tubalcane
tubalcane
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477801#Comment_3477801
I am a killer main (75% killer, 20% solo survivor, 5% SWF) and I play for BP, that means getting 12 hooks per game, which can't happen if you camp.
The issue in this topic is scores, if you want a higher score, then you need to do as much as you can in a game, which means no short cuts. No camping, no early eliminations, no gen rushing.
If you want to camp and tunnel that's fine, but you're going to get a crap score and de-pip. Your choice.
But then you'll lose a few rounds and get back to your "level." Thats the way it should work. I also don't care much about pip to be honest. I want competitive fair rounds and if I have to "tunnel" to make it fair against the plethora of advantages the survivors have, that's what I'm going to do.
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@Xord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477519#Comment_3477519
Killers will have trash perks and suirvivors will keep getting more options as long as tunneling isn't adressed.
You know this won't happen that way though.
1) Survivors cry about tunneling
2) BHVR uses this non-sensical 50/50 win ratio to decide if the game is "fair" or not.
3) When it's 60/40 for killers winning the knee jerk and completely incorrect reaction is "oh, it's too hard for survivors"
4) More nonsense is added to the game to address the ratio. Now not only are there dozens of pallets, endless windows, tons of loops with no good recourse - they'll add more of these. AND they'll add the suggested anti-tunneling nonsense.
5) Now the game goes back closer to 50/50. The game gets much easier for players as killers now have to remember, which one of those injured guys did I hook last?
6) Survivors will get lazy and t-bag all over the place because it went from easy mode now with all the survivor "no penalty for mistakes" ways to escape to super easy mode where it's still all that plus now you dont remember who to chase for the tunnel penalty.
7) Survivor skill atrophies even further and many less than mediocre survivors think they are good because the game is easier.
8) Enough top killers get better, and the game is dominated by Top Killers and bad survivors who win because the game is easy.
It's not about 50/50, its about whats fair. If 6 times around a loop before the undependable Bloodlust kicks in, so is tunneling to even the score.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477807#Comment_3477807
Doing chests or totems is not reportable either so that wouldn't work, it's just solo queue being solo queue and you can't do anything about it
AGree 100% - but why punish the killers? It's not their faults, right?
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@Grimm90 said:
Enjoying the game but it is frustrating. How certain characters Can't just turn around And punch the killers in the face Or pick up A two by four crack to kill over the head Or how these large Killer's can Keep up with the 120 pound Girls Running. What's up with this one shots That down you?
Characters like ash or Resident Evil characters And a few others On this game. Maybe not at all Of the killers But especially Michael Myers, Ghostface, Pig Like these major beta characters That could easily get their asses handed to them. It would be more fun And interesting for both sides Instead of survivors having to be helpless.
Love the violence But it Shouldn't be one sided to the killers. Honestly If Survivors could fight back I'd hunt the Killers myself All day every day baby `·_·´
Ok so you have:
-Endless pallets
-A window or a loop everytime you make a mistake
- No penalities for touching a gen and w-keying (with Made for this you can get across the map now)
-Flashlights
-Sabo
-Flashbombs
-On and on and on
And you want it to be EVEN EASIER for you?
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477514#Comment_3477514
So then you should know that even if you loop the killer for that long solo queue teammates can be standing around doing nothing but tbagging each other and opening chests or doing totems right?
Well then report them - I don't know what to tell you. Don't make the game harder for the killer because some survivors are a-holes. I get beaten by soloQ plenty of times at my level. I never see faulty soloQs at the win rate I've gotten too, which is not even that high up. I do see crap soloq with beginners but I never seem to face those.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477506#Comment_3477506
You realise I already did that? I never disagreed that it was the case for survivors...
I'm a killer main btw, and I make sure to 2 hook everyone before I start eliminating because I want my maximum hooks and camping/tunnelling are boring af.
Also... half of your facetious retort is factually incorrect or nonsensical. "let the killer camp so you get more BP and avoid anti-camping mechanics" that's fundamentally not how that works, if you let the killer camp, not only will the killer be subject to every anti-camping measure that would exist, but everyone will get terrible BP scores. You're fundamentally, objectively wrong.
You guys are always "killer mains" lol
Its literally almost the opposite of everything you said. I know you think there is only one universe and that is your own, but there is another side to this that is equally BS. If you get camped, stop whining and go do gens - you dont need yet another survivor hand me down. Gens are done so fast now a camping killer will not win.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476099#Comment_3476099
You only get DS after you get hooked you only get one chance to use it within a 60 second timer and if you do a anything before using DS then you lose it until you get hooked again, and it deactivates when the exit gates are powered.
Well there is your anti-slug feature. You got a free health state perk. Now you want another?
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@Xord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477486#Comment_3477486
You're the one babycrying about the potential of the biggest problem in dbd being fixed just because you know you're so bad at the game you're unable to win by actually playing it.
The biggest problem right now is that the game is getting easier and easier for survivors. Instead of survivors practicing and getting better, BHVR uses some silly 50/50 ratio of Killer to Survivor wins to rate whether the game is "fair" or not, and there is a race to the bottom for survivors. They make the game easier for survivors, and then they actually think they're getting better. When really they're getting 5% speed bursts, faster gens, infinite loops, and like 10 hook states with all the easy mode perks. And my favorite part is they think they are getting better at the game.
