mentalpopcorn
mentalpopcorn
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@D_Orien said:
Still to this day, there's no survivor perks that try and counter slugging and face camping. So I've created my own.
PERK: LAST CHANCE
Description: If a killer after hooking you stays within 5 metres of you for 10/8/6 seconds, this perk activates.
You can unhook yourself or be unhooked and are fully healed with a sprint burst to boot. Your second hook will instead count as your first hook. So it takes 4 hooks to sacrifice you.
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PERK: ALL TOGETHER (Anti-Slug)
When you and two other survivors are downed, this perk activates.
You can instantly heal yourself to the injured the state and this action applies to the other survivors (so when you heal yourself, they too are healed).
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Now, Decisive Strike is the anti-tunnelling perk but it needs a huge buff, because stunning the killer for 3 seconds doesn't matter when you'll still quickly be downed afterwards. It's buff should be that after using perk, the killer is stunned for 6/8/10 seconds and is blinded for the duration. The timer to use it should pause when in a chase and when downed so a killer can't just wait for it to end.
Unbreakable counters slugging hard
There doesn't need to be a counter for face camping. Face camping itself is a bad strategy that loses games. If a team gets 3k'd by a face camper, it's the survivors that are truly bad. You see someone face camping? Everyone should start rushing gens and give that survivor up. By the time they die you'd finish a lot of gens. That being said most people don't even know what face camping is and I feel like you're another one of those people. Face camping is sitting in front of the survivor on the hook not letting anyone get close while not moving far away at all. Face camping is not patrolling the hooked survivors area because you know there are 1 or 2 survivors nearby and you don't want to just walk away handing them a free unhook. I see many of people call this face camping, if you think that's face camping, or even a scummy strategy you're just bad at the game. There is no reason a killer should hand you an unhook for free unless they want a 12 hook for an easy double pip. If a killer knows gens aren't being worked on why the hell would he patrol anything but the hook? The counter to all types of camping is gen rushing. It's your own fault as a survivor for not realizing this. Not everything is countered by a perk specifically.
A free unhook and fully healed at that? I really hope this is just a troll post because I can't imagine anyone being so stupid as to think that's balanced, the game already favors survivors over killers anyways. If you want a free unhook get deliverance.
The fact is there are multiple perks and playstyles that counter exactly what you're talking about. You're just a terrible survivor is all.
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Sfw players are normally the most toxic of all players too. I get playing with friends is fun but it really shouldn't be allowed in this type of game if it's a ranked mode.
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1456542#Comment_1456542
Yes because revealing the auras of anyone with friends is balance
What and you think sfw is more balanced than that? Sfw with voice chat is literally the most op thing in the game.
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1456147#Comment_1456147
There is legit no reason to punish people for playing with each other period
Why? Are you telling me sfw doesn't give you an insane advantage? The only way I could see Sfw being fair remaining the way it is, is if voice chat was a bannable offence. Sadly that's not possible
If you're unwilling to see how op and unfair sfw Is, it's probably all you play.
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@isilmerel said:
This could be solved with a casual mode (rainbow ranks/swfs) and ranked mode (limited ranks/swfs need to be closer in rank).
Ranked mode just restricts ranks in the party (which would result in longer queues). Red ranks only match with 1 rank up/down. Purple within 2 ranks. Green, Yellow, Gray within 3 ranks.
Casual mode gets half BP. Ranked mode gets full BP. That way, at least people who want to swf with rainbow rank friends and still progress their characters can have their fun games, ranked can be left to sweaty players.
That's just my opinion, anyway.
I'm under the opinion sfw should be reserved only for a casual mode and ranked mode shouldn't allow sfw. Sfw is extremely unfair, it's as if you were using wall hacks in an fps. There's no reason something so op should be available in a ranked mode.
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@Throwaway123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1456543#Comment_1456543
Really you think that would make No Mither too good? It's a pretty instant tell that they have it if you don't use an instant down ability and they go down in one hit so you can start to play around it after that, or if they use a surprise Dead Hard while looking healthy. The instant pickup I wouldn't think makes up for being at 1 hit all game at just 1 use. Could just make it so you pick up much faster instead of instant though, I may be underestimating it. Honestly being injured all game is tough to even propose balance around without pushing too far in one direction or the other. I wish I could test stuff like this and play around with it.
