're there, but if you miss a cosmetic that you really want for your favourite character, you're not completely out of luck.
Simplest version; we're doing a clean slate. Starting now, we're going to try to make sure that stuff is accessible for everyone equally.
While the store option is nice and optional it's not really the same when looking at the two scenario's.
The line is a bit blurry between the two. As right now it's here are some past skins for free you couldn't earn for all you amazing players but in the future its here are some nice skins you couldn't earn but only if you pay.
The current way of thinking seperates past and new customers from being treated the same way so I personally think chosing to either put them all on the store or give them all for free would be the better option as it means everyone new or old players are always treated in the same way which seems to be part of the reasoning for doing this ?. Just my thoughts on it and only for those skins earnable in game events.
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I think it's a great idea to unlock all exclusives which are unobtainable with codes to stop those scammers.
Now onto past event ones. I can understand its for those who didn't own the game or have access to it at the time. My question is about the serum from events. Will the serum amounts you can earn will be given to all players will after a time?
Unlocking event skins due to those who couldn't play or earn them is the same as not being able to earn the past serum. New players will always be coming into the game and each event they missed out on means 6 cosmetic pieces they can never earn .
It may be opening a can or worms 😉
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It is and always will be a good perk but it's now overshadowed by others options and unless you pair it with botany it's not really worth it due to the heal speed. That alone wastes two perk slots making it again not worth it over other options. I'd say use it if you have none of other options too use.
Inner strength is a better perk for those that know totem spawns. It's also good for those that don't know the spawns but less efficient as you can spend more time looking but in turn that also helps learn them.
Medkits are so fast now with the right add-ons and paired with bottany it's a no brainer and allows the use of other perks.
Bond is also better as you get info even when not injured which is amazing. Paired with iron will it's even better imo as being quiet when injured really confuses a lot of killers.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830910#Comment_830910
Ardetha has done all 5 gens in a single trial before. . It's on youtube
Yep doing 5 gens is possible, I've never done it but I have managed 4 once or twice.
I do think these challenges need to be based more on whats probable though and not just possible ?.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/832725#Comment_832725
I think you have an overly optimistic view of the world, sir.
I think that's a case of sarcasm not translating well on a forum ?.
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I agree when a challenge can be done in a single match like this I don't like how it can put others at a disadvantage. While some like myself will play normally and earn then as I go other a will no doubt rush through it.
Maybe there should be a cap with challenges like this on how many per match you earn which in this case could be 3. I don't see an issue with a challenge taking 5 games to do.
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Some clarification would be nice.
Does it need you to be on the gen when it pops regardless of time spent on it? That means you are better to not start a gen and run around and finding others being worked on.
Does it mean if you worked on a gen for 5 seconds and someone else pops it you get credit? If so just run around and do 5 seconds of each gen on the map and hope 3 get done.
Either way 3 gens on a lvl 2 challenge is a bit much. Id prefer to see challenges such as this be done in a way that the total time spent is counted over all gens you work on and at a max of 2 since that's much more realistic in a match.
Challenges should be personal and not dependent on other players imo as it just makes challenges more swf than solo orientated and they should be done via a normal playstyle.
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When people talk about no one caring its not about its value to some but why should anyone care what rank you are?
Rank in this game doesn't really show any indication of skill as it's more about how much time someone played. Some do rank up quickly which shows they are good players but almost anyone can get there if they play enough within the month.
The rank system has no rewards infact it can feel more rewarding to not rank up in a game that relies on grinding.
There are competative and casual players. The higher the rank the more competative it becomes so casuals don't really belong there and since it actually harder most of the time not to rank up it causes the problem of "potato players" in red ranks.
Those are just some examples and why rank is stated by some to not mean anything as it's not an actual rank system like other games which use an mmr and match people based on skill it is more like a monthly goal to give the players a sense of progression as they play.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830588#Comment_830588
It is a bad system where killers who pip are then called out for "Overperforming."
So your saying Legion is over performing?
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People wanted harder ranking and that's in part what the emblems are designed to do.
They made ranking harder for both sides but unfortunately survivors were rare in the red ranks so they made it easier again where you can pip when you die so people could actually play.
The 2/2 is an average balance tool but not the only one they use.
If you want to get to rank one with the 2/2 average are you asking for it to be made easier? It could in turn mean survivors will have to be tweaked again for the match making to work.