Tunneling is here to stay - just use the infinite loops and other easy mode items they give you in the game and you'll be fine.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476051#Comment_3476051
Play it and stop being so theoretical. The game has exactly 0 infinite loops by default (killer can unlock exactly one). Gens take 90s which is far cry from 60s the OG game had. Pallets are constantly being removed - you would absolutely not recognize how the game looked like 7 years ago.
I will repeat myself - try playing soloQ at least for a week (sure, if you play 1-2 games as survivor - you will have low MMR and the game will be easy - but come back in a week and repeat then judge the game) and at least 2hrs a day - you will very quickly realize how big of a nonsense those "infinites" you are talking about are.
Except most survivors can infinitely loop at the shack, as well as double opposing windows, because they have a huge advantage being able to see from above instead of FPS. For that reason alone, loops should degrade after 2-3, then get worse by Bloodlust finally kicking.
There are more pallets than ever. Show me a time in the game when there were more pallets then now? There is one within stun chase distance of each pallet and the fact you can just rely on that to eat 3-4 minutes of the game is ridiculous.
Always a pallet to save you. Always a window to save you. No penalties for making bad choices. Make a bad choice? No problem - he's another window or another pallet!
I've played soloQ. I stink at survivor but I can loop a killer for a long time at the shack. Dead By Daylight: Always a Pallet When You Need One (I'm trademarking this!)
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474926#Comment_3474926
The funny thing is this applies equally to killers and is demonstrated by the no pip 4K example by Spectralfx above.
If you utilise scummy killer tactics such as camping and tunnelling, you will 4k without acquiring enough chase or hook points, and you won't pip.
Just as survivors will want to complete actions in all categories; repairs, healing, chase and surviving, killers need to complete enough actions in all of their categories as well, this involves letting survivors be rescued from hooks, so that you can score more chase points, and hook them multiple times.
If you just didn't camp, then not only would you gain more pips, but all of these anti-camping mechanics would be of no consequence to you.
Watch this - this is pretty cool:
The funny thing is this applies equally to SURVIVORS and is demonstrated by the SWF EXAMPLE ABOVE.
If you utilise scummy SURVIVOR tactics such as INFINITE LOOPING and RUNNING PALLET TO PALLET, you will 0K without acquiring enough chase or hook points, and you won't pip. THEN BHVR WILL JUST MAKE THE GAME EASIER FOR YOU WHEN THE 50/50 RATIO GOES BELOW 50 FOR SURVIVORS - YOU WILL SUDDENLY IMPROVE BUT IT WON'T BE BECAUSE YOU ARE GOOD.
Just as KILLERS will want to complete actions in all categories; HOOKING, CHASING, etc, SURVIVORS need to complete enough actions in all of their categories as well, this involves letting KILLERS LET ONE PLAYER FALL, so that you can score more GEN COMPLETION points, and FINISH GENS LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AS A SURVIVOR.
If you just LET THE KILLER camp, then not only would you gain more pips BY FINISHING GENS, but all of these anti-camping mechanics would be of no consequence to you.
PRETTY COOL HOW THAT WORKED FROM THE OTHER SIDE HUH? LOLOLOL
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@UnavailableName said:
It has always been an issue for 7 years but today it is rampant. In almost every trial the killer is tunneling right at the start, why don't you adress it ? How long will we have to wait this time ?
Tunneling should be heavily punished.
You have asked to the streamers, in the streamers tournament, to not camp and not tunnel to give a good advertisement of the game so why do you let those behavior being rampant in the game and doing nothing about it ?
There is nothing wrong with tunneling. Again, just because you don;t like it and it makes the game harder for you doesn't mean it's not allowed. Stop being a baby about it.
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@Depressedlegion said:
When a killer is near you while your down, you should get free unbreakable to stop stuff like it. It's annoying and toxic. Definitely needs adjustment, but that is the general idea.
You should only get a way to ######### quicker. Why should you get yet another free health stage? Already get too many with all those extra health stage perks like DS.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
But people seem to notice a 4% increase from blood lust and think it should go and you can feel it when playing killer, alot
But you have to build up to it, and because the system is poor at picking up that I am chasing survivor I lose lots of time I should be building toward it. MFT put 5% on all the time after an injury, which allows a survivor to get all the way across the board even without obstacles since the killer only runs a gnat's ass faster than the survivor as it is.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474859#Comment_3474859
Oh. So for 4K you did loose pip. Wait. No. You didn't. I thought we were talking about loosing pips for good performance. Not almost getting extra pip for good performance.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474926#Comment_3474926
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474932#Comment_3474932
Try to play survivor for some time - especially soloQ. I give it a week of intense playing for you to change your mind completely. SoloQ is the weakest role in the game. Even bad killers (even though they are close) are not as bad as soloQ (thanks to current matchmaking that just thinks it's good idea to give 1 brand new player into match with 3 skilled survivors and 1 skilled killer for super-easy tunnel-into-ez-win).
How do you lose? Infinite loops, pallets everywhere, 50 second gens. Anti-facecamping mechanic. Next you'll want a mechanic where when you get hooked, the killer is forced to rush all the way across the board. They just make it easier and easier for you.
