jesterkind
jesterkind
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I think you're missing the point about why SoloQ needs buffing, though. It's because it's a nightmare to balance effectively when any changes made will be received dramatically differently between the players who have information and the players who do not.
Also, your conclusion misses all the solo players who do win a majority of their games, but who still feel it needs to be changed because they don't like having parts of their builds hijacked by the requirement to run perks like Kindred- and considering that basekit BT and possibly even basekit Unbreakable have been used to cover for required-pick perks in other areas, it's not that unreasonable at all to suggest something equivalent be done for solo players. It's not all about escape rates, there are other reasons things might need to be changed.
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I don't know who's telling you that Kindred being basekit is to stop tunnelling and camping, but that's not the reason that it should become basekit- or more accurately, half of it should become basekit, the killer aura reading can remain on the perk itself.
The reason that Kindred should become basekit is because the information gap between SWF and Solo-Q is causing serious balancing problems, and that's resulting in a noticeable escape rate difference. It's impossible to balance the survivor side of the game accurately when your changes will be received dramatically differently between those who have the information inherent to guaranteed good teammates and voice comms, and those who don't.
Basekit Kindred eliminates one of the biggest discrepancies in Solo/SWF information sharing, which is coordinating hook saves. It alone doesn't bring Solo-Q up to a reasonable standard for balancing around, but it'd be a very good, very solid first step. That is why "basekit Kindred" is a good idea, not baseless whining.
Finally, no killer is punished by the basekit BT if they aren't tunnelling.
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I can't say I've noticed that all, if I've noticed any specific nationality it's normally something Eastern European.
They aren't a clear majority, though, just the only ones I can pick out. I don't think anything particularly funky is going on with my region-matching in that regard.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203560#Comment_3203560
Lets be real. This statement exists because big time streamers have threatened to pull out over an issue BHVR has been very lax about. Cheating has always been a thing in the game, but exploded with dedicated servers. That was, what, three years ago? While BHVR may have been taking steps behind the scenes, it just keeps getting worse.
Remember the whole color blind fiasco, where they only made it known they were working on something only AFTER the explosion? This is the same deal. Whether something comes out of it or not, we'll see. It circles back to my biggest issue with BHVR, and that's taking literal years to make substantial changes.
I hope things change for the better, I really do. However, this dev team HAS made me a distrustful, or at the very least, pessimistic on things they say they're doing.
My point exactly.
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I mean, those two suggestions cover for completely, wildly different things, so hypothetically you could have both.
Kindred is a solo queue improvement, Unbreakable is to complement a new mechanic and to combat one of the "unfun scenarios" they've been looking at recently. They're not comparable ideas.
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The only way that statement could read as an "empty politician statement" is if you view it with inherent, pre-decided distrust and condemnation.
People were getting frustrated with a lack of communication, too. That's why the statement exists at all.
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Shattered Hope and Ruin are both terrible picks for basekit perks, though. Not being able to kick generators until someone dies is a gigantic downgrade, and Shattered Hope is only arguably acceptable as a perk because you have to give up a perk slot to use it, there's a very good reason it isn't basekit.
More than just picking apart those two suggestions, though, I want to highlight that there aren't really any killer perks that you could make basekit as an equivalent. Borrowed Time was made basekit because the game was severely lacking any anti-tunnel tools that weren't tied to perks, and Unbreakable is being considered to combat slugging- what would the equivalent of that be for killers? No single killer perk neatly covers for a basekit problem that killers face, the problems that the killer side faces tends to be unbalanced perks/builds or general map design.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201414#Comment_3201414
My point is that the necessity for agitation to be made basekit only matters because this basekit change threw off a core gameplay mechanic. You can't just pick and choose things ala carte in a game thats been being built upon every 3 months for what, 6 years now? You need to look at the mechanic from every angle, as well as every change thats been done to the game and how it affects every factor of said mechanic. I defend this sensibility when it comes to things like how they have yet to bother to incorporate any engine rewrites for better ingame reporting and/or anti-cheat features that would be a lot of work to incorporate, but then they just turn around and take a wrecking ball to their own mechanical structure making it look much more like an excuse than a reason. Especially since they'd rather break it and see how people react than implement obvious fixes to the obvious issues they introduce. Remember the CoH PTB? or even the recent 5 stacking endurance one? They had their chance with the Key/Mori rework, and showed that they would rather focus on one side and hope they can figure everything else after the fact.
