notyarbllewe
notyarbllewe
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@JonOzzie16 said:
I love them now. I save it for the last gen no matter what. They are way more dangerous the longer you can hold them. Very effective in a 3 gen scenario.
I am in the middle of your response: I dislike BNPs (and toolboxes in general) as they still unfairly speed up gens in my opinion, but I also dislike tryhard playstyles like purposeful tight 3-genning as killer (as well as hardcore genrushing), and so the only time I'd really ever use a BNP is if the killer is 3-genning/playing very unfairly or unfun.
I focus solely on fun in DbD, not winning.
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@DavidHypnos said:
It’s a nerf overall. Hitting difficult skill checks on switch is not always easy. If they want it to not be a nerf they should either remove that aspect or make it kick in whenever a survivor hits a great skill check. I think the latter would be fair. Before you could miss both skill checks and still get a boost.
The whole thing they did was try to give it a nerf, but it wasn't actually a true nerf. In my opinion (and in a lot of opinions), the BNP was always too strong, allowing survivors to rush some gens in no time. It'd give the killer a very unfair and unfun game, especially if they do it at the beginning.
I solely focus on having fun and playing fairly, so I never bring stuff that speeds up gens in survivor and I only bring Deadlock as killer just to prevent genrushing (as well as Corrupt when being a setup killer like Trapper). I never bring tryhard stuff like BNPs or extra powerful slowdowns. I find toolboxes and multiple slowdowns unfun playstyles.
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@Crowman said:
I wouldn't really call it a nerf.
BNPs lost their burst potential (no longer can an entire gen be completed in seconds with 4 BNPs), but are now stronger into defensive setups as the gen loses max charges needed to complete.
It's a sidegrade.
That is EXACTLY why I posted this poll.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I agree, they are rarely ever used for any reason that is based on good intentions.
That being said, I will use a Lery's as Nurse just to make it hard for myself, or an Autohaven or MacMillan if I am getting bad maps over and over, as I feel those are fairly neutral balance wise.
But yeah, I would not complain if offerings were retired altogether
I wish it was easier to get Coal Tower. I think that is likely the fairest map in the game, so it'd be nice if either they make maps better like that one or bring you there more.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486773#Comment_3486773
For me it's equal trade. If you think it stronger, that's fine. I am totally OK with removing map offering so long as whole lobby is invisible (or keep current status)
We have our opinions but thank you for talking more respectfully; most in my threads get angry at me.
They even yelled because I said to remove map offerings rather than fix maps, though I think it was obvious that I still want maps fixed with the fact that I mentioned them being messed up.
Too many people want to get angry for one reason or another.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485399#Comment_3485399
There are many reasons to use the Offerings maps:
-Choose my favorite map
-get a trophy
-Experience playing the new maps
-Choosing balanced maps to improve my skill
-Build experience on some maps
-Experience unbalanced maps to get a difficult match and challenge myself to win
-Choose a map that I will not visit for a long time
-Characters experience in their maps
and others
Your only reason for removing it is that you don't like being forced to go to a map chosen by another player
Knowing that you do not know from the first place which map the game will send you to
So there is no compulsion because you did not choose the map and the game will send you to a random map, then another player came and chose a map and then called it compulsory😑
Half of your reasons are what I find unfair: experience. I find it unfair to force the killer (or even survivors) to the map that is best for you; it gives the team a much harder game, and people like me only want fair play. When survivors or killers (with Myers being weak, Scratched Mirror Myers is an exception) forces the other to the map that is best for them, it is essentially giving themselves an unfair buff, and I do not find that okay.
Another thing, if you don't choose maybe Midwich nor Dead Dawg, no realm is entirely fair. Those two probably are in the fairest of realms, and they are the only maps in both of their realms. Just about every other realm has at least a bad map.
The most fair map in the game is probably Coal Tower, but that is only one of many maps in its realm, and so you can't really choose it.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486197#Comment_3486197
Ok. Remove map offerings, but remove whole visibility for lobby. Map offerings are the other side of coin that killer knows stuff about survivors, can see their items, can change build, possibly can see hours played...
I feel like guaranteeing the killer is put to a bad map is much stronger than seeing some stuff about the survivors, but I get your point. However, the killer is only able to see the items themselves and not their strength, so that is definitely not quite as powerful as it could be.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486192#Comment_3486192
They COULD but they SHOULDN’T. I like map offerings. I don’t always play them but sometimes I’m in the mood for a certain realm or I want to visit one I haven’t seen in a while. I also like to play certain ones depending on the season. Around Halloween I like Haddonfield, Yamaoka Estate, and more and of course Ormond is great during Christmastime. I wish we had more maps for these reasons. I’m sorry you don’t like them, but it sounds to me like you just don’t like most maps in general and removing map offerings isn’t going to help you.
