kit_mason
kit_mason
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@Elan said:
Changes:
→ Corrupt basekit
→ Deadlock basekit
→ Thanatophobia basekit (every injured survivor decrease efficiency by - 5 %)
→ 8 kick limit → 6 kick limit, 5 % → 15 %
→ lethal pursuer basekit
→ heal time 16 → 24s, self heal 24s→32s
→ basic attack cooldown 2.7s → 2.5s
→ remote pallet break basekit
→ once per survivor you are able to remote hook
Just quickly painting a picture, against plague playing with an optimal build:
Corrupt / Deadlock / 20% Stacked Thana / Pop (+15% from new basekit kicks) / Pain Res (that can be remote hooked to guarantee it) / Grim Embrace (instantly activates bc of remote hook) / Dead Man's Switch (which also instantly activates from either pain res or grim)
She doesn't need to properly play pallets because they can all be remotely broken. Her first chase is seconds in because of lethal. Her basic attacks are faster too. She's basically running 8 perks + buffed basekits, and that's before I brought addons into the mix. Plague is also not the strongest killer in the game. There's easily 10 or more killers better than her.
Genuinely, how would survivors not in a stacked to the nine hells, ultra-sweaty swf even approach beating this?
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Just dragging over the Revealed UI elements from 2v8 would be more than enough for this, it worked a treat, and as an Object of Obsession fanatic I can confirm how helpful being able to perk count around auras as an assurance is.
Great change, I hope BHVR does it.
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Whilst I agree, I think that Trapper is impossible to buff because of territorial basement strats the survivor playerbase won't find fun to see more often and have be even more potent. Myers has the same issue because of Tombstone - it's thematically perfect, but uninteractive enough that it can't risk being buffed.
I also think Nurse is near-impossible to nerf without making a new killer. You could remove aura usage from her kit entirely, but she'd still be the strongest killer in the game.
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956546#Comment_3956546
your average nurse is not getting many kills . Sure a top nurse can 4k everygame . However she is not acessible to everyone meaning an average match against an average nurse is ok . Don't listen to me tough as she is been like this for the entire games lifespan . The day we get a killer that is both acessible and super strong ( release ghoul ) that killer will indeed be nerfed . I'll you you why and it is because they will have a high pick rate and killrate so in your average match you will loose against X killer .
release ghoul is an awful example because kidnap tech has made bhvrs attempts at nerfing him largely unsuccessful (i say this as someone who has played plenty of kaneki).
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@Rick1998 said:
pick rates and killrates say otherwise . Insert ( x killer ) is overpowered because they beat me and i'm upset here .
You're right. Let's buff Nurse. Her pick rate is slightly below the 1/40 expectation of a game with 40 killers and her kill rate is hugely underperforming.
Unless, *just maybe*, there's more to killer balance than two contextless numbers we're given data on sparingly?
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955512#Comment_3955512
if we make them more available and have bigger range without compensation, you're affecting his overall map presence which will have to be buffed.
No, you won't. Singularity's map presence has always been reliant on survivors making mistakes. Buffing it just puts us back at square 1 by reintroducing less counterplay to a killer that can currently hold lobbies hostage, which to me is enough to show that he lacks significant counterplay right now.
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@Mandy said:
So whilst the number of cakes throughout any level has dropped slightly from last year - the issue was particularly relevant with Level 50 bloodwebs where often there were none of the offerings available, this is what we addressed.
Could we maybe have some insight on why the level has dropped?
On survivor especially, the rates of cakes have always felt low because of the shared pool with items. I'm unsure what the intent is behind a lowered rate.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955037#Comment_3955037
It would tho?
I mean, bad and WORSE players will of course still lose nonetheless but you're factually wrong to say that kick limit / hypothetical free UB would not be greatly hindering him.
Gen kick limit pretty much made 3 gen singularity a pretty beatable killer as long as survivors match the energy and have good enough coordination.
Fast re-downs wouldnt matter when people dont have to go out of their way to reset a dying survivor and will just reset / hide somewhere while you need to manage 4 ppl spread out instead of constantly grouping up.
And no, EMPs have not "been" or "are" useless. Theyre are extremely consistent and efficient at what they are doing. They just dont really do much about 3 gen and are more about stopping singularity from having cross map unlimited mobility or a chance to just insta TP to a survivor within effective range. Which is unfortunate, but I dont see this changing with Singularity both keeping a fair reward for the effort&skill and without making survivors wish they'd rather deal with occasional 3 genners because if EMPs were good at countering gen camping but bad at denying crossmap mobility, Singularity wouldn't need to 3 gen and would be a new S tier killer.
