jezebelthenun
jezebelthenun
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@milkanesa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756217#Comment_3756217
YES
I've been angry and sad about this for a very long time. I've known and loved the game for a few years, but got a chance to actually start playing myself a few months ago. I've watched streams and YouTube videos and even saw friends play, and there were unwritten community rules that made the game fair. I thought it would be a safe space to play, since my biggest fear of online games is the possibility of facing cruel people, but it's far for safe. I mostly get this while playing as a killer, maybe I'm trying a new character that's hard to use and I'm adjusting or maybe it's just a terrible day for me but I sometimes I kill no one, and loose them easily. that wouldn't make me mad per se, the thing is their way of playing is just toxic and unfair. and also, as a survivor I've played against killers that tunneled or camped the whole game, making it impossible. what happened to having fun during the game? oh and my new nightmare: the final chat. it's terrible. I've read truly horrible things that made me cry and take a break from the game for a while.
I'm really sorry this has been your experience in the game. It CAN be fun, but it's suck a luck of the draw situation that it borders on not worth it some days. If I'm having a rough mental health day, I don't even load the game up, honestly.
I hope it gets better, truly. Maybe find a good group to play with for fun, casual games. Otherwise, it's going to be more stressful and mean than fun, I'm afraid. -
Pinhead: Ugh, so unfun. Literally everything about playing against cenobite is annoying and eyeroll worthy.
Dixter: they're usually jerks. Slugging the last surv and refusing to hook them even right next to a hook is prime dixter behavior.
Knight: see dixter, but more annoying "music"
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
I'm unsure if the collision while cloaked should be removed or not.
Getting vaults / pallets blocked by his hitbox while he is cloak is annoying. especially since the hitbox of the blocking doesn't match the visual representation.
On the other hand, you can no longer bodyblock him to save other teammates if he has no longer have any collision
especially since the hitbox of the blocking doesn't match the visual representation.
Ah, the age old issue that will never get fixed no matter how much we beg. . . Hit boxes
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You can hear him snarling and snotting all over the place, even with silent bell, and he's not invisible You just have to be alert and always scan surroundings. If you see his blur or hear his asthma, GTFO of there and head to a tile. It takes him a little time to uncloak no matter what, so use it to your advantage.
I honestly never thought I'd see a nerf wraith post. Did I get pranked by answering?
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@HaunterofShadows said:
What does a dbd community mean for me? Absolutely nothing. And I believe that should be the case everybody. No point in caring about strangers you've never seen before and will likely never see again.
Same thing applies to having standards and norms. No point in upholding norms if they hinder your experience. May as well make your own.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756660#Comment_3756660
The difference between real communities and gaming communities, is that one consists of people who know or support each other on a basic level, while the other is just a massive crowd of strangers with no reason to care about each other.
The difference between real communities and gaming communities, is that one consists of people who know or support each other on a basic level, while the other is just a massive crowd of strangers with no reason to care about each other.
I guess it boils down to the definition of community for me there. And personally, I don't need a reason to care about people, online or otherwise. I find it difficult to understand your point of view here. Not arguing it, just hard to wrap my head around it.
Is it ok if I ask your age demographic? Im curious if my age theory is at play regarding the difference in how we think?
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I think hag is really interesting and unique, one of the few killers in the game that can be said about.
Unfortunately, as others have said, people don't want to play the way she's designed to play. It's meant to be a longer, slower game, all in all, with more thought and effort in the early game, and more action in the later game stages. The current player base wants the exact opposite of that. Killer mains (a generalization, not meant as literally all killer mains) want to destroy survivors as quickly as possible with as little thought or effort as possible. They want the game to play itself for the most part, and afford them a devastating win in the process. It's why knight was so popular for a while. Without complete map control and speed, killers are bored and angry. Like kids who can't watch movies with a plot because their brain is trained for the instant gratification of tik-toks and youtube shorts.
