jesterkind
jesterkind
About
- Username
- jesterkind
- Joined
- Visits
- 17,633
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Adjatha said:
"Hexes always spawning far away from Survivors" is somehow a worse situation than "Hexes spawning directly next to survivors"?
Boy, that sure is some kind of a logical leap.
It's "MIGHT spawn directly next to survivor" versus "ALWAYS spawning away from survivors". The consistency would make hex spawns not even slightly uncertain, which is materially worse than them being only kind of uncertain.
-
@N8dog said:
Why did they remove the notification? That was the ONE THING it had to make it viable for hex builds!
No idea, but let's not fall into the trap of assuming that the notification being removed has made it useless or even considerably weaker. The slowdown that it provides now is just as potent, if not moreso, than the notification- it's just got a built-in counter in a way the notification didn't, so I don't think it warrants being a hex.
-
It'd mean that survivors would know where the hexes are, guaranteed; they'd be the ones on the other side of the map, and there'd be no point even checking the ones they spawn near because they're guaranteed to be dull.
Essentially it'd remove what little RNG actually remains for hexes, and shove them firmly into the survivor's favour. Hexes do need work, but this isn't it imo.
-
I definitely support Myers being able to walk through walls while in Tier 3, and I don't think it'd be overpowered to have him be able to walk through dropped pallets too. That change alone would make him a ton more fun, even if it doesn't help much in terms of strength lol.
-
I think you're dramatically overstating the effectiveness of all the other boons, here.
-
@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872939#Comment_2872939
That's your definition. In my experience throwing involves sabotaging matches in general. Talking about different games in general here, not just dbd... People who "throw matches" often sabotage their team mates too, or refuse to participate in normal gameplay or perform actions that lowers the chances of the team winning.
In DBD, you also have to ask yourself... What IS a win, really?
It's a team game, survivors VS killers. I consider it a win for the survivors if a majority escape. Killer wins if a majority dies. It's a draw if half escape and half die.
"Throwing" is short for "throwing the game". So if I make sure all the survivors escape and then I choose to die at the end, I am not throwing the game. I helped all the other team mates survive, and took one for the team. That's not throwing.
Throwing would be, if I got downed first, and then kill myself on the hook and leave the rest of the team to play the match on their own. Or, if I spend the whole match crouching around the edges and refusing to help the team or touch any generators. That's also throwing.
Either way, that's not what this topic was meant to be about. The point of this topic is that the purpose of MMR systems is to get decent matchmaking, and calculating MMR based on escapes and deaths is an awful way to determine skill level in order to find fair matches. It feels pointless to talk to you because you ignore all the points i make about the MMR system being bad, and just talk about the definition of throwing. So i'm gonna leave this here as I've already made my point in this thread, and I hope developers find this and read some of the points about the MMR system.
I am perfectly content to stop using the term "throwing" if you like, that isn't really the important part; the important part is that you're choosing to lose at the last second. The choice is being made, and that choice will have ramifications.
You also don't have to ask yourself what a win is, since the win condition has been relatively clearly defined for a while. The only point of ambiguity that's ever existed is whether a 3k counts for a killer win or if it has to be a 4k, everything else has been established since the game's release.
But yes, talking about throwing wasn't really the point here, that's something you brought up and it confused me enough to derail the conversation. The bottom line is, the way the MMR number is calculated seems perfectly logical to me; if you're winning more matches than you're losing, you're doing something right. If you're not doing something right but still winning more than you're losing, then that's a balance issue, not a matchmaking issue.
-
NOED is not a good perk.
Not from the perspective of being unfair or OP, but from a literal one; in my experience it's good for one down at the endgame, it's just too inconsistent. The most counterable perk in the game, that only activates at a point where you're under extreme time pressure to use it, and that gives a moderately powerful effect many killers get as part of their basekit... just not a good perk, it needs a rework to be stronger and more consistent.
-
@Kurri said:
I'm not sure how this relates to a game about murder and torture? Don't get me wrong, representation is great, but I see the Trapper just as likely killing a homosexual as they are a heterosexual and just as likely to kill someone who is non-binary.
How do we know if a character isn't already LGBTQ+?
