jesterkind
jesterkind
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Skull Merchant isn't a cyborg, though...?
I'm like 99% sure that's a mech arm that she's wearing, not a part of her body.
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I kinda feel like everyone who got so invested in the idea of a cyborg/cybernetic killer that they became convinced it was definitely coming has nobody to blame but themselves. It was a cool idea, but it was just one possibility of what the teasers could mean- basically just a guess.
BHVR are not to blame here.
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I don't see how this chapter hints towards that. The core idea of Skull Merchant's power isn't exactly boring or a stale copy of other existing mechanics, it's just... undertuned.
Weak =/= boring and uninspired, which, typing that out makes me realise I really shouldn't have to say it lol
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347830#Comment_3347830
Trickster's knives have travel time, and survivors can notice if his character starts facing a different direction. And this is only an example involving trickster. Huntress has a similar issue, and she can't rapid fire hatchets, so it's even more noticable if she turns to try to fake a hatchet the wrong way. This also doesn't help killers like Pyramid Head, whose power is so heavily telegraphed, that a survivor can dead hard it on reaction, even if it's at point blank range. And that's not even the full list.
The problem with dead hard has always been scenarios where the survivor doesn't have to predict an attack. With old dead hard, "dead hard for distance" was a scenario where it didn't need to be used predictively, but that didn't mean "dead hard for distance" was the only problem people could ever have with dead hard. People using dead hard on reaction to lunges, or certain killer powers, is the same type of problem as "dead hard for distance" used to be, where there's no prediction or mind games, and instead the survivor is just either using the perk proactively or reactively.
I'm not saying facing a different direction, I'm talking about aiming very slightly to the left so the knife just barely misses them. Or like I said, just hold the last knife for an extra second, I'm willing to bet most survivors would preemptively hit E at least the first time. Or just keep throwing, I know Trickster can chew through Endurance if he's got enough knives or has his Main Event up. Or bring addons and perks that deal with Exhaustion perks... I dunno, maybe I'm missing something, but it sure sounds like he has a lot of options to deal with Dead Hard and other sources of Endurance.
There are definitely killers who are more likely to hit into Dead Hard, but for the most part, it's killers for whom that isn't damaging. Blight and Nurse don't give half a damn, for instance, and even Huntress can ready up another hit super quickly, as well as being able to partially bait it out with camera flicks and such. They all, too, have addons and perks to handle it, though I will say that shouldn't be the default expectation. All killers should have some basekit way of adapting to DH, and outside of Twins (poor things), I am pretty sure most killers do.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347815#Comment_3347815
That still doesn’t address the fact that new dead hard is more oppressive than old dead hard against certain killers. By telling people the counterplay is a quick m1 attack, you just told trickster players they should stop using their power, and use their slow walking speed to walk into point blank range of a survivor. How is that fair? Do you think “stop using your power” is a fair counterplay?
I don't play that much Trickster, so perhaps there's something I'm missing, but what exactly is stopping a Trickster player from holding the last knife until after the DH, or from throwing a knife intentionally to the side to force a survivor into reacting even though the knife misses them?
Like I said, I don't play Trickster much, but those would be my instincts when I know a survivor has Dead Hard. As with most killers, the counterplay is to bait it out - or to just circumvent it, but outside of perks that doesn't apply to Trickster.
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@miniwengsel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347441#Comment_3347441
But if we all buy the characters with shards, they get no money from that. This chapter is the best example for BHVR not really think about there game. The Killer is trash and has the same problem as the knight. The Perks overall are bad and two survivor Perks are pro tunneling
But they still get the message that you want the new characters, and they still get you playing with those new characters. It doesn't actually convey 'we don't like this', if that's a thing you care about conveying.
Already gone over why one chapter not being to your tastes doesn't mean the devs don't care/think or whatever.
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The only real problem with Dead Hard is the partial lose/lose at pallets, everything else is a personal preference thing exacerbated by it being a popular perk.
I'd like to see the whole pallet game addressed, though, it is pretty obnoxious and hard to deal with as killer.
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They still know you bought it with shards, which means they still know that despite all this insane blustering, people do actually want the new characters.
Besides, claiming that one chapter you don't personally like means BHVR "doesn't care about the game and the players" is a bit of a leap, don't you think?