(Yes, there's some satirical and cynical stuff going on in this post) -
@Rulebreaker said:
Community for us is the playerbase as a whole. Survivors and killers, streamers and potatoes, are all part of this community. How the community should relate to each other is to try keep the game fun and alive for the general players. That's the purpose, goal, mission, whatever you want to call it.
We probably should have some community standards but since the only people who would be able to enforce that is themselves...that's not even touching the fact everyone has possibly radically different standards.
We probably should have some community standards but since the only people who would be able to enforce that is themselves...that's not even touching the fact everyone has possibly radically different standards.
It used to exist on a much more widespread level, where, in general, people agreed on definitions of things like tunneling and gen-rushing, and certain playstyle were possible, but agreed upon as pretty gross or toxic by the larger community. It changed dramatically right around when crossplay was implemented, and it became a much more self-centered game of "efficiency over fun". It's definitely continued down that path, much to the chagrin of many who played before it all went batty.
I'm definitely of the opinion that gaming communities are real communities and should have similar standards in and out of game. We're all people, not just screen names. Unfortunately, the larger a community gets, and the younger the members are in online/gaming communities (hot take maybe) the less likely it is to be kind or compassionate, usually. Those who grew up in the anonymity of the internet seem to be much less likely to care about the people on the other side of their screen.This has just been my experience, and it's just my opinion, though. Hopefully others have had better overall experiences with forums and communities like this.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756210#Comment_3756210
What turned you off about the event? Seemed pretty fun to me.
It was the fact that even with its own game mode, people were intentionally denying other players a fun game by sweating extra hard and being extra toxic. Tunneling and slugging, and ultra clicky sabo squads. . . it was nightmare mode.
With 5 cakes in play, you'd think people might try to be a little more casual and get as many points as possible for everyone, but it was the exact opposite. It often felt like denying other people fun and BP was the ultimate goal. It felt like a waste of offerings, but then people would scream if you didn't put a cake in. All in all, a perfect example of how the player meta is trending ever downward towards "eff everyone else".
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@Neaxolotl said:
At least we should stop pretending throwing the game is somehow fine, it's stupid
As in DCing/unaliving yourself on hook? Like you'd like to see that as an agreed upon standard?
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Poor Trappy. I personally feel like he's one of the most fun killers in the game, but most people think killer should be able to ex win without any thought or effort :(
Its nice to see Hag in the middle, though. She usually gets low tiers.
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Casual mode. Literally the game, but a specific mode for people who aren't interested in sweaty try hard matches and just want to play the game like normal people. Sweating in casual mode is reportable.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755854#Comment_3755854
they haven't "lost" them, they got rid of them. "They" being Bhvr. - The DBD dev team certainly lost them since I doubt they had much of a say in it.
That being said - I do think the game after 5.1 is a very different one from before then and has been on a certain trajectory since. From what I can tell the devs like that direction and want to continue to go in that direction. As games change so does who want to play it. If I started now, I would have given it a try but it'd never have stuck. Games change, people change. Sometimes that means someone who used to be the target audience isn't the target audience anymore.
If I started now, I would have given it a try but it'd never have stuck.
1000% this
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The problem isn't the game, it's the player base. In all honesty, everything started going to crap with crossplay, and it's getting worse and worse as time goes on.
There used to largely be a sort of social norms/mores agreement to the game. Not official rules, per se, but things that were widely understood as foul play or bad manners. Things were well defined and viewed on a community level. Now that concept is laughed at and disparaged, making the experience another internet trollscape akin to COD and Fortnite. The here-to-stay meta is about selfishness under the guise of "efficiency".
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So if the one person escapes, the match is over? Can we sabo the other survivors too?
It sounds so fun in theory, but it would be so toxic in practice.
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Surv: If any 2 of my teammates escape, even if I'm dead,I feel like it's a win, even if it's not the actual win conditions. If I find and escape through hatch, it's a personal win lol.
Killer: If I kill 2 people I feel very vindicated, but 3 feels like a win. I'm a lot more likely to play casual fun as a killer though and care less about winning overall.
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I came very close, but was turned off by the event and played a lot less than I'd originally planned. Wanted to get my New to P100, and got her to P97 by event's end. Going to hit P100 today though!