Being able to instantly pick up a survivor or pick yourself up would counter slugging way too hard. This is exactly why unbreakable exists.
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Ever seen a trapper or demo with devour hope? That's something to fear.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Killers get a one hit down at hooks. All of them. If they didn't have that, I wonder if they'd play the hook stand off game anymore.
It's almost like hooked survivors are an objective? If survivors aren't progressing gens or healing what else should you do? Ignore the hook? I don't understand survivors who complain about camping like the killer is just supposed to ignore the 2 or 3 survivors near the hook.
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@Dwinchester said:
Every day I see someone complaining that this killer or that killer perk is overpowered and needs to go. Let me lay down the harsh truth for you as someone that plays both sides.
Survivors have the advantage in this game, not killers.
Objective times are heavily slanted in survivor favor, they're capable of being done in under 4 minutes. The numbers favor you, 4 survivors to a single killer.
Information is also survivor sided. You see in 3rd person, you have a 32m head start on the killer, you know which way the killer is facing at a loop. You also know when you're hexed. Add in swf and you get even more info. Meanwhile killer is crippled by awful fov and deafening chase music.
Perk strength is heavily slanted to survivors. Look at prove thyself vs thanataphobia, one grants 40% faster gen speeds, the other gives 16% slowdown. Don't get me started on object, ds, dh, unbreakable, spine chill, and soul guard.
Map strength is in your favor. Killer has like two maps that are strong, survivors have the rest.
Rng is in your favor. Kobe's, trap escapes, map offerings, hook spawns all trend toward survivors.
Finally, matchmaking is in your favor, there's far more yellow rank killers facing red rank survivors than the reverse.
So basically what I'm saying is that no killer or killer perk is overpowered. If you're losing, you only have yourself to blame. You have every advantage handed to you and can win 95% of your matches if you're a top team. It's ok to be less than a top team, but when you ask for killer nerfs, you're widening the gap at the top.
I somewhat disagree with "survivors have the advantage"
I main killer, most non sfw games end up in 4ks for me if I'm playing one of my main killers. while survivors have better add on type things (keys, some great offerings) killer in general has an advantage over a normal game (non sfw) due to survivors having a lack of information. Yes they get more info than killers, but it's 4 people. This leads to disorganization and time wasting. Not knowing who is being chased for if anyone at all for example. Killer also has a faster movement speed and has time on their side granted their not tunneling. once you're down to 3 or 4 gens left it's so easy to halt all gen progression for the most part. Yes, genrushing sucks, but people tunnel too much which makes it so easy. Get a hit, don't commit to the chase, go get someone at the gen you know they'll be at.
Sfw with voice chat however is such an insane advantage it's ridiculous. To list a few things it lets you know when someone's being chased to rush gens, it lets you know the exact best moment to rescue from hooks, it takes away room for survivor error as 1 person's knowledge becomes the rest easily.
I play survivor sometimes, and sfw a few times. The difference is insane. Its such an advantage I'd compare it to wallhack in a fps games.
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@Kebek said:
Since there's been such large amount of players claiming that deathslinger doesn't have counterplay I've decided to ask you all how would you change DS to fit your counterplay criterias.
I'd like to say that in my opinion deathslinger has counterplay which is based on predictions (a statement/action about what you think will happen in the future) just like for example nurse or spirit have, it's very difficult to predict but it is possible. Keep in mind that this thread is to discuss counterplay to his power and not his viability.
Also please refrain from any ideas that would change DS to 115% MM Killer. Those are lazy changes that suck all fun from killer's power. It's like suggesting to fix looping strong tile setups due to strong window spawns by increasing MM speed of all survivors by 3% but nerf all fast vaults into slow vaults. Such lazy changes are never good idea, keeping DS 110% with good power needs to stay.
So please when you suggest some change do your best to explain what kind of counterplay you want DS to have and how would you reach it via your suggested changes.
I'd also like to ask if @ScottJund could spare a bit of his time and partake in this discussion since he's one of the best known opposers to deathslinger's gameplay. It would be extremely helpful if he could share more of his views on this topic and possibly even give some changes that he thinks would make DS balanced. As seasoned DS main I'd really love to give my feedback if he has some ideas in mind to change DS.