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I don't think expectations were too high, I think expectations were shunted in a very specific direction. This isn't people mad because they expected "better", they expected something different, and something very specifically different at that; people convinced themselves it was going to be a robot/mechanical killer and rather than accept their guess was off the mark, started calling it misleading.
At least in some instances, not everyone.
People are also just incapable of accepting that there are forms of horror that aren't "big slasher man/monster", hence people mad about her aesthetic and claiming she doesn't fit despite that clearly not being true.
Balance is where people are a little more on the mark, she does seem weak- but I've noticed a trend where anything other than a strong chase-oriented power is considered a failure of design and the devs oughtn't have bothered, which is a little frustrating. I love that we have another trap killer and another tracking killer, personally, so I hope she's buffed significantly.
As for reception, we had a lot of these same problems with Trickster's release. Apparently, a bunch of people didn't learn anything from that.
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Hopefully this'll be the one where people realise that DBD's Prime Rewards haven't started sucking, they've just fallen in line with the rest of the list.
They're normally pretty lame!
Admittedly, Rift Fragments are... not the worst I've seen, but they're pretty underwhelming.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3346734#Comment_3346734
The backlash isn't the visuals or anything like that her play style is very weak. Her drones make her feel like Hag or Trapper 2.0. The drones themselves are not a threat unless a Survivor disables them or is blind to the blatant scanner range.
I dunno how much you've been reading and where other than the forums you've been reading it, but people are definitely mad about her appearance.
Anyway, like I said, I'm not gonna comment on her balance until I've gotten to actually play a match.
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I agree! Her balancing is something I'll not comment on before I've actually gotten to play her in a match against actual humans, but everything else about her + the new map visuals + most other things in the PTB absolutely rules.
I get not being a fan of her on a personal level but this backlash is wildly exaggerated for no reason. I like this chapter a lot!
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@Blinckx said:
"you still have a good amount of alternatives to Eruption"
Like what ? No, seriously, i'm sure you have more knowledge than me and i don't know those alternatives, can you name me a few ?
"looking how you can improve as killer"
Again, you're for sure more skilled than me, please tell me how i can improve my Mayers/Freddy/Twin/Trapper gameplay, maybe on Decimated Borgo map without using any gen regression perks
"a full potential survivors can stomp most killers to the ground."
I'm sorry i'm confused now, haven't you just said killers are fine and it's just a matter of skill and now "most killers" are going to be stomped against good survivors. So..are killers fine or "most killers sucks" ?
"Balancing wise killer is in a good place."
True, trapper is so in a good place rig..oh wait you meant Blight/Wesker/Spirit are in a good place..is that you meant right ? And for balance you mean exactly what ? They are strong against low level or new players and have no chance against a comp team or even a medium skilled team on almost every map ? Well yes if you mean that yes, killers are balanced.
Dude, if you only respond to sentence fragments, you're gonna end up confused no matter what.
Have you tried reading the whole post?
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To play devil's advocate, I don't think Trapper is going to be fixed by obvious patches of grass added to newer maps. Even setting aside that those patches of grass would then become the Obvious Spots Where Traps Obviously Are, the maps can't keep bending around a single killer's outdated power.
Something about Trapper needs to change, so he can be future-proofed against the more varied styles that the maps are taking these days.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345784#Comment_3345784
"But he doesn't have to do any of that with the Tombstone Piece."
- Against bad players. Thats not fault of addon.
"With the green stalk rate addon, you're barely going to notice a difference between regular Myers and Tombstone Myers"
- Which is still 125%, instead 150%, stalking above normal level required to reach Tier 3 at first time. Which give perfect example what addon you have. Its nothing impossible. It requires good positioning. Only bad teams give him more stalk at the beggining. Good player force him to lose more than enough time to stalk you.
"An instant kill is the strongest possible value a killer can get, and what does the Piece require for that?"
- Which you have to earn it. With Myers you have to be good at positioning and chasing. Knowing exactly what you can do with him.
"Slightly more stalking and literally nothing else."
- 150% is slightly more?
"The Tombstone Piece is overtuned now, it'd be straight up OP if Myers were actually decent."
- Yet there are not a single ones Tournament Myers with such a powerfull and uncounterable addon. He need buffs. Not nerfs or something like this. Tombstone is fine as long as you know what he is capable of with it. I´m always, literally ALWAYS expecting Tombstone Myers in these RARE matches with him. People are not capable of thinking while playing. Its not problem of addon. Myers is one of the weakest killers and high MMR is perfect example. You will not see him twice in more than 50 matches or even more. And when I meet him I´m always wondering if he is average Myers what get rekt, because he is playing "classic" build or atleast average build with Tombstone where he have top HOPE that players are not good loopers. Myers is availible at high MMR ONLY if he is Tombstone Myers and even then you really have to hope that survivors are not too good.
