tolore
tolore
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yeah the whole "I went and found someone else and the ran right ot the hook and looped me around it" others have mentioned happens to me pretty frequently on killer. 70% of the time I am around the hook it's because the other survivors won't lead me away from it or actively me bring me to the hook. the other 30% is when nothing triggers on BBQ and i see no one show up until I see someone bee line for it. Here's my suggestion which is purely buffs for both sides, and mostly only buffs for newer players/blood point buffs.
@tolore said:
So I'll start with the suggestion and then go into my reasoning why, and a little bit on the general discourse around this topic after.
Suggestion part 1: Rework BBQ and Chilli to be something completely different, make an exact copy of current BBQ and chilli and start with it unlocked on every killer.
Add a massive blood point gain in some way to kindred similar to BBQ and Chilli. also start every survivor with kindred unlocked
For the first 30 players levels(or some other reasonable value) force the 4th perk slot for killers to be BBQ and Chilli(even if they don't have the 4th perk slot unlocked yet), and do the same for survivors with new kindred.
Suggestion part 1 reasoning: Both of these perks are incredibly useful teaching tools for new players, and both help you with the information you need to know to counter camping, and teaching the killer how to not camp(and rewarding them heavily for it). Consider these training wheel perks for both sides, and by FORCING them to be used for a certain number of levels I think it will vassly lower the problem of camping at low levels. In addition, this nerfs no one, it gives two awesome QoL perks for both sides to use, and it helps solo players much more than SWF.
Suggestion part 2: Camping WILL still happen, that's unavoidable. General change to blood points/pipping for survivors. Survivor pips and BP are not calculated until the match is done(they can still leave once they are dead and go do another match with no penalty). Survivors are awarded BP and pips at the end based on how well the team did overall, so if you get camped to death but the other 3 people slam gens and get out, you get rewarded with BP and pips. Possible alternative, anyone hooked, with a killer near them, gets points for gens being done by other players(this is probably WAY easier to code)
Suggestion part 2 reasoning: A lot of the counter arguments to camping being bad are "it's a legit strategy" or "you can't remove player agency", which to be fair I totally agree with. Camping is not unfair to the survivor TEAM. It is WILDLY unfair to the survivor getting camped though. spending several minutes on hook and dying is not a fair punishment for getting downed once. This will at least reward the player getting camped for the bad experience, assuming the rest of the team does the proper counterplay to camping(gen slamming). It will also hopefully make the hooked survivor feel more like they are sacrificing their life for the team, than getting screwed.
General discourse: There's a lot of stuff from both sides that I don't like. From killers, i feel like a lot of people have very little empathy for the person being camped. Yes player agency is important, yes it's not an unfair tactic for the enemy TEAM, but it sucks a LOT for the individual. I guarantee there are new players out there who got camped early and quit the game, it's an awful experience, and if it was my first impression of the game i'd likely have quit also. For the survivors, yes getting camped sucks, a vast majority of times though you getting camped isn't a cackling villain licking your survivor tears. Sometimes you really don't know where to find other people(especially when new or have terrible perks), and you say "well if i stay here someone will come to rescue them and I can chase", or you feel so pressured the camp seems like the only way to get a kill. Or you hooked someone next to regressing gens and it's legitimately a smart idea to camp. There is no way to remove camping as a tactic without severely nerfing killers overall, and you can't ban/punish it without hitting new players who don't know what else to do.
Even if this doesn't go far enough for some people I hope most would agree this would make the camping situation BETTER.
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yeah, it's really hard to write rules for punishing killers for staying near a hook with in game disadvantages that aren't unfair. IE you handle chase solutions, but what if you hook a survivor between 2 regressing gens? What if that survivor has seen a hard to find totem location that you need to protect, what if there's only two survivors left? How do you communicate that camping is causing them debuffs to new players? how do you teach new players WHAT to do when they hook someone, seems unfair to say "hook people and kill them, but you can't protect your hooks to cause kills" to new players without giving them the tools to do something else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a killer main, but i play survivor a little, in the cases where a killer is just hard camping someone for little to no reason sucks, and we should try to curb that behavior the best we can, where we can. i've been making this pitch enough times I just made a post about it i can quote.