I think for the most part deathslinger is perfectly fine. Being able to shoot someone outside of your terror radius with the right perks can be absolutely terrifying but amazing and earned. My only problem is his gun in chases. With any other ranged killer there is audio or visual queue. With gunslinger there isn't much there, it's pretty instant. I think there should be some sort of audio queue that he's aiming if you're in his terror radius. (Only if you're in his terror radius though) I feel if you changed him any other way might hurt him too much as he's not necessarily THAT strong.
To the players that say deathslinger has no counterplay: have you heard of the crouch button? It's so easy to crouch under his shots often times. And even outside of crouching, you're also able to move unpredictably so he misses shots. A gunslinger has to be pretty accurate if he wants to hit you. That being said, moving like this can make you lose distance and I've seen good deathslingers bait this so they can get closer
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@I_Am_Goblin_Boy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1439934#Comment_1439934
I've never seen or heard either of those things. And yes, spine chill may counter her, but you can't expect people to bring that perk
It's easy to think there's no counterplay if you've never heard of the counterplay. It's the same with noob survivors not knowing you can crouch over hag traps.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Honestly killer has never been easier. I was destroying groups all day yesterday with little effort.
This isn’t a stealth brag but red ranks are so watered down now most games feel like green rank games. Sure you’ll occasionally get the games with a genrush swf or 4 pro loopers but those games are few and far between. I haven’t seen a good player that knew how to run every tile or link structures together in a while. In fact most red ranks these days are carried heavily by Dead Hard and Adrenaline. DS isnt so bad its easy to play around.
Red ranks are a joke now because ranked reset only takes you back 1 rank and not all the way to 20. When ranked reset tool you back to 20 every time red ranks were something special
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@Nickeh said:
You're running sloppy, ruin, and noed. Gee, it's as if both sides run effective perks.. who'd have thunk?
Noed isn't even that strong... I wouldn't touch that perk on killer. Devour hope is so much better
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@hahadrillgobrrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1441653#Comment_1441653
Nice bait. Not falling for it.
The sad this is it's probably not bait
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@StevePerryPsychOut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/171601/i-don-t-even-what-to-play-as-killer-anymore
Tbf it's pretty hard for survivors to go off-meta in this game. Don't run DS? Get tunneled, don't run BT? Killer camps. Those are 2 perks that can be rendered completely useless based on the behavior of the killer, yet they are the most complained about perks in the game. In all games people will take the path of least resistance to get good results. Killers take this path by taking their own meta perks, camping, and tunneling. Survivors take the path of least resistance by countering the easy but highly effective strategy above.
Pot, meet kettle.
I think the perks are fine for the most part, but the fact you can sit In a locked and be completely safe with DS is bullshit. The opportunity to slug should still be there, a red box shouldn't suddenly beat the killer. DS should only work when being picked up from the dying state.
People have said to me "just wait for DS to wear off" and if anyone thinks waiting a minute in front of a locker is a legitimate way to win as killer then they are clueless about the game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1440417#Comment_1440417
Discordance and Sloppy are Meta Perks. And if someone does not run PGTW, they usually run Ruin (I have Ruin in like 1/3 of my games).
If you're running ruin you should probably run surveillance
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
Just run, NoED, Franklins, Dying Light, Thanatophobia. It'll slow the game down, a little bit. And if they don't slow down, you take their necks off with noED. Oh and if you don't feel the need to run franklins to kill flashlights, bring knockout, so you can just slug them. And swap out thano for Deerstalker or sloppy butcher.
Running ruin, surveillance, and discordance together is much better. All this while forcing yourself to not tunnel too hard basically stops all gen progression. It's rare survivors complete more than 2 gens with this setup. If you have a hard time playing as killer against meta perks, just ignore the rest of the game and play to halt generator progression. They can't leave as long as gens don't get completed and with this setup they never will complete them
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When I was rank 15-20 the game was putting up against an entire team of red ranks. This is nothing
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@I_Am_Goblin_Boy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1438984#Comment_1438984
Im gonna guess that the perk you're referring to that can "absolutely destroy her" is iron will. I disagree with that. First of all, you can't expect every survivor to just run iron will on the off chance it's a spirit. Same thing with spine chill. Second, stridor counters it as well
When you're on gens, you can keep an ear out for a phasing spirit, but prayer beads makes it tough, plus you can't hear the phasing if you're inside her terror radius.