I'm not sure I've conveyed my point, here, so I'm going to try again.
A Tombstone Myers plays exactly like normal Myers, with the only differences being that he takes a little longer to reach Tier 3 - which from a survivor perspective could be because you're successfully robbing him of stalk, it could be because he's running a duration addon, it could be because he looks more like he's running Vanity Mirror, it could be because he's going for Evil Incarnate and he's running the iridescents, or it could be because he's running Tombstone Piece - and that at the end of that extra time, he immediately makes up for it by instantly getting you out of the game.
Yes, survivors can deny Myers stalk. But your first chase with Myers would have to last all five generators for him not to get value from turning the game into a 3v1 the second he does reach Tier 3, I don't think I've conveyed that my point is he can make up for the time you force him to lose by taking you out of the game immediately.
To your final points- first, tournaments are irrelevant, not sure why they're being brought up. Second, yes, Myers needs buffs. He needs basekit buffs and he needs a light addon overhaul because some of them are pretty useless- and as part of that balance sweep, because he's being made stronger, the already overtuned Tombstone Piece would need to be nerfed, because its current strength on a Myers that doesn't need it would be too much.
Neither I nor OP are suggesting nerfing it right now. We're suggesting nerfing it while Myers is made stronger to compensate. This conversation that you entered into wasn't about nerfing Myers, it was about buffing him.
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343622#Comment_3343622
"Healtiest spot"
Generators can be done in 30 seconds
Healing speed can be reduced to 2 seconds
Almost every map is garbage for killers, god pallet linked to a vault to another god pallet (hello Decimated Borgo and Gared on Joy !)
M1 Killers are almost a joke right now, trapper ?Twins ? sadako ? freddy ? clown ? Sure fre killers stand out from the misery but others are just meh with no sign to a rework or fix
Survivors has 3 health state, basekit BT, soon they will receive also basekit unbreakable, what else ?Basekit DS why not
The majority of killer's perks are pure gargabe but they are going to fix a survivor perk because..reasons
Yep, the game is in the healtiest spot for a survivor indeed and dev are fully aware of what is healthy or not, in fact BNP, PT, Hyperfocus, CoH and many other healty perks for the survivors are untouched, maps are so balanced you can loop a killers for days and that's so healty. They also have reworked Eyre and now you can have 5 pallets spawn in 4 adiacent tiles , indeed so healthy.
And yeah, it's so healty right now that a lot of those unhealthy, ungrateful, moronic killers are just asking to have a slight adjustment to the requests they are making, like Corrupt Intervention as Basekit, Fov slider, have a cap of gen repairs speed but, who cares ? as long in the low mmr killers have an high kill ration it's fine and healthy
So, you're obviously spinning a lot more out of my statement than I actually said, but for the record, yes. This is the healthiest spot the game has ever been for killers. That statement doesn't imply there are no problems, you'd have to read it in pretty bad faith to say that it does, it just means that the game used to be worse.
Healing speeds and map design are a problem. Some of the perks you listed (not all, PT being on there is a massive stretch) are a problem. Nowhere in my post did I imply otherwise.
There are also things on the killer side that are still problems, too. Tombstone Piece is still in the game, Leatherface camping is still uncounterable, Blight still has his busted addons, and so on and so forth. The game still having problems doesn't mean it hasn't improved.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345771#Comment_3345771
You can see it from his movement, from his chasing attempts to stalk you like he is waiting for it. You can observe everything he has. In a moment you can recognize his addons. Time he spent to stalk you, keeping distance or close range and much more. Lead him to jungle gym or to god pallets and after while he will be less than average M1 killer. If he would have UNLIMITED amount of stalking, then yes it would be strong, but not in actual state of Myers. Locker is forcing him to grab you and hook you and much more. Its observable what addons he has.
But he doesn't have to do any of that with the Tombstone Piece. With the green stalk rate addon, you're barely going to notice a difference between regular Myers and Tombstone Myers- and a properly good player is going to be getting to Tier 3 while still getting hits/downs/hooks, so you'll doubly not know until you're hit with it.