I get your point, but I just see way too many tryhards around my area, often bringing me to the worst of maps. We have our opinions, but I'm biased against map offerings through facing too many tryhards as well as playing fairly.
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@Gandor said:
My group will use ALL the map offerings one after the other, with exception to lery's, midwitch, RPD, toba's and shattered. These offerings are means to a, not repeat the same map twice b, dodge those 5 realms we don't enjoy. Same build on all the maps (maybe with exception to saloon - I remove saboteur there as the perk is totally useless on that map)
People have said what they could do is reverse the purpose of map offerings, making it so they prevent a map from coming. The bad part of this, though, is that tryhards to could easily choose to not bring the few good killer maps, increasing the chance of the ones they love. There are too many survivor-sided (or messed up entirely) maps, and so this wouldn't be quite as good for killer.
If the devs can't fix the maps, I find it best to remove map offerings. You can't say it's fairer to be forced to the worst of maps rather than unluckily getting put there.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485386#Comment_3485386
Just bring your own map offering. Compared to a lot of things in this game this seems like such a non-issue.
It's easier to remove them entirely than compete for them.
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@Nikolaifly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485386#Comment_3485386
I mean some people just like certian maps and want to go to them, not everyone is nerdy and wants to go to the best map. I personally bring shattered bottle almost anytime i get one bc I love the map. I personally find it fair and super fun. It seems like your just salty bc good players are bringing you to maps you personally feel are survivor sided. If thats not your reason, then theres literally no other reason. Most people use map offerings for fun.
Where I live, a lot keep bringing the worst of map alongside Brand New Parts and stuff. Not sure if that is a fair thing to do.... They often bring builds that match well with it.
I can't wait for BNPs to be nerfed. I'm not a tryhard, and I never do things on either side like tunneling or bringing strong items.
Just the other day, people brought me to Springwood and two used anti-hook builds, constantly running to the middle of the school to make it super annoying and a waste of time to hook them. It wasn't fun.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/383815/map-offerings-need-to-be-removed
Imagine thinking those are the only good killer maps and not acknowledging that certain maps are good on killers and other bad on them. Lery's and RPD is pretty good on stealth killers, but Lery's is bad on Blight. The Borgo is great for Huntress because many walls have holes in them or are not high enough. The game is great on Doctor. Indoor maps are great for SM. Maps with more than one floors are bad for Artist. Open maps are great for Hillbilly but can be difficult to traverse for M1 killers.
Can we stop pretending killers can only play in two maps and have advantage?
Those only support my point that map offerings aren't good, then/
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@Boons123 said:
Do you think that by removing it, the maps will balance on their own?
The game keeps sending you to those maps, so you haven't solved the problem, you're just putting salt on the wound
Yes, I want maps to be balanced over anything, but still, even if they were, it feels unfair when the survivors FORCE you to the worst of maps rather than having a chance of getting there. As bad as a map is, it feels fairer for the game to put you there than tryhards forcing you there.
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@TheRealConsent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484840#Comment_3484840
Okay and what's your point? I should play 4/30+ stealth killers to have 4 good maps instead of 2? Or maybe the 3 ranged killers for 3 good maps instead of 2?
There is 1 killer and 4 survivors. Obviously survivors will bring more map offerings.
Good maps for every killer:
- Midwich, Dead Dawg
Good maps against most killers:
- Eyrie, Borgo, Garden, Game, Lery's, Red Forest, Asylum, Ormond, RPD, Toba, Coldwind.
You see the imbalance here?
And this is without pointing out the fact that RPD, Eyrie, Garden, Borgo and Toba were released back-to-back, and are now boosted.
You can always argue that Game is good for Nurse because of verticality and small size.
You can always argue that Ormond is good for Singularity.
You can always argue that Coldwind is good for Huntress.
Wow, a few killers have advantages in VERY specific maps. That means the maps are fine!
- You, probably.
The maps SO need to be better balanced. Each one recently has only gotten worse and worse, focusing more on the beauty over balance each time.
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@Seraphor said:
This very topic demonstrates just how subjective and variable map strength is.
Good maps against most killers: - Eyrie, Borgo, Garden, Game, Lery's, Red Forest, Asylum, Ormond, RPD, Toba, Coldwind.