Because it makes the stories more interesting and varied, while showing support and acknowledgement of marginalised players.
The tome lore and all character/setting backstories don't need to exist at all, but everyone on some level accepts that its presence makes the game a little better, at least for some people. If you're going to be telling stories - which DBD is - it's natural for people to want to see themselves represented, and even aside from that it's just more interesting, true to life, and conducive to good storytelling to have representative variety for your characters.
-
@Cetren said:
I mean except for licensed characters, none of the characters have any information about their sexuality. Maybe it's because that's not what you're really concerned about when you're running away from a bloodthirsty killer? Just a thought.
By that logic, why bother expanding on their stories with tome lore at all? None of that is relevant when you're running away from a bloodthirsty killer, after all.
-
I don't have a horse in either race, but I think that comparison is pretty shaky for two major reasons.
First of all, Blinks are completely unrestricted beyond range, whereas a Rush requires there be no obstacles in the way. Second, Blight can't attack on his first Rush, he has to bounce once, so even if the comparison was direct he functionally has one fewer than Nurse has Blinks since she can attack on her first token.
-
@cordonrouge said:
belive me, you guys are not ready for this conversation regarding sociology, psychology, sexuality, and pop culture. i actually wrote my final thesis on a similar topic. excuse my english if it's wonky (not my first language) and the wall of text.
when you say "popular in lgbt spaces" you actually mean: popular with gay men, cis straight women, and a few transgender women. lesbian and transmasc players are pretty much non-existant.
now, horror media is popular in lgbt spaces because it sexualizes females a lot and queer males romanticize and idolize that kind of male gazey femininity, the same one that straight men sexualize but the dynamics are different. in general, queer males obsess over females and divas, and horror media usually contains final girls who prevail over strong scary monsters or whatever but doing so, not through sheer force of muscle or anything but in a "feminine" way (as i said, it's meant to appeal to the male gaze).
with dbd they live out the fantasy of being said final girl. notice how yun jin, kate, and nancy are the most popular survivors among gay players, and how in general they pick the most traditionally feminine female character available in all videogames. otherwise they play the sexualized male characters like shirtless david and such.
basically it's just a sexualized fantasy of being helpless and defenseless but overcoming your aggressor and having your "yas queen, strong independent woman" moment vicariously, and doing so while subconsciously visualizing yourself through an external observer lens.
a similar phenomena is observed in women since they tend to sexualize situations where they're in peril or in danger, or in their case, even straight up sexualize the killers themselves. CNC fetishes or SA fantasies are very popular among straight women, not to mention how real existing serial killers have female groupies and fandoms, also see how there's fanfictions about school shooters etc... what also attracts the female playerbase is the fact that it appeals to the true crime community, which is prevalently female, all for interconnected reasons.
last but not least: the fact that it's a mechanically easy game and is easily accessible to the non hardcore gamers (or even non-gamers) slice of the gay and female demographic. in fact many of them actually play dbd only, with playtimes reaching even the thousand of hours, despite not playing other videogames unless you count mobile stuff or more "casual" games.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that these people are sexaully stimulated while playing the game. it's more on a subconscious level. it's embarassing, but it is what it is.
inb4:
"im a gay dude and i dont relate to any of this, which means that despite the fact that it applies to 70% of the community it's wrong because it's not true for me specifically, and i physically lack the capacity to perceive the world through a point of view that is not mine."
"im a lesbian and i play the game, therefore you're wrong about the fact that we are a minuscule part of the player base, because i have no idea how math works, my own anecdotal and empirical experience makes more sense to me."
"you're homophobic."
Where are your numbers coming from here? I can only speak anecdotally but I think every single DBD player that I know personally is a sapphic woman.
I don't know that these numbers have ever been released to the general community if BHVR have even gathered them internally, so if they exist I'd love to see them.
-
Hard to choose, honestly. I am a big fan of the core gameplay design, especially from the angle of a killer player, but I'm also a huge fan of the character design and most of the character writing. Some of it is a little questionable, but all of the characters at least have a really strong core design and concept.
Oh, and the art team always knock it out of the park, too.
