Why these words instead of percentages for perks and addons?
Slightly, moderately, consuderably, tremendously and greatly are not good definers for perks and addons. Why cant we just have a percentage instead?
Slightly, moderately, consuderably, tremendously and greatly are not good definers for perks and addons. Why cant we just have a percentage instead?
Read THIS post.
Tldr: This is an archived version of the DBD forum, it has all posts, comments and media. The archived data will be published at the end of October. This site is not in any way affiliated with or endorsed by Behaviour Interactive.
Comments
If it takes 80 seconds for a generator to be fully repaired, how long would it take if the repair speed were slowed by 20%?
This is for OP only, please refrain from answering if you're not OP.
quick question: what's your point?
You didnt say he couldnt google it
My point is that most people can't do the math. Putting it in terms of "slightly", "moderately", etc. is better if you want to convey the idea of how these things affect the game. Those who want to (and can) do the math can check the wiki for the exact percentages.
The thing is, most slightlys and moderatelys and considerably and on are different
Sometimes you dont even feel change becausecyou dont know how much its changing
Yes, because "slightly" for something like gen repair (80 seconds base time) isn't the same as "slightly" for healing (16 seconds base time).
You still haven't answered my question, just for the record. The percentages are useless to you if you can't do the math to begin with.
Can you give some examples?
Those words are assumptions by someone else's standard though, which is a problem.
Take Vigo's Jar of Salty Lips: It is said to 'considerably' increase luck. So if your chance to jump off the hook is normally 4%, how much do you get if it is a 'considerable' increase?
7%
You still have no realistic chance of getting off the hook. That 'considerable increase' is pretty negligible.
Giving the percentage allows people to make the estimations for themselves rather than relying on the judgement of someone else. And it's not like DBD is averse to using them either, because perks, more often than not, DO include percentages in their descriptions.
Ideally, we'd have a toggle option to give players the option to simply choose whichever they prefer, so everyone can get exactly what they want.
even if i didn't know the math, which like. isn't hard to do because of calculators. i know that 20% slower is considerably slower but considerably slower doesn't mean that it's 20% slower.
Unhooks follow a binomial distribution. With the base chance and 3 attempts, there's an 11.5% chance of self-unhooking. With the +7% from the offering, it's 29.5%.
You just proved my point about why the numbers are worthless. People simply do not understand the math.
even if i didn't know the math, which like. isn't hard to do because of calculators
The calculations are not the problem, it's the (often incorrect) way in which people do them.
yeah sorry but no, i'd rather people not know how strong something is because they did the maths wrong vs people not knowing how strong something is because the game literally refuses to tell them how strong it is in an objective manner.
And your percentages were wrong.
You have a 4 percent base chance maximum 36 percrnt if 4 people run the purple
I mean 32 i was thinking 8s lol
But, i dont like the words because it prevents you from figuring out how strong something really is. Id like percentages because you csn not only know how strong something is but you can also have a basic understanding of combining certain addons to bring percentages up where you want them to without depending on a word . It would just help newer players understand how addond, perks, items, and offerings have affect and help average-expert players determine good builds using accurate info about them.
I love how you just assume that everyone who plays this game is so stupid they shouldn't be allowed to see numbers.
Unhooks follow a binomial distribution. With the base chance and 3 attempts, there's an 11.5% chance of self-unhooking. With the +7% from the offering, it's 29.5%.
You just proved my point about why the numbers are worthless. People simply do not understand the math.
It's 7% with the offering, not +7% with the offering. So it goes from 11.5% to 19.5%. Still terrible odds. Still not a relevant increase.
Most common addons, some yellow, the slight movespeed and moderate speed for trickster while throwing, things like plunderers at some points, and a few more.
And 20 percent of 80 is 16, its pretty obvious, its just a 5th. I thought you would have answered that already and i dont know who OP is.
However, prove thyself, based on my math, will tak away 15 percent from every survivor working on that generator, so if 1 its 80, 2 is 54, 3 is 34, and 4 is 16.
Because you have 5 percent per survivor. 5 percent of 40 is 2, so that x 3 is 6, and that means it is 34 because the set time fir each survivir is 20 seconds off of 80 for every survivor. Just an example. But, with prove thyself, it will only be 5 percent for each survivor.
Yes, 20% of 80 is 16. However, it's a 20% decrease in speed, not a 20% increase in time. 80/(1-0.2)=100. The increase in time is 20 seconds.
"OP" means "Original Poster", AKA the person who opened the thread (meaning you, in this case). Also sometimes called "TC" (Topic Creator).
My bad. However, if you think going from a little over 1/10 to a little under 1/5 isn't significant, I don't know what to tell you.
yeah sorry but no, i'd rather people not know how strong something is because they did the maths wrong vs people not knowing how strong something is because the game literally refuses to tell them how strong it is in an objective manner.