There are many killers that excel on Game, Lery's, RPD and Toba. And even most of the maps which are deemed to be 'survivor sided' and nowhere near bad enough that killers can't play on them. All maps are viable, and I have slaughtered survivors as the weakest of killers on the most survivor sided maps, just as I have been slaughtered by survivors on killer sided maps.
Ultimately, if you ended up on any of the worst maps through shear chance, you could play the map just fine. But if you ended up on a map via a map offering... what has changed exactly?
Strong SWFs can still end up on survivor sided maps without an offering, and you can still beat uncoordinated survivor teams on survivor sided maps. The difference here is the skill level of the survivor team, not the map offering.
Did you lose to the highly coordinated SWF who played a Garden of Joy offering because they played a map offering? Or did did you lose to them because they're a highly coordinated SWF?
The issue is not map offerings, the issue isn't even mostly that maps are unbalanced, because that level of imbalance is grossly overestimated. The issue is differences in skill, and the knee-jerk reaction to blame a loss on a factor outside of your control.
Map offerings offer a slight advantage to the side who plays it, and that's what offerings are meant for. They're not really any more powerful than reagents or oaks, or potentially even shrouds (if they worked correctly for the side who played it), they're altering the playing field in your favour, slightly.
Practically my whole point is that it just feels more unfair when they force you to a map good for them. I want people to play fairly. Map balancing is the worst thing right now, but even if maps were balanced equally for everyone, I find it a little dumb for people to bring you to just where they want to go, sometimes having better skill specifically there.
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@Nikolaifly said:
Why are you complaining about MAP OFFERINGS rather than MAP BALANCING? I personally only bring map offerings for silly plays like the hole build in the ward. I get some survivors will bring it to the game so they can 5 gen or whatever, but killers can also bring it to maps their good on. You clearly dont play any survivor and it shows. map offerings are completely fine and you are complaining about the wrong thing.
I've played a lot of survivor recently. Did you not realize that I mentioned how bad maps are? If maps were a lot more balanced, map offerings should still be nonexistent. People shouldn't be able to force the other team to where they want to go.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462326#Comment_3462326
They do have "boots on the ground" but I think they are just too selective about what feedback they take unless its completely unanimous.
With the maps, I've honestly gave up with them being balanced.
With the Q&A thing, someone asked about maps, and they said they are learning more and more as they make them, and, funny enough, the maps keep getting worse and worse IMO.
Another thing, in one of the anniversary quotes, one said something similar to this: "Always go for the beauty points."
It makes total sense as some of the maps look super cool nowadays, but their balance....
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@SkeletalElite said:
Her high kill rate is because less skilled players suck at playing against stealth killers and she also has a teleport for map mobility which means average players don't keep up with her pressure. It's not the slug condemn build carrying her win rate. The average sadako player is not using that build. This means BHVR will likely never buff her signficantly because any buffs are pretty much targeted at a minority of the player base and would make the killer feel oppressive to the silent casual majority.
I do agree regardless that this should happen. But BHVR wont do it.
Sadako does still have a fair kill rate in the top 1%, I think. And the build probably still increases the KR a bit, as, with skill and the right perks, Sadako REALLY pops up on the tier list when using it. Besides, the build should be fixed; it's boring to face.
About Sadako needing a buff, she definitely deserves one for who she is. I mean, outside of the game, she's one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, killer in our ranks. Like, her dad might literally be a god. Being one of our weakest is quite offensive to her.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
the pallet breaks when the survivor drops it. respect pallet->pallet breaks ->free hit.
True, and there is the ability to decrease stun duration, but with skill, then they can still frustrate you. The professional loopers can actually abuse this extremely well.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457978#Comment_3457978
Tunnelling is a hard problem to fix since if a killer wants to tunnel even if we had old DS they are still going to do it. The best we can do is make sure they at least throw the match to do it, which if a killer does hardcore focus a guy down non strategically then he will most likely lose. Also yh maps are bad but we can just hope that someday they realise the error of their ways. Honestly the base game loops are fine its just some maps having too many god pallets or chaining tiles together is the main issue there. A jungle jim by itself is fine, but a jungle gym into a 4 lane into shack is not.