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I'm unsure of how this could increase tunneling at all, honestly. Tunneling is something that is 100% intentional, and almost impossible to do accidentally (Injured clone squads are really the only way I can think of to accidentally tunnel someone). You can't really accidentally chase someone who was just unhooked. The only way to tunnel is to ignore everyone else and try to down the same person again.
Running into the same person after they've left the area or after you've chased other people or kicked some gens is a bummer, but it's not a tunnel.
I've wanted visible hook states for killers forever. I've accidentally killed people far too many times due to thinking they were on 2 but they were really on 3. I always feel like a jerk when it happens.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753080#Comment_3753080
How dare you relegate the experiences of SA victims to the same level as something happening in a video game. The utmost shame on you, how disgusting.
Im sure you're outraged.
The point was victim blaming. It's ok if you want to act like you care. I just don't believe you.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753088#Comment_3753088
That would be awesome!
I have actually thought of a killer that could shapeshift into the survivor it hits, and mimic being a survivor just to attack another xD I thought of it being as a basic shape, a mirror morph.
Let's get DBD's attention and make all of this! :D
Yeah! It's funny because a while back I was talking about a shapeshift killer with an ability similar to the perk Mirrored illusion, where the killer could glamour into one of the survivors in a match (it's original form is kind of nondescript and faceless) and the closer you got, the more the effect faded and the terror radius would be really small in Glamour mode. When the perk came out I was pretty shocked, then sad it was for survivor.
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@RhodosGuard said:
Across this thread I get the feeling that a survivor that is intentionally sandbagging their team is upset that a killer rather takes the easy kill they provide than put effort into chasing people that actually get involved in chases?
This games community is all black and white, and in absolute denial about their own "sides" shortcomings.
"Everything the other side does is toxic, everything my side does they need to do to have a chance to win"
It feels like BHVR more often sides with Survivors though.
That's why Anti-Tunneling Perks become baseline, but Regression Perks get nerfed.
I am tired of the "Tunnelling sucks" discussion.
Yes. Some people Tunnel because it's the most effective way to play. Either deal with it, or at least start packing DS.
Some people Tunnel because the same person keeps making themselves their target. Maybe by, I dunno, playing the Lute next to chests?
And people who dont Tunnel are still subjected to everything Survivors deem neccessary to win, but are equally unfun for Killers.
I still predict that if we stay on the current course, we soon get baseline DS.I run otr personally. And your response is largely not what I was referencing in the op. I'm talking about purposely chasing the person who was unhooked to take them out of the game, ie tunneling off hook. There's no sandbagging in tunneling. There's no accidents in tunneling. It's a very specific and intentional thing.
I went into more detail in the definition of gen rushing thread, but I'm fine with just bumping into the killer later and being chased again. If dude did literally anything else in between me being unhooked and chasing me again, I don't consider it tunneling.
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Lets get this paired with a shape shifter killer. I'm on board
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752672#Comment_3752672
Are you?
Go ahead and prove it if you can.
Are you asking for videos or? Like, sir, what are you doing here? This has some serious "What were you wearing when it happened" vibes.
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@kosaba11 said:
Speaking as someone who plays both sides extensively, being able to instantly down a survivor is not fair. Some one hit downs, like Oni, Michael, and Ghostface, can be sort've excused, since it has to build up, but even then - there's very little to no counter play.
And I get it, the defensive will be "GeT gOoD", but when a killer, like, say, Bubba, can instantly down you with no build up, where not even a palette can help you, there's a big problem. Looping only delays the inevitable.
Do you mean any exposed status isn't fair, or just power related one-hits? Like do you think Devour is unfair?