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@fulltonon said:
For some reason, I've noticed gen speed increased tremendously.
Like even if I finish first chase within 5 gens, by the time I hook seconds 4 gens popped.
Were they cheating? did perk helped them THAT much? it's a mystery, but the speed was ridiculous.
I never really had pure gen speed like this, for the most part everything slowed down by a lot once game reaches 3 gen more to finish.
I never claim to be a great killer- but I have to say to go across the board, find one person and chase them to the other side, and have 2 gens done is just too fast.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459913#Comment_3459913
That was a while ago to be fair, and it wasn't really the best way of dealing with genrushing as is shown by it not really doing much to help with it.
Gens need to slow down faster - this discourages people from just w-keying away with all the speed, looping and 2 dozen pallet advantages survivors have. People can leave a gen and run all the way across the board while the killer is just trying to catch up - this doesn't even count obstacles!
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@Sharby said:
I still maintain that killer rewards should be mostly dumped into getting hits/downs/hooks instead of kills.
That way you could walk away from an 8 hook, 0kill game with tons of BP/Pips/Achievements without feeling bad. Instead of the current system where you don't get a whole lot for not killing anyone.
Fair point - it rewards tunneling, so killers are forced to tunnel.
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@CamperSluggerVillain said:
it's almost as if you're not suppost to loop a killer for 5 gens, stop abusing made for this and predroping every pallet smh
You nailed it. The game is getting ridiculously easy for survivors. At the same time they continue to make more and more negative rules for killers that make no sense, like a anti-camping mechanic when there are already a bunch of anti-camping mechanics.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469758#Comment_3469758
Please be honest, the game is only easy for survivors who play in SWF or who have many hours of gameplay, myself when I play my matches are very few that I manage to escape alive, and in most of them the killer ends up doing 4kills, sometimes I need to use "left behind "or "sole survivor " because it's hard to complete all the generators because the killers drop the survs very quickly
If you think differently, then sell me that DBD that you play where the survs are strong, because what I play is only the killers that win in most matches
but I'm sure that even if this killer perk was nerfed it wouldn't be useless, even because the function of tracking survivors would be maintained, if you don't want to understand, please excuse me, you're being inconsistent
I can agree with your first statement. I think the MMR is busted right now. Hard to go up against people with thousands of hours.
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@AmberJ97 said:
Wraith needs a nerf when he is cloaked imo. Potentially a bigger cool-down between cloaking and un-cloaking. Also, to potentially have to be un-cloaked in order to close hatch. I understand the hatch is a means to end the game, and no I do not sit at hatch and wait for the killer to come - this would just make playing wraith more enjoyable.
If you are survivor you already get 50/50 chance on the hatch. Then if you manage to miss that, you have 50/50 on most exits (unless they are close together.) So endgame for remaining survivor is ALWAYS survivor sided. Wraith is fine already loses a ton of speed coming out of cloak. HEs fine as is.
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@Emeal said:
The Killer can also just do a little error and lose the game.
YES! Survivors have pallet after window after turn after door. They make the rules in the chase - except in the case of maybe really exceptional 1% killers who just think on another level.
There needs to be more punishment for W-keying and lack of strategy. Why aren't there more places where turning the corner randomly hits you into a wall, or a crappy way out? Why don't window loops degrade over time. A killer can get stuck in a loop and the survivor has the upper hand since they can see all around them, now the killer needs to travel 40 seconds across the map to get back to the others. Thats a half a gen done because a loop can't be beat, even in the best mind games.
There need to be more penalties for survivors. They should pay hard for a bad turn or just panicking across the board instead of just running lovingly into the arms of more pallets and mazes to take the pain away.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
I had never seen problems with this perk because it was a one-time use, so the level 3 buff for 9 seconds seemed pretty fair to me, however I have come across a frequent problem, is to find high mobility killers, like Nurse for example, using this perk to take down survivors right at the beginning of the match, and against weaker survs it's not even fun to face her, since the only way to face her is to player does not have a high level is playing stealth against her.
One suggestion I would give is to reduce the perk's initial time, or aura reading range, as it now doesn't just work at the start of the match, it can amplify the time of other aura readings
I know there will be a lot of people asking why I don't use "distorcion" for example, I use it in every game I play, but the problem is that not everyone uses it, and many times the killer thinks I'm starting the game because I was close to someone who doesn't use it, and there are people who haven't even managed to buy Jeff yet
I'm not asking to disable the perk because of this, but I think it has become too strong on killers who don't need it
So you need it to be even easier for survivors? Whoa, a whopping few second increase for Lethal Pursuer. There's lots of unfun stuff for killers too while we're talking about unfun - like limitless pallets and endless loops. Start nerfing some of those, then we'll start nerfing mediocre killer perks.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469018#Comment_3469018
Tunneling is perfectly fine.
Agreed - If a survivor can run endless pallet to pallet, window to window, ability to block killers etc - then tunneling is a completely fair option for the ridiculously fast gens we have to deal with now.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
NOT TALKING ABOUT REASSURANCE. The unhooking progress will merely slow down, not stop, when another survivor is near by. Loopers are just going to run to hooks. This will force free credit for a hooked person to unhook themselves despite the killer having no intention of being near that hook. If a survivor is near a hook, the unhook timer shouldn't slow - it should entirely stop. It's a bit silly to remove killer pressure simply by a survivor heading to a hook in chase.