-
I think the reason the game is as popular as it is with an LGBT audience is a combination of there just being a lot of LGBT gamers who are happy to be openly queer in spaces that support them, and horror as a genre already being pretty popular with LGBT folks.
As for canonically queer characters, unfortunately not as far as I know, but there's a lot of space for it. I'd love to see some tome lore expand on some characters being LGBT in some fashion, new or established- I think the tomes would be the most appropriate place to do it, since it gives the space to explore it properly and let it impact some stories.
-
@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872804#Comment_2872804
i think your definition of "throwing" is different from mine.
I'm not throwing the game at all.
I am playing to the best of my ability, and making sure to help other survivors and playing like a good team mate.
Throwing implies playing like garbage on purpose, or sabotaging the game for others, or overall just not participating in normal gameplay.
Simply choosing to not walk out of a doorway at the end is not the same as throwing a game, at least not what i think most people would consider "throwing a game" means.
I feel like you have too much of a "win/lose" mindset to understand this issue. you've agreed that the point of an MMR system is to prevent people from getting wildly unbalanced games, yet you keep talking as if winning or losing is the only thing that matters. Winning or losing at the VERY END has nothing to do with how balanced or unbalanced the ENTIRETY of a match is.
"Throwing" just means "losing on purpose", you don't have to be playing intentionally garbage for the entire match to throw the game at the very end.
I'm not making a moral judgement here, that's just what it is that's being described- what's being described is intentionally subverting the win/loss condition of the game, if you're making the choice to do that then you should also be accepting that there are consequences for that decision. If you do it enough, you're going to end up in lower-MMR games, because you've intentionally been losing.
The only way to avoid that situation would be if the MMR system allowed players to rise in MMR if they lost the game, and that seems pretty obviously unintuitive.
-
Agreed! Legion especially looks fantastic, I'm super excited to hop onto the PTB and try them out once it drops.
I'd love to see their new addons, too...
-
Sloppy Butcher should be better now too- the pairing of "slower heals and more blood pools" was kind of underwhelming, but the pairing of "slower heals and heal regression" should be a lot more threatening if you're able to interrupt those heals.
-
@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2872106#Comment_2872106
another way to think about it is this:
Imagine an adult playing a game of chess against a kid. The adult plays real strategies until the kid only has a couple of chess pieces left, and then starts losing on purpose.
Now... Would you judge this adult as being bad at chess, and enter him into a chess contest for kids... oooor would you recognize that he's good at chess but chose to lose?
See, the MMR system does the former. It fails to recognize any skillful gameplay and just says the adult sucks because he lost.
...What? The point of the MMR system is that you're not supposed to be getting games that wildly unbalanced to begin with, but even if you do get a game like that, the system doesn't say "you suck", the system puts one tally point in the loss column. One game doesn't swing your MMR all that much.
Even if you are getting matches like that all the time, you're still intentionally throwing, and it's a very strange take to say that the MMR system is bad because it can't account for bad actors purposefully losing their games. Any system is going to have that flaw.
-
@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871328#Comment_2871328
you're confusing "skill" with "winning".
My overall winrate is trash, because I have all the perks in the game and don't care about escaping for that extra 5k blood points.
So I usually let killers get those points at the very end, i by letting them kill me, even though I could have escaped.
This ends up being a downwards spiral where my matches are so easy because i get killed a lot, and then I feel bad for looping the killer the whole match so I feel even more inclined to give them the satisfaction of killing that annoying looper at the end.
Me dying while everyone else escapes doesn't make me lack skill, but the game registers my result as being bad at the game simply because I died.
the whole point of an MMR system is to match people with people in a similar skill level to keep matches fun and "fair" to a certain degree. So there's no point in having an MMR system at all if they're not properly trying to detect people's ability to play well in the game. Currently, I would have better matches if matchmaking was completely random.
...I'm not sure why you intentionally choosing to throw your games at the last minute translates to the MMR system being bad...?
-
@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871328#Comment_2871328
Did you not read what i read? Overall win rate is not indicative of skill. Plenty of athletes are great on teams with losing records over a season. Survivors rely on each other to escape, just as an athlete relies on the team to win.