Not judging, just looking for clarification.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753060#Comment_3753060
That's probably just survivors not even doing the gen, I suppose
Objectively speaking, there is no way everyone is slugged within 1 gens done, the slowdown is absolute minimum for slugging and invitation helps only so much for it
Not to mention the risk of everyone getting back with event power, the fact you'll match with slugging killers that much is ridiculous, are you sure survivors are not swarming into killers to do tomes or something
I'm sure its a mixture of these issues. Hook rushing, too. It's not all killer related in the slightest, but the slugging has been abysmal. I literally thanked a killer in EGC today because he downed me and ran off to find others, but came back and hooked me. That shouldn't be as rare as it is.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752995#Comment_3752995
If it's a skill issue, why am I being matched against killers that are clearly far better than me and my teammates?
Are you talking about the event mode or regular? Event mode has no actual matchmaking, it seems.
Honestly regular matchmaking kinda sucks too though. It's been a commonly discussed problem for a while.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752995#Comment_3752995
Yeah, even if you simply ignore first hooked person it should ends at 3 gen remaining minimum
This has not been the case during the event in my experience. It's not every game, but I'd put it at 25-33% are 4 person slugs at 4 or 5 gens. It's objectively pretty bad right now. I'm reserving my overall judgement though until a week or two after the event. I'm hoping everything calms back down with regular matchmaking.
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@Caiman said:
In my experience in soloQ, if a survivor is downed and hooked before one generator is finished, that's usually the sign that we aren't going to win. I assume other people feel the same so they just cut to the chase and let themselves die instead of trying to fight the inevitable snowball.
But then you miss out on the opportunity to make a great underdog tale! It might not be commonplace, but when it happens it's a damned rush itellyouwhut
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@Grumblephant said:
Tbh, I'd rather have people rush doing gens than follow me around with flashies and just being jerks. At least the game would be over sooner than spending 20+ minutes eating pallets and blinds.
A million upvotes to this.
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@Zboard said:
In normal matches? Yes, agree
In the event? Considering the sweat i face as a soloq? I just go in, do my challenge and just stop trying. The amount of sweat is insane, for some reason. Slugging, tunneling and ofc bad matchmaking. So there is no point trying.
I tried/played normally when event started, and out of 20 matches i escaped 2/3, rest were miserable and a waste of time. I also dont use cakes anymore during the event, that is where we are at :)
Soloq can definitely suck, I know. But dipping out just because you got what you wanted out of the match is part of why soloq has a negative stigma and people treat us like crap. The experience is harrowing enough without bad apple behavior making it worse on the rest of us.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752954#Comment_3752954
If those are the only requirments for "gen-rushing", this essentially implies that if any gen progress is made before "X" amount of hooks, it is gen-rushing, regardless. Regardless of perks, items, map pressure etc. I'm sorry, I just am struggling to find the logic in that, as that could imply that repairing gens- at all is gen-rushing. Even if those survivors are playing with no items or perks of any kind, it would be considered gen-rushing.
Exactly. Apparently a lot of people now believe that's the definition. Things are batty nowadays.
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@RhodosGuard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752974#Comment_3752974
The problem is that chases need to come to some conclusion.
I can exit a chase after getting a hit, a down or a hook.
But these things need time.
If I intentionally limit the time I need for each change, because I have to fear losing gens to fast every single game, then on some killers, chases will not be winnable.
During a chase 3 people work on gens.
If a survivor is on hook, at most 2 people work on gens.
If I manage to get a chase going as people struggle to get the unhook, then only 1 person may work on gen.
I can admit that limiting how long you chase is important, and knowing when you are over-chasing is also important, but my main objective is still getting kills. And Slowdown is important to get Kills, but Killers have more fun doing the thing that directly benefits their main objective, and that's winning chases.
By allowing such a huge variance in how fast/slow gens can be repaired, the element of slowdown and gen pressure now seems like it overtakes chases and getting hits in importance. Which is why people ran Regression perks during peak-repair times. And why people are running even more of them post regression nerfs.
It allows for slowdown that synergizes with Hooks and Chases.It definitely sets limits, and requires thought and effort to balance, but I feel like it's a big part of the fun. I struggle with the mindset that the game is supposed to be easy, for either side. I don't think I'll ever quite understand how demolishing a match, as killer OR survivor is fun for someone. (Silly farming matches not withstanding) When it happens to me, I find it boring and apologize in chat because clearly the matchmaking really messed up. If you don't have to try, how is it fun?