The emblems imo are more the issue with a pip for good players as doing too well and 3 or 4king quickly can mean a black pip at best. Those cases need looked at.
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829810#Comment_829810
Entirely fair in general. And you’re right, it took some time to pick her up but it didn’t take too long to get pretty effective. I still have a video of an end game chat log with someone accusing me of modding my # of play hours since there’s no way I was that good at Nurse with only 100 hours under my belt.
for me, the two parts that make her unfun to play are: the double wait system and the fact that issue has led to people saying she’s add on dependent now. I’m a broken record on that second one and I’ve said this opinion on a lot of Nurse threads, but for me part of the draw was not wanting add ons for her. The more a killer relies on their add ons to be relevant, the less interested I am in them (I currently have no plans to play Clown ever again). Nurse was the least reliant and I don’t think making her more add on reliant was a healthy change.
As for the double waiting...Nurse’s power is a very strong blink at the cost of fatiguing every time she uses it. This negative alone turns some people off from playing her, and I’ve watched new players decide that the fatigue makes the blink not worth it and try to M1 her. Now, post rework, you will have either a 1 second long wait after a 2 second fatigue or a .5 second wait after a 2.5 second fatigue on base nurse to blink again. That alone isn’t bad. The issue comes in where blinking twice means you need to wait 3.5 seconds after a double blink to get that blink back. And if you just so happen to wait 3.49 seconds before blinking you have now wasted 2.99 seconds of your time because the bar freezes and progress towards a charge is lost. I think that change is absolutely horrible. It makes her a one blink Nurse for 90% of the game because you can’t afford that wait time if the second blink reveals a survivor while scouting, and if you EITHER get your first hit on a survivor after a second blink OR miss a hit after a second blink, congrats, you’re a 1 blink killer for the rest of the chase.
Old Nurse already had to keep in mind blink charge duration, chain window duration, lunge distance, and fatigue in mind while playing. Now she has to keep in mind charges too, and only use the second blink to get a guaranteed down, because otherwise you’ve realistically burned it for the rest of that chase.
It is a sort of catch 22 as they initially looked at making the fatigue longer but it already causes some to feel nauseous and it meant looking at the ground for longer so not seeing where survivors went in a lot of cases.
I completely understand where you are coming from and your detailed explanation on how you feel is great feedback for the devs. This is the sort of feedback I feel they read and listen too as it's highly constructive.
I would like to see some changes to the cool down. Maybe it should only come into play after an Initial hit and lasts for a duration or time rather than being permanent. I feel this may help stop chases from being over prolonged and allow her to have the same map pressure as before while hunting. It should give the counter play the devs want and promote want to lose the Nurse as she is a killer you don't want to try and run around.
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829584#Comment_829584
“More fun to play and verse”
There’s been a lot of talk on the forums lately about how subjective fun is and how you can’t balance around fun. However, since you mentioned it...
Two games of mine last night: Trapper on Lery’s against a confirmed 4 man SWF, and Nurse on Game against randoms. Both ended in a 4k for me. Both had altruism lemming survivors. Off of that knowledge, you would likely expect that I had more fun as Nurse since she got a favorable map and no comms, while Trapper got a terrible map and full comms.
You’d be Dead wrong. My Trapper game I only got one trap off but my knowledge of the map led to it being a solid sweep and i never felt useless.
Nurse on the other hand felt punishing and straight up unfun. I was pushed to my limits, forced to watch helplessly several times as a miscalculated double blink ended in a guaranteed end to the chase. Having to ignore survivors healing directly above me since I couldn’t angle the blink right for the game to accept it and wasting a ton of time recovering. I remember halfway through not moving at all after a double blink until the power came back thinking how awful this was. I wouldn’t have played her if I hadn’t had a daily and I certainly won’t be otherwise, and she used to be my go to for a fun game.
That is completely true fun is subjective and why one person's feelings of it never represents the whole playerbase.
What you are saying is Nurse change has ruined your fun of playing her. That is where good constructive feedback comes in to play as to why but most posts consists of just saying she is bad as she can't do as well which is kind of the point to the change.
A lot of what you stated seems more down to not being used to the change along with the bugs of not being able to blink in the right direction (I watched someone blink backwards into the basement when looking forward which needs seriously fixed).