I think they should pause their work for a bit or at least slow it down, switching a lot of their people to talking with us more to learn how to actually make fair maps, among other fair things. Focusing more on balancing everything would make the game feel much smoother, having to worry less about tunneling as well as genrushing, things like the Brand New Part reworked.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457989#Comment_3457989
That's because someone in charge of "game stats" or "game fun" at BHVR thinks 50:50 ratio of survivor to killer wins is what should happen. It should be fair, not tweaked to 50:50, even if it means skewing that ratio either way. It's just someone's simple way of making it easier for survivors. "Did we get to a 56% killer ratio? Lets just add 20 more pallets." Now killers have to run an anti-pallet perk rather than tell survivors, "it's time to try some new strategies, here's some suggestions."
I think BVHR in general does an awesome job with this game, it's a lot of fun despite some my bits of whining around some mechanics faults. But the people that plan the overall direction of the game need to stop kowtowing to the survivors. Just because something is hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game.
Not sure if I posted it a second time (editing my comment then saving it possibly deletes it, and it's quite stupid), but I entirely agree with you. Sadako and Trapper are two examples of this, as, despite being two of the weakest killers in the game, they are not getting fair buffs due to their kill rates. With Sadako being a top killer likely due to her condemn build and Trapper having the "proper" kill rate probably from the basement strategy, they seem stronger than they are in BHVR's point of view.
They have to buff their basekits while nerfing their strategies.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457981#Comment_3457981
I never said that I tunneled. all I said was its a much more consistent way to win, I dont really think anyone would argue with that. Tunneling is ALWAYS a good idea from a meta standpoint. The only reasons people dont do it is because they know how boring it is for both sides (me included in that).
I also dont think many would argue that predropping every pallet is a good idea. Tunneling and W gaming are far different because one is a strat for an easy win, and the other is a strat that stops you from going down early game but ends up causing way more downs later. predropping every single pallet, including ones at jungle gyms and shack and near easily chainable strong tiles, is just throwing. You could easily milk 10-20s out of each at minimum, but instead people choose to get 1 second out of one and move onto the next. Rapidly creating deadzones purposefully is not equal to eliminating 25% of power from the survivors.
On the worst of maps that are highly pallet-stuffed, pre-dropping can really be a very big problem for killers. If they try to burn through the many pallets wasted, the other survivors would just speed through the gens as the killer does so. If they break most pallets by the time the gens are finished, they'd have to slug everyone to get a reward from that, and that would just be unfun and not easy at all. It's nearly impossible to win if there are still 4 survivors as the exit gates are powered.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457989#Comment_3457989
That's because someone in charge of "game stats" or "game fun" at BHVR thinks 50:50 ratio of survivor to killer wins is what should happen. It should be fair, not tweaked to 50:50, even if it means skewing that ratio either way. It's just someone's simple way of making it easier for survivors. "Did we get to a 56% killer ratio? Lets just add 20 more pallets." Now killers have to run an anti-pallet perk rather than tell survivors, "it's time to try some new strategies, here's some suggestions."
I think BVHR in general does an awesome job with this game, it's a lot of fun despite some my bits of whining around some mechanics faults. But the people that plan the overall direction of the game need to stop kowtowing to the survivors. Just because something is hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game.
I entirely agree with you, and it's the same with Sadako, Trapper, and multiple others. Sadako and Trapper are two of the (very sadly, as I am an Onryō partial-main) weakest killers in the game, but they don't want to buff them as they have the "proper" or strong kill rates. Sadako is one of the top killers in most MMR as they probably all use the nearly-OP and very unfun condemn slugging build (unlike me), while Trapper is also a decent killer likely because of the basement strategy, and both have to use very strong add-ons.
The Devs have to buff the killers' basekits while finding ways to nerf their absurd strategies, as well as edit the add-ons around these changes.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455105#Comment_3455105
You nailed it here - successive pallets should be less effected. Vaulting as well. Even if it's only a short cooldown. Survivors should be rewarded for effective and creative evasion, not just dropping every pallet or infinite loops.
THANK YOU. If maps continue to get pallet stuffed, this idea could help decrease problems like pre-dropping and wasting. What I want most of all, though, is for maps to be fixed in the first place. I swear, they get more and more survivor-sided with each one that comes out. Borgo and Toba? Just horrid.
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@nars said:
its not like tunneling at all, tunneling is always a good idea unless they have stacked multiple anti tunnel perks or the entire team is taking hits. and even then its sometimes worth your while.
w gaming is throwing, simple as that. It makes deadzones faster, wastes pallets that could have bled 20s or more from them, and just makes the game easier for the killer the longer it goes on. Yeah its super hard to catch the one guy but as long as hes wasting pallets catching everyone else is gonna be hella easy.