Okay, but what does that have to do with placing them in an MMR system? It's not about how secretly good they are, or how much potential they have, it's about their chance of winning. That's the point of an MMR system, to match players with a roughly equal chance of winning.
-
@GentlemanFridge said:
Still needs sloppy or, god forbid, an add-on to apply it.
The flipside there is that all the perks and addons that apply it are now much more appealing, because it's no longer a useless status effect.
-
While it's unlikely a tricky object like DH will be fixed this quickly after it's been acknowledged, I'd like to point out that this isn't the full patch notes, it's the developer update showing some of it ahead of time.
There'll be a little more in the patch notes themselves. Probably not Dead Hard, but still.
-
@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871447#Comment_2871447
I am aware but if these were the changes that he was getting, they should've been received a long time ago. I think it is super disappointing that this was talked about months ago as like a big deal and it is just basic buffs. I'm not complaining he received those because I definitely agree they help, but it just feels weird it was made out to be like a big "ghostface update" coming and it is a pretty normal buff that should be more common place for most killers.
...Were they? I'm pretty sure all we were told is that Ghosty and Legion were being looked at for changes, I don't recall it being talked up as a big update at all.
The community took it and ran, obviously, but all we were told is that Ghosty was being looked at, and since all he needed was normal buffs I think it was a fair assumption that he was going to get normal buffs.
-
@Adaez said:
I agree that feels very underwhelming,and not enough to make Legion a decent killer.
Especially if they removed his Feral Frenzy duration addons,I really hope not.
Legion is such a cool and really wish he got something that fixed his huge problem of survivors just splitting up.
They did, though. They now get a speed boost on top of refreshing the FF meter when they get a hit, so they can now close the gap between split-up survivors considerably easier than before.
Larger maps are still going to be a problem for them, but larger maps are a problem pretty universally.
-
This is what he needed, though?
Being revealed less often (which in fairness, the reveal logic will probably still need tuning), better utility, and addons that are actually worth running. He's getting all of those, he didn't need anything more than that.
-
How on earth is this "RIP Legion", these are all straight buffs...?
Legion's going to be in a tremendously better spot after these hit live, especially depending on what their addon changes are looking like. Legion never needed gigantic changes, they just needed to be a little more consistent and to have something for a little more mobility- getting much faster from chain hits and reducing their fatigue is what they needed, frankly. The instadown is neat, too, rewards you for positioning yourself well even if it won't come up much in most maps.
-
Me too, this looks shockingly good- I'm excited to see what's in the rest of the patch notes, honestly.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870874#Comment_2870874
Actually they would have gotten more value if they combined CoH and a good medkit. Like far more value.
Ironic, how several people bringing boons is considered a good thing for killers "because they don´t hug gens" when this was the exact same thing Undying achieved.
Absolutely, because CoH is busted. We're just taking CoH off the table since we're talking about boons as a whole, not just the one obviously broken perk.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871357#Comment_2871357
Yeah same, i saw it and then i bought it for Susie.
I wish we would get CoH nerf too but i am okey for this changes, decent Mid-Chapter.
I imagine the full patch notes for this midchapter will have some perk changes in it, so there's still a chance- though I'd expect them to frontload a change like that since it'd be very popular.
Still, this is a very good midchapter either way. Very pleased.
-
I'm really pleased to be wrong about both Legion and Ghosty getting their changes in one update- and they both look incredible, too, I'm psyched as hell.
Just after I bought Susie a new hoodie, too... ideal.
-
@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871191#Comment_2871191
The actual MMR doesnt focus on measuring individual skill at all. Its just boiled down to one basic indicator, and its factors are completely ignored.
As I said above, it does measure individual skill in general. It isn't concerned with whether you played 'right' in one game, it's concerned about your overall winrate.
-
@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871191#Comment_2871191
Current MMR does not measure individual skill because escaping doesn’t demonstrate skill. To use the dev’s awful team analogy: a player can be individually great while still being on a bad team. Some of the greatest players in NFL history have been on historically bad teams (see the Detroit Lions.) The team being bad doesn’t make the individual player bad.