The Nurse id bet took a while for you to learn to get to that place where you felt powerful with her. It's why there have been many posts in the past stating frustrations as many people didn't enjoy learning her when it felt like the survivors could counter her easily. It's Kinda the same scenario as a change like this has a lot of relearning from blink distance to making the most of using them in the right places. She has changed but it doesn't mean she is bad now it just means she is different and people do fear change over most other things and why every change made which affects something is met with the same for the first month or so.
Time will tell and I while I argued her base kit didnt need changed I am not privy to what information the devs had or why they felt it did. It's not on me to speculate and say it was wrong but to adapt and give feedback on what I feel could do with being changed but that's just my opinion.
Feeling pushed to the limit I don't see as a bad thing for any killers and I would say many feel this way. This is a game of player versus player after all and that means some players will be harder to play against.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829547#Comment_829547
If you believe the stats at face-value then you can deduce that Hillbilly and Legion are on a par. They are not. One needs a buff and the other doesn't.
Of course you can't as one has a far superior kit and why Legion will be looked at again. My point was changes arent just done just due to them over or underperforming it's what makes them more fun to play and verse.
@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829547#Comment_829547
I really dislike that # Of kills is the metric for killers doing well, as that really doesn’t shell explain HOW. Leatherface eats survivors who are overly altruistic for breakfast, and generally survivors are going to be altruistic if they think there’s a chance. I had a Legion game last night where an injured person bodyblocking me as I walked into the basement with a survivor let me snowball into a quick 4k 5 gen scenario since the 3rd person sandbagged the 4th. Does that game make Legion over-performing? I barely safety pipped that game. A 4 hook total 4K is a totally different story than an 8 hook 0K. I’d argue the first scenario is altruism lemmings getting punished while the second was a super close game and lends itself as a point in that killer’s favor for being fairly balanced.
”All killers average 2ks” is by itself really not a good metric to judge balance by.
As I stated above it's one metric and one that has to be considered but not the only reason.
The fact that a survivor is overly altruistic is one aspect that does need to come into play as that playstyle is one which is promoted. Much like many other scenarios each one has to be taken into consideration and why also the do gens and get out asap scenario isn't what they use which many seem to think should be the only balance factor.
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@Drazen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829517#Comment_829517
clown trapper wraith killers like these needs some qol changes do they really need 3-4 years?
Wraith is in a decent place with the changes last year.
Trapper has had a few buffs in that time with setting animation and setting time along with add-on changes to name a few. His time to setup accross the map and can lose his power with sabo is more the issue.
I don't understand why you complain about underperformers while quoting a post from Peanits that stated no killers are getting below two kills on average so technically not underperforming.
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The work and money they make from chapters would help pay for the option of cross platform progression.
They could lose more money in the long run implementing this from those who play on other platforms as it becomes a one time purchase so I think its logical to keep the chapters as they are.
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No mither was not designed to be a perk everyone should use. It's meant to be a hard challenge perk for those who think they have the skill to use it for an extra layer of difficulty.
What you don't want is player using it without being able to play well simply for the extra bloodpoints as it puts all the others in the match at a disadvantage.
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@Penny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829416#Comment_829416
yea we can have it, I remember the devs said Jason is welcomed to the game but they didnt had it at that point, but time passes.
They already gave the answer though and nothing has changed since it was given.
They legally can't get Jason right now but if that changes then if course they would like too.
I don't see why you would want them to repeat the same response over and over. Once the lawsuit is settled then the question becomes relevant again.
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Morf
Hybrid Panda
Tru3
ScottJund
Bahroo
BoxGhosts
To name a few.
I like those who engage with their community.
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There is no straight forward answer.
If both players are of equal skill a 1v1 should be in the favour of the killer. If it's not equal the 1v1 should then be more in favour of the better player.
That doesn't mean a better survivor shouldn't go down it just means they should have the means to make it more difficult for the killer much like a killer who is better skilled than a survivor should down the players quickly. It's all about the length of time you can prolong or shorten the outcome.
The issue we have with that is someone simply being better can be punished by say camping. A killer that is better can be punished by certain perks for doing too well so its a hard one to balance as each side has the tools to punish better plays.
When it comes to the 1v4 survivors if working perfectly and coordinated then they will be stronger. As a 4v1 the game is harder for the 1 in that scenario and then becomes easier as players get sacrificed.
