mikewelk
mikewelk
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Comments
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@drsoontm said:
I can say for a fact there has been no tunneling at all for any of the matches I've played yesterday.
Congrats for not experiencing what the majority of people here have I guess
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Cool suggestion, but where would the light come from in outdoor maps?
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@LordGlint said:
I feel like lights out really says NOTHING about the base game's problems. If this was JUST a game mode where the only thing missing is perks, you'd have a point. It's not though... The fact that it's hard to find anyone unless you are super close to then could have something to do with the fact that grunting survivors are getting chased more. Tracking has been reduced to mostly sound. Base game has scratch marks, or just looking for crows to fly in the distance. Lights out...doesnt.
Base game's problems will be amplified in any game mode that involves randomizing perks or removing them altogether. Killers will be encouraged to tunnel because they won't expect any solid anti-tunnel perks. Sometimes there'll be cases where it's necessary or whatever, but most of the time it'll be voluntary just like this game mode has shown. You could easily jumpscare survivors and both have fun but majority of killers just tunnel thanks to the BP incentive being boosted and only kills being rewarded well over hook stages.
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@Mr_K said:
Before this mode I never once seen a forum post about tunneling. Yes, this mode as brought to light, 😆, a huge issue secretly plaguing the community.
It hasn't been brought to the light by this discussion, nor did I infer it was a secret. This game mode just made it more obvious as to the extent thanks to its features that you wouldn't get to experience in a regular game. Clearly the point flew right past you...
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@MarKrTheDemigod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644758#Comment_3644758
"I used that word"? Did you forget to switch forum accounts or something? lol
Anyway, the idea of the mode is good but so far my experience (only have played as a survivor so far) is similar to what has been said - killers usually camp hooks. So, you either get hooked and wait for the others to come to help and watch them get downed too, then wait till the hook timer runs out and you die. Or you just ######### on the hook to get out of the game faster.
Also, it feels weird that the killers can see their objectives (gens and hooks) but survivors cannot see theirs. This seems to be especially beneficial for killers such as Billy or Oni, who can use their power to quickly move from a gen to a gen, emerge out of nowhere and down survivors on gens with a single hit.
Personally, I just go through the event Tome, try to get the challanges done as fast as possible and ignore other stuff.
It was from my discussion regarding the game mode and this is the sentence I used it in: "I'm glad this isn't a permanent game mode, but a little reality check where you play a couple of games and then never want to play again since it's that bad."
The idea is good but as you said it's too easy on the killer's side to take advantage of. I don't think the event tome is linked to the modifier specifically so you might wanna try that out.
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Yeah to entertain the killers I guess and to give them faster queue times.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644776#Comment_3644776
I had my first game and killer obviously had wallhacks lol so that was my first experience. I ran straight across the map to basement (in shack, gen was complete) while he downed and hooked someone on the opposite side of map. Then he made a beeline straight to me in basement. He had no reason to come straight there. I'd love to know how that's fun for them.
If they can enjoy tunneling, I'm sure this won't get in their way either.
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I read the discussions and just chuckled because I knew no terror radius and no perks was a formula to disaster (tunneling and camping).
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But survivors love tunneling killers! Why the change of heart now?!
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@Nazzzak said:
I haven't played yet, just woke up and was planning to. Here I thought people would treat this mode as a fun experience. Shame to hear it's still all sweating.
Not really sweating. Killers are just encouraged to camp and tunnel to win, played one killer game and got a 4k without really trying. Can't imagine how easy it would've been if I did tunnel.
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@Cramps said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644751#Comment_3644751
Oh come on, you know what their point is. Hyperbole is often used on these boards to try and make something (tunnelling, camping, slugging, whatever else) seem far more prevalent than it actually is. Players on both sides do this all the time, whether it be survivors exaggerating about how often they're camped/tunnelled/slugged or killers exaggerating about facing back to back SEAL team 6 SWF's. My experience so far playing Lights Out has been about the same as "Exxodus21" has described.
I don't think many people exaggerate about how tunnelling isn't effective. I don't see that argument very often. Most people know exactly how effective it is, that's why they do it.
Well here's some recent examples I'll summarize: Tunneling only ruins the experience of the person getting tunneled (false), tunneling means three people will be on gens (to have three people on gens in solo queue is a miracle + killers finish chases faster when the person being tunneled has one health state), tunneling is necessary to win games (false), etc.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644700#Comment_3644700
We could get DS back on 5 seconds, for a start...
I know right. A rework isn't that necessary.
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@elderwitcher96 said:
I can understand killers/survivors blaming their lack of skill and reliance on perks/add-ons on the mode being "bad" (it's not, really fun for me), but come on, "wake up call" bruh, dbd is a video game, no need to treat it as seriously as realizing that your alcoholism is bad and you need to change things in your life aka actual wake up call.