Yes it's an absolutely horrible idea. There already is an anti-camp feature - it's called doing gens. Gens get done so fast now you can't afford to camp. This feature is just more capitulation to the whiny survivor class.
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@NerdGaming_TTV said:
Its not making it easy its making it fair which scares butt hurt killers
No it's not fair - its become way survivor sided, and you want even more lol. So many pallets everywhere, so many windows, it's getting ridiculous. I love BHVR but whoever decided that wins should be split 50/50 is just taking the easy road out.
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@NerdGaming_TTV said:
It'd also be funny if a killer goes after a survivor that just got unhooked, they spawn over in the opposite corner of the map 😂...and the survivors that like to hide all game get kicked for inactivity (5-7 mins of no consistent gameplay/ doing gens/being chased/etc) and if a person gets kicked then the remaining survivors have 1 less gen to do
Why don't you just make it easier for you? Maybe like everytime someone drops from the game, you get like 3 free gens?
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@NerdGaming_TTV said:
Hello there, I'm sure I'm not the first to mention this but is there something you can do about the tunneling, slugging and camping? Like if 3 or more survivors are downed they get an instant pickup or unbreakable and if a killer is within proximity of the hook for a period of time the survivor gets deliverance or 100% chance of unhooking (even during stage 2) with 30 seconds of endurance...its bad enough dealing with terrible teammates. Before the butt hurt killers argue...im a killer main and I have never had to slug, camp or tunnel to win (plus you don't need to win every match). The one time I did that crap was when I had a bully squad (3-4 flashlights) which is also a problem, I don't think there should be more than 2 flashlights per match 🙄
Can you also do something about the endless pallets, endless windows, and ability to fake taking survivors off the hook? Game is already too easy for survivors and you want to make it even easier lol.
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I don't have 7 mins to watch some dopey survivor complain about how the 2 dozen pallets, 2 dozen windows, w-press easy mode, ability to body block, ability to do gens when someone is camping, can see over obstacles when the killer camp isn't enough of an advantage already. Please just summarize.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465766#Comment_3465766
lol is it worth it to take this comment seriously? someone else let me know
ill at least drop this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqD4iTR1xdI
Dead by Daylight should get a subname for how easycakes it is for survivors-
Dead by Daylight: Always a pallet when you need one
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@1ettuce said:
Solo survivors are already forced to take up a perk slot to get information anywhere near that of a swfs, so I find it ridiculous that said perks can be countered by a status effect, which then does basically nothing to swfs. Pretty much the only significant ways that blindness affects swfs is with WoO, deja vu/visionary, and aura reading on the killer only to some extent. At the end of the day, the main appeal of blindness is making already uncoordinated teams even more uncoordinated, it's not healthy. A good suggestion I've seen before is making blindness limit your range of view like dredge's nightfall and funnily enough minecraft's blindness effect does. It could have a similar exception for teammates and possibly the killer as nightfall does, as not to prevent survivors from seeing each other and disproportionately hurting solos like it does now.
So basically after the one million pallets, windows everywhere, endless maze loops, and huge w-key mashing headstarts you get, and soon to be nonsense anti-camping thing that will be exploited to all hell, you want the game to be even easier for survivors? Got it.
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@Butterrum333 said:
You know you can kill the survivors right? Permanently removing them from the game? Just do that, killer is easy
You know you can counter camping right? By just doing gens while they stand there like a dummy? Just do that, survivor is easy
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452979#Comment_3452979
It’s boring because it robs a player of their agency, requires no skill or strategy, and is an unbalanced form of gameplay. This coming from the people that complain when survivors do generators so I’m not surprised.
There is no skill to looping. You just do it until the survivor breaks chase. Maybe for new players who don't know how to loop, but then again I camped as new player and it didn't work well for me often either.
It's not unbalanced just because you don't like it. You can go do gens and the killer will lose if they keep camping.
Sorry, if near infinite loops can stay in the game, camping should too.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452979#Comment_3452979
Loops do deteriorate over time. It's called Bloodlust. And camping is boring - for both the killer and the survivor it involves not playing the game, just standing there waiting for the opportunity to try for a hook save grab or waiting to die.
Bloodlust takes FOREVER to activate. Degrading should be 2 to 3 loops at most. Watch this, this is pretty cool:
"And LOOPING is boring - for both the killer and the survivor it involves not playing the game SINCE THERE'S ALWAYS A WINDOW, PALLET, just standing there LOOPING ENDLESSLY for an opportunity for the KILLER TO JUST BREAK CHASE."
Basically I did you but from the other side. Pretty cool huh?
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Game is already so easy for survivors. Never penalties for mistakes. Take a wrong turn? There's always a window. Want to use all 20 pallets? Go for it. Now you want a way to stand up? You guys are getting ridiculous. Then you'll still lose and want something else.
Dead By Daylight: Always a pallet when you need one.
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@MeowMeow93 said:
Developers do you even play your game when you are going to mess with addons of Wesker And Blight set them 4.4 when Nurse will get only 1 blink which is more than enough for her?Its like you have no idea about balancing killers with high mobility .A lot of people are already tired to see 3 of them each match.Its the same story as was with Billy back in time people abuse broken and overpowered killers because they dont want to sweat and try on balanced ones .May be its time to open your eyes finally and balance this killers in the same way you did with Billy .Because your game supposed to be about different killers not this trio .