The game has to factor in so much more than a simple 1v1 or 4v1 scenario as they have to find the balance between solo and swf teams. While dbd is a coop game it's not a team game in reality. A solo player saving or helping another is really doing it for personal gain as whether that person escapes at the end or not it doesn't affect the outcome if they do. It's just the more that are alive increases the chances they escape or don't get hooked.
Yes there are part of the game where skill doesn't mean as much as it should but for the most part the better player will win. I think a lot of it comes down to some on both sides thinking they are better than they actually are.
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If you can do all the challenges it should take around 70-80 hours of actual play time.
Once you factor in the time within the game though of matchmaking, loading, spending bloodpoints etc that could add another 30-50h as its dependent on what side you play, rank and region for queue times.
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It's not quite as easy and a legal mess atm.
The ruling split it all as while Miller created the original character of Jason in the first movie by name it was Cunningham who created the actual Jason persona of him being the iconic looking killer so it ended up splitting the movies and worldwide territories for the rights.
Quite frankly it's a mess which doesn't look like being sorted anytime soon and not something I think anyone would think is a good idea to think about being mixed up in.
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People dc versus all killers.
Just recently I've had them happen when playing Trapper, Hag, Huntress and Doc.
Some who loses a chase too quickly dc, some who hear a specific killer dc, some dc when it's a map they dislike. Some dc when they are being slugged, if the killer wants to farm or certain perks/add-ons being used.
The set pattern for most dc's I've seen when people are losing chases too quickly no matter the killer. There are those of course who just dc versus certain add-on's and killers which could still be true for my first point but also what they find boring to verse.
I don't understand anyone playing a game where they can't accept it for what it is.
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If this happened then all totems seen would immediately just get destroyed. No point waiting for it to show up when it can be taken out which in turn makes it a nerf to the likes of NOED at the same time.
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It could be swf as they are matched off the highest ranking player which would be close to your own.
This was done to stop people smurfing and using a low ranked survivor to bully newer killers.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827400#Comment_827400
LMAO. I never said anything of the sort. I was pointing out how you basically said that if all Legion mains don't agree they are horrible then the opinion of anyone who says they are are jaded and thus their opinion can be, justifiably, ignored.
Also, I never said anything about my opinion of Legion. I have just stated the fact that they are poorly designed. You can not argue this point. BHVR themselves have more or less stated that Lgion is poorly designed and (nearly) impossible to balance. Their power and the way everything works is poor design. It is either broken or on the verge of being broken, one way or the other.
"Why do you need Data to prove that Legion is "horrible" for all Legion players after the changes"
The above is what you stated. You implied no data is need to say that ALL Legion players think that the changes are horrible which is an assumption.
I never stated someone who disagrees is jaded that was directed towards the person I was replying too as they assumed everyone thinks that Legion is horrible. That itself is a jaded viewpoint as there is no way to categorically say it is the case so it's an assumption as it's what they want to beleive.
I also think Legion was a mistake and one which shows the devs shouldn't always give the community what they ask for. It was afterall one of the most asked for killers who could vault pallets or windows and the problem of such a power is clear to see. That we can agree on.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827666#Comment_827666
I don't understand what you mean by "One list isnt objective as I said as its only only looking at one aspect."
All of the items of the list are a downside to their power AND they are not meant to all be fixed, that would make something that i would feel bad to play AS because it owuld be nothing but broken.
The thing is the difference between the upsides and downsides. They should REALLY close the gap between both of them. Maybe be left with 6 or 7 out of all of these idk, it depends on the choice that the devs make to change.
TL;DR: They need to close the gap between the downsides and upsides of their power more than any other killer.
I was saying making it truly objective about Legion having the most downsides of any killer would be to pit them against every others killers list ?.
I agree they do need some of those downsides changed. I dont have a clue myself how to though but i hope they get some love soon.
I honestly thought Legion was going to be a killer who could change who they were in game originally I loved the idea of a possible power for each char you changed too. Probably could have been a bit too much but it would have been fun.
Anyhoo it is quite off topic you are right but it's been really fun chatting. It's nice to agree and disagree with a civilised conversation. Have a nice rest of your day and gl in the fog.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827628#Comment_827628
M1 killers have some of the problems stated above but all of them have something that helps them a little in chase, EVEN if the survivor is injured which is the most important part. Also, this means that legion has no uniqueness. He is an m1 killer and nothing more than that.