I'd rather the devs not waste their time with "bug" reports from people who don't know how to do the math.
You can check the wiki if you want to know the percentages, it's all right there.
Please address what I actually wrote, don't pull out a strawman.
Oh its signifacant change Alright. Beware of genrush
What do you expect, exactly? Self-unhooking is supposed to be a last-resort thing to begin with, not something you try every single trial. Does it have to be a 100% self-unhook chance for you to consider it "significant"?
? I was talking about gens
And I was talking about self-unhook probability in the comment you quoted.
I don't get why Orion is fighting this so hard.
There was another post a couple weeks ago and the argument was that it would be too time-consuming for devs and confusing for new players, but I really don't see how forcing new players to google what everything does is more confusing than percentages.
And the whole point about people not knowing how to math is moot when they'd come to the same conclusion after asking the internet what "moderately" means.
Maybe that could come with the next major uodate. Not the chapter, but gameplay wise like the updated graphics. Im expecting new healing, unhook, and vaulting animations, along with some more features like this later to come. If i could guess, id say that survivor models will come with the re chapter ptb.
Hell, in some cases different words mean the exact same thing.
Surgical Suture slightly increases heal speed (green addon)
medical scissors moderately increase heal speed (yellow addon)
needle and thread slight increases healing speed (yellow addon)
all 3 of these addons increase healing speed by 15%
Goes to show just how useless the terminology is.
They probably don’t want the average player to realize just how stupid many addons are for how expensive they are.
Yeah the pigs "Video Tape" says "Slightly reduces Ambush Attack Charge time" but it's a whopping 50% reduction. That same add-on also has a second effect that says "Slightly decreases missed Ambush Attack cool-down" and it's only 20%.
Legions "Cold Dirt" says "Considerably reduces cool-down of Feral Frenzy" but it's only 15%.
There is no consistency and I wouldn't call 50% "slightly". Just give us the numbers ffs.
The internet, unlike the game, tends to not just give the numbers, but also the necessary context to understand them.
I side with Orion on this, this thread amply proved that most players are unable to interpret numbers correctly, especially when it comes to those related to probability. The adverbs do a fine job explaining the relative effect something has compared to the default values.
Yes, by the devs' standard, which should be perfectly fine, since it's their game.
Those are most likely just oversights by the devs when they reworked them. The words don't determine the value, they are independent.
I'm not a fan of the old 'the devs are always right' approach, but it comes off as downright comical when it's back-to-back with a dev oversight.
I don't take it as "the devs are always right" so much as "its the artists vision". While a videogame, with all its interactive elements certainly has enough moving parts that there can be more objectively 'right' or 'wrong' elements, it's ultimately still their product to sell how they want.
Its pretty inconvenient that theres these words because who wants to look for percentages online? Maybe if you like the words the devs can put parentheses nwxt to the word with the percentage inside.
Who can really say thats not a bad idea? It favors al players AND lets players understand how things really have affect on powers, items, and survivirs and killers.(examples, clown: how MUCH are survivors slowed fir 5 seconds? Well, thats a moderate speed decrease(10 percent). How much does the antidote affect your speed? Thats a Considerable haste(10 percent).
It even still helps make accurate builds that booat the right things.
And it will help anybody that wants to know, new or advanced.
This is definitely an issue, IMO. For the same effect, the language should be consistent.
I agree with Orion, the majority is not able to handle numbers. Just remember when people thought that changing Enduring from increasing recovery speed by 75% to reducing recovering time by 50% was a nerf.
You made the possibly worse example. Vigo's Jar of Salty Lips increases luck from 4% to 7%, a 75% increase from base, which is considerable.
Why not do both? Moderate(X%) increase. Hevck a lot of games give options in the option menuse for simple vs descriptive tool tips.
That is the EXACT same thing i just said.
Yeah, 75% from a -really bad base value-. If Vigo's jar of salty lips is supposed to be 'considerable', why does no one ever consider it?
That's the general point, too. These value judgements are made by someone else and are thus utterly unreliable. As also proven by the slightly/considerably mess-up where both are about a 15% heal speed increase.
Just give an option to switch between value judgement and actual percentage.
those words tremendously piss me off
Why does no one consider them? Because, just like you, they do not understand probability.
When it comes to binomial distribution, as Orion explained, the difference between a 4% unhook chance and a 7% unhook chance, despite the seemingly small percentage difference for laymen, is quite big.
It's 11.5% to 19.5%, and that is only if you count all three attempts.
It goes from 'not worth trying unless you're gonna lose a hook anyway' to 'not worth trying unless you're gonna lose a hook anyway'.