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squbax
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949048#Comment_3949048
You keep bringing up pre-running as if you're making a point. Again, what else are survivors supposed to do?
Until you have an actual point about the audio cue, we're done with this discussion. You can't keep falling back on pre-running as a counterpoint when literally every killer has to deal with it.
My point is the audio cue is what makes this killers bad, it id an obvious indicator and something even someone with 4 hours in the game can rely on to guarantee denying the value of a tp in a reliable way.
Yes every killer has to deal with it, but the actual strong killers can deal with it easier, see any good killer in the game, and it turns out they can do so, most of them do so by dashing, hence why dash killers tend to be strong. The reason we do not have any high tier tp killer (bar singularity and even then his tp is more of a chase tool) is because the whole phylosopy behind dbd designing teleports is to make them useless against a player who can count to 3.
Also I dont know why you didnt adress the fact that yes you can absolutelly tell where sadako is coming from without a doubt.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948726#Comment_3948726
Nobody is asking for anything that isn't already standard with every killer. Does Sadako's audio cue tell you which tv she's teleporting to? No. You get an audio cue telling you that she's teleporting. That's all people are asking for. Where you got it in your head that people wanted anything different is beyond me.
Nobody's saying they want to know exactly which door ST is teleporting to. They want a map-wide audio cue, not subtle audio occlusion, that tells them "Hey, ST is teleporting". That's it. They're not asking for a big red neon aura showing ST's exact location.
The difference between Blight and Sadako is that Blight's mobility is on-demand. Sadako's is linked to props that she can teleport between for map pressure. Being able to pressure multiple areas of the map at once is something Blight can't do. The teleport also means that survivors aren't going to pre-run as your terror radius draws nearer to them. They're going to pre-run once they see you, thus allowing you to start chase much sooner than a regular M1 killer.
Survivors are going to pre-run when they see ST exiting the door. The audio cue's only purpose is to tell them that ST is teleporting. That's it. It's not going to change the counterplay, which is pre-running, and it's not going to make ST any weaker.
Sadakos incredibly loud static audio when she comes out of the TV absolutelly tells you where she is coming from, you can exactly pinpoint it even trough walls. And I am sorry, sadako putting pressure all over the map? Lmao what pressure? Sure she can tp all around the map, and do what? She sure as hell wont down me or my team to get pressure cuz she has to catch up to us first, wasting her time, maybe kicking the gen is the most she can do and I can just go work on it again after she tps to another place. Blight can do everything sadako can and more, he can even be a better stealth killer if he uses unforeseen lmao.
Also who preruns as soon as they see you, you can prerun actually faster than from a tr killer, you prerun the second you hear demos tp, see freddy sillouette, hear sadako static, you see the locker handdles vibrate, you hear the turret beeping getting closer, like you are gonna have a hard time trying to convince me people are clueless enough to be sitting ducks when they are given warning that lets them nullify the killer pressure?
Also keep in mid you can prerun and the killer would tp to another gen an not yours, however you can just go back on the gen as soon as you dont hear the loud footsteps or the tr after the sound, you have a full flowchart on how to avoid tps for all those killers with a 100% foolproof.
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@Plu said:
It does, it's on the door, and you can hear him stomping around because he's loud.
Added to that, when he selects a door to travel to the door pannel of the door he will arrive at will flicker, the ambient sound around all map will be quiet, the door will play the door opening sound, and if the door is out of sight the door closing also plays.
People really want a big alarm that tells you "springtrap is teleporting, he is going to this door specifically and you can now prerun accordingly, also here is aura too, might be harder to counterplay him without it, we would not want to make him too op"
Meanwhile ghoul and blight can do EVERYTHING springtrap does better, faster and more efficiently.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948592#Comment_3948592
Once again, it is called counterplay. The audio cue is there to provide counterplay. Without counterplay, there is nothing survivors can do.
Instead of spending 2 minutes walking from one end of the map to the other and losing multiple gens due to a lack of map mobility, Sadako can teleport and push survivors off gens. It is by design that she has to then catch up to the survivors, because otherwise it would be a free hit 100% of the time and the counterplay would be non-existent.
Teleporting is a means of mobility. It's not a chase power. Dashslop killers, as you call them, have chase powers. That's why they're popular. It's also why they tend to have higher killrates than their M1 counterparts.
People don't exclusively want dashslop killers. They want killers whose powers have counterplay.