Certainly, but we shouldn't forget that this is not a typical update. It's not going live in the following update, which implies quite heavily (at least to me) that they're using this PTB as a legitimate testing ground for concepts, not just for finding bugs and getting close-to-live-fire feedback for minor tweaks.
If later on down the line they haven't made serious changes when they implement this, sure, but we should give them the benefit of the doubt for doing something different here. Like you said, it's a very integral mechanic being toyed with, it's good that they're testing it more cautiously.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201282#Comment_3201282
It does more to combat actual realistic slugging (i.e. prioritizing targets in chase, hook sabo/slugs no longer resetting wiggle, hooks removed by kills creating deadzones, etc) than it does to stop the fringe cases people complained about (4 slug nurse momentum, BM bleedout, etc.) Sure it has an impact on the latter, but hurts the former considerably more when they were reasonable applications and more likely to occur. If your comparison is accurate, then perks like Agitation or Iron Grasp now need to take the same basekit jump since this change made those problems both worse and more exploitable.
Basically they took the usual "nerf the whole perk because of one extreme synergy" approach to a core gameplay mechanic.
The end result of the slugging is the same, though, to be fair.
That being said, something like a basekit Agitation (without the TR increase, naturally) wouldn't be a terrible additional change to add more interplay. Based on what we've seen so far, giving the killer ways of affecting this new mechanic would be a good call, so long as they can't completely deny it permanently.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201222#Comment_3201222
The point I am trying to make is giving killers a 1.2 second benefit here and there is not the same as giving basekit perks out and buffed variants to the survivor team. I don't want to do the math but every single change of 6.1 other than the DH nerf and 10 seconds to gens is negligible(on the order of sub 1 second benefits and sub 5 meter deltas in chase, true they do add up, I would argue that they still are not worth basekit unbreakable). The mini pop is on the order of sub 1 second gained(1.8 seconds to kick the gen, .025 * 90 = 2.25 seconds shaved off, it's still a net loss of time for the killer assuming other survivors are on gens)
Right, but that's because the basekit gaps they were filling were much smaller. Killer didn't have any glaring issues that could be solved by a single perk becoming basekit, and survivors did. That's why that perk was made basekit, because it neatly solved a problem in a way that no single killer perk would for killer problems.
The killer changes were still the equivalent for that update, and the fact remains that there's no clear equivalent for this basekit Unbreakable, if it happens to go through. It's not just a free perk for no reason, it's to combat slugging, and there isn't really an equivalent on the killer side unless you branch out into just unbalanced perks and builds- at which point, the equivalent change would just be to nerf those perks and builds.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201177#Comment_3201177
Let's look at the "basekit changes" that have been given. Killers got .2 and .3 second changes, survivors get 2 meta perks basekit now and actually buffed variants if they bring those perks still. Are you really going to compare a .2 second change to sprint burst to basekit BT and unbreakable?
(4.0 * 1.5 * 2.0) = 12 vs (4.0 * 1.5 * 1.8) + (4.0 * .2) = 8.64 + .8 = 9.44 or a difference of 2.56 meters.
In your opinion 2.56 meters less distance holding w is the same as basekit unbreakable and borrowed time?
So, part of what you're missing here is the intended function of the changes, on both sides. Just saying "meta perks" is extremely misleading, because they weren't "meta perks", they were specific meta perks. Specifically, the ones that covered for basekit gaps; the ones that were meta specifically because the game was lacking at basekit and survivors had extreme incentive to bring those or suffer at the hands of a killer employing certain tactics.
