jesterkind
jesterkind
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I agree, in principle - I'm a staunch defender of Grim Embrace, I think it's a fun and healthy design, but it needs a bit of a boost. I don't think the duration of the blocking should be increased, though, that could have some unpleasant side effects. Rather, I'd boost the aura reading to include all survivors, not just the obsession, and maybe boost the duration a little bit too.
Right now its biggest problem (outside of just, activating at a bad time) is that survivors just stealth during its duration because they can't work on generators. With all of them revealed, it's guaranteed there'll be a chase during the time the generators are blocked.
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Surely this is to be expected if they allocate resources to testing experimental changes that don't make it into the midchapter?
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It's had some ups and downs, but it's consistently been better than the old matchmaking.
As with all matchmakers it needs constant upkeep, and this one has some rough edges to smooth out, but I remember rank based matchmaking so I can't be too mad at it.
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On top of the fact that the stats you're referring to are so broad and unfiltered that they're almost meaningless, I've never fully understood how the term "power role" is being used in these discussions.
To me, "power role" must surely mean the role that inherently has more power in terms of core design instead of live balance, so... obviously killer is the power role and always has been. The killer can't be removed from the match, the killer must be either stunned or ran from, and so pretty obviously killer is the power role. As survivor, you can die. As killer, you can't.
So... yeah, of course the killer "should" be the power role, and it is. It has been the whole time.
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Assuming Starstruck is being used at least partially as a stand-in for her ability to use Exposed at all, yes.
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Honestly, I find myself feeling the exact opposite. My BP spend further now, so I actually care about getting smaller amounts from things like challenges and dailies and codes, and so I feel that they're more valuable than they were before.
My only bloodpoint-related complaint is how long you still spend levelling up in the bloodweb.
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218683#Comment_3218683
I don't know, I think you're being a little naive (no offence intended).
How hard is it really for a survivor to know what they're about to do and then press a button to let other players know? For example, if a player knows they're about to go for an unhook and knows there is a command for it, chances are they would press it, especially when they know it will improve their chance of survival.
Again, I like the idea of passive information/icons, but I feel there's more value with chat commands personally. Hopefully we end up with both!
With respect, I'd much sooner characterise your position here as naive. It's not hard at all to push a button, but I have zero faith that a huge chunk of players would actually bother to do it, lol.
In an ideal situation, I'd love active communication tools (as long as it's not voice comms specifically), but I think that the groundwork needs to be laid in case they aren't used. Other games do this too- there's usually a good split between passive and active information conveyance, in my experience.
Both would be ideal, my position is more staked on which is given first.
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218649#Comment_3218649
I don't disagree with you, passive icons would be great, but I think you're under appreciating how useful and simple to use text commands are.
Sure, not every player is going to use them effectively, but most of us veteran players will be able to tell when that's the case. Also, the text commands aren't just for you to read, I think you could provide a lot of value to your team mates by using them even if they choose not to. 'I'm going for the save', 'I'm working on a gen', 'Killer is coming'. They're just nice little drips of info that don't exist currently.
Certainly, I see their value, but the issue currently is that not everyone is on the same page when it comes to information exchange. From that angle, I really feel like their opening moves towards fixing that issue should be angled towards ensuring everyone is on the same page, and the only way to achieve that is passive information.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218649#Comment_3218649
imo, players that fail to use pings, ect, correctly DESERVE to bubble down to bottom MMR. If you cannot play a team game like a team player would, you should not be put in a scenario where your team skills are the deciding factor on how well your team does.
Survivor is too dependent on teamwork to implement a system that can really only functions in a "every man for himself" environment. Makes more senses to have a non-verbal system that allows solo players to communicate on a similar level to swf.
Do their teammates deserve that, though?
You said it yourself, survivor is dependant on teamwork. Should you be expected to continue failing because you're matched with players that can't be bothered to convey information? If we had some decent passive information tools, you'd at least have a lifeline to make good decisions with, to try and compensate for less team-oriented teammates.
Remember, solo survivor has an information deficit right now, so you're flying more blind than you really should be if your teammates won't ping or type in this scenario, exactly where you'd be right now with no changes implemented.
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Voice chat isn't a good idea, and the language barrier is one of the many great reasons why.
As for text commands... that's more doable, but it's what I'd classify as "active" information exchange. IE, it requires your teammates to not only bother using it at all, but to know how and when to use it most effectively. What this game needs before it can get away with active information exchange is some robust passive information exchange, like the status icons and the ability to see your teammate's builds, and like a basekit Kindred, etc etc.