Yeah we are on the same page tho, Im not saying teleporting is a chase power, specially those tps who cannot surprise anyone even if you pay them for it. Im saying while those powers you call chase, they also serve as mobility, why is billy/ghould and blight mobility good and sadako and dredge is cheeks? Easy cuz the former will get to you and will be able to start chasing you right away or can catch up if you prerun cuz of the tr. Meanwhile the movility tps offer just leave you to arrive and still catch up,meaning losing gen time and pressure or just have to give up the chase cuz the audio cue told survivors in advance the perfect way to avoid that tp.
Yes absolutelly powers require counterplay, but we are seeing people need basically a way to make the killers power absolutelly useless. If trapper were released nowadays people would complain you cannot sabotage his traps and that they do not give a big neon red sign that lets you counter them before you step on them
You can make a tp have an indicator, if fact I already showed ST has 3 of them, but no, we need a clear, obvious infallible indicator that will GUARANTEE the teleport cannot surprise anyone. One thing is providing counterplay like you say for example EMPs against singularty, another one is just being able to just ignore the killers power with a 100% reliable way.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948379#Comment_3948379
If they're easy to dunk on because their secondary power is bad, then that has nothing to do with the audio cue. If they're bad because the audio cue is taking away the element of surprise, then their power was bad to begin with and the audio cue doesn't have as big an impact as you think.
Your assumption is that the teleport is supposed to compensate for their power being bad, but you haven't considered that not all powers are created equal and not every power is a chase power.
Again, I ask why survivors pre-running is bad? This is something every killer in the game has to deal with. Chasing survivors is part of the game. Springtrap has good map mobility with his doors, and has a ranged attack that provides basekit aura reading and increases his movement speed from 4.4m/s to 4.6m/s. He also has basekit undetectable for 20 seconds after using a security door. Doors aren't hindered by RNG like Dredge's lockers and actually spawn next to generators, allowing ST the ability to actually apply map pressure unlike M1 killers. Arguably far from a mediocre power.
Why should Springtrap be the exception to the norm? Especially when every other killer is consistent in that they all have tells that allow survivors to play around their powers. What, if anything, makes Springtrap special such that he should be the exception?
Their secondary power is bad BECAUSE of the audio cue, a sadako can teleport to the other corner of the map but her pressure is gone because hey the 30 seconds she needs to just walk over there now she spends catchig up to the prerun. Same with dredge to a worse degree. Springtrap should not be the expection, in that we agree if bhvr wants to make all tps useless then yeah its unfair STs gets a tp that can actually surprise sentient beings (mind you people are already using the audio occlusion to prerun, but somehow we need a bigger telltale).
As I said to another person here in the forums, springtrap just shows the current dashslop design of killers is comoletely deserved, people want every killer to feel the same, making only a certain type actually effective, god I hope when ST gets nerfed to obscurity people get what they wanted: ghouls and blights, cuz it seems thats what we are asking for.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948562#Comment_3948562
I agree that unbreakable shouldn't be basekit, but I also don't think we should just dismiss the idea of a solution to slugging for the 4k. Either an abandon option, or an option to bleed out faster.
I think bleed out faster is the go to here, people have suggested it a lot, might as well try it. If people use it to grief well roll it back, if it proves usefull keep it.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948444#Comment_3948444
You cannot hear the door unless you are directly next to the door. You also cannot see the door panel unless you are facing the panel.
The global sound occlusion doesnt count too right?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948054#Comment_3948054
Which is it? Either the audio cue makes them easy to dunk on, or there are other factors as to why Sadako and Dredge are easy to dunk on? It certainly can't be both.
You pointed out all the problems with Dredge that make him easy to dunk on, and not a single one had to do with the audio cue for his teleport.
Currently, ST is getting free hits with his teleport because it isn't telegraphed. If you can't see the pad, then what counterplay is there? If there's no counterplay to it, how is that fun to play against?
An audio cue isn't going to see survivors pre-running every time. Especially not if they're working on a high progress gen. An audio cue would simply be telling them that ST is using a door. It wouldn't be telling them which door, specifically. If they pre-run, then yes you have to catch up to them. Why is that a problem? Every other killer has to do this. Why should ST be the exception?
If we're talking about stealth killers, Ghostface has an audio cue when he's using Nightshroud and is nearby. Wraith has an audio cue when he cloaks. You can hear Myers breathing when he's nearby. These audio cues don't make them bad. There are other factors at play as to why they're bad.
Why cant it be both, this is a false dichotomy, they are easy to dunk on because their secondary power is bad, but their tp is also really bad cuz it gives survivors a 3 day notice to prerun accordingly. What makes them bad is gaving a bad power and their teleport which should compensate for having a cheeks power is also cheeks cuz its as obvious as the fact you are playing dbd at that moment so you can just run to safety 100% of the time.
