Camping: Yet another suggestion

Solyc

I'm going to keep it simple.

Solution 1: Killer loses 'x'% speed for every 'y' seconds near a hooked survivor (apathy/dullnes/bloodapathy).

Solution 2: Hooked survivor's progress bar slows down when killer is close. This way the other survivor's have more time to do gens.

Exception to 1: When in chase or at 'x' meters from a hooked survivor, apathy is reduced by 1 level every 'y' seconds.

Exception to 2: When in chase or at 'x' meters from a hooked survivor, progress bar recovers speed

The_BiggCheeze

Or camping is a valid strategy when used appropriately and shouldn't add debuffs of any way.

Imagine playing killer and you get steamrolled by survivors and you want ONE kill. You are forced to camp them. And now because you want one kill you are penalized by losing speed, or hook progress being slowed. This would solve nothing and cause more problems and especially hurt newer players.

tolore

yeah, it's really hard to write rules for punishing killers for staying near a hook with in game disadvantages that aren't unfair. IE you handle chase solutions, but what if you hook a survivor between 2 regressing gens? What if that survivor has seen a hard to find totem location that you need to protect, what if there's only two survivors left? How do you communicate that camping is causing them debuffs to new players? how do you teach new players WHAT to do when they hook someone, seems unfair to say "hook people and kill them, but you can't protect your hooks to cause kills" to new players without giving them the tools to do something else.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a killer main, but i play survivor a little, in the cases where a killer is just hard camping someone for little to no reason sucks, and we should try to curb that behavior the best we can, where we can. i've been making this pitch enough times I just made a post about it i can quote.

@tolore said:

So I'll start with the suggestion and then go into my reasoning why, and a little bit on the general discourse around this topic after.

Suggestion part 1: Rework BBQ and Chilli to be something completely different, make an exact copy of current BBQ and chilli and start with it unlocked on every killer.

Add a massive blood point gain in some way to kindred similar to BBQ and Chilli. also start every survivor with kindred unlocked

For the first 30 players levels(or some other reasonable value) force the 4th perk slot for killers to be BBQ and Chilli(even if they don't have the 4th perk slot unlocked yet), and do the same for survivors with new kindred.

Suggestion part 1 reasoning: Both of these perks are incredibly useful teaching tools for new players, and both help you with the information you need to know to counter camping, and teaching the killer how to not camp(and rewarding them heavily for it). Consider these training wheel perks for both sides, and by FORCING them to be used for a certain number of levels I think it will vassly lower the problem of camping at low levels. In addition, this nerfs no one, it gives two awesome QoL perks for both sides to use, and it helps solo players much more than SWF.

Suggestion part 2: Camping WILL still happen, that's unavoidable. General change to blood points/pipping for survivors. Survivor pips and BP are not calculated until the match is done(they can still leave once they are dead and go do another match with no penalty). Survivors are awarded BP and pips at the end based on how well the team did overall, so if you get camped to death but the other 3 people slam gens and get out, you get rewarded with BP and pips. Possible alternative, anyone hooked, with a killer near them, gets points for gens being done by other players(this is probably WAY easier to code)

Suggestion part 2 reasoning: A lot of the counter arguments to camping being bad are "it's a legit strategy" or "you can't remove player agency", which to be fair I totally agree with. Camping is not unfair to the survivor TEAM. It is WILDLY unfair to the survivor getting camped though. spending several minutes on hook and dying is not a fair punishment for getting downed once. This will at least reward the player getting camped for the bad experience, assuming the rest of the team does the proper counterplay to camping(gen slamming). It will also hopefully make the hooked survivor feel more like they are sacrificing their life for the team, than getting screwed.

General discourse: There's a lot of stuff from both sides that I don't like. From killers, i feel like a lot of people have very little empathy for the person being camped. Yes player agency is important, yes it's not an unfair tactic for the enemy TEAM, but it sucks a LOT for the individual. I guarantee there are new players out there who got camped early and quit the game, it's an awful experience, and if it was my first impression of the game i'd likely have quit also. For the survivors, yes getting camped sucks, a vast majority of times though you getting camped isn't a cackling villain licking your survivor tears. Sometimes you really don't know where to find other people(especially when new or have terrible perks), and you say "well if i stay here someone will come to rescue them and I can chase", or you feel so pressured the camp seems like the only way to get a kill. Or you hooked someone next to regressing gens and it's legitimately a smart idea to camp. There is no way to remove camping as a tactic without severely nerfing killers overall, and you can't ban/punish it without hitting new players who don't know what else to do.

Even if this doesn't go far enough for some people I hope most would agree this would make the camping situation BETTER.

Viktor1853

but camping is a valid strategy so no

spookyscary

@The_BiggCheeze said:

Or camping is a valid strategy when used appropriately and shouldn't add debuffs of any way.

Imagine playing killer and you get steamrolled by survivors and you want ONE kill. You are forced to camp them. And now because you want one kill you are penalized by losing speed, or hook progress being slowed. This would solve nothing and cause more problems and especially hurt newer players.

dude, every killer is going to have to accept the fact that there will be at least 1 game where they don’t get a single kill. It isn’t fair for new survivors to be punished for the killer being bad and having to sit through a facecamp/tunnel

The_BiggCheeze

@spookyscary said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2246660#Comment_2246660

dude, every killer is going to have to accept the fact that there will be at least 1 game where they don’t get a single kill. It isn’t fair for new survivors to be punished for the killer being bad and having to sit through a facecamp/tunnel

And it isn't fair for killers who are still learning to get penalized for trying to get a kill.

The problem for you is that you ONLY see it as a survivor problem. Please have an open mind and look at it from BOTH angles. Not just one.

Edit: Survivors are not entitled to an escape just like the killer isn't entitled to a kill. But you shouldn't penalize people for trying.

Saltjar34

Here's a camping nerf, Kindred basekit.

Solyc

@tolore said:

yeah, it's really hard to write rules for punishing killers for staying near a hook with in game disadvantages that aren't unfair. IE you handle chase solutions, but what if you hook a survivor between 2 regressing gens? What if that survivor has seen a hard to find totem location that you need to protect, what if there's only two survivors left? How do you communicate that camping is causing them debuffs to new players? how do you teach new players WHAT to do when they hook someone, seems unfair to say "hook people and kill them, but you can't protect your hooks to cause kills" to new players without giving them the tools to do something else.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a killer main, but i play survivor a little, in the cases where a killer is just hard camping someone for little to no reason sucks, and we should try to curb that behavior the best we can, where we can. i've been making this pitch enough times I just made a post about it i can quote.

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/252715/camping-tunneling-idea

I understand your idea, It's logic, but we have a problem with camping and I think It needs to be solved.

I play both surv and killer.