Again, you're kind of avoiding the point. An instant kill is the strongest possible value a killer can get, and what does the Piece require for that? Slightly more stalking and literally nothing else. The iridescent, supposedly better, has more of a stalk requirement and a speed penalty. No other killer has an instant kill even half as achievable as either of those.
Besides, your argument there hinges on Myers being weak, and OP is suggesting fixing that. The Tombstone Piece is overtuned now, it'd be straight up OP if Myers were actually decent.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345110#Comment_3345110
All of his addons have easy counters. And especially Tombstone have a good one. Loop Myers for more than 60 seconds, which is quite easy, and you will see how useless Tombstone is. You can force him to do what ever you want if you play it smart.
Sure, when you know he has it, which you only do when one guy is already dead to it.
Call me crazy, but I think an addon giving the absolute strongest thing that a killer can possibly have - an instant kill - should have more of a requirement and more of a downside than 'play Myers normally for slightly longer'. Judith's Tombstone is balanced, the Tombstone Piece is not.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345245#Comment_3345245
If you pair Boil Over with Flip-Flop and Unbreakable, you have enough wiggle that you will get a pretty big boost from Boil Over. The key is to go down kind of in the middle of the building, so you also force the killer to walk some distance and give you even more wiggle.
That being said, usually the only thing boiling over is my blood. Even if the perk does absolutely nothing (which is often the case), it still gives me a indescribable primordial rage deep inside my soul every time I see it.
Flip Flop and Unbreakable would both require you to be downed away from the killer, though, so you'd be left on the ground to recover first. I dunno how the numbers break out but I doubt you'd get a ton of recovery (only half of which translates to wiggle) from just the weapon-wipe animation.
I can't say I'm that annoyed by it, lol. It's a little frustrating sometimes, that's about it.
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To be fair, the whole "second story instant loss" thing doesn't happen anymore, you can just take the drop immediately and it'll only shave the tiniest amount off the overall wiggle bar. You can't take drops towards the end of your path to the hook, that'll break them out much quicker, but if they go down next to a drop you just pick them up and walk over it immediately.
That being said, it is definitely annoying. The aura hiding is fine, and I also don't really have much of a problem with the drop thing since it's no longer abusable and only rarely gives you value, but the side-to-side sway is hardly fun even if it isn't gamebreaking. Some other third effect would be nice if they can think of one.
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@DyingWish92 said:
I keep seeing people saying PT "only" saves 7 seconds on a gen. You people do realize 7 seconds is a lot in killer time right? Maybe not in survivor time as they have 4 people running around doing objectives. 7 seconds extra in chase can sometimes cost a killer a game. Time is quadrupled in importance for a killer as opposed to survivor as you have you and only you to win.
The "killer's time being four times as valuable as the survivor's" thing is only accurate at the very start of the match, when everyone is alive and only one survivor is being pressured. Any survivor that is out of the action - so dead/slugged/hooked - lessens that time importance because it's one less survivor who can be working on generators.
At the same time, the very start of the match is when Prove Thyself is a hindrance more than a help. Those generators they're saving seven seconds on would, overall, be done faster if they split up, even with PT in the picture. The perk is not useless, it's fairly nice for early gens (albeit a risk) and definitely useful for the final gen, but it's not the reason your gens are flying. Stacked toolboxes would be a far more reasonable target, or Hyperfocus builds.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
Its always funny how people thinks that Myers addons are busted. :D
It's only really incorrect because of the plural on the word. Myers has a busted addon, singular, only the Tombstone Piece needs any changes.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343807#Comment_3343807
Simplest idea is the activation trigger for the "trap" totems like HG, Retribution, and Undying be "any other totem activates".
In your example, Ruin wouldn't light up until something causes its regression to trigger. Once it does, Haunted Ground lights up, as well, so 3 totems light up and once instead of 1.
The problem there is, what if you don't have any other hexes? I suppose you could just default to "it's lit from the start" and accept that you're just worse off for it, that'd be acceptable ish.
The other two do have an activation trigger, though. Retribution makes you Oblivious when fiddling with a totem, and Undying reveals your aura when walking by a dull, so those two are set.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343778#Comment_3343778
Then lets hear you come up with a suggestion to improve the situation because you arent helping. You are, in fact, being every bit as detrimental to killers as the survivors are on this forum. How would you fix them because there is no point in running hexes currently and all that you say is "no that wouldnt work" for frankly bogus reasons while pretending to have an interest in the killer cause.