Even with a highly progressed gen you can very easily hear the audio cues other killers have (demo,sadako and dredge) , there is no excuse for not prerunning actively that is not: you could finish the gen so its worth the hit, you are playing without sound, you have a hearing issue or you are blasting music, maybe also if its the first time you are facing those killers.
The audio cue will guarantee you can prerun if you have your audio on
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/448797/springtrap-balance-changes
Forgot to mention- you're right that disabling his tele is a good move, but it should be for an extended period and the reciprocation against a survivor for being caught should be an injury hit instead of a grab.
Maybe the axe can not down too, and his tp should have a 60 second cooldown as well. And he remains 4.4 m all match. That would make him more fun to verse no?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947852#Comment_3947852
Look at that, you've just pointed out a list of reasons why Dredge gets dunked on and none of those reasons are that his teleport as an audio cue.
So, why is it then that if Springtrap gets an audio cue when using a door, he's immediately trash tier and is going to get dunked on? His doors spawn next to generators, and they fixed the problem where chests were taking priority over killer props which makes him far less dependent on RNG.
Survivors will pre-run, yes, but let's not forget that Springtrap isn't just an M1 Killer with a teleport. He also has a ranged attack that, when embedded in a survivor, provides free aura reading. Let's also not forget that this isn't just about making sure Springtrap is fun to play as. Healthy counterplay is what makes killers fun to play against.
His teleport(dredge) may not have an audio cue, which it has (the locker doors) and makes him even more useless. But I said that to show that such an obnoxious indicator is what makes dredge teleport useless even if we remove locker rng. Yoy are right unlike those killers sprintrap still has his ranged attack, that would not mean his tp will not be telegraphed and by consequence pointless. One thing does not cancel the other one, you can have a semi decent killer with some mechanics on their kit which are pointless, example: unknowns movement speed slow with direct hits, the killer is still solid, but that part of the power is so useless its not even noticeable.
Sprintrap can move around the map all he wants if you can just prerun 10 seconds before he appears he might as well be chess metchant as the only thing he can do is quick the gen or just hold w 20 seconds to catch up with the survivor, yayy alien gameplay in action.
I mean they can change it, at this point im sure they will, but if they do there is NO room to even consider him a stealth killer he is just a worse huntress with a gimmick mechanic added so that he can kick far gens.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947721#Comment_3947721
It's called Counterplay. Sadako and Dredge aren't easy to dunk on because they notify survivors that they're teleporting; they're easy to dunk on because their powers are gimmicky and take too long to come into play, but they're also still better than the likes of Ghostface and Myers who have to walk from one end of the map to the other.
Not really, in the case of sadako you may be right has no one who is actually good at looping will get caught by the phasing if you hold a checkspot so condemned is her only real threat to the player. But in the case of dredge he is weak because of 1: he depens entirely on locker spawns, 2: he is louder than a live concert and on top of it mf glows, so his stealth is non existant if you have eyes and play with audio on and 3: he gives such a warning he is coming you can just prerun the second he selects a locker to tp to, and im not talking about the door slmaming when he arrives at the door, I am surprised not many players know this, but when dredge is teleporting to a locker, the handles of the door will vibrate, pretty clear to see. So that means you can prerun as soon as he selects the locker to teleport to, on top of that add the time to break the lock and chasing that survivor is just gonna throw the game.
If it wasnt funny enough, the new gamma feature, which was a very needed change also just removes nightfall from the equation, do you have a killer that can do nothing of what his kit offers and only could potentially win against people with less than 20 hours or people throwing on purpose/sandbagging.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947592#Comment_3947592
If you've been paying any attention at all:
Every killer with a teleport is consistent in that they have an audio cue when teleporting. Springtrap breaks this established consistency. If you cannot see the door panel, you have no way of knowing if Springtrap is using the door or not.
An audio cue wouldn't make Spingtrap garbage. What it would do is make him consistent with other killers that have similar abilities.
Without the doors, Springtrap would be an M1 Killer with a ranged attack. Without her tvs, Sadako would be an M1 killer. Without lockers, Dredge would be an M1 killer. Etc. Etc. Teleports are extremely powerful map traversal tools. They have map-wide directional audio cues for this exact reason.
Even with a teleport and map traversal both dredge and sadako are easy to just dunk on. Maybe springtrap can still be decent because of the proyectile, but map movility is nothing if you can just prerun the killer or loop them until next anniversary event, which is definetly the case with the likes of sadako and dredge.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947691#Comment_3947691
But teleporting right on top of survivors with no warning isn't "stealth." It's just cheap hits. It's not like you snuck up on an unsuspecting survivor due to your awesome stealth… you just silently teleported three feet from them and got a free hit because they literally had no chance to react in time. You say that "survivors should just pay attention" on gens, and that we're trying to cater to 10 hour Dwights that can't pay attention, but I have 1200 hours in this game and I sure as hell can't hear that door even when I'm listening for it. The generator drowns it out. And if the access panel isn't facing the gen… you're just a free hit. And free hits are never fun. That's why so many people hate the Ghoul.