It measures individual skill over a large batch of games. You're right, there are too many variables for escape/kill to be considered an indication of skill in one match. But overall, across a large batch of games, if you're winning more games than you're losing, you're clearly doing something right- and if you're not, that's a balance issue, not an MMR issue.
-
One of the changes I'd like to see to hexes is having them only light up a totem after they have an effect on the match- Ruin only lights up a totem once it starts regressing a generator, Devour only lights up a totem after it gains a stack, things like that. For "trap" totems like Haunted Grounds and Retribution, I'd say give it a small activation trigger but also let it light up alongside any other hexes you brought.
Even outside of that, hexes that spawn after the start of the match should be able to snuff boons to make room if they need to. With this change, that'd be all hexes, but they still only spawn in once so that's fine.
-
@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871191#Comment_2871191
"I've never heard a good argument for why the way the MMR is calculated is wrong, it usually seems to boil down to people misunderstanding what the system is for- a focus on measuring individual skill within a specific match, instead of sorting into general skill brackets."
I feel like I had a pretty good argument there. You can literally play like a god against people out of your league, giving them a miserable time, but then choose to lower your MMR just to give them the "win" at the end, even tho the match itself was terrible.
Having more variables doesn't "sort it into general skill brackets". You use all the different variables to calculate the player's overall skill. You don't go "oh this person is good at looping killers, match him with a killer who's good at catching survivors". But it's still a variable that determines skill. Living or dying or getting kills does not determine this at all, as skillful players can make the choice to avoid it.
Sorting into general skill brackets is the current goal. The point isn't to take a hyper-specific look at a single player and ask how skilfully they played each and every match, the point is to have a set of skill brackets for all players based on how skilled they are at winning their matches.
The system only needs to be a general matchmaker, it doesn't need to function like a ranked ladder or sort for a particularly intensely competitive game, it just needs to separate people into broad categories. I do think it has gaps - I'd like to see some adjustments for good loopers that die at the endgame as the only kill, so those players don't lower too far and make games miserable for less skilled killers - but the core design is not a problem.
Players who know how the system works will always have ways of lowering themselves intentionally. There's only so much you can do to compensate for intentionally bad actors.
-
That is certainly a thing that a lot of people have said over the months that MMR has been active, but that doesn't actually make it true.
I've never heard a good argument for why the way the MMR is calculated is wrong, it usually seems to boil down to people misunderstanding what the system is for- a focus on measuring individual skill within a specific match, instead of sorting into general skill brackets.
The devs do understand that there's more to the game than living or dying, and their responses make sense overall. Those things matter in a single match, but if you're looking at aggregate data, winrate is a good proxy for also measuring not only what plays are being attempted, but also how many pay off.
-
I really think there's no way both Ghostface and Legion are going to have their changes pushed in the same update. I don't even know that I'd want that, it'd kind of imply their full attention wasn't given to either...
I could be wrong, of course.
-
Freddy without a doubt. At least Pyramid Head has interesting addons even if they're functionally useless, Freddy has basically nothing useful and like one interestingly designed addon.
-
Moderately so. I don't think we're going to see everything that's been mentioned in this midchapter, but I'm sure it'll have at least some things in it to be pleased with.
Probably some neutral stuff too, maybe even some bad stuff. I try not to get overhyped at all, I like to be pleasantly surprised.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870849#Comment_2870849
Okay, now take into consideration that this isn´t a 1vs1 but a 4vs1. Means all those boons could be present 4 times at the same time.
Remember that the devs strive to bring solos on the same level as SWF. So the perks utitily shouldn´t be considered on how strong they are in a solo experience, but how strong they are in a SWF.
Fact is, that Hex perks need a complete overhaul. They are to much RNG, hex spawns are terrible and permanently losing a perk during the first 60 seconds of the match doesn´t feel right. Undying was a step into the right direction. But then the devs made a 180 turn.
That wasn't my point in mentioning that they're a SWF. My point is that they would've gotten almost exactly the same value out of general meta perks and a good medkit, with the sole exception that Exponential gave them a couple extra pickups, because most of what they did in that video was achieved with skilled play and good callouts. There's also the point that we don't know how those killers played and if they bothered to snuff the totems at all, so it's a slightly shaky piece of proof that boons are OP on all counts.