@tolore said:
So I'll start with the suggestion and then go into my reasoning why, and a little bit on the general discourse around this topic after.
Suggestion part 1: Rework BBQ and Chilli to be something completely different, make an exact copy of current BBQ and chilli and start with it unlocked on every killer.
Add a massive blood point gain in some way to kindred similar to BBQ and Chilli. also start every survivor with kindred unlocked
For the first 30 players levels(or some other reasonable value) force the 4th perk slot for killers to be BBQ and Chilli(even if they don't have the 4th perk slot unlocked yet), and do the same for survivors with new kindred.
Suggestion part 1 reasoning: Both of these perks are incredibly useful teaching tools for new players, and both help you with the information you need to know to counter camping, and teaching the killer how to not camp(and rewarding them heavily for it). Consider these training wheel perks for both sides, and by FORCING them to be used for a certain number of levels I think it will vassly lower the problem of camping at low levels. In addition, this nerfs no one, it gives two awesome QoL perks for both sides to use, and it helps solo players much more than SWF.
Suggestion part 2: Camping WILL still happen, that's unavoidable. General change to blood points/pipping for survivors. Survivor pips and BP are not calculated until the match is done(they can still leave once they are dead and go do another match with no penalty). Survivors are awarded BP and pips at the end based on how well the team did overall, so if you get camped to death but the other 3 people slam gens and get out, you get rewarded with BP and pips. Possible alternative, anyone hooked, with a killer near them, gets points for gens being done by other players(this is probably WAY easier to code)
Suggestion part 2 reasoning: A lot of the counter arguments to camping being bad are "it's a legit strategy" or "you can't remove player agency", which to be fair I totally agree with. Camping is not unfair to the survivor TEAM. It is WILDLY unfair to the survivor getting camped though. spending several minutes on hook and dying is not a fair punishment for getting downed once. This will at least reward the player getting camped for the bad experience, assuming the rest of the team does the proper counterplay to camping(gen slamming). It will also hopefully make the hooked survivor feel more like they are sacrificing their life for the team, than getting screwed.
General discourse: There's a lot of stuff from both sides that I don't like. From killers, i feel like a lot of people have very little empathy for the person being camped. Yes player agency is important, yes it's not an unfair tactic for the enemy TEAM, but it sucks a LOT for the individual. I guarantee there are new players out there who got camped early and quit the game, it's an awful experience, and if it was my first impression of the game i'd likely have quit also. For the survivors, yes getting camped sucks, a vast majority of times though you getting camped isn't a cackling villain licking your survivor tears. Sometimes you really don't know where to find other people(especially when new or have terrible perks), and you say "well if i stay here someone will come to rescue them and I can chase", or you feel so pressured the camp seems like the only way to get a kill. Or you hooked someone next to regressing gens and it's legitimately a smart idea to camp. There is no way to remove camping as a tactic without severely nerfing killers overall, and you can't ban/punish it without hitting new players who don't know what else to do.
Even if this doesn't go far enough for some people I hope most would agree this would make the camping situation BETTER.
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yeah killer queue times are great, a good portion of the reason i rarely play survivor now that spacebar mash is gone.
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I wasn't around for the old tests, but i think y oru exact suggestion has been on the beta realm twice, if other people are to be believed. And was super abusable.
My idea to at least alleviate camping, that involves no nerfs, buffs survivors and killers, helps new players, and increases BP gain for survivors.
@tolore said:
So I'll start with the suggestion and then go into my reasoning why, and a little bit on the general discourse around this topic after.
Suggestion part 1: Rework BBQ and Chilli to be something completely different, make an exact copy of current BBQ and chilli and start with it unlocked on every killer.
Add a massive blood point gain in some way to kindred similar to BBQ and Chilli. also start every survivor with kindred unlocked
For the first 30 players levels(or some other reasonable value) force the 4th perk slot for killers to be BBQ and Chilli(even if they don't have the 4th perk slot unlocked yet), and do the same for survivors with new kindred.
Suggestion part 1 reasoning: Both of these perks are incredibly useful teaching tools for new players, and both help you with the information you need to know to counter camping, and teaching the killer how to not camp(and rewarding them heavily for it). Consider these training wheel perks for both sides, and by FORCING them to be used for a certain number of levels I think it will vassly lower the problem of camping at low levels. In addition, this nerfs no one, it gives two awesome QoL perks for both sides to use, and it helps solo players much more than SWF.