How are you gonna know if she starts phasing in the middle of a chase? For all you know, she could just be standing there and faking the phase, waiting for you to start trying to sneak away.
The "counterplay" to spirit is pure guessing and dumb luck. You have to hope that you're making the right decision and you have to hope that you know what she's trying to do. There's no actual skill involved. Spirit would so much more fun and balanced if there was some way (other than the phasing sound you only hear outside of her terror radius) to know when she's actually using her ability
I do however completely agree with you about the killer's skill. If i go against a nurse main with a couple thousand hours in the game, then im gonna get destroyed and have no fun whatsoever, even tho nurse is typically my fave to VS
There are multiple ways to tell when spirit is phasing. Firstly there's an audio queue when you're in her terror radius, but also her hair stands up. So if she's standing still and her hair isn't standing up then she's not phasing
I also mentioned the perk that destroys her is spine chill. That alone let's you know when she's coming at you.
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If any of you saw my hag she'd be way at the bottom of the list. She punishes any altruistic behavior so hard. I run ruin, surveillance, devour hope, and a nurses calling. First 3 hooks just run to the other side of the map. Have permanent exposed status on all survivors until totem is cleansed (defend that crap) and suddenly hook rescues become literally impossible due to hag teleport + exposed insta down
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If you think spirit has no counterplay you must not be very good. There's 2 very easy ways to counter her and a perk that destroys her.
1. When on gens use your ears more than your eyes
2. When in a chase if she activates her ability stop running and change direction. She can only find you by scratch marks and sounds you make.
3. This isn't one that you can do in the match, but if you have spine chill you can just ruin a spirit if you play carefully
I find GF the shape and pyramid head a lot more unfun to play against than the spirit. With GF he can come out of nowhere and just instadown you with his easy exposed status. With the shape it's not as bad but he can do basically the same thing. People who get the exposed status that easily ruin the game imo. And pyramid head just has very little counterplay at all. You can try and dodge his ranged attack but all that will do is decrease the distance between you and him for a regular attack. Then what? DS? you probably can't. He's way too good at downing survivors and once you are downed there's absolutely no counterplay to him.
This being said I think "fun" has less to do with the killer and more with the person's playstyle and skill. I'd rather fight a spirit or even pyramid head around my skill level than fight and low tier killer way better than me. The game is a lot less fun when you're slaughtered in the first 5 minutes
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Second chance perks themselves aren't annoying. What's annoying is when a survivor uses every meta perks under the sun then complains about the killers perks/playstyle.
As long as a survivor thinks it's normal to complain about camping and tunneling, I will think it's normal to complain about genrushing, near infinite loops, and second chance perks.
And to anyone who thinks camping isn't a legitimate playstyle. The perks I run are ruin, serveillance, and discordance together. This means I can prioritize punishing altruistic behavior while still making sure gens don't progress. Yet for some reason survivors think this is a stupid playstyle to use (even though it works very well most of the time) why exactly would I patrol gens or go to the other side of the map when I don't need to do that. Why would I go too far away when I know where most of the survivors are? If you're a survivor and complain about something like this do yourself a favor and uninstall. The killer has no obligation to go to the other side of the map and count to 60 like they're playing hide and seek. I haven't depipped a single time with this setup, so why exactly would I change to a playstyle that gives me less bp and ranked progression? Because it's not fun for you? Well sfw, infinite/near infinite loops, gen rushing, DS, borrowed time are all not fun for me. So I'll change my playstyle up when survivors stop doing all these things
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1411251#Comment_1411251
Its been proven time and time again its only really 3-4 man swf that obliterate the gens like that.
As someone who plays either solo or 2 man swf tops, Billy needed the nerf.
3-4 man swf is its own separate issue.
I'm all for SFW in custom games, or at least not in ranked mode. But a party of 2 should be the max allowed in sfw for ranked games.
This game is only so broken because their only matchmaking system is ranked and it's a bad system
If there were normal games and they limited sfw in ranked they would see many less balancing issues
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1411251#Comment_1411251
Its been proven time and time again its only really 3-4 man swf that obliterate the gens like that.