It will get nerfed when there is a loop/pallet/body block nerf. Instead they'll add more pallets as survivors complain.
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@k3ijus said:
@JackOfTrades this endurance effect is only lasting under the impress the killer is face-camping;Which the developers are obviously against as their implementing this feature.And while killers should feel free to tunnel- survivors deserve a chance to retaliate against the unfair playstyle.
It's not unfair just because it's hard and you don't like it.
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457198#Comment_3457198
THANK YOU. If maps continue to get pallet stuffed, this idea could help decrease problems like pre-dropping and wasting. What I want most of all, though, is for maps to be fixed in the first place. I swear, they get more and more survivor-sided with each one that comes out. Borgo and Toba? Just horrid.
That's because someone in charge of "game stats" or "game fun" at BHVR thinks 50:50 ratio of survivor to killer wins is what should happen. It should be fair, not tweaked to 50:50, even if it means skewing that ratio either way. It's just someone's simple way of making it easier for survivors. "Did we get to a 56% killer ratio? Lets just add 20 more pallets." Now killers have to run an anti-pallet perk rather than tell survivors, "it's time to try some new strategies, here's some suggestions."
I think BVHR in general does an awesome job with this game, it's a lot of fun despite some my bits of whining around some mechanics faults. But the people that plan the overall direction of the game need to stop kowtowing to the survivors. Just because something is hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457692#Comment_3457692
Well that just depends on the map
Sort of. You're right that it's harder to do on an indoor map, but they still get such a head start and they make the choice on which corner they want to turn, not the killer, offset that ability to low skill w-key across map.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Since the healing nerfs went live, it is hard seeing anyone running Circle of Healing or med kits for that matter. What was even the point of making self-healing with medkits 35% slower than having someone else heal you. I think the efficiency nerfs were enough.
It had a huge and negative impact on solo players especially, if you could not find anyone who could heal you, you'd be a massive liability to the rest of the players on the team, due to how slow self-healing is (in fairness, Self-care should be reverted to 50%, now that Circle of Healing does not work on self healing anymore)
With Sloppy Butcher being an over-used perk at the moment, healing others, or yourself takes so long, when you are not bringing We'll make it. And self-healing against Sloppy is just a waste of time in its current state.
Also, with a self-healing efficiency penalty now being in place on medkits, I think it would be good to lower or remove the penalty on Botany Knowledge. No one runs this perk nowadays. Hell, ever since the efficiency penalty got added, I have not seen a SINGLE person run this perk. That was one year ago. In its current form, it is just a waste of a slot.
Killers also got nerfed - Eruption, Pain Res, etc. Works both ways friend.
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@LordHeXaGoN said:
Totally cannot be outplayed if you are 4.4 maniac.
especially with bloodlust.
In the endgame you cannot be able to chase survivior with 4.4 speed.
Because if you do you just lose/
I hope developers will fix it.
I have one suggestion for this: "made for this" is off in the endgame.
With that this perk should go away from strongest perk chain ever and should be nicely to use but not so strong with hope.
The fact that you can hit a survivor and they can run straight across the board with no obstacles and can't be caught is a huge issue. Made for This makes it worse.
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@Seal_Massacre said:
Proposal for a new MMR formula for Dead by Daylight
Hello to whoever takes the time to read this. Let’s start with an introduction of myself and then move onto how I think Dead By Daylight could have a better MMR/SBMM system implemented.
My name is Jon (AKA Seal or Seal_Massacre on twitch) and I am a 6k+ hour killer main on Dead By Daylight. Roughly 70% of that playtime is on the killer side and around 30% of that is on the survivor side. I have done pretty much every build you can think of for both sides. I have been playing MMR based games for nearly 15 years. Games such as Smite, Gears of War, Call of Duty, World of Warcraft just to name a few. With that being said I have and currently do play every single killer in the game including the newest release The Singularity as I am writing this. I also do monthly challenges where I take a killer each month individually from Ash 4 to Iridescent 1 going in order of release. As I do those I record all of my kills. I consider a fair win condition to be a 3k+ with a minimum of 9 individual hooks on the killer side of things. As survivor win rates go I consider at least 3 survivors escaping regardless of hook stages. 2k’s being a draw for both sides if the killer has hooked at least everyone once. Let’s move on to the more in depth calculations of my thought process and possible better ways to tweak this system we currently have in the game.
Now all I would like to say is that most if not all of the community agrees that if a killer gets a ton of actual hooks instead of forcing stages by camping and also ends chases quickly makes them a better killer. I get that camping and tunneling is a strategy but it’s the easy way out if done properly. With that being said it also makes the game stale for both sides. Survivor on the other hand I want to talk about chase time and altruistic plays such as pallet saves, flashlight saves etc. As a killer main I will actually compliment survivors if they run me for a longer chase than I want. Now the people that hide all match long and still escape but didn’t go for any chase time to prevent their teammates from dying early. Did they actually do anything skillful? I feel like everyone could just hide all match and escape if done correctly. Also makes it frustrating for both sides. The main take here is that Killers should be rewarded for actual hook actions, ending chases fast and spreading pressure as efficiently as possible. Survivors should be rewarded for having long chases and being altruistic and interacting with the killer. This whole MMR system being solely based off of kills and escapes is not good for the game.