As for the basekit changes, you're cherrypicking. Not well, because the post-hit sprint was one of the more impactful changes, but still- the point of the less noticeable changes, like the blade-wipe animation and the pallet-kick animation, was for you to have less overall downtime across the entire trial. But the more important changes were the 90 second generator change, the extra regression on generator kick, and the post-hit sprint reduction, all of which gave killers far more room to generate pressure. They were good changes and they were the equivalent of basekit BT, they aimed to address perks killers felt they needed to bring or suffer at the hands of a coordinated team.
For the record, I am resolutely neutral on the basekit Unbreakable. I will have to see both it being tested on the PTB and whatever changes they make before it hits live before I can commit to an opinion. Right now, I think it could be a good idea but has too many blind spots to be abused without further changes.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201084#Comment_3201084
Ok. Where and what are the killer equivs? How do I stop 45 second hyperfocus + stakeout + toolbox gens? Or how do I stop someone from going into a hook deadzone/high spot with boil over and becoming impossible to get to a hook now? Or 8 second medkit heals? Or CoH heals?
So, you're talking about two separate spheres of issues there; you're asking about killer equivalents to basekit changes and you're talking about unbalanced perks/builds on the survivor side. Those are two separate things, so I'll answer them separately, I hope that's alright.
To the unbalanced stuff like eight second heals and Hyperfocus builds, the answer is you don't. Those things are overtuned and need to be brought in line, but they're also not super relevant to the basekit changes because they're a case of improving your chances of winning, not responding to/countering unfun tactics.
As for the killer equivalents, what would the killer equivalents be? Obviously there's all the basekit changes from 6.1.0, those are the killer equivalents to, say, the basekit BT. But after that... what perk becoming basekit would universally help killers in the way that the survivor changes help them? If you squint, slightly shuffle definitions around, and completely ignore both Trapper and Hag, you could maybe get to Corrupt Intervention, but that's the only example I can think of and personally I don't want that to become basekit. It's kind of a false equivalent, killers don't have specific perks they need to bring in case survivors take advantage of basekit gaps like tunnelling and camping on the killer end.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201059#Comment_3201059
They shouldnt have to ask. It comes across as immensely tone deaf. “Well we know there’s a hacker situation but if people are having fun with it then we’ll take our time dealing with it like we do everything else that isn’t deemed a ‘priority’”
My assumption is that it's there to contextualise the other answers from any given person, and to get a read on how many people feel that hackers are ruining their matches personally. It's the same reason the "how many hackers do you face" question is there- it's not there to get an objective measure, it's there to get a feeling for how many hackers that respondent thinks they're facing.
I just think it's weird people are acting like a satisfaction survey asking how they feel about something is somehow unexpected, honestly.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201084#Comment_3201084
Camping and tunneling is understood to some extend. But slugging? How stupid or cocky does the team have to be to go down one after the other? Never happens in my killer matches.
It's insurance against being left to bleed out for four minutes, mostly. If you're actually being slugged, not just left on the ground for a few seconds, it can be an immensely boring and unfun situation to be in, just like being camped.
I wouldn't have called it a problem in the same vein myself, but I see where the change comes from. For the most part it shouldn't be too big of a problem, though I imagine it'll need further refining before it can hit live. That's not relevant, though- I'm challenging the idea of "freeing up perk slots for survivor" being a bad thing, specifically.
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Putting aside the potential issues with a basekit Unbreakable, is that not a good thing?
There are a lot of perks on both sides that, historically, it's felt damn near necessary to bring. Surely it's a good thing that they're pushing for a version of the game where you no longer feel the need to bring insurance against being camped, tunnelled, or slugged, because you have basekit options for it?
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I'd imagine it's to gauge how frustrated the respondent is with the hacker problem, no?