Yes, all of those boons could be present four times at the same time. That doesn't really change anything since they're still balanced around being infinitely relit, meaning that they're still more subdued than the average hex effect. In fact, it's honestly a little better for you if more than one person is bringing boons (assuming as we are that it isn't CoH) since it means you can eke slowdown out of everyone, not just the dedicated totem jockey.
I'm not here to argue the hex point, though for the record I agree that they need a little tuning. I've got my own ideas for how to fix it, but that's not relevant to this discussion.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870841#Comment_2870841
What exactly was the problem with Ruin being up during all that time? It has 0 effect when survivors stick to gens instead of searching hexes. I´ve played around ruin so many times, completely ignoring it and repairing the last gen while it was still up. Killer can chase only 1 survivor. A killer who got any benefit out of Ruin would be a killer who doesn´t camp and tunnels. 2 things survivors constantly complain about. The original Undying Ruin combo was the best survivors could hope for. Yet people didn´t like it.
Back then, i called it, that camping and tunneling were significantly reduced, thx to Undying. People laughed and now we have always several threads that complain about one of those things.
Shadow Step + Iron Will turns the survivor for the killer into what Spirit was before her nerf. Even when Shadow Step isn´t meta, its still an incredible strong perk. Especially on indoor maps.
If slugging was more prevalent, then Exponential would be present in every match. I mean, i could link you a video of Spooknloopes where his team uses only boons, if you want. Showing how strong they really are.
Could you say, with a straight face, that the following hex perks are strong? Third Seal, Huntress Lullaby, Haunted Ground, Retribution, Blood Favor, Crowd Control, and Pentimento.
I'm not here to argue whether old Undying or old Ruin were better than their modern equivalents, I'm just pointing out the obvious logical answer to the question you posed. You can agree or disagree with it, it's no skin off my nose, the more relevant part is that boons and hexes aren't directly comparable anyway.
I've seen that video. First of all, CoH was in that video and it did the majority of the heavy lifting when it comes to the value the perks brought to the table, and the majority of the value his team received in that video was being coordinated, skilled players on comms, not having all boons. If a team of randoms, or even just a less skilled SWF, tried that tactic they'd see dramatically less value out of it.
Why would I need to say those perks are strong? That's not what I'm arguing. The more pressing concern is if I'd say that Dark Theory, Exponential, and Shadow Step are significantly stronger than those perks, and for the most part, I would say no. Shadow Step is about comparable to the strongest ones on that list, it's definitely the strongest fair boon perk, but the other two are by no means stronger than pretty much any of those perks except maybe Third Seal or Lullaby.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870793#Comment_2870793
No, i´m not aware of that.
Boons are significantly stronger than hexes. Starting with that survivors can set them up where they want, over multiple boons sharing the same spot, over all 4 survivors being able to set them up over the map and ending with that they can be relit as often as survivors want.
I´ll never understand why the devs think that cleansing 4 hex perks was to much for 4 survivors. While they shortly after release boons that the single killer has to cleanse (especially considereing that the killers time is way more precious), are considered totally fine.
It's because while you were cleansing all four of those totems, the strong hex perk - let's face it, probably Ruin - was still up and active. After you snuff a totem, it is then inactive until set up again- all this assuming that the comparison even works on its face, which it obviously doesn't because boons and hexes are not the same mechanic and do not work the same way.
Are boons really significantly stronger than hexes? Can you argue in favour of that without mentioning CoH? Because the other boons are designed around being infinitely relit, from having an effective range both the survivor and the killer needs to be inside to having more subdued effects than the average hex.
-
He definitely doesn't need to have all of his traps on him at the start, that's OP. You are right about having to traverse the four corners of the map being a problem, though- I'd like to see traps only spawn on the same side of the map as him, trending a little towards the centre, so he can at least start juggling traps and locking down areas straight away.
-
@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870783#Comment_2870783
Its not stronger,the biggest thing going for it was the fact it allowed you to know if someone was touching your hex.
That was the biggest thing it had going for it. Now, the biggest thing it has going for it is that it slows down blessing to a tremendous degree and only loses power if a totem is cleansed, not if it's blessed.