Tunneling is a good idea??? Yes, it works well, but dang is it a stupid one. I never tunnel despite being a killer main, because I don't care that much about winning and I know how unfun it is. I only want to have fun in DbD, not win, and I hope you stop tunneling if that is what you do all the time.
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@DrDucky said:
Pallet stuffed maps is an issue with the maps themselves and not a fundamental game problem, these maps should have not have a dense amount of pallets to begin with (looking at you cowshed). Therefore the suggestion of a pallet cooldown just should not be needed. (in an ideal world).
I agree. I only mentioned my idea because maps just keep getting worse and worse, more survivor-sided with each one coming out. If maps weren't so pallet stuffed and loops were more balanced, dumb things like pre-dropping wouldn't work quite as well and the game would feel much more enjoyable for killers. Obviously tunneling should be fixed as well; I'm not a hardcore killer main.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455563#Comment_3455563
I've been awake for years, self-outed Killer main. lmao
And so WHAT? That's COMP, that's 1% of the playerbase, they don't matter and 80% of Killers suck against them anyways. They always play in 4 man SWF and can make anything look broken, we're not balancing around them.
The fact that you were upvoted 4 times... ugh.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455568#Comment_3455568
Nah, I actually play Killers and have 500 hours... on just PC. I've played since Clown on console, sorry to say that people who don't agree with your low MMR opinions are not "people who never play Killer".
And tunneling is kinda meta because of fast gens as you go up the MMR bracket and M1 Killers atm. And I can say this as someone who has both DEALT and RECEIVED it. Not that this really matters and I'm not saying this specific thing to make my opinion more important than yours, I'm just shutting up your "SURVIVOR MAIN"-esque argument.
Pre-dropping makes it easy to get rid of pallets before they can even be looped. If the Survivor isn't in a SWF, they're throwing the match by pre-dropping every single pallet and turning many tiles into deadzones.
You have 500... and I have 3K. I think I know a lot more about the game than you think I do, and with how high my MMR is, there are way more tryhards than you think. I hate tunneling, but I also hate stupid survivor strategies like predropping.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455575#Comment_3455575
What genrushing problem? I haven't ran into a SWF using juicy toolboxes and BTL in more than 3 months. Otherwise it is a Killer pressure problem. I typically have no problems as Ghosty even on the horrific maps like Borgo/Garden. Maybe 1/10 games I lose, but it was because I screwed up somewhere. That means all my loses are my fault alone, and up to me to improve to prevent them in the future.
I'm sure we live different places, and so we face different people. Maybe people are more relaxed near you, but there are WAAAAAYYYY too many tryhards near me.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455579#Comment_3455579
Man I hate the chases so much right now.
It's literally more "fun" to play killers people hate to face to see an early DC because THEN and only THEN do you feel like a chases becomes viable.
I always make a basement play as early as possible for that reason too. Play lame, win game.
Fighting 3 survivors feels good, fighting 4 feels like a waste of time, when none DC I afk or dc myself cuz why play?
It really depends on their strategy. I often bring Franklin's when the group is bringing a bunch of med kits and/or toolboxes. It often puts quite a lot of pressure on them because they based their game off of absurd items.
All I try to do is balanced the game and make it fun and fair; I never care to win (unless I'm facing clear tryhards, then it honestly feels good to force them down). I never bring killer-hated stuff or survivor-hated stuff, and I never do frustrating things like tunneling or pre-dropping.
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@CatnipLove said:
Survivors hate being tunneled but killers suffer just as much because they get pallets dropped on them? Why not just make a post complaining about how strong pallet loops are?
You have a choice on how you engage with the match. If you can't get one survivor then go chase another survivor or kick a gen. You still get to play the game. Being tunneled means barely getting to play the game you waited in line for. It's not the same thing, not even close.
There are a bunch of issues for Killers, map design being one of them. Why not make a thread complaining about that instead of comparing two community issues that aren't even remotely similar?
Not sure if I'm restating it because I can't see the comment, but really, check my discussions. I talk a lot about bad maps, as well as map offerings because of that.
And yes, killers get as much of an effect from pre-dropping as survivors get from tunneling: all they can do is hold W or break like all the survivors can do is hold W and vault, with little enjoyment in chase. If they go to someone else, the survivor could just sprint away to pallets as well, doing the same thing.
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@Spectralfx said:
They are too many pallets and not enough deadzones on maps, that's the issue.
You people have no idea how often I screw up a flick on Oni due to a pallet that is literally 5 steps away from one I just broke.