Some places that aren't loopable can turn loopable when you are using feral frenzy because of how slow your power is walking and vaulting (you can't break pallets in feral frenzy) and you can miss hits and then have a chance to lose the survivor plus the amount of distance that you lose because of fatigue or hitboxes happen, or autoaim happens, or lag happens or you get stunned.
It's the opposite of what people think, he can't do anything to down survivors and injuring them is a pain with a lot of downsides if you do a single mistake that can cost you the game by using the thing that is supposed to make you win the game.
Other killers have the advantage of that first and second hit without all that much penalty.
Either way, we are getting off topic from this discussion.
But what other downsides does each of those killer have?
One list isnt objective as I said as its only only looking at one aspect. Now comparing them to all the killers each with a list with the same mindset is. Legion can be weak in the current state there is no doubt but they are not the weakest of all killers and that alone says those weaker must have more downsides in comparrisson.
@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827532#Comment_827532
I've never heard a single person say playing as or against legion could even be considered anything approaching fun.
Do you think that then reflects the opinion of the 1 million+ userbase of DBD?
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827567#Comment_827567
The thing is not about these things don't apply to other killers. The thing is that ALL of these things apply to a single killer that gives almost no reward and that is something objectively not fun.
All killers have downsides AKA counterplay but legion doesn't have counterplay, he has overkills with every move that he does related to feral frenzy.
No exhageration, I tried to test if legion was better with or without using the power and guess what... i had a better time killing survivors without the power. You might not believe me and i respect that, but this is my experience with that.
That's the thing you could make a similar list for almost all killers with downsides and some will not apply to Legion.
Some m1 killers on will have almost all the same downsides on your list and one thing Legion has that they don't is a guaranteed a hit at times to injure someone let alone the fact they can do it to multiple at once.
@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827580#Comment_827580
Yeah, that is what makes a good and fun killer. If you are just hitting people without reason and not killing them, then why DBD and not another game? That is kind of unrealistic imo but it's still a possibility, who knows these days?
But by making sense it doesn't seem an option. Just to make it clear, I respect every opinion, but this seems very strange to go play dbd to simply hit people without caring about downing them.
Legions hit with power has a purpose. You get close enough you should always injure them and sometimes more survivors while they mend it's not much but they also have to lose you and it's all time off gens.
It does then turn them into the same as most m1 killers but the difference is those killers don't have the advantage of that first hit in the first place.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827532#Comment_827532
I think that the matter of fun with legion isn't subjective and let me explain myself.
If you like a killer that has more than 15 punishments in their power for little reward, has a giant cooldown and does nothing for you in chases so you are simply a m1 killer you might as well play clown.
Clown has no gen patrol, no map pressure and no tracking when you don't have a target BUT he has chase potential and is an m1 killer. It is preferable to be a m1 killer with something in chase rather than nothing like legion.
Ofc you can like to spread hits and accomplish absolutely nothing with it but the joy of hitting someone to see the animation or something that you like. But to progress the game on your favor you have nothing. You just stall and m1 to death which can be easily countered in purple and red ranks. Which means that clown should be better.
What makes a killer unique is their power, that's the main reason why you choose one. I, personally, love more their looks than their "power" as it is now.
But if their are those that enjoy playing them so their opinion does infact differ. You simply stated what you don't find fun.
If someone wants to play Legion and finds it fun running around with them and the challenge of hitting multiple people over and over and can do well with them killing what makes their opinion less valid than yours?
That is why ones persons opinion of fun is always subjective. Not everyone likes to play all killers but that doesn't mean if some dislikes the mechanics of Hag she is not fun for many others.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827551#Comment_827551
Please give me examples.
- To get information far away.
- Very few powers do this
- Against spreaded survivors.
- Very few powers help with spread out survivors that can't be avoided.
Stun takes them out
Stun takes all killers our of their power.
Can't be sued to pressure gens
Few killers powers can do this which arent avoidable and most have to walk there also.
Is you want more look at your list and apply it to each killers powers.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827515#Comment_827515
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827514#Comment_827514
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827504#Comment_827504
I don't think that what @immortalls96 said is subjective. The list and the motives that i showed you prove the opposite. It is very objective and if there are people still thinking that legion has potential as they are right now are ignorant about the legion's purpose, gameplay and situations and risk-reward relation with their power. No offense intended when i said "ignorant"!