Suggestion part 2: Camping WILL still happen, that's unavoidable. General change to blood points/pipping for survivors. Survivor pips and BP are not calculated until the match is done(they can still leave once they are dead and go do another match with no penalty). Survivors are awarded BP and pips at the end based on how well the team did overall, so if you get camped to death but the other 3 people slam gens and get out, you get rewarded with BP and pips. Possible alternative, anyone hooked, with a killer near them, gets points for gens being done by other players(this is probably WAY easier to code)
Suggestion part 2 reasoning: A lot of the counter arguments to camping being bad are "it's a legit strategy" or "you can't remove player agency", which to be fair I totally agree with. Camping is not unfair to the survivor TEAM. It is WILDLY unfair to the survivor getting camped though. spending several minutes on hook and dying is not a fair punishment for getting downed once. This will at least reward the player getting camped for the bad experience, assuming the rest of the team does the proper counterplay to camping(gen slamming). It will also hopefully make the hooked survivor feel more like they are sacrificing their life for the team, than getting screwed.
General discourse: There's a lot of stuff from both sides that I don't like. From killers, i feel like a lot of people have very little empathy for the person being camped. Yes player agency is important, yes it's not an unfair tactic for the enemy TEAM, but it sucks a LOT for the individual. I guarantee there are new players out there who got camped early and quit the game, it's an awful experience, and if it was my first impression of the game i'd likely have quit also. For the survivors, yes getting camped sucks, a vast majority of times though you getting camped isn't a cackling villain licking your survivor tears. Sometimes you really don't know where to find other people(especially when new or have terrible perks), and you say "well if i stay here someone will come to rescue them and I can chase", or you feel so pressured the camp seems like the only way to get a kill. Or you hooked someone next to regressing gens and it's legitimately a smart idea to camp. There is no way to remove camping as a tactic without severely nerfing killers overall, and you can't ban/punish it without hitting new players who don't know what else to do.
Even if this doesn't go far enough for some people I hope most would agree this would make the camping situation BETTER.
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They should, Likely, have telemetry for what happens in the game. What are even reportable killer behaviors? Saying mean things in post game chat, chat logs can be searched, purposely stalling the game, the game can detect how many drop, pickup, drop pickup, drop, pick up, until survivor is on their feet. Given how basically every game with reporting and automated ban systems don't factor in evidencless reports, i think it's little silly to assume that behavior will just be like "they get reported every time they win with no evidence to back it up from our servers, guess we'll ban them". Also I know games like leagues system start throwing peoples reports out for false reporting. IE "this survivor reports every time their team loses" start ignoring that players reports.
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@Spyonme said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2219100#Comment_2219100
- thats not entirely true as the griefing part actually states "Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience" and thats most of the time what those killers are doing and thats what i am complaining about since its the combination of camping and tunneling
You can't make camping bannable/punishable behavior behavior. If a new player makes the call that that's the best way to win the game because they don't know how to track well, they don't really understand how the game works yet, don't have perks like BBQ etc... Not everyone who camps is doing it maliciously to ruin someone's experience.
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oh yeah i'm fully on board with that, I thought it was the weirdest thing in the world when i started playing this game and was like "wait, I don't actually get to kill them?":
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yeah, sweet home survive looks neat too, though pretty different in a lot of ways. I hope the genre grows and all the games can learn from eachother.
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I think mori's are a side grade to hooking. they arguably take longer, depending on how close the nearest hook is, and you can even choose a hook in the direction you want to walk anyways. But you do get to skip stuff like DS, and no one can interrupt your mori with flashlights or anything.
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Sure I absolutely agree on that, this game has no real competition yet. But you can't make claims the game is dying, and not only that that data SUPPORTS that dying, when all data says this is probably the biggest the game has ever been, and it's getting bigger. Not saying the game is perfect either, and i think discouraging camping(the right way) is super important.
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oops, didn't mean to post both those, it looked like my first one got deleted, so i retyped.