ST's axe has like a 30m range compared to Xeno's 4.6, and can hit over tiles that Xeno could never dream of, and Xeno has one of the best anti-loop hits in the game. I think Springtrap will be fine if survivors can get a little distance when ST teleports right on top of them.
And I'd say that Spirit > Dracula, but that's just me. Spirit can attack out of her phase, Dracula has a 2 second cooldown before he can swing, and the swap between third and first person is often too jarring to get that fast hit. They're not really comparable besides the fact that they can only see scratch marks.
Yeah idk prob being a fnaf fan does make me very bias, I just dont want ST to end up in the horrid category of sadako and the like, but the proyectile attack might be enough to make him be decent even if the teleport becomes bad.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947660#Comment_3947660
Why is your response to something not being a free guaranteed hit, is "man this killer is going to be awful!!! have fun with dash slop!!"
Like??? Brotha it's a tp with no cooldown that can't be turned off by survivors. It's already better off that alone, let alone the fact he's a ranged killer on top of it lmao.
Frankly its just the fact that he could be a cool type of stealth killer (one that for once is not a joke) but people are adamant in just making him a worse huntress. And frankly yeah why would you want to play as him if his tp alerta the whole map that is being used? His axe has low range so prerunning when you hear the alert will just make his gameplay the amazing fun that is xeno gameplay: get out of tunnel and hold W for 30 seconds cuz the survivors had a 3 day notice you will arrive.
I dont want him to be part of those club of killers who are just good against players who are bad at the game, but it does seem that he will be destined to that spot, I really wanted this to be a cool chapter but it does seem its just back to unknown, at least he can actually give a good fight against decent players.
And yes this is absolutelly a personal prefference, its jus sad that we are making every killer that is not dashslop cater to the 10 hour dwight that cannot pay attention while repairing a gen, but you have ghoul swinging around unstopped getting free hits from 2 maps away, blight crossing the map in 7 seconds, dracula being spirit but better in every way and nurse literally existing and its just peachy, but the second we get a killer that is not dash and can actually be cool, have a high skillcap and be able to go toe to toe with good players, nah it needs to be fixed, we need another dredge/sadako/demo who will just pubstomp and is just a joke for anyone who can use checkspots and has audio on.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947653#Comment_3947653
Unknown has a very limited amount of tp's he can have plus survivors can straight up remove his TP's.
Singularity needs LoS to a marked survivor with a cam, and on top of that… emp's exist. I'm not talking about just him shooting the survivor himself, when I'm talking about tp's cause to me that's more of a chase power and less of a tp like the one we're speaking with, with springtrap and all of them.
Let me try and word it better. He has the best crossmap TP system.
- Zero cooldown
- No map wide directional audio cue
- Door placements can lead to free guaranteed hits
- He comes out of his TP extremely fast so just the audio of the door opening isn't enough to actually make any meaningful distance
- Survivors can't physically turn off his TP. Unlike dredge who can get his lockers locked, singularity can have his cams emp'd, demo can have his portals destroyed, and sadako has quite literally one of the worst TP cooldowns with survivors turning the TV's off.
And even with all of that singularity and uninown are still wayyy better killers than springtrap. Also we are forgetting springtrap is the only killer who lets survivors tp across the map too. Meaning good players can use them to unhook without making themselves visible to him.
Idk why people want to make him like sadako or demo, which are just jokes ahainst any player thats not new/throwing on purpose, but if thats what the playerbase wants its clear they absolutelly deserve their ghouls and dash killer slop.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947631#Comment_3947631
Stealth killers shouldn't have ranged attacks and the best TP in the game. That's all it is really.
The range attack is a valid argument, but springtrap is in no way the best tp out there when singularity and unknown exists. Those tps are actually powerfull, they are a danger to be faced, not a glorified surprised that only works if the player is doing something else in a second monitor like what dredge, sadako, demo, xeno and freddy have.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947592#Comment_3947592
No… ambient sounds going away is not the same as a map wide DIRECTIONAL audio cue. Ambient sound going away just lets people know he's teleporting, it does not indicate at all as to where not only that it's hilariously easy to miss out on the ambient sound going away when you have a gen blasting in your ear.