I'd argue that's just as strong, if not stronger. Thrill was never a good perk, it was always the second-best totem defence perk out of a grand total of two, so I'm glad to see it have an actual niche now.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870775#Comment_2870775
Boons aren´t strong? So they should be buffed?
You're fully aware I meant that boons aren't designed around being destroyed.
-
You don't really need to protect hexes, some of them kinda require you to be actively doing other things and don't give you the time to protect the totem- Ruin needs survivors pressured off gens, Devour Hope needs a very active playstyle, Blood Favour and Crowd Control are only useful if you're getting in a lot of chases...
Sometimes a totem can be bait, but that's not really the same as needing to defend it.
Also, Thrill wasn't really nerfed, it was reworked. It's just as strong, if not stronger, right now.
-
@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870772#Comment_2870772
You need to even if it isn't coh,shadow step can make you lose a chase,exponential can make you lose a slug,they are more situational than coh but not useless,and usually when survivors run something else other than coh,is usually coh + 1 of these or both.
You cant call the other boons useless since they are good,just more situational.
Please do tell me how not snuffing a shadow step boon on the game is something a killer shouldn't bother with?
Shadow Step is only really gonna make you lose a chase on like, one of maybe three maps, and in those situations you absolutely do want to snuff it. I still wouldn't say need, there's too many variables to say that you always need to snuff it, but you're probably going to want to.
I never said the other boons are useless. I said they aren't overpowered, because they're not. They all give the survivors an edge, but except for CoH none of them give so much of an edge that you absolutely have to snuff it; you can chase without scratch marks, you can avoid slugging, you can... just play normally, Dark Theory kind of is useless.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UGRAN59DX5V8/undying-jpg.jpg
If Hex perks are considered strong in the devs book, then what are boons?
That screenshot explains it right there- hexes are meant to be strong perks that can be destroyed. Boons aren't.
Old Undying isn't comparable even to CoH, they're different problems.
-
@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870758#Comment_2870758
14 seconds for a single survivor to bless a boon,while the others can focus on gens doesn't feel like a secondary objective for survivors at all and more for the killer,especially the kind of power boons can get you.
You're right, it isn't a secondary objective for survivors!
It's not a secondary objective for killers either since you never need to snuff; once again, taking CoH out of the equation, they're all outplayable on their own. What you can do is snuff if it's convenient and get that 14 seconds of slowdown multiple times.
-
@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2870172#Comment_2870172
Survivor needed a secondary objective that doesn't give them any advantage,but something extra they need to do in order to escape.
What we got is a secondary objective for killers to deal with because the boon powers will turn a game even more in the survivors advantage if not dealt with.
Its that obvious.
What we got, in theory, is something that provides back-and-forth slowdown so survivors aren't hugging generators all the time. One way of doing that is having killer powers that impose a detriment on survivors, and the other way of doing it is to give survivors a benefit for going out of their way and ignoring generators.
Once you ignore CoH, it's not as though the boons are overwhelmingly powerful. They're an edge, and in a lot of cases it takes the killer dramatically less time to snuff it than it does for the survivor to set it up.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2869356#Comment_2869356
That even with Shadow Step, the best course of acrion is to ignore it because it takes too much time to go and snuff.
BHVR saw everyone asking for a secondary Survivor objective and they went and made something that gives Killers ANOTHER thing to manage. It shows that whoever designed these aspects of the game clearly doesn't understand.
That is a very context dependant statement.
One of the things that I do think could use some refining is the totem spawns- there are areas that are just too much of a hassle to go snuff, but I wouldn't call those the majority. There are just as many totem spots where snuffing them is quick and easy, and it drags the associated survivor off a generator to set it back up again if they want their perk back.
Boons aren't meant to be a pure secondary objective, they're meant to have back and forth to provide more engaging slowdown than just making an action take longer. The core design does fill that role, it just needs a little push and for CoH to be brought in line.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868340#Comment_2868340
I actually do think Boons as a whole present an issue with design.
How so?
I'd certainly agree the mechanic could do with a little refining, but the core design seems perfectly serviceable to me. What issues do you see with it?