The list isn't as objective as you think as most of what you said on the list can apply to most of the other killers powers.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827504#Comment_827504
I would say that most of the community agrees Legion is in a bad spot.
I agree that most of the Nurse feedback has been kneejerk, however, her map pressure has been destroyed, that much is not an opinion.
I don't disagree that most of the community agree that they need something done to make them better but I disagree that most think they are unfun. Fun is afterall subjective and not everyone goes out to kill all 4 every game. I myself get the most enjoyment from engaging chases.
The change to Nurse has lowered her map pressure that's a given but is that loss of map pressure making her as bad as stated. If her map pressure is still greater than most if not all the other (bar Billy) then the main question is how has it affected her ability to kill. How much has this change reduced her lethality which is what the stats are needed for as good players didnt want her gutted just made slightly below what she was.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827044#Comment_827044
Eh, I would argue the people who think the destruction of Legion was uncalled for are right.
That's the good thing about an opinion everyone is allowed to have one and yours isn't wrong as it's personal.
All I was saying is someone stating a personal opinion as something the whole playerbase thinks is wrong as there is no way to prove that so it's an assumption brought on by ones personal thoughts that if they don't like it no one can.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827400#Comment_827400
The ceiling is so low, but so low. The power doesn't benefit you in any way whatsoever, it just injures people.
"They need to waste their time mending"
Yeah, but you need to waste your time running after them like a slug + the cooldown and 1 of the survivors doesn't mend because you will chase them and try to m1 them to death.
My point is that you can do with legion what you can do with every other killer. Their power isn't lethal so doesn't help you in chases, so unlike spirit, you have no skill measure on chases. No gen patrol, so unlike demogorgon, spirit, nurse, etc. you don't have skill measure on gen patrol. Can't travel the map with it, no tracking with it if you don't know where someone is, so unlike hag, trapper, plague if you already vomited someone at the start of the match, ghostface because of stealth, etc. you have 0 skill measure on that.
Basically, it's just muscle memory and you don't need to make hard decisions which are the main reason that you can say "i'm good at this specific killer and i love them for that". With legion now you just need to know the distance. Yes, you need that too with nurse, but you also need to know if you use the second blink, waste a charge and be at risk of having a bigger fatigue for nothing; if you should double blink travel the map faster to hit a survivor on the generator or should just walk there and save the blinks to down the survivor(s).
To legion there is nothing more to that, you press that button and have a gut feeling if you can get to that survivor to injure them. If they are already injured, well... 14 seconds for nothing and you have a chance to miss the survivor. If that survivor is healthy, you can fail the hit, get stunned or double hit the guy you have already hitted so you do absolutely nothing and get a penalty. Even if you hit that healthy survivor, they need to mend... or not because you will need to follow them after that and they don't bother to mend.
Even if you leave them, they can be in your terror radius doing a gen and not caring even a little about deep wounds because they won't go down.
This is the sad truth :/
That was always the issue with Legion as I have stated many times due to the nature of their power and why I never liked the idea of them whatsoever.
For a killer to basically be a survivor in movement but faster their power was always going to be extremely hard to balance.
It's why I would prefer them to be reworked with a Freddy style makeover as right now I can't see how they become stronger or their power gets lethality without it being unfun to verse as good players rarely miss when in frenzy and can spread the hits well.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827203#Comment_827203
It's not subjective when legion is one of their most frequently requested killer for buffs on Q&A, here, twitter, hes not doing so well these days..anyone who looks at the power for 2 seconds can see why..and no ds cannot be removed from the game..ever..noed can be removed, deliverance can be removed..but not ds..the perk is so strong that you have to act as if everyone has it even if only 1 does..and no the change did not warrant enduring getting cut down either as the stun is plenty powerful..the fact is one sides problems seem to coincidentally get their problems fixed faster and without hesitation..while the other gets to wait and feel ignored..hardly a fair concept..and one I for one am not willing to ignore because that is not fair to the ones dealing with it
Again that is just taking the users that ask these questions which is mainly from here. What number are those? Are they the same Twitter users on the forum? Without any of the data it's purely subjective.
There is also no data to see how they are performing and one of the devs stated not long ago the kill/ratio hasn't changed mich with them. I understand you don't like the change but that is soley your opinion along with a tiny amount of hours voicing it. Thete will be more of course by the same could be said for those that don't mind or like the change as those who want to complain always shout the loudest.