I'm not against text commands or a ping wheel at all, but we need something that isn't dependant on teammates bothering to use it first.
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I'd love to see a test weekend where it's disabled, like the bloodlust test they did however long ago that was.
Maybe the aim dressing actually is helping invisibly in a lot of areas we just don't notice, but I doubt it. It really seems like it does far more harm than good.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218420#Comment_3218420
If you got destroyed you often did not play well, nor did your team. It's like immediately getting knocked out in a boxing match. Does it feel sincere if your opponent says "well fought"?
Maybe not in extreme circumstances, but what it does feel like is politeness. You know, a little bit of sympathy for a game that was over super quickly.
I dunno, I don't like assuming the worst of people. I'd rather think it's an attempt at polite sportsmanship than an attempt at mockery.
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Oh, I always see that as more of a polite thing. I can win decisively and the other side can play well, those two aren't mutually exclusive, and I personally feel like acknowledging your opponent's skill is the polite and sportsmanlike response to a win.
A good old "gg wp" is what I want to see when I lose, I wanna see someone win with grace.
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@bm33 said:
Cool I guess? Kinda feels like they keep moving away from horror and instead of being "horror hall of fame" are heading towards "anyone we can collaborate with, doesn't matter the genre, hall of fame."
Should that badge apply to crossovers that go the other way? I kinda feel like it's okay to move away from horror licenses if those licenses aren't coming into DBD, but rather DBD is going into those licenses.
They're still a horror hall of fame if, say, Trapper goes and hangs out somewhere else for a bit.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217019#Comment_3217019
It matters because there's an expectation for live-service games to be able and willing to accommodate such an event (since that's sorta the whole idea behind live-service games to begin with) when the other live-service game that it is collaborating with is able and willing to make the same accommodation itself. Resident Evil Village isn't expected to have seasonal/quarterly/yearly events and expansions to its game in the same way.
Sure, but I don't see why it should be expected that they must do so every single time it is technically possible.
There's nothing wrong with another game having some DBD stuff in it, there's no reason why DBD must necessarily have a proportionate amount of content at the exact same time. Like, I get wanting it, but there's this weird transposition happening where people put their expectation of what should happen onto what is happening, which is how you get to the For Honor charm somehow being insulting or "dropping the ball" when its purpose was very clearly not to fill that role to begin with.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217013#Comment_3217013
Resident Evil Village is not a live-service ever-evolving game that is continuously worked on over time. Dead By Daylight is (as is For Honor).
I absolutely cannot see any angle through which that could possibly matter, so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217010#Comment_3217010
And that's exactly the problem. It was an event about DBD that DBD players got pretty much nothing out of unless they owned a completely separate game.
I genuinely don't understand that argument.
Nobody complained about (for example) Resident Evil Village not having any DBD content, nobody said "it's an RE event that RE players get nothing out of unless they own a separate game", so why is the expectation there when it goes the other way?
This game THRIVES on one-way crossovers.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216995#Comment_3216995
There was close nothing for the DBD players who don't play For Honor. If this crossover was a celebration of the two games, Dead By Daylight brought the napkins.
IF, yes.
But, considering it was a For Honor event and not a both-games or DBD event, the charm was simply to promote and commemorate it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216937#Comment_3216937
Hey, not my fault that BHVR dropped the ball hard last time. :P
I'd be curious about how "promoting an event they were involved in" was dropping the ball, personally!
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There is a point at which I do think it would be a good idea, but I don't think that point is now.
If for no other reason than cheaters. The game would need a much more robust anti-cheat if making new accounts became entirely free, and it's not in that state now. If they ever got to a point where they felt comfortable tackling cheaters like that, then I do think it could benefit the game in a lot of ways.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216782#Comment_3216782
No. :) I will react the same as last time if that's what they do this time.
Bit of a weird flex, but I suppose I can't stop you.
It'd be a shame, though.
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Definitely most looking for solo queue improvements, beyond that I'm good for whatever they choose to work on.
Continued perk overhauls and maybe some in-depth map generation changes would be pretty nice, too. Maps remain one of the biggest balance issues in the game, after the more absurd perks have been brought down to a manageable level.
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If DBD does put out a charm to promote this one too, I desperately hope people can be normal about it this time.