As someone who plays either solo or 2 man swf tops, Billy needed the nerf.
3-4 man swf is its own separate issue.
I'm all for SFW in custom games, or at least not in ranked mode. But a party of 2 should be the max allowed in sfw for ranked games.
This game is only so broken because their only matchmaking system is ranked and it's a bad system
If there were normal games and they limited sfw in ranked they would see many less balancing issues
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@hinoutoumei said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1375977#Comment_1375977
Does it only remain invisible to the survivors though? I'm quite confident I've spawned into the game right next to it as a killer at least once. My memory might be off though.
I mean maybe. I look for it but I never see it before the conditions are met. Though I don't play a ton, a couple games every few days. So I'd be less likely to run into it haha
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I play killer because I enjoy bully survivors (especially sfw gen rushers) with the hag. She heavily punishes altruistic behavior so as long as you don't tunnel too much it's easy to come out on top in almost every game, yes even sfw games.
That being said, i just enjoy killer mechanics. I use to play this game a ton, especially survivor, but at this point I find survivor to be a chore. Yes they blatantly outmatch killers if you know what you're doing but I as a casual player don't feel like learning all the best loops or infinites. I find it much easier to have fun on killer.
Sure sometimes I have pretty awful games because of the infinite looping sfw gen rushers but it's not actually as bad as you guys make it out to be. Acting like there's no counterplay to sfw parties is just naive. Is someone playing sfw and blatantly using voice chat features? Tunnel someone, hook them, and camp the ######### out of them. That's bound to piss them off. In this situation camping is your best option. Why? Most sfw trash will do absolutely everything they can to save their friend. So firstly it now puts the momentum in your control. Secondly it opens up more opportunities to down survivors. And lastly it pisses some sfw off. Now when I say camp I don't mean "face camp" I mean be in the area but don't go very far. When a team is gen rushing the only thing you can really do as a killer is try to regain the games momentum and brutally punish any altruistic behavior.
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I was going against rank 1 survivors at rank 20. Granted, there are a lot of rank ones that are just plain awful because the ranking system isn't very good.
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@claudetterealness said:
@BigBrainMegMain I never run DS but it isn't bad as it prevents tunnelling which is a huge problem in the game - the only counter argument to this would lit be bad killers piping up again
also to people saying 'do bones' I only play solo it's a lot harder than you think to clear 5 totems & do gens esp when most the time I get rough teams, or someone disconnects etc but yeah do bones and ignore everything else
You're saying there are a lot of bad killers outing themselves. I just think you're a bad survivor outing yourself
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For players trying to bait the killer around the map into a long chase? No. For players who are stealthy and altruistic? Probably.
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@Carpemortum said:
I assume a bug or lack of oversight. I have two of Kate's bbq shirts. I earned it, but why would I have 2?
I feel like they used a prerequisite (played at x date, during X timeframe, etc) to see who was eligible and gave them out regardless. If they "may" have had them, they have it to ensure nobody lost it kind of thing.
I played the game since release and have a ton of event cosmetics. I didn't do anything to earn the cosmetics I have, but I have them. I never played attention to any events in the past but most of my characters have some ultra rare customization options.
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@Bovinity said:
This is what I meant in another thread when I said that almost every time someone accuses me of "Camping" or "Tunneling", it's actually a direct result of the survivors actions, not something I chose to do.
I camp when I know 2+ are trying to unhook the survivor. Telling someone not to camp in this situation is like me, the killer, telling a survivor to not repair generators.
Face camping without knowledge of anyone being even close (especially in the case of gen rushing) is both disrespectful to the hooked player and a way to lose the game quicker. But camping in general is a legitimate strategy that has got me many a 4k because the survivors are unwilling to give someone up.
If those same survivors went an gen rushed while I was camping I'd change up what I'm doing to win, if the survivor gets unhooked that sucks but at least I kept pressure on the map and stopped gens from being completed. The longer you as the killer can prevent gens from being completed the better your chances of winning.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1374566#Comment_1374566
@hinoutoumei The hatch doesn't spawn at the beginning, there are certain rules for it to spawn.