I used that word because people are just letting tunneling happen and not really doing much about it apart from complaining on websites that have nothing to do with the forums which the developers tend to read, hence the "wake up" part. Also, it was a little remark on the perk "Wake Up!". If you interpret that phrase as something so serious, you do you.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644730#Comment_3644730
Incase you haven't noticed, people tend to greatly exaggerate how often tunneling, camping, and 4man SWF death squads happen.
And people tend to greatly exaggerate about how tunneling isn't effective. What's your point here?
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@Crowman said:
If you want a more "balanced" game, don't play with the modifier.
The modifier isn't there to create a balanced experienced, just a new one.
Imagine the outrage if it was survivor-sided...
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@Exxodus21 said:
It's only been a few hours. You shouldn't expect everyone to change their playstyle immediately. I've only played survivor so far today and my teammates are basically trying to play the same as normal and being punished for it, or being too afraid to work on gens that aren't in the open. Most games I'm finding most of the chests completely unopened even though they're a major help. They'll adapt soon.
As far as tunneling goes, for me at least it's been far less prominent in Lights Out. A lot of killers are going completely out of their way to avoid tunneling.
What I've noticed the most being on display is the lack of survivor skill and lack of genrushing. People are getting pulled off gens like they aren't even trying to pay attention. When the hud shows a survivor in chase a lot of them are still too afraid to work on gens with blind spots.
TL;DR: We're seeing how the abundance of information, powerful perks, and strong items are carrying a lot of survivors that have no business winning, and how tunneling wouldn't be necessary at all and could be safely nerfed if the survivors weren't given tools powerful enough to let low skilled players compete far above their skill level.
Tunneling being far less prominent? This whole forum is talking about how bad the tunneling is... What game are you playing?
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644715#Comment_3644715
Tunneling at 5 gens is blaming the killer for something that is the fault of the survivors. If the killer is chasing 1 survivor, you have 3 survivors who can work on gens. Assuming relatively equal skill on the killer and survivors, survivors should have at least 1 gen done by the time the killer gets the first hook.
So if the killer is capable of tunneling out a survivor without any gens getting done, the survivors messed up.
Or perhaps the MMR messed up? You know, the reknown system everyone loves?
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Tunneling Simulator™
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644709#Comment_3644709
Easier wins are only going to raise their MMR. longterm, it will literally accomplish the opposite of what they want.
Don't worry, they'll just AFK a couple of games and they'll be all good!
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644702#Comment_3644702
If you want to go back to the days of getting unhooked and immediately going down, be my guest. It exists for the reason so killers can't just take advantage of the fact an unhooked survivor is an immobile target.
Not to mention that basekit BT existing didn't make tunneling more common. The devs have slowly nerfed many alternative ways killers had to win without tunneling.
Hit and Run was killed with CoH release and despite nerfs to healing since, Mangled and Sloppy are about to be nerfed again.
3 Gen strats just got nerfed.
Strong regression perks keep getting nerfed.
If you are a killer and you are playing to win, the best try and true mention is to kill a survivor quickly. Optimally this means focusing your early hooks towards a quick kill which results in tunneling.
I don't. I'm just saying basekit BT isn't as glorious as you describe it to be - It's a minor inconvenience against tunneling. If you are a killer and playing to win, tunneling at five gens shouldn't be something you want to be planning for. It's a boring experience for both sides, especially against solo queue where killers steamroll my team and still tunnel as if their life depends on it. If you're playing to win, at least try a little bit. The game shouldn't dish you out wins and tunneling doesn't make you feel like you achieved anything. After I tunnel, I don't feel satisfied. I don't see why I would.
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No way killers are lobby dodging because they want even easier wins...
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@AzshFayd said:
This gamemode exposes that people tunnel just because they can, not because they have to
Yeah the excuse of saying they have to tunnel to get a kill is getting old real fast. Makes it look bad on people actually struggling and needing to tunnel after being punished for spreading hooks.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644691#Comment_3644691
Survivors already have basekit BT to prevent being tunnel straight off unhook. There's not really more than can be done for survivors, because the survivor is the 4 man team and the killers main objective is to kill them.
Base kit BT doesn't do much in the long run. In fact, it hinders anti-tunnel perks because when you're deep wounded you can't use them. Killers know this and that's why they hit off hook. Saves them more time than being hit with a dead hard would've and that's why tunneling is so common.
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@Crowman said:
As long as the killer is rewarded more for killing a survivor than they are for spreading hooks, anything short of making survivors invulnerable would stop tunneling. But making survivors invulnerable would be a far worse situation than tunneling is.