That was some of the most embarrassing stuff I've ever seen, last time.
At the topic- curious to see what it'll be. Maybe I'll reinstall PUBG and give it more of a chance, lol.
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Last we heard on the topic, it's basically out of their hands- they're waiting on/are roadblocked by something on the platform's ends, not theirs.
So, who knows when!
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Complete pipe dream tier: Kanaya Maryam as a legendary skin for Hillbilly
More reasonably: Moira Burton as a legendary skin for... well, I would say Claire if she were her own character, but since she's not any of the RE ladies would work. She's probably the best remaining fit for DBD, her gimmick in her game is literally a flashlight blind mechanic.
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216228#Comment_3216228
I wish Deadmans Switch activated when you get unhooked, not when you get hooked. Or that it gets reverted to how it was before they changed it cause of Pain Resonance. I don't use it much, but from playing against it it feels like it's useless unless you bring pain res and then it's unfun and oppressive.
Eh, the combo isn't that bad. You just have to let go of the generator before the person gets hooked, and then DMS doesn't activate.
It is, however, worth discussing, at least in my opinion. It's not anywhere near as oppressive as it used to be, but it's still annoying to face.
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To be fair, half of what you're describing here does require killer input. Hooking, kicking generators, even getting downs, these are active things, versus Ruin literally just requiring a survivor to let go of a generator and that's it.
(Though for the record I don't think Ruin was changed for that reason, I think it was changed because it had a very high pickrate and the purpose of the update was to change the meta)
Although, your last two confuse me. Which perk is it that activates when you miss your attacks? Unrelenting...? And the last one there is Unnerving Presence, which actually hurts the killer due to the great skill check zones being a little easier to hit, so that's a bad perk to mention in this context.
Definitely on firmer ground with DMS, though. There's a conversation there about how well it should get to play with Pain Res.
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Seconding what everyone else is saying in that having fun is the reason to play the game, but there's one thing I'm confused on- what exactly stops Iri 1 from being an overall goal to work towards now...? It never was "the" main objective, but if you liked using it as your overall goal before, what's changed there?
There's more reason to use it as your overall goal, in fact, since you actually get rewarded for doing it now.
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Most winrates probably are fine, yeah, but that's not the only thing that goes into balance considerations.
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Twofold.
First, make snares and dream pallets basekit. They share an ammo pool and can be swapped like Clown's bottles, the ammo pool is slightly increased to compensate.
Second comes the big part. A complete addon overhaul that prioritises giving Freddy different illusory objects with different effects, ranging from extremely situational ones like chests all the way up to extremely impactful ones like fake generators and fake lit totems. Touching these cause them to melt away, and higher tiers of the addons could also inflict status effects.
The reason I say to make these addons instead of all a part of his kit is both to allow more options without his kit becoming way too cluttered, and also so that survivors don't know going in what he has available. They have to fall asleep and actually touch one before they'll know he has it... or prioritise waking up so they don't have to.
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Not strictly accurate- survivors going really far out of their way to BM become weak links if you surprise them after ignoring them for a while, but by and large I really don't care when survivors BM.
The only thing I even think should be considered genuinely bad manners and not just being cheeky is when people hang around in the exit gates until nearly the end of the EGC just to teabag, and even then, I just go break some pallets of farm Deviousness with my power lol. It's really not that big of a deal.
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I think you could use it on him for sure, but the tentacle is so good - especially at tier 3 - that I think you're gonna train yourself into bad habits to gain stacks on STBFL where getting good with the tentacle would be the better call.
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Pushing these new mechanics to their breaking points is just as important as seeing how they function in a regular match, so your teammates there aren't really doing anything wrong.
At least, until they start berating you. At that point, they're being dicks and I'm fully behind you, that's uncalled for.
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@toxik_survivor said:
You can't just say they should be fixed. What is their to fix?
They mean fixed as in static, so they always spawn in the exact same places.
To that topic, I don't think I agree. Variation in maps is a good thing to have in the game, I don't think they should toss it away entirely.
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No Mither isn't getting nerfed.
As for how to buff it, I think your idea just slaps too many benefits on a single perk, so I don't think that's the way to go. Increasing your grunts of pain reduction to 100% would be a nice buff that makes it more useful while maintaining its current use case, and that'd have it pair nicer with other stealth perks, so if it's to get a buff I think that's the way to go.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209153#Comment_3209153
nah but like is changing the number 100 to a 30 and a number 5 to a 3 that much of an ask.