All I hear from you is negativity about people's suggestions to give killers a break for once after suffering nerf after nerf after nerf, the vast majority of killers are completely unusable or at the very least not viable. What is your suggestion? Keeping them as-is means people will use them exactly once and then never again as for as much potential they have, that potential never comes to fruition.
This isn't a thread about hexes, which is why I was only directly responding to your arguments. However, I'll answer anyway, because I have actually thought about how to help hexes out.
So, there are two main ideas. Either would somewhat work on their own, but I think both should be implemented together.
The first is that totem placements should be randomised again, and then infrequently but regularly randomised going forward. This would mean experienced survivors would have to actually look for totems again, and incentivise maybe bringing some totem-hunting perks to do so- and it'd also mean that bare minimum your chances of an instant cleanse go down.
The second is more impactful, and if they did only do one, it should be this one. I think hexes should only light up a totem when they've actually done something. Ruin, purely as an example because I know it sucks, should light up only when it actually regresses something. Devour, when it gains a token. Blood Favour, when it blocks a pallet. The only sticking point is Haunted Grounds since it wouldn't have an activation trigger, but I'm pretty sure the devs could think of something there.
Obviously, some hexes are just bad and need their own help, but this would help the actually good hexes not be instantly cleansed and therefore be useless.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
Nope, just the ability to place them back. Kinda annoying to lose 1/4 of your perks in the first 10 seconds of the game because a survivor spawned on top of it when facing up to 16 perks... 14 second placement is reasonable for a 4-man squad, killer is solo so 1/4th of that. I'll round it up to 4 seconds.
Then you're not proposing making them actually similar to boons, which means this won't work. It's just giving killers the ability to keep hexes up almost constantly- at best, that's old Undying, which was changed for a reason.
Losing your hexes in ten seconds sucks. This isn't the answer.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343764#Comment_3343764
Currently they arent the same mechanic, my proposal to make it the same. I say it does work, would be nice to actually reach the point where they work at their max potential for once... Your opinion isn't the end-all and be-all you seem to think it is.
Well, not quite, you're proposing giving them one element of boons. Unless you're also suggesting the killer must manually place them over the course of fourteen seconds, only gain their effects in a limited radius, and is forced to stack all of them on the same totem?
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343697#Comment_3343697
Exactly, so what is the problem with placing them back?
Just went over that.
If hexes as a perk class need help, and I would say they do, the solution is not to try and force them to work like boons. They're not the same mechanic, what works for one doesn't work for the other.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343687#Comment_3343687
Stop being wrong about everything and I wont have to challenge you. And no, it wouldnt be too strong as it isnt too strong the first time, it wont be too strong at any other time either. Personally I never bring hexes because they tend to get wiped in the first 3 minutes of the game. I would say two minutes but generally speaking the survivors are busy rushing two gens at that point of the game.
You're telling me the ability to re-place Blood Favour or Devour Hope or old, pre-nerf Ruin wouldn't be too strong? We used to have that mechanic, in a way, with old Undying. It was changed for good reason.
Hexes being weak has very little to do with boons. Hexes are weak because they're just too easy to find on a lot of maps. That is, of course, entirely irrelevant to the topic of boons, but there it is anyway.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343333#Comment_3343333
Can we get some re-placable Hexes too then, mr killer main? Most of them have no bite to them either...
Goddamn dude, a third thread to hassle me on?
Anyway, replaceable hexes would obviously be too strong for the majority of them, because the majority of them are much stronger (and stronger in a more direct way) than boons. This is clearly how the mechanic is intended to function, it's obviously a false equivalence.
Instadowns and moris, for instance, are a much more direct threat to survivors than blocked scratch marks in a limited area are for killer. Inability to use pallets or windows after a hit or a single vault respectively, that's a way bigger deal than 2% haste in a limited area. Weak hexes are just weak, they're not the fair standard for the whole mechanic.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343622#Comment_3343622
I don't remember seeing any buffs. Certainly you are not refering to the Knight being fixed to not be completely useless, right? Certainly you aren't refering to last July when small numerical adjustments had no improving impact in any significant way. I know you are not refering to anything in between simply because there were no buffs for killers. What are you on about?