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2215238#Comment_2215238
Actually the data supports my claims, the only time the numbers even remotely go up is when there's a new DLC release, with the exception of the pandemic the numbers have been steadily on the decline.
It's basically impossible to look at that graph and see it trending downwards without sever cherry picking. it trended up from beggining of 2017 until august 2018. then it trended down until February, then had a huge spike, then a dip, that still left it higher than it was. Then trended upwards until september. Then there was a dip until february. Right now we are on a HUGE upswing, that started around all kill, and looks like that upswing is not going to stop anytime soon, since RE is up in 3 weeks.
The game was trending up for years before quarantine, it's been trending up during quarantine, we are currently, right now, at a new peak, and i assume that peak is going to be broken pretty handily in a few weeks.
To be clear there's no chance it doesn't go back down after the huge RE peak, the question will be are we left with a higher amount of remaining players than before. historically the answer is yes. And again, all of this is ignoring literally adding ENTIRE new platforms. The PC population has been trending upwards basically the entire life time of the game, more platforms have been added over time, and we are about to have a huge crossover event. There has never been more people playing this game, and we'll be getting even more in the VERY near future.
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2215238#Comment_2215238
Actually the data supports my claims, the only time the numbers even remotely go up is when there's a new DLC release, with the exception of the pandemic the numbers have been steadily on the decline.
September last year was blights chapter, august and september are basically completely flat, followed by a dip in october, then a big raise in november. so no big raises raises are not only tied to dlc, nor are drop offs only when there hasn't been dlc for a while.
then december had twins dlc, which again was a pretty stable and flat time.
Then all kill came out in march, and there was a decent jump, and that rise has continued, april and may continued to rise, and with RE in 15 days I assume the rise will continue for a while. So we are literally going from one dlc to another dlc with ONLY rising numbers.
looking at 2018, it starts the year bouncing around the 13-16k range, and end the year in the 19-20k range,
There is no way to look at this graph and not see a trend upwards, it was trending upward before the pandemic, it's been trending upward during the pandemic, and it's almost definitely going to trend WAY up in the next few months.
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you can think the game has become worse and people are fed up all you want. Don't claim "the data shows" when the data is literally the exact opposite. Unless you've g ot some data to share!
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remove DC penalty is a little bit of a silly suggestion, that ruins the game for several people who did want to play on that map, or would rather have played on that map than waiting in queue again. If you REALLY wanted to live in a world where you never have to play an indoor map, an option that puts you in an outdoor map only queue is much more reasonable.
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Yeah unless there's weird shenanigans with specific platform players dropping the game, the facts are the numbers right now aren't far off from the peaks, and definitely not "dwindled"
https://steamcharts.com/app/381210#All
edit: as for your suggestions, I think you underrate how much this will effect killers who don't purposely hard tunnel/camp/etc...
Even if you don't camp hooks, you still use knowledge of the hooks location to know where survivors are/are going
even if you don't purposely slug to slow down the game, there are times where the survivors are all in one spot, and if you get a good series of downs you end up slugging 3-4 people. If I down someone right next to another person, then down the second person right next to a 3rd, I'm fine risking the 3rd chase letting the last person save my first slug, but just auto losing it because the survivors led me into eachother one by one?
That's my biggest problem with 99% of all camping/slugging//tunneling fixes i see on this forum, they ALL hit cases where the killer is weaker in a situation where the killer did nothing wrong.
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Because there's a bunch of times where tunneling is fine and good. I had a game today where tinker triggered, I downed someone, i left completely, they got off hook, tinker triggered again, so I went back, same person, downed them, hooked them, left completely, then the same thing happened and i killed them. Under anti tunneling rules do I HAVE to give up that gen because the same guy keeps going back to it? What about the guy who got unhooked and started opening a chest right next to the hook? Do I HAVE to let them get a free item and time while they open a chest in my face because they just got unhooked?
I know not every killer is the same, but I pretty much only tunnel when the survivors are forcing me to, or when they are serving themselves up on a silver platter, and feel like I would be getting handicapped for bad survivor play i fi were punished for it.
I tend to favor solutions that reward killers, and grant killers the information required, to go after other people.