Blanket systems addressing edge case scenarios are the best solution to culling down outliners like singularity going out of his way to slug/defend 3 gen.
Wild idea. We make EMPs good at countering 3 genning and crossmap mobility, by upping their availability and range.
And, as I've said, the basekit systems work on the majority. The minority need to be brought in line one at a time, and Hux is a great example. EMPs were useless pre-buffs (their intended goal was to prevent Skull Merchant 2 and they failed miserably, a fact you agree with me on at least partially.)
TL;DR: EMPs should be a tool to deal with 3 genning. They aren't. So we have to fix that.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954512#Comment_3954512
I dont think I trust BHVR to fix singularity's core issues without murdering him and his unique multitasking management playstyle. If they try addressing his macro management, they'll easily end up actually dumbing him down into the pure chase killer some people make him out to be and it would be over for him. We could argue if they could or should do something, but IMO it's better if Singularity's problematic playstyles receive indirect nerfs in form of blanket systems and so on.
you're absolutely right though that most people have no idea how this killer even works let alone what to suggest to make him better.
all they know is that there is a killer they sometimes face and lose to and that's absolutely because the killer is "ridiculously over-tuned" and not because they like have no idea how to counter the killer let alone outplay the killer who most definitely is more than aware of how the character functions.
all you need to understand about these people competence on the matter is that they genuinely thought singularity was a bad worthless killer before the update and developers trivializing initial camera aiming and putting the addon everyone used into basekit made him OP even though nothing effectively changed, if anything, he got more counterplay because of them making overclock timings consistent and fair to survivor.
these people genuinely thought all the skill to singularity is aiming cameras and keeping track of people because your pov changed position rapidly.
they unironically claim EMPs were made useless because you cant just forget about printing and have to do something, you were already meant to do vs any singularity - go to the crates and finish the printing to ramp up EMP usage rate. for the reference - the only big nerfs to EMPs were in first 2 weeks of Singularity release and they mainly addressed the amount of EMPs (from 7 crates 80 second printing to 5 crates 90 second and eventually 4 crates 100 seconds) and the activation (longer delay - 2.5 seconds instead of 1.5 seconds and 10% slowdown so that you cant just pop the popsicle midchase in killer's face cuz it was way too easy).
Blanket systems aren't working to deal with him, though.
The Kick Limits, which largely addressed stall strategies in most of the roster, didn't harm his abilities at all. A self-pickup wouldn't do much to harm his slugging either, as his incredibly fast re-down is what makes that strategy so potent and a slugged survivor can't EMP their biopod away.
EMPs have been and remain to be useless. The addon pass he recieved that introduced Diagnostic Tool Repair made this fact even more blatant, as a singularity can watch his 3 gen from many angles beyond the range of a single EMP. Given they were constructed at their core to deal with territorial playstyles that survivors were already loudly in favor of reining in thanks to Skull Merchant being fresh off the press, their repeated nerfing to make them increasingly worthless at this task is baffling.
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Threads like this are always a waste of time. The majority of the playerbase hasn't ever had any skill correctly identifying Singularity's issues. They didn't pre-buff, so there's no way in hell the buff taught them anything.
He needs changes that specifically and surgically cut him out of being central to the uninteractive strats the game has. 3 genning and slugging especially - he's such a major piece in both of those strats - he's so incredible at 3 genning that the Kick Limit, which was largely successful, doesn't stop him.
Unfortuantely, most people I've seen discuss it want his chase gutting, which would force him into the uninteractive stuff. It's a sorry state for my main to be in, really. He's doomed to never again see how close he was to perfectly balanced pre-buff.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954409#Comment_3954409
Nah, man. My games are over in about 5-6 minutes either way. I either tunnel someone out and snowball into a win or gens get done.
I've been aiming for first kill hook 7 for about a year now, and my games feel exactly the same before and after. Different regions or times of day, perhaps? Maybe the late night players are just easier to win against than whenever you're playing.
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I haven't noticed a difference in overall game length, the difference seemingly is just that survivors are doubling or tripling earlygame gens which is less progress than it was before, it just feels like more because the number in the bottom left is lower.
It's understandable to get mindgamed by that number being lower but I think it's best to recognize when a gen's been doubled and know it means you're still at an advantage because the other gens are low.