Everything we need for this formula is already being recorded in game. The MMR should be visible to everyone when you’re in a lobby and at the end of the match near the scoreboard somewhere. All survivors should have the same MMR meaning no matter which survivor you play you will have the same MMR regardless. Since Killers have different powers and are played differently for the most part they should have their own MMR rating and not being influenced by other killers in the game. I do understand that if this gets taken seriously and someday goes into effect that there will be some matchmaking issues but it will be resolved by playing the game. What I mean by that is, let’s say a new killer comes out and it starts off at the base starting MMR which is 1000 for the sake of this discussion. Then Veteran’s such as myself won’t get thrown into a lobby full of extremely good survivors while I’m trying to learn a killer. I know that bot matches exist now but it’s a much better experience to play against real people to learn because bots play way different than actual people.
Let’s talk about the MMR brackets now which I think should have a tiny range adjustments. This formula I am proposing to BHVR is going to need a complete reset of all players. So please bare with me and keep this in mind. Only time will make this work way better than the system we have now. I understand that once this goes into effect there will be bumps early on but it will fix itself over time.
Bracket 1 : Ash: 0-650 MMR – Everyone would start here once this would go into effect. Starting at 0 and working upwards. Brand new players will stay here until they get a hole od the game and move into the Bronze bracket,
Bracket 2 : Bronze: 651-1000 This is for the fairly new players that kind of know how the game works for both sides but still need improvement or the people that play the game very casually.
Bracket 3 : Silver 1001-1600 This bracket is for the more experienced player that have some time in game. They aren’t super efficient but they know what to do to get the job done. A good chunk of the player base would be in this bracket or the next bracket.
Bracket 4 : Gold 1600–2200 This would be for the players that are experienced enough to be considered average and where most of the player base would sit around.
Bracket 5 : Iridescent 2201-2800 This bracket is for the really good players that have a ton of knowledge of the game for both sides. I would call this bracket the comfort zone where you don’t feel like you’re going to win or lose every match but there would be a good balance of really good players.
Bracket 6 : Grandmaster Iridescent 2800-3000 These are the absolute best players in DBD for both sides. Killers that are extremely efficient at getting a lot of hooks every game and ending chases fast. While Survivors being the ones that can have a long chase almost every time the occasion rises up. This will be where all the competitive players will be once and if this system becomes a reality.
So finally getting into the deeper math part of this formula. These will both be brief explanation of how I think and many others think it should work. Starting with Survivors. I think this should be split up into 3 categories. Altruism, Chase, and finally Objectives.
Altruism points would be revolved around taking protection hits, unhooks, healing others, sabotaging hooks, flashlight saves, pallet saves, and locker saves. The more you interact with the killer the higher this rewards. Causing Distractions and wasting the killer’s time in the best way to get the final objective done which is getting those generators done and escaping.
Chase points would be how long you can last in a chase. Now some may say just pre-drop pallets to make this easier to get. Yes so here’s the solution. Chase time is the BEST thing a survivor can do to show personal skill. So stunning the killer with a pallet will reward you more points as it already does in game in this category. The longer the chase the more points you get in this category. Every 10 seconds of chase would give a certain amount of points in this category. We will need a little bit of an adjustment to when the chase ends in game because most of the time if the killer breaks a pallet the chase ends. On a side note generator progress that is being done during chase will be implemented into the objective category for yourself.
Objective categories will be the smallest factor in this equation but still punishable if you don’t do anything objective wise. I think the first two brackets are more important than this one. Anyone can sit on a generator and hit skill checks. But this needs to be done for the final objective. So in order for this to change the outcome of this not reducing the MMR granted in this category a survivor must do at least 1 generator and 1 totem. Gens have to be completed and totems can be done but it’s optional for the most part but Hex perks do exist. Reminder this will be the least focused on category but still looked at like a bonus category.
Onto the killer side of things. Most people will say that good killers will get 8+ hooks a game and end chases quickly. I want to split this up into 4 categories instead of the 3 for survivor. The reason for 4 is that there’s way more to do as a killer than a survivor has to do. Categories being Chase, Sacrifice, Gatekeeper (Gen defense), and Brutality (keeping health states and getting a lot of hits)
First up is Chase. The faster you end a chase is going to make your games go smoother. You’ll lose most of your games if you chase too long and a good killer knows that. So what you want to calculate here is how fast you can end chases. Now I know there are instant down killers such as Bubba, Billy, Ghost Face, Myers and a few others with the right addons. So once a chase starts the points will start at a maximum for any given chase. For example, not real numbers…Let’s say once a chase starts you start with a total of 20 points every 15 seconds you’re in a chase you lose 1 point. If it’s an instant down you double the points lost because you take two health states if they are healthy. But let’s say you use your chainsaw to get the down on the injured survivor. You’d still get the normal points deducted if any. This would be the second most important ingredient to this formula.