3-5 gens: It will spawn if there is 1 survivors left
2 gens left = 2 survivors sacrificed
1 gen left = 1 survivor sacrificed
0 gens left = 0 survivors sacrificed
Maybe read other comments before trying to sound smart. A dev literally confirmed that the hatch spawns at the beginning and stays invisible until certain conditions are met
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What are you calling bullshit? The dev literally confirmed it in this post
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No, the hatch and other objects are not a true randomized spawn. But with the different possible spawn locations I, and I'm assuming others call it random because it'd be pretty damn hard to know where it is based on spawn locations of other things.
Just like in apex, the ring location is not random, but if you don't know the game like the back of your hand, it's pretty damn random
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1374136#Comment_1374136
Whataboutism is always strong here.
"Killers deserve tools that can abuse sfw voice chat survivors."
This does not have anything to do with SWFs? Pyramid Heads tunnel me when I am solo as well, lol.
A good early tunnel can help break apart a sfw on voice chat. Idk how you could possibly not know that. I'd be fine with survivors constantly crying about how unfair killers are if both voice chat and infinites weren't a part of the game. As a hag sure I can abuse solos with my teleporting, but it's very good at ruining a sfw groups synergy. The faster you're able to get someone down in sfw the better your odds. If that means having a good early tunnel, it helps. Controlling the game flow matters a lot as a killer, and sfw is great at denying all of it from start to finish.
I'm fine with being able to have parties, but 3rd party vc in a ranked only game mode is absurd considering the advantages survivors get. I would rather fight a killer with wall hacks than a red rank sfw group.
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@xFAKExAxoN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1365848#Comment_1365848
Sure I agree with what you're saying just like I agree that it's not an easy fix based on so many factors, but it's like I said to another guy on this very discussion, I actually can condone camping, slugging or tunneling on very specific circumstances but other than that I can't agree with the fact that they later say that they had no choice, they did and they chose to do that when they didn't have to yet they still had the rest of the game to try and get kills but they chose to, early on, camp someone to death which is completely uncalled for and also dettering to their odds of getting more kills, it's not a smart play to camp early on which is what most campers do and it's also really scummy to do especially with how bad matchmaking has gotten over the past year, I mean can you imagine being in a que for 30 minites just to not play at all, like imagine it the other way around how would it feel if the killer couldn't do absolutely nothing during the game because the survivors just decided to dc for example, the killer spent probably 20-30 minutes looking for a game and they didn't just get nothing out of it, they also had no chance to even play.
Sorry btw for how long winded this comment might seem but I felt like it had to be said
As a killer main in lower ranks I can actually attest this. I do have to wait 15-20 minutes at times for games with red ranks (I'm like rank 17) when I get looped for 5 minutes by a red rank as a relatively new killer, yes I will face camp. It is more efficient to deal with them then, than having to chase them around again. As long as low rank killers have to deal with red rank survivors I will say face camping is fine. Once their ranking system and matchmaking system is fixed to actually put you against people in your skill elo, it would be a different story.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Scorpionz made a video about it just around 1hr ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOygmCr4LaQ
He also addresses the tunneling-problem at the end, and according to him (due to the Cage Location being predictable) he does not know any other option than to make Hook Perks work.
Sadly it shows how most DBD-Killers play when you give them a tool to allow tunneling... Spawning the Cage full Map away is not enough, as Survivor you really need ot be lucky that another Survivor is nearby.
I mean, that's how it is. People use the things theyre able to abuse. You could say the same about infinite looping survivors. Or sfw voice chat. Because they're able, they do it. Even if it's not intended for the game. If survivors can voice chat and get all the information they shouldn't have, this is nothing for a killer. Killers deserve tools that can abuse sfw voice chat survivors. Don't act like killers are the only one to abuse annoying/unfair mechanics. Survivors have a lot more of these than killers.
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@LastShoe said:
Cons:
Super safe, unmindgameable pallets.
It's hard to find gens.
Pros:
There are no infinites.
Breakable walls aren't a must.
I wouldn't say map is terrible by itself... but when it comes to the killers getting this map is either automatic win or loss.
Kilers that decimate everyone on this map:
Huntress, Hag, Deathslinger to some degree.
To them there is no counter in hallways.