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@Zuiphrode said:
There's literally no gameplay reason to do so other than teabagging which is toxic behavior. I'd like for teabagging to just be bannable entirely under the poor sportsmanship report reason but that'll never happen so I'll settle for this.
They'd just bag you immediately outside the exit gate.
BM will always happen, survivors will always find some tell to say they think you're garbage.
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I think burnout is a huge part of it.
The game doesn't give anyone a chance to breathe anymore. The new Quest system feels even more restrictive in how you complete the Rift than before, and the constant onslaught of LTMs with FOMO rewards means players don't feel like they can disconnect from the game because they want to get the rewards for content. And from the perspective of a BHVR Executive, this system works. It maintains player retention at higher rates than if you let players take breaks when they need them.
But because you don't let players take breaks when they need them, players are getting burnt out. They're playing a game they aren't having fun in anymore, and it's leading to sabotaging behaviours such as Go Next.
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I can't believe we're having to have ANOTHER P2W Skin conversation, after Were-Elk (which keeps re-bugging), Tomie and Tiffany.
At some point BHVR will account for it when making skins. Until then - yes, please make this skin louder.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946142#Comment_3946142
- You're right. It's not "silent." But unless you're wearing headphones with the audio all the way up, you're not hearing the "hisssss" of the doors opening.
- If you're hearing his steps, he's already on top of you.
- Doesn't work when the door is facing at an awkward angle.
But if it's soooooo obvious already, then I'm sure you'll have no problem making it obvious to all survivors at all angles from the door with a big red light on top and a loud buzzing sound as the door opens… right?
Oh, my mistake. I didn't realise you just wanted to sarcastically complain. I figured we were having an actual conversation. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945081#Comment_3945081
I'm sorry, is silently teleporting three steps away from you with no warning "balanced" now?
…yes?
- It's not silent
- He's not silent either
- The doors literally have a visual cue to show that he's using them
Do you think dredge teleporting to an unlocked locker is the most OP thing in the entire game? Just to get a read on the type of balance we're lookin at here.
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He feels balanced which is novel enough compared to the other killer releases this last year that people are going to have to get used to the feeling.
I'd prefer if BHVR didn't touch him at all, it'd risk overshooting and making him less healthy than he is now.
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Its niche but I'm totally fine with Iridescent addons being weird, niche twists on a killer's source material or existing power.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942138#Comment_3942138
You have to count that there are 14 perk slots on survivor side, while only 4 slots on killer side. So cap is a solution, but killer must have higher cap than survivors. Let's say, that haste over 10 % won't stack on survivor side, while killer can stack up to 30 % haste.
The limits should, in my opinion, be 14% for survivor and 18% for killer.
14% allows for existing comboed hastes to stack (po2 + bp) but no further than that, and 18% allows for many setups that give 10% + 5% + 3% (which is actually a pretty common setup, clown yellow bottles with bonus + rapid, singularity with rapid and unbound, etc etc) but no further than that.
it puts killers and survivors both at something like "2 perks or 1 perk and an addon, and basekit hastes, but thats it.", evening the field for both and allowing room for bhvr to make new haste effects now they cant stack past these limits, without removing existing builds many players have signalled they're a big fan of.
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DBD is better in some ways, worse in others. I think the community has worsened a LOT this last few years, with the go next meta continuing to embolden and an uptick in toxicity compared to a few years ago.
But I do think that, outside of maybe a couple of duds this last eight months with killer balance decisions (I don't like how noncomittal the Kaneki nerfs have been and I think the Oni changes kind of ruined him bc he takes no skill now, plus Houndmaster is still so buggy she borders on unplayable despite being a very strong killer) and this patch being very buggy, the game's in a solid state. The Freddy rework went really well, Lake Mine's a fun map, Springtrap seems exceptionally well-balanced outside of literally one addon and some bugs that'll get ironed out for live, we got original trans rep and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.
Hopefully the QoL changes are good for the game so I can add it to a list of good when someone makes a post like this a year from now.
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@Elan said:
It's time to dive into another topic and that is base game movement speed that hasn't really changed in a while. Killers been getting some nice buffs, some of them nerfs. But to get killer more in line, the base movement speed should be revisited to give killers bit of more map traverse.
NOW
Survivor base movement speed: 100 % = 4m/s
Killer base movement speed: 115% = 4.6m/s, 110 % = 4.4m/s, 3.9 = 3.9m/s
Option 1: Decrease survivor base movement speed to 3.8m/s
Option 2: Give every killer 0,2m/s increased base movement speed = 115→120, 110→115, 90→95…
Option 3 (least interesting): grant various hastes through the game to killers - when hooking, when kicking gens, when breaking pallets…
This would destroy all of the balance work that's been done so far.