Next up Sacrifice. The most important one. 12 hooks (3 individual hooks on each survivor) is a perfect game. Accomplishing this is would make you get the most amount of points in this category. Let’s say you get 2 points per individual hook. Which would make for a total of 24 points in this category. In order for you to get points for a hook stage due to another survivor not saving them would only require you to be more than 24m away from the hook when they go to 2nd chase or death. This would prevent camping and securing stages because I know that’s an issue currently. Everyone does. If you hook every survivor at least once you’d get another 2 points if you hook everyone at least twice that’s additional 2 points. That would help with the tunneling issue if you wanted to increase your MMR to the max. This would encourage to go after everybody in the trial. It wouldn’t solve camping and tunneling 100% but I think having the mindset to get a ton of hooks and chases with different survivors would make it fun for everyone in the trail.
Moving on to Gatekeeper. This is your ability to YOU GUESSED IT protect your generators. Most of the time the first 2 generators are free for survivors and they are usually gone by the 2-3 minute mark of the match so losing those first two won’t make you lose many points in this category it’s the final 3 remaining generators to complete that we will be talking about. So let’s say that you start the match with 25 points. Losing the 1st generator is -2 points, losing the second generator is -3 points, losing the 3rd generator is -4, losing the 4th generator is -7, losing the 5th generator is -9. Now even as a veteran player I do lose all 5 gens so we are going to have to equate how long these gens stay up as well so you don’t lose all the points in this category. Every 120 seconds you will be rewarded a point back. If the gates are not opened you get an additional 2 points. If all gens are still not repaired you get an additional 5 points.
The fun category. Brutality. Chasing survivors is the most fun you can have and getting those nice cross map hatchets or those chainsaw curves with Billy feels amazing. Enough of the fangirling for Billy though. To get points in this category you will have to get a lot of hits on survivors and will get bonus points for using your killer’s power. As a killer you want multiple people injured at any given time. This will make chases easier and force survivors to heal if they don’t want to go down fast. Last thing you want are those survivors working on gens. It’s your job to protect them. So getting points for injuring survivors and bonus points for using your power. It will make it a little more challenging for killers to get those bonus points since I’ve seen it numerous times where Wesker will only M1 you and never use his power instead of using it for distance. Just an example. USE YOUR POWER GUYS!
Thanks to anyone that took the time out of their day to read this and maybe consider reposting this to get it to BHVR’s attention. I didn’t want to go into too much detail but I can actually write up actual numbers of what I think would be good. These numbers I used were just for examples. But I just wanted to get BHVR to maybe take a second look at the current formula. Because in in my eyes this would be a much healthier system even though it’ll be rough in the start once everyone got reset to 0 MMR. It would balance out over time but it would only take maybe a month to get resolved and working to the best of it’s ability. If you want to contact me with any discussion or changes to this or just to give me your thoughts on this you can find me on twitch @ twitch.tv/seal_massacre. I stream late nights Central time anywhere from 8pm-9am. Thank you again for reading my suggestion. I hope BHVR sees this some day and takes it into consideration.
Interesting proposals, but dont you worry about queue times here? Maybe you mentioned something about it and I missed it.
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@uganda_calm said:
If you dont want to read the whole post you can just jump to the section were a answered your comment.
@Havocus :
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456215#Comment_3456215
Other killers can't hold a 3 gen even remotely as well as SM can. You actually have a chance vs a knight, doctor, artist--as they do not have drones capable of watching all 3 gens for them, that also give them haste/stealth/exhaustion/exposure.
i just want to tell you that this statement is just wrong. I myself as killer main played 3-gen for a bit (not proud of it and there is no excuse for this) and with the build i used, every killer can hold a 3-gen.
Call of Brine - Overcharge - Merciless Storm - Jolt/Eruption
With this build and by just patrolling the gens and not committing to chases, every killer can hold a 3-gen without breaking a sweat. So 3-genning is not a Skull Merchant problem its a mentality problem. If a killer wants to 3-gen, they can, no matter what killer they can or want to play. (and yes, SM is the "best" for this, but not by much)
Either they change something in general about how gens work in late game or it will be a problem forever. Just reworking Skull Merchant wont get rid of this.
But the problem is not just with the killers but the survivors too (not every one of course). In the current toolbox meta, many killers feel like they have no chance outside of 3-genning. If 4 gens pop within the first 1-minute-chase, you have to understand that this is really frustrating for a killer. And if this happens 3 or 4 times in a row, you have to think of a way to work around this. And 3-genning is the easiest solution for this.
So gen-rushing and 3-genning are just two sides of the same coin, you cant have one and then expect to get rid of the other one.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457168#Comment_3457168
Yes I've faced a 3 gen Wesker, once, at the peak of eruption gameplay (and when I say 3 gen in this context I mean the full sweat lords that go into the game with the intent to hold a 3 gen for an hour and a half if they have to).
Btw, it is highly possible that this wesker was me, so sorry for that if this was the case.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457094#Comment_3457094
Cant fix something if you take it out as soon as there is a problem with it. You need a lot of player data to re-balance a killer.
@DaddyMyers_Mori :
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457111#Comment_3457111
Issue got way better for survivors with how much CoB build got nerfed. Skull merchant is nowhere near as good as she was at 3-gen. She is holding 3-gen using passive regression, but those perks got nerfed hard. They are trash.