I'm looking for things that would mainly restrict it's prominence, not eliminate it. But yeah, those observations are correct.
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So killers are encouraged to participate in the most tedious playstyles - tunneling and camping. It's definitely what the game needs more of...
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Don't expect any better games from it. Killers are playing on easy mode and MMR has gone out of the window.
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Even just rewarding hook spreading more would help alleviate the issue a little. Something has to be done because anti-tunnel perks can only do so much against killers that know how to counter them.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644608#Comment_3644608
I think it's a problem with Dbd since 2016. Tunneling is just the way to counter gen rushing. You "gen rush", then I "tunnel". That's the problem.
Yes, my solo queue team really love to gen rush! We really deserve to get tunneled out at five gens because a gen has a slight bit of progression which could foreshadow a crushing defeat (only a 3k).
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Making it darker would just lead to more tunneling as if that's not a big issue as is. Killers wouldn't be able to find anyone so they would just go for the person on hook and problem solved.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644519#Comment_3644519
It's not even the team so much as the opponent for me.
Having no anti-tunneling perks speaks for itself. Must be a terrific experience!
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I don't even wanna try it out. I get teammates that run right into the killer when the map is slightly dark.
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Killers AFKing because they are annoyed is understandable. Sometimes you just know you've lost and that there's nothing you can do about it. If a killer is AFK from the start of the game however, then they are just lowering their MMR most likely so they should be punished.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639693#Comment_3639693
This. The overwhelming majority of soloq games are usually 3v1 by 3 or 4 hens. Sucks. Really does.
It always feels like there's just a spark missing in games. Uniqueness I guess. The cycle is getting tiresome.
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Once in a blue moon
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Yes, exactly like grade reset on the 13th.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642378#Comment_3642378
Close hatch and give them a free escape, no im not going to cross half the map to find the hatch for them to crawl and hide somewhere else and waste my time might as well make it feel like its on their time instead
"Make it feel like it's on their time instead" summarises the whole reason toxicity exists. Cycle of revenge.
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@Zenislev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642643#Comment_3642643
1) Remember, no two people can ever use similar language ever. That's not a thing that's happened in the history of the entire world. But hey, as long as we're on the same page and understand that you are in fact being really weird about a coincidence, then great.
2) It wasn't a tangent and I'm right
3) I like lists, they're nice, but sometimes other people use them and they're clearly just copying me, after all no one has ever used a list before me.
4) The post got lost because whatever software they used to make this forum is awful. It's actually not the first time I've lost a post when trying to edit a typo. As far as I've seen, if you try to edit something two or three times within a certain window the the edit window craps out when you hit the button to commit the changes and just deletes everything.
Talking about narcissism and then your point being "I'm right" is very contradictory lol. You have to realize you literally used the same starter as I did only a couple of hours later to talk about a opposite point to mine. This wasn't ten years ago, you seem to like exaggerating almost everything. Therefore, I'm not going to reply to you anymore because it seems you aren't open to constructive arguments.
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There's no link to the stream btw
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Really wanted to download custom portrait packs but that can get you banned so that's great...
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642462#Comment_3642462
and time is a bad judge. tells nothing about the situation and motivations.
the game would end if the survivor wasn't that desperate to not go on hook. just let the killer take you and end the game. but gotta crawl to a deadzone, struggle...
and then complain when people just leave them on the ground.
but I guess it's ok because only the killer gets any blame apparently...
glad we agree.
Poor killer mains :(
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@Zenislev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642258#Comment_3642258
I wrote out a whole big response to this, saw a typo that I wanted to edit, and then somehow the post got lost, or at the very least, I'm not seeing it anymore so I'm assuming it got lost. I'm not about to rewrite it again, so to sum it up;
1) These are some weird, narcissistic patterns you're seeing here. "Remember" is a common word, and windows are one of the major mechanics in the game that are commonly used to bait out misses from killers that have abilities that require a high degree of commitment like xeno. Obviously people are going to tell you to bait windows. You're seeing patterns where there are none. If you believe my post is a dig at you, then you probably also believe that the fact that both of our names are 8 letters long is more than just a coincidence. It's nonsense.
2) The killer's time is worth significantly more than the survivors time and unlike survivors, they're always under a major time crunch. 3 seconds is enough to get a survivor over to the next safe loop where they can drag out a chase even longer. The cooldown should not be anywhere near that long. The only reason it was nerfed was because survivors pay the bills and they complained, the same reason why everything killers have gets nerfed sooner rather than later, while survivors get to run around with broken perks for years and then get base kit perks added to them again and again and again.