Literally all of the things you listed as "tell" signs aren't actual tell signs. He comes out of the door too fast for you to be able to react to the door audio alone, it's a guaranteed hit. That is not healthy. Especially when he has a ranged attack. Springtrap has completely powercrept xeno out of the game, there's no reason to ever play xeno again other than "yippee, I get to play as the alien" but in terms of strength and gameplay, he's flat out better in every way.
Other stealth killers don't have the best TP in the game and a ranged attack. It's not the same, you can't compare him to other stealth killers.
I mean if you give a stealth killer a global directional sound cue that is NOT a stealth killer (at least to players who use audio). But as I have read so far I think he is definetly gonna get one added or a big neon sign in the door he comes out with, its true however they said they didnt wanted him to be a stelath killer so they would not be backtracking anyway. Hope they at least leave the axe as it is, seeing as the two got addons got clapped, if they somehow nerf that he would just be a sad recreation of demo that has even less potential to do anything against sentient players.
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@Boobookittymeow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947612#Comment_3947612
I am a bit deaf, I have listened for it, I can't tell. I can tell sadako's metal grinding sound but have a much harder time with springtrap's non noise
Its a lack of noise, so if you are a bit deaf yes its BS and you probably cannot detect it, altho I suspect he is supposed to have a noise and thats why the ambient sounds get muffled. If thats the case then wed have to wait.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947605#Comment_3947605
Who knows? I think there's supposed to be an audio cue for the doors, too, but I think it's bugged. There's no way they thought, "A slight whooshing noise as the door opens is ample enough warning for a teleport that drops ST directly on top of a survivor."
I mean a global ambient noise occlusion while he is walking in the office is pretty clear imo, but maybe a sound is meant to play and it is bugged and only the sound occlusion is happening. In that case it checks out as in a stream they said he was not supposed to be a stealth killer, and if he has that audio of course we would not be able to sneak on players, so yeah I actually think he was supposed to have one and right now it is just not playing, cuz why on earth would you want to have global sound occlusion and not add a sound there to be more pronounced?
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I mean yeah, demos tp is pretty much useless if you are not 3 genning as no sentient being will be surprised by a demo teleport cuz as you said its is beyod telegraphed. Also a PSA the global tp cue for springtrap is not a faint noise like what you imply, when he is using his tp all ambient sounds get muffled, thats how you know he is using the tp, hope that helps you when you face him.
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Yeah, we should also remove the undetectable, and make him slow after exiting the door, maybe also a map wide notification, wait he has one already, so maybe a tp cooldown, 60 seconds each time he uses a door. I am actually distraught at how people are complaining of what essentially is a B tier killer.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947601#Comment_3947601
What? Survivors are supposed to be able to interact with the doors. They can't due to many game breaking bugs. The killer honestly needs killswitched.
I mean doubt they will do it as it is the most popular chapter ever introduced to the game, but bhvr should be working right now on a fix to these bugs and more for example the carry speed one. Like this didnt happen in ptb how can they drop the ball so hard in two weeks?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947555#Comment_3947555
Tested both, Hawkins was pretty consistent. Only time it would spawn on a different floor was the tunnel room. That room always spawns a gen upstairs and a teleporter downstairs.
Midwich could spawn teleporters on the stairwell, which... I guess could go either way. After about 6 times loading in, I only saw 1 where the spawn was on the wrong floor to the gen.
All in all, it was pretty consistent where the teleporters were on the same floor and roughly 8-10 meters from the gen.
You tested xeno on rpd?, cuz I play that mf a lot and his tps are aleays on different floors to the gens.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947593#Comment_3947593
They can, but it breaks your audio for the rest of the game. Right now, survivors can't interact with the doors at all without losing directional audio
Then bhvr need to step up, the invisible bug and that has to be fixed asap. However doesnt mean that once fix survivors will lose the ability to do so. We will have xeno 2.0 where he got nerfed because the devs could not be asked to ship a chapter without game brekaing bugs.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947586#Comment_3947586
No, survivors can't use the doors. It breaks their audio, remember? And, I'm sorry, but 10 seconds of aura reading isn't worth sitting on cameras for thirty seconds trying to find him. Especially since he can just… undo it by going through another door.
Wait, survivors cannnot go though the doors and use the tp to exit through another door?, im gonna check the power to see how it works again.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947586#Comment_3947586
No but every other teleport doesn't also let the killer come out with barely any animation to it. Xeno is slow to come out of his tunnel. Sadako is slow to come out of her TV. Demo is slow out of his portals. Springtrap… springs out borderline instantly.
This makes door spawns super volatile where if you can't see the keypad flashing as an earlier warning, the door audio alone is straight up not enough to create any sort of distance and it's just a free hit if the springtrap isn't asleep.