Sorry for the tangent, but it's something that baffles me, and it's not directed at you specifically. I appreciate your point of view.
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@MrPenguin said:
Depends on who you ask.
Imo and to many it's when the survivors are being super efficient on gens. Splitting on gens at the start, getting 3 done in the first chase, getting on a gen the moment the killer even looks away from the area ect.
To others you need an entire dedicated build to be gen rushing. Which to me feels strange because it's not like you need a "tunnel build" or killer (like Executioner) to be considered doing the killer objective "too efficiently".
It feels strange because they aren't comparable.
2 people doing 1 gen with no toolboxes or perks get a gen done in just under a minute if uninterrupted. As a killer, you have the ability to interrupt them at any time without additional perks or addons. It's just a matter of finding them. If you're chasing a different survivor, you have choices. Commit or patrol. Gen pressure is important. I think moreso than early hooks, but that's just my opinion and I can see how others might disagree.
For tunneling, it's not nearly as counterable, and requires extras to be avoided, and then only for a short duration. You have to assume it's going to happen and build for it ahead of time or you're SOL.
Regardless of whether or not the definition is solely "efficiency" for both as you say, they're not the same or even similar, based on counterability.
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I want Ormond to only show up if you bleed on the mattress.
MAKE IT SO BHVR!
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@Senaxu said:
Additionally, please show all profiles as anonymous or show fully all profiles. no longer either/or.
The fact that the killer can always check out every single survivor and the survivors don't have this option is just stupid.
There should be nothing visible or everyone.Does streamer mode not do this?
Genuinely asking.
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I think you'll probably have a little more fun in swfs, yeah. Just try not to turn into clicky clicky sabo body blocker swf. It's easy to fall into it because it's easy in a group, but I don't think it improves the game. If you keep it goal oriented and fun, it'll be an improvement.
Good luck!
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^ I don't thinks it's been updated in a while actually, but it's the best resource I found.
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@JoeyfromLegion said:
And are we sure that it exists in those maps?
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This is absolutely wild. Reading so many of these and I'm just flabbergasted.
The og definition of gen-rushing, and my current definition still, is multiple survivors using builds, equipment, and add ons to literally "rush" the gens. Usually more than one survivor to a generator. Rushing = hurrying with urgency.
What it's not is one person doing a gen with a BNP or a toolbox. It's not 2 survivor doing a gen normally. It's not just playing the game. It's build and purpose.
Tunneling is purposely chasing the most recently unhooked survivor with the intent to remove them from the game as quickly as possible. Intent is a big piece of tunneling, but it's almost impossible to accidentally tunnel unless the survivors all dress alike, which they sometimes do.
What's not is happening to run into the same survivor after they've gotten away, or after you've chased someone else, or attempted to play the game in any other way besides chasing them off hook.
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That running Devour every game is a good strategy for winning as any killer.
Ah, those halcyon glory days.
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Its all indicative of a bigger problem, which is there's no real incentive to play the actual game for either side. People want to either slaughter the opposition, or cry foul. Get downed once? DC or ######### on hook. Down a survivor? Tunnel, or depending on you killer, slug all 4 quick to a 4k.
There are no important consequences to being scummy. There's no real incentive not to be. It's all "allowed" in the game.
Not sure how to implement meaningful changes to it, personally, either. I have no solution. It's just a sad symptom of the asymmetrical game with an online player base.
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What's interesting is that I've seen DCs/suicides equally from Swfs and soloq this event.
I've come to realize in the short time since I made an account here that a lot of the people who play DBD are just gross, selfish, garbage trolls who will defend their childish behavior to the ends of the Earth because they're online.
I'm just going to play casually from now on and not give any effs. It's the only way to enjoy the game now.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752666#Comment_3752666
Oh, maybe there was some misunderstanding. I'll rephrase in another way.
The game is balanced so that a "fair"(as fair as DBD can be) match is solo queue. If running in a SWF, it is an "unfair" advantage as the game is balanced around expecting random people, not cherry picking all good teammates, syncing builds, and potentially in coms which pseudo adds many extra perks.