We can start with 6.1.0. Not everything in that patch was a success, but a combination of small basekit + moderate perk buffs and - more importantly - pretty noticeable survivor perk nerfs put killer in a better spot. Sometime after that, if my memory serves (though I do get the order of these changes mixed up sometimes), we had the combination Ghostface and Legion buffs, and I'm sure I don't need to explain how two killers being put in significantly more viable spots from good basekit changes and excellent addon overhauls is a benefit to the killer role. We also had Project W, which was less of a buff and more a great addition, because Wesker is the best killer released since Blight. While Dredge wasn't quite as strong, it's still viable and enjoyable to play, so there's that. Sadako was weak, but she came with three very solid and dependable perks that each can find a good niche on a variety of killers.
I'm sure there's more that I'm just not remembering off the top of my head, but to claim that killers never get appreciable buffs/additions that actually impact the game is just wrong. It's misguided at best, cherrypicking at worst.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343609#Comment_3343609
They'll never give killers anything worthwhile, they are hard survivor biased because most players are survivors so that is where most skins are sold so that is where the money is at. Killers are considered second rate customers and are only given scraps when the survivor queue gets too long.
I kinda feel like the various killer buffs and additions from recent patches combined with the game being in the healthiest spot it's ever been for killers disproves that all on its own.
This is overdramatic.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343496#Comment_3343496
You are BHVR staff huh..
No, I just believe in reasonable criticism.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343587#Comment_3343587
You think that Dead Hard is fine and Eruption isnt. That means you are either underestimating how strong Dead Hard is or overestimating how strong Eruption is. Both those scenarios point at skill issues.
Not... really? Surely if I think the thing on "my side" (killer in this case) is too strong but the thing on the opponent's side is almost balanced, that implies I get too much value from one and see much less value from the other?
What it implies is that you disagree with me, which doesn't mean there's any skill issues going on at all. Frankly it's kind of insanely arrogant to think that someone who disagrees with you just isn't as good at the game as you, even setting aside how it doesn't actually make logical sense here.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343575#Comment_3343575
Nope, meant for you. If you think Dead Hard is fine then you are out of your mind. Sorry, no two ways about it and Eruption wasn't that strong and certainly not as strong as Dead Hard
Wait, but how's that a skill issue? Surely if I were having skill issues I'd think the perk was stronger than it is, not weaker?
I also didn't say here that Dead Hard is fine, I said it's objectively weaker than prior to 6.1.0, because it is. I do think that DH is fine, with one exception, but that isn't actually what I said here.
Saying that Eruption wasn't that strong is a pretty incoherent take, you're definitely in a minority there.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342763#Comment_3342763
its not, its just you having skill issues
...Was this meant for someone else? I don't see how that connects to what I'm saying at all.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343463#Comment_3343463
When BHVR talks about a survivor accessibility issue for a very long time, and talks about coming up with a solution, and promises it will be implemented in the future….. but absolutely positively refuses to mention absolutely anything about killer accessibility issues, then yes it is one sided.
I don't think they should be expected to arbitrarily tack on "and of course we're in the planning/discussion stage for [x side] changes too" every single time they discuss a change they're far enough along to actually start teasing. I especially don't think that them not doing that should be considered fair reason to start accusing them of horrendous bias and misconduct.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343405#Comment_3343405
What rules? the devs never said boons are supposed to be used with the killer near them.tp get the benefits.
All it is is that boons provides an arean of wffect that gives the survivors benefits. Nothing about killers was involved in that
I use "rules" loosely, it's more like the conventions of the mechanic and its associated perks. Shadow Step and Dark Theory are near useless if the killer isn't nearby, and arguably you want the killer nearby for Exponential too since crawling to it might take forever if you're downed too far away from it. CoH is the only one that gets more value the further the killer is from it while it's used, and since it's also far and away the most valuable, that kind of stifles boons as a mechanic.
The whole back-and-forth idea of snuffing and relighting is also skewed if the boon isn't close to the action, so that contributes.
@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343405#Comment_3343405
Something like "cap all Healing boosts within the boon at 100%" the way We'll Make It does? Or it only works when you heal without a medkit like Autodidact and Solidarity?
That or a diminishing returns system where stacking multiple sources of a boost are rendered less effective.
To go on the second point, maybe "you can self heal in the boon but healing others is only boosted if the Killer is nearby / you're within their terror radius, like a reverse of Coulrophobia?
I'd rather look at all sources of healing independent of CoH, since you don't exactly need a boon to get ultra fast healing speeds. Making it not stack with medkits would be a good "intermediate" step while bigger reforms are worked on though, so I'd support that.