Ambient sounds comopletely going away is also not enough of an indicator? Like I am genuinly baffled at this, do people expect sneak attacks to be announced? Dont get me wrong an indicator is needed for counterplay, but seeing as you have 1: door flashing if you have LoS of the door, 2: door opening sound, 3: springtraps foosteps that take effort to not be able to hear them and 4: map wide ambient noice going quiet when he uses his tp, what else does he need? A big red neon sign showing the door he will come out of? Like no wonder bhvr only does dash killers now, people are too used to stealth killers being a joke and it seems they like it that way.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947577#Comment_3947577
Nobody is saying that they can't hear the footsteps. This is a strawman.
He doesn't make footstep noises while teleporting. We're not complaining about the Undetectable, we're complaining about the fact that his teleport breaks established game rules of warning survivors when it is used. Literally every other teleport in the game follows this rule.
Every other teleport doesnt let survivors also use it and doesnt grat aura reading on a stealth killer no? So you can even use his power against him to shourtcut a hook save, that should be changed too if we want him to fall in line with the subpar teleport we are used to.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947565#Comment_3947565
If you can hear him after he teleports, he's already on top of you.
What we're asking for is a clear warning, that can be clearly seen or heard from any direction, that Springtrap is imminently arriving.
So like a demo sound? The one that makes his tp completely pointless for any sneak attacks and is only usefull for 3 genning?
I mean that could remove the stealth part of the power, but seeing as that is what people desire, let em do it, give him a notification map wide of where he is teleporting, maybe the doors can start playing an alarm once he selects them or idk the aura can turn bright red, at that point the doors are just a mid mobility resource. I just hope people somehow do not decide the axe is somehow op.
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@Abbzy said:
Its the door soung buged? But trueth is anlien is loud when he goes out of tunnel, sadoko, dredge even demogorgan is super loud and makes sound on all map when he uses tp, fact is door is quiete and on top of that springtrap is invisible for second which deosnt help much (you can see his eyes and knife).
The invisible studd needs fixed and is sad the devs someone created that as in otb it wasnt the case. But all the other teleports you mentioned are useles. Maybe its because they cannot surprise anyone if they are using audio?
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@thrive2survive said:
They could've easily asked Scott for a sound to know when Springtrap is using the doors. The sound that comes to mind is when someone is in the vents in FNAF 2.
I mean seeing as people somehow cannot hear the footsteps right now as loud as they are, that vent audio is not gonna be enough. According to the forums right now an appropiate sound cue that is detectable should be mangles static playing full volume before a tp.
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947072#Comment_3947072
yep ive noticed it but still there was 2 doors on ptb him opening and closing the door, now there is only the visual indicator and the closing. The visual one is good and people are learning but with the backwalled doors he will still hit you with invisible bug.
In the end they have to fix the door spawn or correct the audio + invisible thingy, as streamers are saying "use him before the fix" he will be heavely hit after the fix going back to the B tier
The invisible bug has to go ASAP. Saddly we are gonna have a xeno situation again where they shipped a bugged killer, people complain because of course the bug is obnoxious and the devs just clap that killer and they just become kinda pointless. But alas we still have to wait and see.
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@Boobookittymeow said:
the door is around the corner partially masking the sound or it is so close to the gen that it is a free hit unless you are right by a pallet or window and sometimes it is facing away so you can't see the panel. If it is a gen in more of a deadzone and you don't have overcome you may get 2 tapped.
And while you are staring at the door you also have to swivel and look all around since they have 20-30 seconds of undetectable so they might come out of another door. They make noise walking but it is deafened depending on walls. I was in shack and one came up from behind to the window without me noticing since I was really focused on the one in the shack with me.
Its also odd that there isn't a lullaby like sadako has when she is undetectable. Pig has to give up speed and a quick attack for her silence for the chance of getting a grab, and she has to walk there, up hill both ways in the snowAnd both of those killers are miserable/a joke, why would bhvr repeat past mistakes and make another stealth killer who announces to everyone where his stealth attack will go? They tried that with dredge and buddy cannot surprise anyone who plays dbd with audio on.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947072#Comment_3947072
Oh, great! That means that every door will face towards the generator so that little touch pad can be seen by players, right? Oh, wait.
If you cannot hear springtraps foosteps which are louder than a car crash idk what to tell you. Like he has a visual indicator with the screen, an audio one when the map sounds get muffled, and an audio one that is loud af when he approaches you. At this point we are asking for dredge levels of stealth which is to say no stealth at all against players who play with headphones.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947266#Comment_3947266
Just for the sake of testing, can you give me a map example
Mideich and hawkings, rpd too as xeno you can get a tunnel exit on a different floor to the closest generator.