In those moments I think "there's no way they put a pallet there too."
But there is, there always fu- is.
It's freaking dumb.
And with what you said in your first comment, I think my idea on how to fix this stuff COULD help if planned well. What is your opinion on it?
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455572#Comment_3455572
I am just trying to point out a logic fail in your claim that a tunneled survivor do not get to play the game they queued for.
The fact is that, camped/tunneled or not...
For either of these scenarios to happen...
A survivor need to have been chased AND downed, hence they played the game.
Now if they get downed instantly... that's on them, it's not the killer's fault if they are bad at the game.
On the other end, if we accept that a tunneled survivor didn't get to play the game, we consequently also have to accept that bully squad and gen rush squads have denied the killer the game they queued for.
It's ALWAYS a two way street
I entirely agree with all of that! The pre-dropping also works as a great example of that, IMO; like all the survivor can do is hold W because they constantly get tunneled, all the killer can do is also hold W and break when everyone keeps slamming pallets early. Neither side gets the enjoyment from the chase in those two strategies, and people often say chase is the fun part of the game.
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@mizark3 said:
What exactly is everyone's definition of 'pre-dropping' pallets? I've rewatched Killer streamer VODs against me as Survivor, and they have said I 'pre-dropped' when I got the stun after I ran around a pallet 3 times while injured. I literally waited for the last possible moment to drop the pallet (and not go down), and people call that pre-dropping. I can't comprehend a pallet stun (not camping the pallet) in any reasonable world being pre-dropping, but that is the most common descriptor I've heard when watching those VODs.
What I understand 'pre-dropping' to be, is a pallet thrown before injury is even a threat. Personally I love those players, because they are my little deadzone makers. I chase them for 2-3 pallets, go back around and chase someone else into the deadzone the other player made. To be fair this is hardly effective on the newest maps, as you just need to bloodlust Borgo/Garden weaker pallets for the most effective hit as an M1 Killer, but that is a map problem, not a player problem.
As far as the pallet drop CD, I think it would be fine if only applied to the least hooked player(s) (including ties, only while everyone is alive). That way someone being tunneled can still spam pallets without a care, but also no one can burn all the pallets and make their team lose due to their pallet greed.
Pre-dropping goes hand-in-hand with the genrushing problem. Yeah, you can break the pallets they wasted, but in that time, you'll get no injury as others are speeding through gens, making the situation horrid when facing people that often bring strong toolboxes (which I see WAY too often already).
As someone said, breaking a bunch of the pallets increases the risk of snowballing (which you'd have to do at the end in order to get much pressure), and that isn't fun at all for survivor.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455467#Comment_3455467
Get out of here with that.
Getting your way blocked all game by a few silly survivor with flashlights that just pre-drop everything and wait from a safe distance to blind you 2-3 times if you go for a pallet break isn't "playing the game".
That's a ridiculous statement to make.
The flip side to that is very simple and hilarious tho.
If you get tunneled after 3 hooks and die... it literally means you lost 3 chases in a row... your team is either winning or losing BASED ON HOW YOU PERFORMED in said chases...
If that's not playing the game... I don't know what is.
Not sure how much you fully agree with my argument, but thanks for not being one of the people like AMOGUS. Starting this discussion, I was literally planning on seeing people like him, LOL. No offense.
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@AMOGUS said:
People comparing blowing pallets to tunneling is really showing how entitled people are becoming and how they can't counter even bad Survivor gameplay.
Never play killer? What you said is showing the entitlement. If I pointed out how tunneling just sucks, it shows how I have faced that too. You are just going on one side of the problem, while I'm on both. There are multiple stupid strategies on both sides.
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@CatnipLove said:
Survivors hate being tunneled but killers suffer just as much because they get pallets dropped on them? Why not just make a post complaining about how strong pallet loops are?
You have a choice on how you engage with the match. If you can't get one survivor then go chase another survivor or kick a gen. You still get to play the game. Being tunneled means barely getting to play the game you waited in line for. It's not the same thing, not even close.
There are a bunch of issues for Killers, map design being one of them. Why not make a thread complaining about that instead of comparing two community issues that aren't even remotely similar?
Look at all my discussions and you'll see, LOL. And yes, predropping is almost as bad as tunneling because the killers can't play chase at all. All the M1s can do is hold W. Wastes half the game for them, especially on pallet-filled maps.