So you agree with my point? Or saying you disagree with that?
"Because it's definitely in favor of swfs."
I agree. Basically what I was saying in my original statement.
Yeah, I agree with you for sure. Thanks for clarifying!
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Its hilarious that half of the conversations right now are about getting 4k as fast as possible and not dragging out the game, and the other half is people being told to waste everyone's time carrying objects to map edges.
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@Neaxolotl said:
It's quite weird some people believe slugging prolong the game, but the fact is, survivors do and absolutely will camp in the hatch for 10 minutes
Most of the time, going for 4k ends up faster
Yeah, and that's scummy too. The hatch thing, I mean. Seems like a lot of DBD players are unsocialized internet kids, honestly, on both sides.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/417898/event-tunneling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7FFpVpgRY
Prove it or stow the anecdotal preaching.
Um. . . You ok?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751890#Comment_3751890
I play solo queue almost strictly. Anyone that thinks the game is balanced around SWF I don't think understands the games balance very well. The game is not balanced around bypassing matchmaking much less having coms.
Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by balanced around. I took it as you saying "in favor of", which is wacky. Because it's definitely in favor of swfs.
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@Sudoxxed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751870#Comment_3751870
Not really. If you login during the event, you get 50k bloodpoints for free. That's more than enough to level up a character and get cakes, not to mention the several codes you can redeem to get bloodpoints.
I hate people who spend more hours posting on the forums instead of playing the game.
Aww, someone's salty again.
This forum is wild.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751998#Comment_3751998
If it is effective towards winning then it is a strategy... I don't think it is selfish to play to win. Also typically for the killer it is not fun to drag out the game for no reason..
I don't think that the killer has any obligation to provide you with a certain length of a match or the opportunity for you to enjoy the game, that is basically fully your responsibility...
I really don't see your point... If that was the most effective thing to do that moment to win, then why should it matter whether you guys has fun during it? He is just doing his job in that sense...
Also telling people to grow up while demanding they play the way you want them to because otherwise they are selfish is peak irony ;)
My "grow up" is aimed at ggez u mad bros who think it's fun to be jerks and ruin everyone else's game on purpose. Doing that is entirely immature and selfish. Literally childish. If actually playing the game is considered drawing it out by the majority, then DBD is officially only for trolls.
And I'm pretty sure most people want to play the actual game, so I'd hardly call it "my way".
The fact that I even have to defend my stance of don't be scummy is really saying something.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750605#Comment_3750605
Your issue is, you seem to think everyone has the same idea of what's fun.
You might find farming bp fun. I find stomping survs into the ground with the least amount of generators repaired fun.
So, literally bullying. Got it. Sounds like a therapy problem.
To add to this, I'm not talking about farming. I'm talking about actually getting to play the game and enjoy it, like everyone who has ever bought a video game in the history of video games. That's the objective fun of video games. You'd be frustrated too if every time you downed a survivor, the game kicked you out. In fact, you'd probably be enraged. That's exactly what happens to the people you tunnel, just for existing in a game they like to play. -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/418729/slugging-at-5-gens-is-unnecessary
The other side of the coin is that it might feel like the killer dragged the match on if he didn't just slug there... You will not win either and the gameplay would feel kind of meaningless, that's basically a lose lose situation for the killer, people will dislike whatever he does.
Id much rather have gameplay, even if I'll lose no matter what. Chase people, down them, hook them, repeat. Play the actual game, not main character simulator. How do people not understand the fun of the game. And no, it's not subjective. It's a game where 5 people want to play. Removing that ability for 4 people as quickly as possible isn't strategy, it's selfish egotism.
I'm not arguing if it's not technically BMing or considered reportable. I'm not arguing that it exists in the game so therefore it can be done. I'm arguing that it is objectively reprehensible to be that much of a jerk on purpose because your BP and score are the only thing that matter to you.
Playing to win doesn't equal being the only one allowed to have fun. People need to grow up a little.