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@DeathByBJ224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947273#Comment_3947273
you just named features that only benefit killers. Nothing about this game is fun when playing surivior.
So true, they should add new accesibility for survivors to give them a fair playing field. I have an idea, what about a visual heatbeat, it also lets you see lullabys and it has an indicator to see the intensity of the heatbeat. Good idea since the devs have not implemented a thing for survivors since the og game. Better yet lets do so when a survivor is rescued from the hook they get a brief protection so they can get to a loop, surely the devs would never introduce this to this killer sided game.
The devs have absolutelly nerfed survivor, but to say only killers get new features is just plain wrong.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947264#Comment_3947264
Ya know, now that you mentioned it, I always find these discussions a bit, well, sad.
Not the discussion itself, but the implications of what happens depending on your favorite version of the game.
Let me explain: you, my friend, stated here that you do not want to go back to the Old DBD. I, on the other hand, would love to go back. Both of our opinions are perfectly valid, but our situations are very different.
Because you can boot up the game right now and you'll be met with a version of the game that you want to play. Which is nice. Meanwhile, I, and others who preferred things the way they used to be, literally cannot do that. We're stuck with this very same "modern DBD" until BHVR decides to release a classic modifier, if they ever do so.
It is a very unfortunate situation.
Thats actually a good point, like yeah true I got the game the way I wanted but you don't which sucks. However if you are really interested I saw somewhere on youtube a dude that could play previous versions, While I do not recall his channel the video was called: I played all versions of skullmerchant. Maybe you can ask the people who keep those classic server how the do so and if they let you play with them.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947264#Comment_3947264
What's the reverse of rose tinted glasses, because if what we have right now isn't worse, it sure as hell isn't better than what we had then.
I have played since this game released, what we have now is 100% better than before. We have accesibility, better powers, new perks and mechanics, events. Like the nostalgia for old dbd is wild, back then even looping was unfun, you just had to drop the chase if they entered an infinite, or when you saw a mori offering you just knew the game was gonna be miserable.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947259#Comment_3947259
Actually...alot of that list no longer has RNG issues. With the latest update, killer items like Sadako's TVs take priority over chests. This was an issue with her BEFORE insisting that chest spawns could cause her TVs to spawn annoyingly far from gens, but not anymore.
I mean she still has rng in multifloor maps and maps where tvs can spawn facing an entire wall or tl wall instead of the gen, same as xeno.
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While yes bhvr has done a lot of killer buffs since the inception of the game. To my knowledge, aside from trickster, no killer has recieved a base movement speed increase (I may be wrong tho).
And hell no I dont want to go back to old dbd, with infinites, instant moris, maps that looked like dogwater, instant gens, perma sabo and og 5 blink nurse. That was just awfull.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947148#Comment_3947148
Doesn't work when the majority of Doors are out of sight or facing away from Generators.
So the doors are out of sight but you have aura on them, and the killer has to turn if they are facing away. Meaning you A:know where the killer will come from and B: the killer will have to turn around and alert you with the loud af footsteps. Where is the issue? Like if you can see the door you will not get surprised if you have eyes, and if the door is not visible you have a loud af audio cue to run.
Are we seriously expecting a tp on par with demo or dredge who absolutelly cannot surprise a sentient being because they announce their arrival with 7 bussiness days in advance?
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947121#Comment_3947121
Except if the door is around a corner where being around a wall completely drowns out the noise the door makes. Or if the keypad is just… facing away from the gen so you physically can't see? lol.
The killer right now is entirely based around door RNG. That's not a good design.
If thats the case you still have the loud steps telling you where he is and also have aura reading on the door to let you know where he is coming from. Like idk what more do people need. Like a formal written letter that the killer will tp to your gen?, like demo already does that and his tp is as surprising as a planned wedding and as effective as using tic tacs for pneumonia.
Also, if RNG killers are bad design which to an extend I agree, springtrap is not an isolated issue, the following killers have RNG into their tps:
Dredge
Xeno
Sadako
And the following killers have RNG dependant mechanics:
Vecna
Pig
Plague
Wesker
Nemesis
Trapper
Pyramid head
So seeing as 1/4 of killers in this game have to have this, then this is all just bad character design (which if you agree to then yeah you are consistent, nothing to argue if thats the case) or we are just complaining about springtrpa because he is just the new shinny toy thats aout right now.