DS can be removed from the game. You can eat it or slug for 60s. Both ways work and it's a choice which one you choose. You are just seeing what can't be done and ignoring what can be to fit your viewpoint.
Again you are only seeing what you want to see with one sides changes and ignoring all the ones to the other.
@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827203#Comment_827203
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/97737/just-a-cool-list-about-feral-frenzy
Just watch this list i made. You can take conclusion with this.
If some legion players have a good kill ratio, is because they know how to m1 well, or the survivors they faced suck, etc.
Basically there is nothing that can make you say "I'm a good legion player" atm besides having a muscle memory of the distance of your power.
What you just stated there was unless you have good muscle memory I.E take the time to learn and be good with them you won't do well then you won't do well. Isn't that how it should be? Should players who aren't willing to learn really be good with a killer?
@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827044#Comment_827044
They listened to DS complaints about the rework and they increased the stun duration.
There were still complaints and now enduring doesnt affect DS anymore.
They do listen to feedback as I said. The Nurse feedback is being taking into consideration but these changes aren't as simple to see flaws in as one perk change as most complaints are about fun and how clunky she feels but that alone is subjective to the player.
@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827044#Comment_827044
To my knowledge, the devs never provided data to begin with that suggested base kit Nurse was a problem. If that's the case, then we have no idea what they were basing their decision on.
Also, you have no way of knowing what the total percentage of people complaining actually is. It's very hard to quantify something like that. So, you can't say the number of people complaining is a very minuscule percentage.
And finally, not all of our posts are rants. Some of us took the time to provide the devs with feedback based off our experience as avid Nurse players.
The same counter argument applies for what data there is to show she is no longer performing and that most users dont find her fun.
Yes I don't have the data and never claimed too I simply pointed out the argument some of the posters here are using cant be used as a reflection of the whole userbase's thoughts when stating she is garbage now or the players dont find her fun as thats an opinion.
Its all subjective to what we see and why I said they devs are collating data and that takes time.
I never once stated all posts are rants. There is a lot of good constructive feedback from a lot of users which is good for the devs.
@GodDamn_Angela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827203#Comment_827203
Why do you need Data to prove that Legion is "horrible" for all Legion players after the changes, otherwise anyone's concerns/complaints are just jaded opinions? Like what. If this isn't the definition of "dismissive" then I don't know what is.
Legion is poorly designed, they were on release and they still are.
So because you personally dislike them then no one can enjoy playing them?
There is a user who posted a few above yours that mains legion who states they are not horrible is thier or my opinion not worth as much as yours?
I'd argue that is what those who state all players can see they are now horrible are the ones doing dismissive and yes a jaded viewpoint as they beleive their opinion is shared by all.
Legion needs some love and is prefer a total rework personally. Always remember a killer who could vault windows and pallets was one of the most asked for by the community over the years. That is a great example of what the community believes would be good doesnt always translate well in game.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827044#Comment_827044
The difference is legion is still horrible..and not only did they put ds back in the meta strong as ever, they gutted it's only counter perk for good measure..so you see why this doesnt look to being taken equally under consideration
That's highly subjective and I would like to see the data you have that shows Legion is horrible for all the users who play them as otherwise it's just a jaded opinion to fit a narrative.
DS while still strong can be removed from the game entirely and it does it's job both as an anti tunnel perk and a time waster as slugging and chasing another means one other survivor is off gens to pick them up. It's understandable for enduring not to work with DS as making it an anti tunnel perk that did it's job against it too well.
The only issue with DS is at end game which needs looked at.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827038#Comment_827038
Which is unfun for killers to get a 1k. Least 2k is a 50/50. They need to rebalance it to put it at 2-3k honestly.
It's can also be unfun for survivors to expect to die more than the average and with a 2-3 that means the average is 2.5k per match or a 62.5% kill rate.
Ideally depending on skill level it should be between 1k and 3k as it then averages out to 2.
A 4k should be rare and so should all escaping but the reality is people get matched with those who are lacking the equivalent level of skill which tends to make both sides think the balance is worse than it is.
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Yes it's just a user stating what they think it may be like.
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No Mither is generally run by good loopers and as stated those who tie in other gen speed perks and sabo.
If a killer catches someone who can prolong the chase way too long then getting them out the game can seem logical.
They also can't slug you for the 4k if it comes to that.
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A casual mode won't change someone's mindset.