I did see someone once suggest CoH should be reworked to a Vigil boon, that's pretty okay as an idea and plays into the established conventions a bit better.
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I have noticed that the devs seem to be favouring current progress over total progress a little more, and in theory, I kind of like that. It gives regression more of an oomph towards the end of the trial when it'd be more necessary, and prevents the perks from getting entirely out of hand with stacking and high total numbers. I'd be all for it!
...Buuuut I do think some stuff needs to change on the survivor side before it'd be healthy for the game. Hyperfocus builds need to be nerfed, toolboxes need to be nerfed, and a few other high-impact generator speed things would need to be nerfed too. That way killers aren't just at a disadvantage, it's far more about how well people play.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343333#Comment_3343333
That's generally been my experience when people talk about Boons. They almost always actually mean Circle of Healing.
To be fair that actually does tend to be the issue with doing anything about Circle of Healing in particular. How to change it without damaging the other Boons in general, which is what most suggestions I've seen made would do.
I've seen some suggestions like remove the self-heal or, conversely, make it only a self-heal when in the Boon's area. Also saw a suggestion of it doesn't affect healing directly but shows the aura of injured Survivors in its effect Empathy-style.
I think that healing speeds in general need to be heavily looked at, CoH on its own isn't a problem. It's only when it's stacked with other healing sources, which all stack aggressively with one another and are all pretty decent alone, that it becomes a pretty huge problem.
That being said, CoH does cause problems for the boon mechanic because it breaks all the rules. I don't know what this would look like, but it should be ground-up reworked to work the same way as the other boons and incentivise the killer being nearby to use it properly. Maybe nothing to do with healing at all, I don't know.
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Why do people have it out for Adrenaline so much?
Normally I understand the positions that pop up a lot for certain perks, like- Dead Hard I get, even if I disagree on a lot of the specifics people talk about. Prove Thyself and Circle of Healing I also understand, even if those perks really aren't even all that good on their own, because they're sort of the face of wider speed problems in the game, but Adrenaline? It's strong, sure, but it's far from OP. What's going on there?
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I don't think this change would be necessary for the majority of the boon perks, though. Dark Theory is pretty awful, Exponential is extremely situational, and while Shadow Step is definitely decent I don't think it's so strong that it warrants a permanent deactivation on snuff.
I feel like when you say "boons" you really just mean Circle of Healing, and you don't fix one perk by taking a sledgehammer to its shared mechanic. Old Undying wasn't fixed by nerfing hexes or totem placements, it was fixed by changing that perk specifically.
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What do you mean "FIRST" Pop, "THEN" Ruin? They were changed at the exact same time.
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I know this thread is just being pointedly snide about the Eruption change, but I'm thinking about it and I kinda think that IF we are ever in a state where Pain Res needs to be nerfed (which right now we are not), it's probably the perk that'd be hit least by current-not-total as a change, since it's always guaranteed to activate on the most progressed generator.
Side note, I really wish people would stop acting as though 6.1 happened in a vacuum and was the devs randomly deciding to nuke perks solely for being run too often. People had been asking for years for them to address the stale meta, it's not indicative of a new pattern where they just randomly gut healthy perks for arbitrary reasons.
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342763#Comment_3342763
Yes, they're nerfing something "overpowered" killer side, but not nerfing lots of things overpowered surv side (prove thyself you all bring the example with 2 survs on the same gens, but I use it and trust me that rarely I repair with less than 2 other survs). If the next update nuke also gen speed perks, this will be the perfect update because I don't need to tunnel anymore if gens stop to fly in few seconds.
Because there's nothing on the survivor side that is comparable to Eruption. There are a bunch of mechanics that need reigning in, like generator speeds and healing speeds, but you can't nerf any one perk for either of those and expect it to do much; Prove Thyself is only useful for the last generator since grouping up is always more inefficient than splitting up (yes, even with PT), for example, and another commonly complained about perk for healing is CoH and that's barely even good if it's used on its own.
Full mechanics like that require more attention than a single perk change slotted in to a wider chapter release. Eruption is a problem all on its own. They shouldn't keep Eruption in the game as it is now until they arbitrarily have something for the "other side" too, they should fix it as soon as they reasonably can.
You also don't need to tunnel right now, it's just easier.