Killers that are strong on this map:
PiramidHead, Clown, Freddy, Doc
Killers that are ######### on this map:
Plague, all stealth killers, Nurse (due to the bugs), Bubba (It's Bubba), Trapper, Legion (its size combined with 2 floors with not too many drops, makes it hard to use his power effectively)
Killers that can go either way:
Myers (his classic slow movement speed in t1)
Demogorgon (if you get portals you are set, but more often you won't have time for that)
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@TWiXT said:
The strange thing is, for some reason, I'm not getting the sound bugs he showcased. Occasionally I get the downed survivor that doesn't make any noises still, but otherwise with my headphones on, I hear footsteps on all maps, and pained whining from injured survivors. I Haven't really been paying attention to survivors falling from heights so that may exist, but otherwise I'm not experiencing the same problems. It could be that I use windows to set my default sound system to my headphones instead of ticking the "headphones" option in the games settings menu (I leave that un-ticked). Tru3talent doesn't seem to be having the problem either, because if he did he wouldn't shut up about it, and neither does Monto, or Otzdarva, so maybe it's something else affecting Scott.
This is something that has been known to affect a large portion of the community, including myself. Don't be so dismissive about it just because you don't get the problems.
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If the killer hits you as soon as the survivor lands and you're standing right besides the vault spot, it is possible to hit survivors through windows. That is within the hit range and the window isn't an invisible wall that attacks can't go through.
While there are definitely some latency problems, this effects both killers and survivors. As a killer I've picked someone off a generator for them to just run away. Just because you vaulted doesn't mean you get to be invisible.
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1365236#Comment_1365236
Ah yes, how could I forget about the never ending victim mentality?
It likely will be at the killers expense. Most of the time I am about to attack someone in a way I can just grab them (off a gen, off a window) it usually ends up in a hit. I've even gone through the animation of picking someone up off a gen and they just walk away. If they don't fix this mechanic but they still decide to fix the other problem it will only feel like a nerf to killers.
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@xFAKExAxoN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1364762#Comment_1364762
Devs have been fixing infinite loops and the truth is that loops are still not perfect because of the sudden boosts in speed killers get when chasing survivors for extended times, and those two things are being acomplished because killers have been voicing their problems in the game so saying a survivor cant do the same is just selfish and biased
Between the infinite looping and sfw with voice though, survivors have much more advantages. When people are calling for changes on survivors it's for genuinely broken things. Other than the called for nurse changes and some perk changes on killer, there isn't a whole lot that's broken. Camping isn't a feature of the game, it's a playstyle. Are you going to just tell players to not play a certain way or get banned? That would be nothing less than idiotic. I'm all for voicing concerns on the game, but if that concern is something like camping, a strategy that by all accounts doesn't work unless the survivors let it work then I don't think it has any business being brought up. If the person brought it up and added some genuine advice that would help fix the problem, that's different. But as far as I can tell there's no way to fix something like this. Why? Because it's not broken. It's a strategy that causes the killers to lose more often than not.
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What would you suggest the devs do about this then? There's nothing they can do that keeps it fair for the killer. 2 - 3 survivors keep going to save the hooked survivor? Too bad, camping isn't allowed and you have to let them save the survivor? If you're going to cry about a "problem" offer advice to fix it. Not that it's a problem in the first place, considering it's very easy to counter just by repairing.
If it was a strategy that works way too well and carried you to rank 1 then id get doing something about it, but that's just not the case. Instead those people lose out more than they win. The only time they win is when dumb survivors reward them for the behavior by not letting the survivor go.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363853#Comment_1363853
We can go on and brainstorm a thousand ideas that would at least improve the situation. Kindred basekit has been suggested many times, for example. Make it so that hook grabs don't work anymore, similar to the hatch, so at least survivors can get a 1v1, which is still advantageous for the killer. Make BT proc upon any unhook so it's not cheese countered by sneaky camps. Disconnect hook time and hook stages, i.e. you die on your third hook or after 2 minutes total, so instant re-hooks are not as rewarding. There are many possibilities that could at least be considered and tested to see how they work out. Obviously, it doesn't have to be all of them. Do that and stuff like DS could be nerfed into oblivion and the game still be fair.