Get killer more in line with… what? Not needing to outplay proper play anymore because you've foundationally broken the way survivors play the game?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3941344#Comment_3941344
I think the fundamental problem of map balance is the strength of the survivor team is directly correlated to the maps via available pallets and windows and how much the unique structures matter to each particular killer… with nearly 40 killer powers to compensate for the idea of "map balance" is pretty much a pipe dream.
A great example of this is Singularity, who is a very strong killer, but struggles mightily of a number of maps where most killers thrive (such as Midwich), and does amazing on maps that a lot of killers really struggle (such as Ormond).
So with that in mind when you say "Find another way to let survivors go after map related achievements in the long run"… what else could you possibly do? Choosing a map is binary… you either allow it or you don't… I think having the maps not be guaranteed is a good way to help push towards allowing pursuit of map achievements and challenges, while also making it difficult to abuse them… I can't really envision a different system that doesn't allow players to go whole hog…
So I think the proposed system is the best you can get… all I'm really debating is numbers. I'd compromise on one change or the other, not necessarily both… have rejected map offerings return OR bump the 20% to 33%… but 20% chance and you lose the offering as well… that's pretty poo… :/
My suggestion has always been to make a rate-up map rotation, because I see it as the best compromise.
Achievements can be gone for when a map is increased rates in the rotation, and BHVR can balance maps in the rotation to not cause a set that favors one side or one strat.
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Honestly, they should stop dancing around trying to make map offerings work and just delete them. Find another way to let survivors go after map related achievements in the long run.
Maps just aren't evenly balanced enough to let Map Offerings not be a way to tip the scales.
In the meantime though, sure, let ppl who failed to get their map keep the offering. It didn't benefit them in the end.
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It feels like a genuine numerical error. 75 basic attacks, presuming you go only for healed survivors with an m1 only killer, is 4 games.
If anything goes wrong its many more than that, and all of this work is for half a rift tier. Not even one.
@vol4r said:
Can we normalize harder challenge completion? I want harder survivior quests too.
75 hit challenge is fine.
You're confusing difficulty for tedium.
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937759#Comment_3937759
DDon't Touch Larry
I've been advocating for these buffs to not happen since before they happened. I'm going to continue advocating for many of them to go away, especially given he was already potent at 3 genning pre-buff.
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Merchant was replaced by Singularity when his buffs from last year went out. Unless he gets nerfed back down and the original issues with his power as a lockdown tool get addressed, the kick limit system cannot be removed.
Besides, do you really need 8 regression events to maintain pressure? With surge that's, what? 64% of a gen?
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i miss when bait was fun.
as a tip - ground it in reality next time. the best lies have a kernel of truth to them.
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He seems fine! Well-balanced, from the outset, and expressive to boot with his axe being able to be thrown fully vertically to let you get some really wild arcs.
Hopefully they keep him within this ballpark of strength and expressiveness when he makes it onto Live.
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You're right.
Let's turn off the endgame chat too.
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This is hugely stepping on Object of Obsession's toes, albeit it is a much weaker effect to avoid the sometimes-downside of a periodic aura exchange.
That said, Premonition could do with being brought into modern DBD. I'd be interested to see how this perk plays out.
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He's still far too strong.
He needs "kidnap tech" - the mini-stun and the increased vault speed when enraged - entirely removing. He also needs an increase recovery time from him cancelling out of kagune leap without grabbing a survivor, to make whipping directly behind a survivor worse. This should put him in the position he's meant to be in - an easy injure, a difficult down, unless he can use his power well by landing an effective bodyblock on key material.
This makes him more expressive, makes vsing him more interactive, and makes it easier and clearer to punish him with material. With these nerfs I'm even fine removing the "pallet break = lost charges" interaction, since I think that was a strange alteration to his power anyway.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930337#Comment_3930337
People are just frustrated that it affects the fun of the match, they shouldn't gain benefits from the lag which is the issue, regardless if its out of their control or not.
Agreed.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930334#Comment_3930334
Chances are there is always one zoomy killer and one setup killer
We shouldn't balance under that presumption though. Every killer in 2v8 deserves maximal viability, no?