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I think part of the reason you're coming to the conclusion the developers are survivor sided is because you've got some misconceptions about a few things. The biggest obvious misconceptions are your stated opinions on Prove Thyself and Dead Hard- you seem to present PT as some generator-deleting monster perk that has no counters and leaves a killer helpless in the face of tremendously fast completion times, when in reality it's like, seven seconds if two people work on a generator? That's still slower to complete two generators than if those two survivors split up on separate generators from the start, it's really not a problem, it's a placebo boogeyman people use to blame generator speeds on when there are wayyyy better targets for that.
Similar with Dead Hard. Claiming that Dead Hard is stronger now than it was before is objectively incorrect, which contributes a little to the main misconception that you seem to have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're saying killers - especially M1 killers - need Eruption to stand a chance in the face of genrushing survivors, and that simply isn't true. No killer, on live servers right now, needs Eruption. They need slowdown in most scenarios, sure, but they do not need Eruption specifically. That perk isn't the one perk keeping M1 killers afloat and it's certainly not healthy for the game, it's just straight up overpowered and categorically needs a nerf.
(I do think it's being nerfed slightly too hard, but that's neither here nor there)
The bottom line is, the devs aren't survivor sided because they're nerfing something obviously overpowered. The devs don't really have much of a bias that I can see, they just make odd decisions sometimes and can be slow to act on problematic elements of the game. Similarly, killer as a role is not floundering or struggling tremendously, the game is the healthiest it's ever been for the killer role. You have tools at your disposal, they're just weaker than Eruption- because Eruption is too strong.
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Depends on what you mean. I would say you're definitely expecting to see a lower winrate if you bring no slowdown whatsoever, but people tend to conflate "slowdown" with "regression" when the former also covers gen blocking, endgame perks, healing slowdown, and a few other things.
Personally speaking, I only tend to run one or two slowdown perks, don't tend to prioritise anything stronger than Deadlock or Jolt, and don't tend to camp or tunnel. While my results are obviously anecdotal, I do see roughly half of my games being won, which would say to me that while no slowdown might not be viable, minimal slowdown seems to be. You don't need Eruption/CoB or Pain Res/DMS to stand a chance, you just need something to buy you slightly more time so you can generate the best form of slowdown: pressure from downs and hooks.
It also depends on the killer. For a killer like Pig, "slowdown" could also be said to include hex builds, since it's another objective on top of the extra one she adds with her RBTs. You could almost certainly get decent results from Pig, I'd wager, without a single traditional slowdown perk just because of how her kit works-- and on the extreme end, a killer like Nurse or Blight can win with basically no perks, and excel with information perks just as much as regular slowdown.
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Absolutely agreed, that's basically the only balance change I'm hoping for with this map update. Temple of Purgation is imo pretty fine, I generally don't mind being sent there, but Mother's Dwelling is miserably large.
It's to the point that I don't even like getting it on survivor, because it's just so big and takes so long to traverse. Good luck to the guy hooked on the other side of the map, lol.
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@foods said:
check whats left from the "big killer buff patch"
jolt buff? slightly faster kicking/attack animation? uhh?
meanwhile survivors get buffed s tier perk borrowed time for free, every decent gen regression nerfed, dead hard is harder to use but stronger if you can use it. thana buff lasted a couple weeks, eruption now joins it in the shadow realm. survivors just got a massive buff with tons of free information.
easy to see whats going on here
...Jolt buff, faster kicking speed and attack animation, shorter post-hit sprint burst, longer generator base times, buffed Overcharge, instant regression on generator kick without perks, buffed Coulrophobia, buffed Dark Devotion, buffed Lethal Pursuer, buffed Monstrous Shrine, buffed Gift of Pain, nerfed Decisive Strike, nerfed Dead Hard, nerfed Iron Will.
Come on now.
EDIT: 6.1.0 also wasn't a "killer buff patch", it was a meta overhaul and game health chapter for the entire game, not just one side.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341260#Comment_3341260
Dead Hard is fine lol, clearly never played killer in your life.
Or, shockingly, I may just have a different opinion to you on the subject.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341429#Comment_3341429
you said this in a discussion where the eruption was killed and at the same time dh was not touched (dh wins many times more time than the eruption)
Yup.
I think the Eruption changes might be a bit much, I think it should remain total progress instead of current- or maybe get a higher percentage of current so it better competes with Pop, one of the two. That opinion is, however, completely irrelevant to the topic of Dead Hard.