This is just wrong. regression perks were not nerfed from balanced into thrash, they were nerfed from op to balanced. CoB is still a good perk for regression and also for in-tell. And overcharge, too.
It is possible to break her 3-gen. It used to be near impossible, but that was nerfed.
In my opinion a 3-gen is not breakable for casual survivors. If a killer is intending on a 3-gen from the beginning there is no way to work around it. 3-gen is only breakable if the killer is highly incompetent or the survivors are experts in the game.
In a match were the killer and the survivors a on the approximately same skill level, there is no "breaking out of a 3-gen".
If you had 1 hour long game, then it simply means you didn't even try to break her 3-gen and were hiding in corner of the map, which I consider another issue.
If you dont want to die and also want to repair the gen, what else can you do except sitting on the gen and hide as soon as the killer comes near you, repeating until they get you/until the gen is repaired? For real, tell me what a survivor is supposed to do in your opinion to speed this up and escape?
In a lot of answers, people like you always say that it s possible to break a 3-gen but no one ever writes HOW to do it.
(I am a killer main, never playing survivor and have for real no idea how this should work)
@tubalcane :
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457186#Comment_3457186
Wahhhh 3-gen: Don't leave the last 3 gens close to each other.
Same as i said previously, if a killer is intended on 3-genning from the beginning, this does not work. If a killer WANTS to 3-gen, he can and will do it.
(but you first 2 points a true)
i also think survivor mains complain a bit to much. Some killers are just extremely weak and this since there release (myers, Freddy, Trapper, Pyramid Head, clown). And none of them got changed a lot. Just recently seen with the planned pyramid head buff. While survivors get a new anti-(insert problem)-mechanic/perk almost every season.
@YOURFRIEND :
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456255#Comment_3456255
Nothing in this comment is true, not one single point, bro. Activate your second braincell for just one second, please. You would do every one a big favor. The way you wrote your comment, you never got 3-genned for real in you entire life.
I don't know man - I tried forcing 3-gens a while back and it doesn't really work unless you can kill off at least 1-2 survivors first. It's a lot harder than survivors think it is for killers. Survivors can just tap the gen to stop the kick (again, another advantage that they can just tap the gen and we need to kick and lose valuable time) then w-key away at a pace that is barely a gnats ass slower than the killer. It's easy to get dragged away and 3 good (or even just decent) survivors can definitely beat me when doing this.
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@Havocus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457186#Comment_3457186
Tell me you don't know how to read without telling me you don't know how to read.
You said what exactly is it about skull merchant holding a 3 gen for an hour that you think is ok?
I read above and answered. Stop whining about 3 gens and dont make them in the first place. Stop trying to make it even easier for survivors - 20+ pallets, window after window, no penalty for making bad choices, always a window or a pallet or a maze.
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@notyarbllewe said:
It'd obviously need a lot of work to be balance perfectly, but an idea I have to decrease the chance of these strategies is this: you have a cooldown from slamming pallets. It'd both prevent so much predropping as well as possibly help against pallet stuffed maps.
You nailed it here - successive pallets should be less effected. Vaulting as well. Even if it's only a short cooldown. Survivors should be rewarded for effective and creative evasion, not just dropping every pallet or infinite loops.
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Why do you need a bailout? Why don't you just go do gens? This works every time. All you guys want is to make the game easier instead for you instead of implementing working strategies. It's getting ridiculous.
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@Havocus said:
^
You put yourself in that position. Stop trying to make the game easier for survivors all the time when you make mistakes.
camping: Go do gens.
tunneling: Learn to evade.
3-gen: Don't leave the last 3 gens close to each other.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456295#Comment_3456295
You don't really use Knight's power to deal damage, though, so the survivors being faster than the guards doesn't really matter that much? They still have to run away, meaning you're still getting them flushed out in the direction you want them to be running.
"You don't really use Knight's power to deal damage"
Huh? More easy mode every patch for survivors
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Who at BHVR thinks this is a good idea? There is already a solution to camping, it's called "doing gens".
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@Boons123 said:
Say you had a bad match and then you write this
It's a matter of skills
I want them to remove camping entirely because it's a very boring gameplay
Update 6.1 Killers have been improved
And in April, the Med-kit was made less effective if you use it on yourself (you can only heal yourself twice with Add-ons). And slow be 33% and nerf boon: circle of healing
and buff some killer perks
and combing more on future
So do not say that the developers did not improve the killers
So this is your logic
Buff survivor = the game is dying
Buff killer = The game is getting better
The game is not dead nor is it even close to that
"I want them to remove camping entirely because it's a very boring gameplay"
AKA "It's boring because it causes me to lose."
I'd like them to reduce pallets by 30-40% and make loops deteriorate over time. That's boring to me.
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@Green_Sliche said:
Killer is becoming more and more stressful and punishing experience. Unless you get inexperienced survivors, there's little to no room for mistake. With recent nerf of almost all regression perks, you must resort to all sorts of pressure, be it tunneling or proxy camping if you want to win somehow.
Survivor experience is more forgiving, though you are at the mercy of luck - your team mates can be either decent bunch or monkeys who tap on keyboard.
SWFs are fine as always. No changes there.
You nailed it. There is ALWAYS an out for survivor. An infinite loop. A pallet. A random turn. There needs to be more penalties for poor survivor choices.