1) You didn't create your username shortly after I created mine and usernames don't mean anything to me. Well done for counting how many letters are in my username because I couldn't care less about that. Baiting windows was very ineffective against a experienced Xeno who knew that was the only form of counterplay. Scroll through pages of discussions and you'll realize no one has started off with a "Remember," for a very long time because it's not a common way to start a reply. You can call me a narcissist all you like but you can't blame me for noticing that.
2) You basically go on a tangent that survivors get everything handed to them. Classic.
I wonder why your post got lost...
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@MechWarrior3 said:
No it should NOT be a ban worth offense.
Katemain - made the exact same post earlier.
I really don’t know what to tell you, bring perks that help you not get slugged, there’s quite a few of them, and you can bring perks to help you not get downed.
It’s part of the game, and it should not be something that is a bannable. It’s like saying survivor should be banned for teabagging, body blocking, etc.
It’s literally part of the game 🤷🏼♂️ just move on to the next game.
Bleeding someone out for four minutes is not the same as what you listed lol. Sure, it shouldn't be bannable, but why compare such different things? Just takes away from your point.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642430#Comment_3642430
time is the only thing you are judging here?
trigger? prolonging the game? gate spawns can be bad and the killer might not be able to patrol them. but I guess you don't care...
oni slugs. always has.
Yes I'm judging by time because what else do I judge it with? Entertainment wise waiting for someone to bleed out rather than engaging in a chase seems illogical.
Yeah it would trigger. It wouldn't prolong the game as much as the four minutes since endgame collapse is two minutes. Gate spawns being bad doesn't excuse bleeding out a survivor because you're that desperate for a 4k.
Oni slugs because he's a snowball killer. Solo queue pubstomper most of the time.
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Recordings take a huge chunk of storage so I just take screenshots. Not the most convenient thing, but it has proved effective at banning people also.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642424#Comment_3642424
No way close. People just like to overreact on her and hating on her is still trendy.
Overreact? I'll hate her even when the trend dies until something is done about her lack of skill expression. I simply don't enjoy facing a killer where every person maining them plays the exact same. I escape against them from time to time but it doesn't even feel rewarding because of how bad the experience was.
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Nope, no new information regarding cross progression either.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
Why isn't predropping bannable?
It's a strategy, like tunneling. Both are tedious but still considered that.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642378#Comment_3642378
you cannot separate the two. because it's just "he said she said". the devs can't know which is which, so they can't ban anyone for these. otherwise everyone would have to be banned.
so let them bleed out on the ground for awhile, go look for hatch, close hatch, adrenaline doesn't exist, go find them because they moved, pick them up, they wiggle maybe, another chase, down them again, hook.
seems much simpler to just wait the timer, or the survivor just let the killer hook them. issue solved.
oni isn't.
It's very easy to figure out how long a survivor has been slugged for. If the game for some reason cannot do that, recordings always exist.
What would Adrenaline do when hatch is closed? If you can't find a injured survivor by just patrolling two gates, that's all on you. It is simpler to wait it out indeed. When you close hatch, the endgame timer begins and, if you struggle to hook a survivor in that time frame, it still costs less time than waiting for them to bleed out (two minutes vs four). It's simpler, as mentioned, but a time waste for both sides and mind-numbingly boring.
Oni is a snowball killer. As long as the team know what they are doing, slugging doesn't help.
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Just wait until you get a Snooze Merchant and that break will be extended
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@Alice_pbg said:
because that is just the game.
harassment, and other stuff is what would actually get them banned.
this is the equivalent of asking a ban for a t-bag.
@bjorksnas said:
I mean its not such a black and white issue its more of a gray zone that you can't make a definitive ruling on, sometimes you need to slug survivors
for example
survivor gets slugged and crawls away then bleeds out, was it the killers fault the survivor didn't get picked up or was the last survivor and crawled away and couldn't be found
what if the survivor is slugged because there are no hooks they can be carried to without getting a free escape is that the killers fault for securing a kill or the survivors fault for trying to wiggle off instead of just letting the match end
if a killers power is built around slugging is it wrong to use bleedout instead of hooks to secure kills, like the twins
they give killers benefit of the doubt because making it be loose rules on slugging will just lead to confusion at best giving survivors an option to bleed out on the ground after ~2mins on the ground total could make instances where its used maliciously shorter but its not ever going to be a rule / bannable offense
This discussion very explicitly talks about being bled out for four minutes, and not slugging as a strategy. A teabag is nothing compared to being bled out for four minutes and isn't even comparable. You could compare it to the humping part for sure in some way, but not that.
If there are no hooks nearby, just close hatch then let them wiggle free. I mean they won't be able to escape, right? Issue solved.
Twins is getting reworked because BHVR is steering away from the slugging playstyle so no killers should have their powers revolve around it anymore.