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to be honest, as a killer main who doesn't own and hasn't played spirit yet. That mind game of standing still seems really cool part of. and one of the selling points of the killer to me. Not knowing where the spirit is or what she's doing seems like the theme of the killer. I dunno, not educated enough to make another suggestion, and it certainly seems like something needs to change, pretty much all killer and survivor mains agree she's OP.
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They could at least make an aborted grab deal a damage state to the survivor, I'm fine if i don't get the grab, but I had to no option to swing if I wanted to be safe and at least guarantee a damage.
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killer main here, all looks great to me. It will probably increase the number of games I get gen rushed at the start(super frustrating to be like I found the first guy fast, and downed them fast and then still lose 3 gens), but hopefully it'll also make it more likely for behavior to actually look into that problem.
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Right, but if I hook someone, and someone else is right near the hook, and I start chasing them, and they loop me around the hook instead of leaving, I shouldn't be punished for that.
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I'm against universal anti tunnel/camping mechanics like that. for example, situation, I hook someone, run across the map, they get unhooked, run across the map directly into me. I'm fine if they spent a perk slot to make that situation bad for me, but I don't want a default built in game mechanic punishing me for downing a survivor who offered themselves up on a silver platter.
Same thing with camping, I don't want a base mechanic that punishes me, for example, if I hook someone, and one of their allies loops me around the hooked survivor instead of leading me away. That's the survivors failure not mine.
Both situations i described happen to me as killer relatively often, even in single digit ranks.
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The only thing I ever feel like I really learn from these threads is DC penalty needs to escalate to a ban, and reports for rage suiciding on hook should be investigated and also lead to a ban if enough of them accrue, people are really shameless.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2183087#Comment_2183087
Don't get me wrong; I am 100000000% for hooked Survivors getting a BP bonus. For being 'Wriggling Meat' or a distraction, or something, when camped. They deserve the BP because not getting any sucks, and getting camped sucks.
But I am also 100000000% against exploitable mechanics & punishments for 'camping' when it is, more than it is NOT, a valid strat that slows down gen speeds.
Killers remove 25% OR MORE of the Survivors doing gens, because 1 is hooked, and 1 or 2 (or sometimes all 3) remaining are coming to save them. And why should the predator move if they prey is walking into their jaws? More to the point, why should he be punished for Survivors choosing to do this?
As you said, it's player agency:
The Killer decided to chase that player, down him, hook him, & see if anyone comes.
The Survivors decided to leave gens and sneak to the hook, where they learned the Killer is camping so they...continue to hang around the hook? That was their choice; why should the Killer be forced to walk away, if he knows Survivors are nearby?
And player agency is why I will, always and forever, be against any 'punishments' to 'fix camping'. Because all they are, are exploitable mechanics and punishments meant to give Survivors an unhook just because they want it, or punish the Killer for playing 'unfairly'.
None of the suggestions has ever grasped three vital things:
- Camping only works if Survivors leave gens
- Killers are players, too. They deserve to try just as hard to win as Survivors doing gen rushing
- There are too many times when camping is legitimately used to win matches. Like when a Survivor is hooked between two gens at 70%. Why should the Killer be forced to leave? Why should he be punished? Why should the hook teleport away? Just because Survivors want that unhook?
So again; give the camped Survivor BP. Sure. Distraction Points or something, probably in the Boldness category? But NEVER punish the Killer for trying to win just as hard as genrushing Survivors.
ahh okay i misunderstood your viewpoint, I think I largely agree with all of those points.
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so i'm a killer main(to the extent i clearly didn't even know how kindred worked), I do play survivor. I disagree with Power_guys sentiment that we should just ignore the unfun part of this. I don't really care how much fun the 3 survivors doing gens are hurling themselves at hook have, they have choice and agency, and they can do what the want, either do gens, or make risky plays to save the hooked person.
the part where I am on the survivors side for this one, is the person on the hook. spending a few minutes on hook and then dying is not a fun match, and it's not a fair punishment for getting downed once. It's a scenario I think would never happen in a healthy game, though I don't agree with punishing killers, or as hard of tactics as teleporting killers away for it. Most solutions that aren't "incentivize, and give the proper information" are less healthy than allowing camping to happen in some small number of matches. I've probably played a few dozen hours of survivor and have seen camping happen once.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2181103#Comment_2181103
> I still think strongly that if the solution were focused on making sure killers knew that A. camping was a losing strategy against competent survivors
The issue is, camping isn't a losing strategy against anything but a competent 4-man swiffer on comms.