But the devs are convinced otherwise. @Almo says that it's the survivors that reward camping, despite evidence that is not always the case. @Peanits says that camping is an intended mechanic because it can be punished by survivors, despite solos not having anywhere near enough information to do that. On top of that we get Pyramid Head and his cages that don't count as hooks for anything except... wait for it.... hook stages. Oh and moris, they count for moris too somehow. It seems clear that 'consistency' is something that is used very conveniently as justification only for those changes that are cherry-picked.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363864#Comment_1363864
This is exactly what killed Deathgarden. Just saying. Nobody likes to load into a casual game and have an insignificant chance to play it. Again, another issue, because the devs view DbD as competitive, despite the bugs and the plethora of unbalanced items and features.
Instant rebooks should not be nerfed. If a survivor rescues another survivor in a situation where it's easy to down one or the other, that is absolutely the rescuers fault, the killer should not suffer a penalty because the survivor made a really dumb decision.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
So they added a tip for something they themselves deemed as "frowned upon", and not actually changed the way a mechanic can be abused by simply adjusting/creating other options for a "camped" survivor, other than the perks (which are already meta enough) DS/BT, and addressing the actual issue. 🤣
Got it.
Here is a hint. Most situations where a killer is face camping very seldom result in the other 3 survivors escaping. Why? Because sometimes the killer doesn't make it known that face-camping is their intention so they make the other survivors waste time until they get there and find out the killer was in fact meaning to face-camp.
I don't expect everybody to understand that, because most killers camp in one way other another because it can be a strat, but it can also be abused to an extent. Which is where I have a problem with it.
I'm also going to put this into perspective, because this is the mentality of a lot of players on these forums:
(Killer camps) Those players: "Just do gens! Don't feed the killer"
Those SAME people: "Genrushing needs to be nerfed immediately!"
Bottom line is. Many people on here just seem to one sided on where the "real" problems are with the game, and cherry-pick whatever suits their fun.
A killer can abuse certain types of camping, sure. But the fact is there are perks and strats to be abused on both sides. I personally think survivors have no right to talk about any dirty killer tactics as long as infinite looping exists, because that should just be blatantly impossible as a survivor.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1364049#Comment_1364049
I'm talking about cases where there's no sight of other survivors, no scratch marks, no groans of pain... absolutely no reason other than the killer is mad/bad that they stay near the hook. Come on now.
You don't need direct evidence to understand where the survivors might be. It's a just game sense, you develop it over time in any game. Like how in league of legends with no vision on enemies it's not too hard to tell where most would be. If the previous pattern of the survivors in a stage has been sending 2 or 3 to unhook then I'm going to play around that and not go to the other side of the map because the survivors want me to.
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Okay I'm a killer main and I'll explain why not being able to give.up a survivor and progress generators is just plain stupid. I mainly play the hag, so no, I don't need to face camp. I can literally just teleport when someone's about to unhook. This leads to many games where there are very few unhooks, and when there are I just down the person who got unhooked right away again. I was against a sfw team that would not let their friend die. They had exit gate powered but the 3 of them were still trying to save this one survivor. Even with the exit gate powered this lead to me getting a 4k. A game that could've been a 1k turned into a 4k because the survivors weren't willing to give a survivor to a killer that is amazing at keeping the survivor hooked. Here's my other problem with people that cry about camping. If i as the killer know 2 or 3 other survivors are trying to unhook the survivor, why would I go patrol generators that nobody is at? You're asking the killer to intentionally lose the game when you tell them to leave the survivor alone so you can unhook them. This would be like a killer flaming you for repairing generators, it's literally your goal as a survivor. Just like my goal is killing survivors and not letting you unhook them.
No, I'm not going to sit by a hook because that's a waste of time. But if you think the killer should go to the other side of the map when they have someone hooked you're just being an irrational child that needs to learn how to play better.
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@Ghostwithaface said:
Like i have no idea why that steamer, is so proud of themselves for escaping vs a legion that seems clearly new to the game. Like oh no, a experience person with who knows how many hours, beat a person who just picked up the game, that was really a challenge, oh wait no it wasn't. Like why are they being such a jerk? Makes no sense. Have they not heard of good sportsmanship?
You see this a lot in Smurfs for league of legends too. Some people who are only mediocre at a game can become really proud of themselves for doing well or even just above average, regardless if their opponent brand new to the game. They're so devoid of success they find it in a place that no one else would.