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@Digfish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455158#Comment_3455158
The OP is complaining about it from a Killer perspective, saying that survivors dropping pallets is equivalent to Killers tunneling in how annoying it is for Killer's to face. They weren't arguing that it was wasteful.
Quite frankly, I think most people are too precious with pallets. Some won't drop a pallet even if it means that they will go down. A pallet is never worth as much as a hook state, and it's always better to extend the chase and buy your teammates more time on gens.
Some players do pre-drop too much, but a lot of the time, pre-dropping can be necessary, especially against certain killers who are able to counter pallets.
Play survivor mostly? Pre-dropping is sometimes necessary, but when people just run and drop a pallet without even glancing behind, it's stupid. It practically is survivor tunneling, though: it can be helpful but is stupidly annoying to face.
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@Digfish said:
This is silly. Survivors are going to use the tools they are given. The real problem is that some maps have too many pallets that are too close to eachother. This isn't a survivor playstyle issue, it's a map generation issue.
That's why my idea might help a tiny bit.
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It'd obviously need a lot of work to be balance perfectly, but an idea I have to decrease the chance of these strategies is this: you have a cooldown from slamming pallets. It'd both prevent so much predropping as well as possibly help against pallet stuffed maps.
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@UndeddJester said:
As a new player learning the game, I have been thinking for a while now that the add-ons on both sides are too strong in general... when you read some of these effects of these things, they seem outright bonkers... and when you look back at the history of insta blind combos, and other major game add on issues through the years... yikes xD
Comparing to other games I play with similar systems, what add-ons should do to my mind is offer small number tweaks to encourage slightly different play-styles... I actually pretty much exclusively use brown add-ons on all my killers cause they give slight tweaks, rather than the huge game transforming effects of the other tiers, and the killer largely feels the same as base kit...
However I don't have anywhere near enough experience with the game to start suggesting something so radical like completely transforming the add ons system to remove their massive game altering effects. Any changes I would ponder asks the questions, how to make rarity mean something, and what the hell to do with the Blood Web? So more trouble than it's worth... but the strength of these things is a little weird to me.
P.s. Newb question as an aside... do brown torches, maps and keys exist for survivors? I assume not, but were they ever a thing? I was under the assumption survivors had like basic gear for various team roles, effectively serving as the survivors equivalent of a killer "power", and the rarity improved those abilities... but these other things just seem rare, to the point I'm almost afraid to run them, cause I don't fully understand how they work, there is no common version to get an idea...
With you being fairly new and me having played since 2017, I'm EXREMELY glad we see eye-to-eye on add-on strength, even on the killer side. It tends to be the newer people that bring the absurd things like the Brand New Part and Hemorrhagic Syringe, thinking it's a fair thing to do. Just faced a couple survivors earlier today that brought the Syringe with an already-strong med kit.
About the items, I never bring any besides maybe a basic flashlight when playing survivor. Almost bring nothing over Rare/Green on either killer or survivor. I feel like the game's fun and fair when the survivors don't bring stuff like the BNP and the killer doesn't tunnel or camp (unless absolutely necessary, like having few hooks at 1 gen left).
The sad thing is, that's not common. Few, like me, play that way. I play for fun, not to win, and I hope more people learn that. I tend to try to get everyone to 2nd stage before killing someone, sometimes letting everyone escape if I get to that point really early.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453788#Comment_3453788
Perhaps you play killer more then survivor then? I don't know what else I can say to that
Yes, but I've played a lot of both in the last year, so I've seen quite a bit of change on both sides. We both have our opinions, so let's politely agree to disagree. Deal?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424809#Comment_3424809
To take away my personal experience (I win most times as killer on RPD's and loose most of the time as survivor on that map). Perhaps this tierlist from Otz can actually support my argument?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIzwuFOOYiI
I am not saying I agree with every map placement in this video, but I think RPD is clear-cut killer sided no matter what
Sorry for a late response, but I honestly still disagree. I have seen that video a while ago and am hesitant on a lot of his placements myself. I feel like the "killer-sided" maps are actually the fairer ones, while the survivor-sided ones are straight up survivor-sided.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425335#Comment_3425335
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H7RIO2E9DJ49/image.png
if you do not demanifiest i.e stay uncloaked, this add-on provides you with oblivious when in 8 meters of TV. you won't hear lullaby and she will have no terror radius. your suggestion is an add-on except it has drawback which is that when TV is deactivated, the oblivious is disabled.