For balance stuff? I mean, wouldn't the results of that testing be kind of unusable considering they'd be tested for the version of the game that has anti-slug and finishing mori mechanics?
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I feel like our first genuinely small midchapter since they started making big swings with those is a fair price to pay for continued work on the biggest changes to ever hit the game, personally.
They don't all have to be new and shiny, they can just have some nice quality of life changes when we know it's because bigger things are in development.
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If you can slug everyone within 45 seconds of the first down, I kinda feel like either the survivors massively messed up or there's some other massive balance problem happening there.
Of all the potential issues with these new mechanics, I honestly don't believe this is one of them. It's probably fine.
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209022#Comment_3209022
Separate PTBs. They did that before. Either way,we have jackshit coming to live.
I figure they also spent a lot of time on the two massive things in this PTB, which contributes.
Anyway, that's not true. We just don't have balance changes coming to live. I remember this happening with another patch too, that contained quite a lot of meaningful changes but only tweaked a few addons for direct balance, and everyone acted like we got nothing in that patch too. Granted, that one had noticeably more than this one, but that makes sense given the context.
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To be fair, it's not as though they can actually meaningfully test any new balance or content changes considering there's the gigantic and tenuous anti-slug and finishing mori changes in this PTB.
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To be fair, that anti-slug mechanic isn't coming in this patch so we don't know if the Twins will get their balance pass first.
There's just nothing in this PTB, so I imagine playing Twins on the PTB is going to be a nightmare but not much more.
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@lagosta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207243#Comment_3207243
Giving up a health state to not bleed and reduce grunts of pain is hardly a good enough trade-off. No Mither could be used for the memes by going down on pallets or close to teammates but when it becomes base kit, there will be no reason to use it. I wonder if BHVR will change it by adding a different effect or removing the downside.
Maybe this is just differing experiences, but I don't think I've ever seen a killer actually slug someone with No Mither. I'd also been under the impression that nobody used No Mither for its ability to pick up off the ground solo, if it's ever used it's used because it makes you permanently injured or because it makes you pretty darn stealthy.
I'm not saying No Mither is ever really a tactically wise decision but I also really don't think its use case is going to change with the basekit self-pickup.
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I'm not sure I'm following?
I imagine No Mither takes the "pick yourself up" part out of its description, since it'd be redundant, but nothing else is gonna change?
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I question whether DBD should be considered a horror game, by that logic.
Certainly it has a horror aesthetic, but I wouldn't call its core gameplay all that horror-inspired. It's more of a cat-and-mouse game than a pure, strict horror experience where you actually feel fear or tension regarding its mechanics. Through that lens killer is much closer to where it should be- enough of a threat that you do run, but not so much of a threat that being close to the killer puts you in insurmountable danger, for the most part. You can't run the killer if the killer is too threatening, that'd end up with the game being a lot more hide-and-seek.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206746#Comment_3206746
If killers don't need any buffs, then solo q also doesn't need buffs. Most of the time, the solo q problems are survivors that refuse to learn how the killers work, and refuse to learn the proper counterplay for the killers. There are so many posts on these forums about survivors complaining that certain killers or certain addons with "literally zero counterplay", despite the fact that I get matched against survivors that understand counterplay, and I refuse to believe they are all SWFs.
The other big solo q problem are the survivors that want to play selfishly, and excessively hide instead of helping their team with chases. If solo q was given extra game information, these survivors would just use it to play even more selfishly, so they can prioritize their own escape above everyone else's. And extra game information won't help if you're a solo q survivor matched with a 3-SWF, because they still might throw you under a bus to prioritize their team's escape.
But these are two completely different concepts you're comparing here, unless I'm missing something?
The point of fixing the information gap for solo queue isn't that it's too hard to play survivor without it, it's that solo queue and SWF are meaningfully completely different groups that can't be balanced the same way. Any balance change that the devs make to survivor will be drastically different between the group that has information and the group that doesn't have information.
Killer doesn't need buffs because killer has what they need. Solo survivors do not have what they need to be at the same level as SWF, and that is partially because of things that can't be fixed like bad teammates, but it's partially because they straight up do not have the information they'd need to coordinate with their teammates should they decide they want to. This isn't a problem because it's too difficult, solo queue is still extremely winnable in most scenarios, it's a problem because it reinforces that clear balancing gap.