If competative players join they will still go out to do the best they can which means nothing really changes.
I could see the above happening pretty quickly as some would want to run around casual killers and some killers would want to dominate casual survivors.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827005#Comment_827005
It just shows that devs are not even taking responsibility for the killers they changed
If majority of the people (mainly survivors) don't have problem with what they did to the killers, then it's fine i guess (like legions.. no response from devs whatsoever since the changes)
The devs do listen to feedback but reactionary feedback like most of the Nurse posts is never good. It's the exact same feedback from some survivors after DS was changed which means you also think they should have listened to that.
It's never good to make post after post saying the same thing over and over as it's nothing more than a rant and not constructive.
While there are a number of people upset on here those numbers only equate to around 0.001% of the playerbase. This is why they need time to gather and review the actual data which will take more than two weeks.
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It's situational but still a very strong perk.
Some don't do as well in chases so need the extra health state. It's always better to have more alive than dead. It's also something easy to get starting off with Claudette while others need paid content or shrine luck.
It has its place but I'd personally use a medkit over it since the change as it allows the use of other perks. Medkits will allow enough heals with add-ons at a much faster rate. Pair them with botany and you can heal while in a chase between pallets.
Inner strength is a better perk for those who know the game but some maps with the totem spawns make it hard to use for those unfamiliar with the go to spawn points so the average player can spend more time running around looking for a totem than self care wastes healing.
If a player is close I'd say always use them to heal you up if they offer. The time to heal compared to gens is the same but a quicker heal on you allows you to take another hit before doing down if the killer comes close.
So if one wishes to stay healed then for a perk self care can take less time overall than taking time to find totems or another player which actually gains more gen time on average.
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If I didn't I wouldn't play it 😁.
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Maybe if it was timed and on a percentage of the gen done for an example.
Under 25% normal
25-50% 35% speed
50-75% 50% speed
75-99% 75% speed
What you don't want to do it make the 3 gen strat overly strong as then some killers may look for those close together and just wait the game out.
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In a few days. Around the 13th I believe.
For now work on ranking up the rift via playing as you will still need around 35 levels of game grind if you complete all 4 tiers of the tomb challenges to get to lvl 70.
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825306#Comment_825306
Is removing offerings, items, add-ons necessary if the other side's offerings/add-ons also gives out an advantage to their objective in much the same manner, on average, so that it ends up equating to about 2 Kill/2 Escape (again, on average)?
I don't understand the NOED and IW examples. NOED helps the killers to kill and IW helps survivors to survive. But yeah, reworking of perks are needed. Which is what the developers have been doing for years. I'm sure I missed the point you made here.
I do think that the ranking system (and matchmaking) needs to be reworked. In my opinion, it should be much more difficult to rank up (or even pip.) And when ranking presents a more normal distribution, then the matchmaking should be changed to prioritize Rank 1-4s and Rank 16-20s.
Although most fighting games don't have the all-vs-one aspect of DBD, they tend to be asymmetrical, and are often able to match similarly skilled players against each other, as well as be able to balance different characters. Why do you think that is?
For true balance yes as if one side uses more it can skew it. Without using the counter items then the match is then unbalanced due to that.
I used NOED as an example as you need to do totems to remove it so If the game was balanced around kill or just do gens then that perk would make it unbalanced so totems must then come into a balance talk. IW also as it removes a large aspect of how the killer tracks as sound in this game can be just as important than sight for balance. Basically due to perks being part of the game it will never be truly balanced unless both sides can have the same.
Then of course
They have tried to make ranking harder on both sides. It did unfortunately mean those who reached the high ranks couldn't find matches. On paper it sounds good but each time they have tried it's had to be changed as players has to derank.
Fighting games again are completely different as it's a 1v1 for the most part and they tend to have the same basic moves with low, med and strong attacks along with special moves you can pull off and while they seem different they all generally work off the same principle hit areas which you can block or move from, along with long combos which can be anticipated or broken.
The only games you can truly compare dbd to in terms of balance is another pvp asymetrical game which allows you to pick a role and has many varying factors which give one side an advantage over the other and from what I have seen most if not all have the similar balance issues.
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A lot of the killers have been changed many times over the course of the game.
Things are changed constantly and they have stated they are working on the Doctor as you said so it seems a mute point to ask if they will look at lower performing killers when you have saw with the Freddy rework and what they have stated that they are.