Because in solo play, without kindred, what happens is that someone gets hooked, and someone attempts an unhook. The time that person loses on checking the hook and finding it camped (not accounting for stealth killers here, either) is already enough to give the killer time for another down after the first target dies.
That's why there's the oft repeated suggestion of making hookstates slow down if the killer is near, since that helps make camping as ineffective as it's claimed to be.
That's a fair point, I would lean more towards an additional axiom of my argument of, help survivors figure out that the hook is being camped. The counter strategy that makes hook camping bad already exists, the problem is knowing that that IS the strategy, and knowing that you are in the face camping scenario. I could see something like the hooked persons aura being a different color if the killer is close enough to the hooked character. That might be a little strong to have as a default mechanic, but definitely feels a little too weak for a perk by itself. maybe roll it into another perk? it's hard for me to conceptualize how good perks are like that for survivors, because technically they get 16 perks as a team, but solo queues don't get much time to coordinate, and no way to communicate in game.
I also think secondly to make this whole thing feel better you gotta do something for the hooked person, because even if the survivor team does their proper counter the person who got hooked still gets a terrible match. I think generally, survivor pipping and blood points hsouldn't be calculated until the match ends, and they should all get a bonus based on number of survivors. Maybe that way at least we could be feeding the player who got hook camped blood points based on gens done while hooked, and when they die let them pip and get some more blood points when the match ends if their team rocked while they got camped.
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@Crimson_Lockhart said:
How many of the player base face camp 10% maybe less this game doesn't need them.
The problem is you are classifying people as "people who camp" and banning them, or implementing stuff that will make them quit. I'm welling to bet MOST of the "people who camp" don't just camp every game for their entire career. The game does a pretty bad job of incentivizing/teaching newer players not to camp.
Like seriously, if you've never played the game before, don't have a bunch of awesome perks, and you hook someone, you go "now what?". You only know where one survivor is, and you know a point(the hooked survivor) that is incredibly enticing to other people, as a new player trying to figure out what do, or even a semi experienced player who is having a rough match, why WOULDN'T you camp. and why shouldn't you be able too?
I still think strongly that if the solution were focused on making sure killers knew that A. camping was a losing strategy against competent survivors and B. made sure that killers had the tools they need to find objectives away from the hook and incentives to get away from the hook that are obvious(a basically unnoticeable point loss for staying near a hook isn't enough) most camping problems would go away..
Driving away players who camp is going to remove a lot of potential non camping killers too, and based on queue times killer population is already low enough.
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heck they could go all the way, collate the add on buffs on the tool tip of the first-aid klit, give the total percentage AND list how many seconds off a normal heal that is.
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@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178296#Comment_2178296
"This whole discussion is so weird to follow because some guys really think these words are a better option than some percentage numbers."
Yes, because every single time so far that someone made an argument about how their personal opinion of what considerably means doesn't match that of the devs, they displayed their complete ignorance of why the devs went with words in the first place, including you.
If we were to judge by your standards, nearly all luck offerings would say slightly, which would be silly.
"If we were to judge by your standards, nearly all luck offerings would say slightly, which would be silly."
yeah, isn't that literally the exact reason he and everyone else is saying percentages work WAY better than words? I literally have no idea what to expect out of the words because some people thing "considerably" means "going from should never try to unhook" to "should still never try to unhook", or "considerably" raise chance of map selection to "tremendously" means 5X to *9999*X.
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Can we also get off this "people can't do ANY math because binomial distributions are hard". most of the stuff in this game is pretty normal , percentages off durations, speed increases, etc... Can everyone do "80 second gen speeds, 20% slow down rate" exactly correct, no. Can a lot of people see 20% and ballpark an idea pretty close, yes absolutely.
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Why not do both? Moderate(X%) increase. Hevck a lot of games give options in the option menuse for simple vs descriptive tool tips.
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I've played a lot of matchmade games, and if there is one thing I learned from all of them it's that games/hours played is no WHERE CLOSE to a decent barometer of skill.