Sadako relies on survivors who are bad at looping m1 killers and have no situational awareness of her lullaby or the audio cue that plays when coming out of television. The killer is effectively balanced off new/very bad survivors. All her variables are super safe from down to her 100 second cooldown TV'S to her flickering invis at loops chase power.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X6ID060TFKGV/image.png
according to wiki, these are her invis numbers. supposedly if you combine her cloak+linger invis, the total invis time is 1.75 seconds. that is nowhere need near enough invis time to do a mindgame. On top of that, decloaking slows sadako's m/s down so chaining her invis is impractical. Its mostly case of under-tuned chase numbers paired with directional lullaby being invis at loops pretty pointless. Like I said its balanced for weak survivors. Funny aspect is people still complaining about her even though the killer is m1 loopable.
I do know a lot about Sadako as I partially main her. However, I don't use many add-ons other then the Cabin Sign and Old Newspaper almost every time, as those honestly give her a lot of help, though the add-on you mentioned is annoying, as I have faced it myself.
I did not think super deeply about my idea as it randomly popped it my mind when facing one the other day, but making her stronger around TVs might help her in the long run because it'd slightly urge people to pick up tapes more often, giving them more condemned. Obviously, she'd need other changes, though.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Just remove lullaby, done. Why does she have it anyway?
I do hate the lullaby, as you see.
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@Xernoton said:
I think Sadako would be fine, if everytime she hit someone out of her stealth the TV with the least cooldown reactivated (weaker version of the Iridescent Videotape).
That would help a lot in the long run.
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@Gandor said:
Buff base sadako and nerf condemn sadako. As it stands, onePumpWillie shows she is not weak by any definition (but only OP boring playstyle on her). It's similar situation to tombstone (piece) meyers vs anything else (even if it's not AS bad).
They definitely need to change Condemn-Only Sadako and then buff Base Sadako, but I'm not sure how they'll change her. Almost any killer is actually like that: they can keep slugging each survivor over and over until they die on the ground or DC. It's sweaty play, and that works when the killer is more skilled than the survivors.
And I think Sadako is still weak overall, even with the Condemn playstyle. It's still very hard to knock people down when they're skilled. She may need a small buff to her chase kit.
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@Gandor said:
Someone calling RPD survivor sided O.o . Like there could maybe be an argument for haddonfield (that one sides with both sides depending on where u find the survivor), but RPD? Are you perhaps playing huntress? (No argument for farm and Ormond)
Umm, RPD is still very strong for survivors.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420113#Comment_3420113
A) i wrote to make items mandatory like killer abilities, so that survs can be balanced around always starting a trial with an item.
B) dont push your personally chosen restrictions onto an enemy if youre unwilling to follow them yourself. If you do as you preach you'd be fine with losing to a tryhard killer cuz you wouldnt want to try to escape yourself, chillax dude, why youre such a tryhard to escape bro just go for a gen and then twiddle your thumbs, you did your part by showing up.
I do hope its noticeable that B) went into sarcasm hard.
A competitive mode that lets you bring whatever you want and a casual mode that doesn't let bring anything (or maybe just not let you bring anything above Uncommon) would greatly separate the more relaxed players and the tryhards.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420088#Comment_3420088
A mode that restricts what you can bring in the name of balance sounds much more like a 'competitive mode'.
Casual mode being 'anything goes' is much more fitting.
What do you mean? If I heard you correctly, being able to use anything doesn't sound so "casual." A casual mode would be primarily based on basic gameplay rather than have tons of changes from every perk, item, or add-on the killer or survivors bring. THAT'D be competitive.
As you might be seeing in the games now, people are bringing the strongest of things, and competitive people love to do that. Those that are bringing those insane things are the people that just want to WIN, and that'd be the point of a competitive mode. Just maybe afterwards they should not be allowed to chat, otherwise the tryhards would argue.
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@FootMan2893 said:
A good idea I heard someone talking about before is that sacrificial wards need to be brown rarity and common for killers. Cause the ability to pick maps heavily favors the survivors way more than killer. Survivors have tons of maps which are either strongly in their favor or outright unfair for the killer. But on killer's side they only maybe have a few maps that are ok but nothing nearly on the same level as what the opposition has. So the survivors are far more likely to abuse map offerings than killers. Therefore the killers should have the option to just completely stonewall map offerings if they choose.
Honestly, yeah. Practically every realm has horrid maps for killer, so it does almost nothing for them bringing map offerings. I think they should completely just remove map offerings, because they are used just way too often, and if killers had to bring Sacrificial Wards every round, they'd not ever be able to use BP offerings unless they want to be brought to the Eyrie of Crows.