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@imabakedpot8o said:
I've begun reporting everyone above 150ms. No excuses. Hope BHVR has fun with every report sent their way. It is exploiting to gain a competitive advantage. BAN EM
Horrendous take. If you don't live in a region with good server availability (which is a lot of the world) what are you meant to do to rectify that? Get banned for being born in the wrong place?
I agree high ping hugely benefits one side more than the other, but the fix should be to make higher ping less beneficial on outcome, not ban people that live in the wrong place.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I like the idea as it forces killers to actually win chases and kill and not just starve survivors to death
they didn't really hit a good balance, though.
pallet reconstruction is so easy to do that it lets survivors safe play the same material over and over to no punishment rather than a mistake actually costing the team.
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She's fairly weak once players know how to manage their time in matches, but she likely commands enough power in new player lobbies that buffing her gets complicated quickly.
Still, if the devs find a good way to buff her, I'd like to see it. Maybe something for Ambushing?
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I think improvements to matchmaking could help alleviate differences in efficiency, because I do think survivors wasting time doing basically nothing is a huge contributor to match outcomes. Possibly the second largest, after morale (which needs to be addressed just as much, as its causing the "go next meta"').
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Recommenting on this thread to confirm that this bug still happens in the current edition of 2v8, released 15th May 2025.
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I think honestly Artist is so close to perfect that any changes risk overshooting and ending up further away from the goal than when you started.
Leave her be, I say.
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Most of the time, yes!
I've eased up on how much I play this patch just whilst i wait for deathslinger's bugs to get ironed out but yeah, game fun ^-^
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@Nomade said:
Why is this devolving into a balance discussion? arent we just supposed to be giving our reasons for having stopped playing killer?
My reason has been deemed unacceptable by some of those in this thread so I'm being told I'm not allowed to feel the way I do.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925748#Comment_3925748
honestly, if they only nerfed her synergy with aura perks she'd be perfectly balanced..And then you have...Blight that has quite some problematic aspects.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924039#Comment_3924039
alright i will bite. If you said plain unhealthy this would maybe be true (Tombstone Myers for example - not strong but unbelievably unhealthy) but acting like killers have been overbuffed when not only 99% of buffed killers aren't really strong at high levels at all, many killers are basically unplayable due to bugs.
I would definitely want to know what "strong" killers you are playing
I main Singularity. I don't think that's a surprise, given the profile picture.
I'm not going to give you any more listings to use as ammo than that, sorry. And before you start a balance discussion, I don't want to have one. I warned this website that the Hux buffs last year would create a killer that's too strong, and I undersold it - he's even stronger than even I feared he'd be. So save your breath on trying to get your main fixed. Oni players deserve that much.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925989#Comment_3925989
Thats not a problem with singularity. EMPs are extremly powerful against him. That is an issue with survivors refusing to use EMPs aggressively and intelligently. Teams that actually use the EMPs like they are supposed to can prevent him from actually using his power allmost the entire game. If you dont use the emps you are gonna get crushed and thats just the way it is.
EMPs havent done anything in nearly two years. They were designed to stop 3 genning and were nerfed so concretely that they can't do that.
Also, for OP: We could've killed Hux's gen guarding capabilities with his last buffset, by also buffing EMP ranges and availability. But nah, people said they didn't play him because he felt too weak so we had to keep EMPs in the dirt and buff him at the same time. But hey! At least his pick rate has gone up- what's that? It hasn't? Oh, well that sucks.
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@lord_of_dogs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924039#Comment_3924039
You are the only soul that thinks this way. There are no “overtuned” killers except for nurse.
I never made a claim that anyone else thinks this way.
The post asked why people stopped playing killer. I answered with my reason.
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@lord_of_dogs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924746#Comment_3924746
What are you talking about (I can sense you are a survivor main, your opinion is not necessary)
Your post! And this comment too now. It's my sincere belief you're trying to bait hugely negative reactions with this post rather than making a statement that wants to make material improvements to the game.
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truly immaculate bait.
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Overbuffing.
Most of the killers I went to play are now unhealthily strong. It takes all the fun out of it.
My hope is that BHVR reins in the killers I main just a tad so I can play them again, though!
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ive had multiple colorblind friends tell me the Rare and Very Rare colors look identical to them.
so we've made a change that actively worsens clarity. revert it.
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@Neaxolotl said:
There really is nothing that tells he got overbuffed, feeling unrewarding and winning many times isn't anything special to strong killer so it's merely a personal experience
is this… not a problem too? if killer's expectation is to feel unrewarding, is that not an issue?