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He does, when he selects a door to tp to, the touchpad of the door he will come out of will start flickering (well actually changing bright intesity). So he gives you a long warning if you are next to the door he selected. Imo this is enough of a warning, between his footsteps being louder than a train and you getting a more than 4 second headstart with the flickering, there is no way you can be surprised by him.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946105#Comment_3946105
Because it feels bad to play against. That's why teleports "are so bad." Someone teleporting on top of you with no warning and getting a free hit feels bad. That's why every other killer that teleports to gens has a loud sound notification. Onryo has a global sound notification, and Xeno screeches as they start exiting the tunnel, a two second animation, that gives survivors time to start booking it. Onryo can also have her tvs shut down, and turrets give survivors a 40m warning that Xeno is coming.
Springtrap has no exit notification. The door opens and he's just… there. Right on top of you. Ready to swing. And even if you're running SB and start booking it the moment the door starts to open, he can still catch you with his axe or even a lunge attack, depending on how close to the gen he is.
It feels bad, and there's no real counter play. Even when they get rid of the invisibility bug, he'll still be silently teleporting right on top of you with no warning.
Ok so funny enough I found out yesterday springtrap HAS a notification lmao. So when he delects a door and is traveling the office the touch pad of the door he will come out of starts flickering in intensity. So actually yes he has an indicator and its a long one at that, making your assumption not only wrong but also making springtrap a mid teleport at best now.
Trully a bhvr sponsored moment right there.
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946067#Comment_3946067
i understand where you are coming from, but his tp has no cooldown, so basically you have free hits all around if you don't fix the animation or the spawns, kinda like old wraith when he could uncloak so fast he just strolled around hitting and leaving without a chase. RN you can spam tp in two progressed gens with bad door spawns and get free downs.
A proof that his tp is bugged is that the pink addon that blocks barricades activate way before he actually comes out of the door kinda proving the point that his tp isn't working as intended.
If it is not working as inteded, by all means fix it (the invisible HAS to go tho,thats just a bug and a problematic one at that). However I would not mind a tp that is actually useful for once, like to this date I do not understand why dbd ambush/stealth mechanics love to not just give subtle indicators but a big neon red sign that says : "you will be attacked within the next 15 seconds, act surprised" like it honestly is kind of absurd. I understand you need a counterplay, but for example demos portals can be sealed, his tp also take like 5 hours to finish, why does he need the global cue? Sadako is just an m1 killer, the least threathening thing in this game, and her tp also takes like a minute and her cooldown is horrendous, you can also disable it. Freddys tp is beyond telegraphed and you can also increase its cooldown by using the clocks, even then he actually has some chase tools so I will give him that. Xenos tp is funny, if you have a turret you will know where he is 100% of the time, and prerun when you hear the beeping get closer, absolute dogwater tp. Hell even dredge gives the biggest telltale he will ambush you with the vibrating locker handles.
Like why are tps in this game so bad, honestly prob the only tps that are scary to verse are singularity and unknown, those are quite the only ones that are actually dangerous.
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While the invisible bug should be fixed asap. You literally described a counter in your own post to door tps. Like are we too used to tps being so useless because they give a 5 bussiness day notice like sadako,demo, freddy and xeno? Like the door still sounds and his footsteps are as silent as a carnival.
Also mind you you see the aura of the door so when you hear that if the door is not that close to a gen, which happens due to spawns being bad sometimes. You can just know where he is coming from.
Like look I will cave in with things like ghoul being obnoxious and needing to be nerfed, but this is just wanting to be not able to get surprised at all by a tp, like you have the cues, and if you have a hearing problem you can just as you say get away from doors after a hook and prerun if you see the door open.
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@KueenKara said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945336#Comment_3945336
I was playing today and I never heard the door open
Check your audio, is loud af when they do so.
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@FirstDay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943015#Comment_3943015
I actually agree with you, but you should never use those perks as an example when talking about a perk that has never been at that level of oppression at launch. Minus STB. Botany is and never will be a cataclysmic problem like any of those were.
Oh no I agree botany is not even close to this, I was just pointing out saying that a single perk cannot impact the game is bogus, because it has happened before multiple times.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943015#Comment_3943015
Yes, but I don't think we can generalize here, each of these cases is different from the other. And Botany, even if buffed, isn't close to their level.
That said, I don't think Shoulder the Burden fits the list. Don't even remember the last time I saw it.
Shoulder the burden is legit one of the strongest perks ever concieved, however its counter is people are just not good enough, its like having a flamethrower but you have to be able to assemble it, of course for most people is just a bunch of junk with no use. Watching comp players use it in public lobbies and absolutelly decimate people is amazing. And yes those players do scrub the floor with most pub players, but thats the fun part, they can even scrub the floor against comp killers with it.
Like the power of Shoulder is just so even balanced by the fact the average player will never be able to use it effectively, but again the average player manages to lose to a joke killer like trapper so really its kind of a interest design? Like a very good perk but you have to be good to use it, so it filters most of the users out and you see it a few times.