Some of it will be quality of life - it'd be nice to run actual builds in solo queue instead of being forced into running certain perks - but most of it is a legitimate balancing concern completely divorced from specific player experience.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206668#Comment_3206668
Killers really don't have enough information against SWFs though. For example, when SWFs use voice comms to warn each other where the killer is, which allows them to hide much earlier than they should be able to, the killer doesn't have anything basekit to help find these survivors.
Even when the killer isn't against a SWF, when a killer hooks a survivor, the killer doesn't have anything basekit to tell them if anyone is even doing generators. Because if none of the survivors are doing generators, then why should the killer leave the hook?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206655#Comment_3206655
I have an issue with Duos and Trios getting buffed for free. Why should we listen to the survivors that complain about solo q balance, if we're completely ignoring the killers that complain about SWF balance? It's PAINFULLY obvious that people just want the solo q buffs, and want to give killers absolutely zero buffs to help them against SWFs.
Of course the killer has ways of finding survivors? Breathing, scratch marks, disturbed crows, generators that were sparking but now aren't, disturbances in environmental objects like grass and corn...
The thing is that killer doesn't really need buffs to help them against SWFs. Against fully coordinated meta-build high-skill teams, sure, but not against the mere concept of playing against people who happen to be in a group on voice. Even if we were to focus on the higher ends of SWF, the problem there tends to lay far more in unbalanced perks and items and maps, not in basekit deficiencies.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206536#Comment_3206536
It is extra information though, because people can only get it via third party software. If survivors are getting extra information, then killers should get extra information too. One of the strengths of SWFs using voice comms is specifically that survivors get an option to receive a lot of additional game information, but killers don't get an option to receive a lot of additional game information.
Also, as mentioned before, at average MMR, SWFs don't really get a large survival rate boost, which means that the majority of the people complaining about solo q aren't going to see much of a difference, and will therefore just continue to complain that BHVR won't give them even more free stuff. But at high MMR, the extra information will buff 2-SWF and 3-SWF, and make them even more unbalanced and miserable for killers to play against.
Yes, but those with third party software are creating the standard, not gaining information above the standard. You can't do anything to curtail them, so they should become the benchmark, not solos.
Besides, the information is only one half of the strength of a SWF, so it's not really equalising anyway. Solo is always going to be weaker because you can't guarantee good teammates (or at least teammates you're friendly with), but it doesn't need to have the information deficit it currently has on top of that.
Killers don't need to gain extra information to "balance" it or whatever, because the point is that solo players have too little information. Killer has pretty much all the information they need to play the game at base, with perks and addons giving nice extra information, whereas solo players lack critical information.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206505#Comment_3206505
If survivors are given action icons, then the killer should have access to them too. If survivors are allowed to be more efficient with extra information, then the killer should be allowed to be more efficient with extra information.
That's kind of the point, though. It's not extra information, because it is the information that solo queue currently lacks.
If it ends up being too much of a boost then certainly things will have to be changed to accommodate, but there's just no getting away from the fact that solo queue has what is meaningfully an information deficit that needs to be fixed.
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@PaintedDeath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206505#Comment_3206505
Hmmm, I still disagree with you, but I also believe that soloq could be given some information to help it out vs SWF. Kindred shouldn't disappear or become basekit entirely. Give them the ability to see just the killer within range, and icons to know what the rest of the team is doing. If I know a dude is repairing a Gen while someone is on hook, that could help me make the decision on whether I should head over there or not. Would also get Killer's away from the hook since they are 100% being lit up while near hook.
Definitely, the basekit information is going to be strictly weaker than comms, but it can be something.
I think just showing the teammate auras and leaving the killer aura to the perk would be perfectly balanced. People underrate the killer aura part of Kindred, it's not just for camping and it's definitely enough to warrant running the perk sometimes, at least imo.
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@PaintedDeath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206379#Comment_3206379
Soloq's are not having part of their kit "hijacked" by information perks. Survivors are not supposed to have the information SWFs have, you are supposed to utilize your perks to gain advantages.
That ship has sailed so long ago that it's probably been decommissioned entirely by now.
"Should" is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that people have access to SWF, and that is causing balance problems. The basekit information needs to be brought up higher, so that survivor can be a cohesive whole that can be balanced at the same time, not two entirely separate groups.
Besides, that argument's weak. You could've made the same argument about Borrowed Time, it wouldn't have changed that the basekit anti-tunnel was non-existent at the time.