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I've had that problme a few times in the last week, either these code arre only active for a very short time or something weird is going on.
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2159193#Comment_2159193
You don't know if they are going to come back. Does it look like I have mind-reading abilities
I think you, in general, should always assume they are going to come back and relocate as the base assumption. Healing on hook is making the callout of "this killer found something else to do in the time period it took for me to get unhooked". I pretty much always leave hook and roam to find people because I don't want to sit on hook while a bunch of people finish gens. But if I don't find anyone while wandering, and an unhook happens I am going back 100% of the time. I have clues that at least 2 people are in the area of the unhook.
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@deckyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162123#Comment_2162123
not to mention a healthy and important bloodsplatter to chili heatwave dorito conversion tool.
mmm... double bloodpoints with no unlock requirements? sign me RIGHT up
(yes, i have unlocked it and i'm well aware i would have "wasted the BP" if they did this. i don't care, there's SO much grind, new players deserve the double BP perks. do the same thing for WGLF for survivors, too!)
yeah for sure. Some friends told me getting BBQ and chilli is the first thing I should do as a new killer player, that was some DANG good advice. Honestly I think WGLF needs some buffs too. Maybe it's because i'm a crappy survivor compared to how much I play killer, but I find WGLF a lot harder to get full use out of.
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yeah I think this is literally the most healthy perk in the game, it discourages camping AND tunneling. If anything I think BBQ and chilli should be completely reworked, and an exact copy of current BBQ and chili should be added to the general perk pool. Such a healthy and important tool shouldn't be locked behind a paid only killer.
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it's a bit more complicated than that, since DCing is already problem, we'd probably actually get MORE DCs with this change, because you get the extra reason to do it of "this match is bad, I'm even saving my allies from depipping.". Not to mention SWF strategically abusing this to not lose rank to hard matchups. Not saying they shouldn't do something to try and protect innocents players from losing rank due to a suicide or DC, but it's going to be a lot more complicated than "if someone DC's don't lose rank".
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@Astrian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2134056#Comment_2134056
You are not running into actual sweat squads where their use of comms is stopping you from winning games.
You facing off against Joeschmo and his buds playing a couple of rounds of dbd and the actual team of competitve players using comms to their fullest extent are few and far between. The reason why survivors are so strong is because doing generators isn't hard. A good survivor can loop a killer for a long period of time, meanwhile their 3 buds are all on gens, ideally separately. By the time you catch the one person you're getting looped by, thats 3 gens done.
You are not losing to communication, you're losing because you're bad and you don't know how to apply pressure to gens. Basic common sense and game knowledge can usually provide for what Joe and his buds are saying on comms about your position.
I'll bet my left nut that you are not playing at the level where SWF having communication is the reason why you're losing games and not the fact that you could be playing better or that you just flat made mistakes during the game.
only 2 killers are viable at red ranks (nurse and spirit) it's obvious killers need buffs
Every killer besides Trickster is viable at red ranks. Red ranks are no better than Purple Ranks and barely better than Green ranks. The majority of red rank players are still awful and clueless at the game than the majority of the pack. Being at red rank does not require skill you just have to play the game for an extended period of time.
The games you're talking about where only nurse and spirit are viable are maybe 1% of red rank games.
Not coming down on either side of the argument overall, but I am Joe Schmo survivore who plays with his friends and literally just "hey I just heard heartbeat start up are you still in a chase" "yes" gives me so much extra gen time. I think you're underselling the power of even very basic communication here. Yeah a bunch of friends messing around on comms is way weaker than like, someone running object and calling out everything the killer does(one of my buddies did this just to show how dumb it was), but "oh crap I just saw the killer" "he's chasing me off to narnia do gens" alone is very powerful.
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oh another one, I'm sure this has been beaten to death, and i kind of mentioned it, but it deserves it's own bullet point. mashing spacebar for second hook on survivor feels terrible. I honestly think if second hook mashing, and long queue times weren't a thing, I would be pretty on board with playing survivor more.
edit: nother one I just thought of. I 've seen high end killer players recommend turning DOWN graphics settings to make it easier to see scratch marks and blood trails. Probably bad for new players to make tracking harder without somehow knowing they need to turn down graphics. And ideally we should be able to track people well and have the game look its best.