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@HungrySnek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200988#Comment_3200988
It is weird because they know they have a hacker problem and are doing nothing. In the past they made a shadow ban wave and what then? These people used 10$ and came back with a new account
It's not weird at all. There's a hacker problem and they're doing stuff behind the scenes, yes, but it's still useful information for them to know how the players feel about it.
There's a reason they ask you how many matches you feel you're facing hackers in. Asking that, and then asking how frustrating it is, is useful to know how the community is feeling about it. Which is the point of a satisfaction survey, right?
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There are people who aren't that fussed. It's not useless information to try and get a feeling for how many people are as incandescent as you versus how many people consider it an amusing oddity.
It's a satisfaction survey, it'd be weird if it didn't ask you how big of a problem you think it is.
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I see potential for abuse, but I also see potential for this to be a very healthy change. It's pretty gigantic as far as game changes go, it's premature to react fully right now.
I am concerned about a few more perks than the ones being changed- most notably Deerstalker, which near as I can tell is basically never going to be useful?
Infinite Unbreakable is pretty scary. Maybe some killer stuff should interact with it? Like, say you can't pick yourself up if you're Broken and need someone else to do it, or say Haemorrhage now applies to the dying state, or something. I'll have to play on this PTB before I can give solid feedback, but it definitely looks pretty scary.
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I would say no- survivors currently need more incentive to go mess with tapes, not less. I guarantee fewer would bother doing anything about tapes until the very very last second if they couldn't hold their items at the same time.
It's the same reason that I think turning off a TV should be the longer cooldown for Onryo's teleport; messing with TVs gives survivors Condemned, which means they're a little bit more at risk and the Onryo player doesn't have to break their back with predictive teleports (and awful cooldowns) just to get anyone started on that timer.
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I've never fully understood this argument. Surely if you're dropping far enough to be matched with absolute babies, you're also getting matched with at least comparably low-skilled killers?
It's been my experience that the matchmaking can toss you into some mildly frustrating lobbies from time to time, but it's hardly the only thing that ever happens. Mostly just bringing the closest thing to a self-sufficient build you can is a good insurance against that.
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I certainly empathise with having no totems when you're running a boon, it's happened to me too and it's very annoying, but the team very much has a way to heal without any boon spots.
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I'm not against this change at all, though I agree with an above comment that lowering the cooldown would be a better compensation buff than increasing the regression. Maybe not all the way down to 0, that might be a bit much, but I think it's a good idea to steer away from anything that takes too huge a chunk off generator progression.
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I think there's a very high chance it'll be the mori rework, since that's supposed to be around now.
Could always be more things alongside that though, I'm pretty hype to see the entirety of the update.
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I can't say I've noticed that, I still get a ton of brown and yellow ones.
I will say I basically never see any purple ones, though. Even higher up with a lot more purple nodes, it's very rarely a medkit.
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How d'you mean by auto-aimer?
Like, the aim dressing system? Because that's part of the game. If you're talking about a third party program, absolutely it's cheating.
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Not enough, but a good sign.
Personally, I think it should probably function like Wiretap and have a requirement of 33%. That seems like a fair number, and opens up a little synergy with the two perks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
If BHVR doesn't want to make exclusive skins for prime, fine, but the currency they should give in prime should be iridescent shards instead of bloodpoints. 🤷
I wouldn't say "instead of", necessarily. A combination of BP and Iri Shards would be a really solid Prime reward, honestly better than a huge portion of the other offers on that page.
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I watched a horror youtuber I enjoy break down these movies once, and even that limited of an exposure alone was enough for me to wanna see this license come to DBD.
No idea how feasible it is from the business side of things, but there's gotta be a lot of groundwork for the gameplay and perks.
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I haven't gotten to play on it that much so maybe that's why, but I haven't really had that much of a problem on it from either side. A little survivor sided, but most maps tend to be.
My major complaint is that it's impossibly dark inside that house. I don't know why this keeps happening, it's such a nightmarishly bad decision to make in a game like this...
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@Pizzaman said:
Come on fellow players. Just scan the QR Code with your "mobile device" and get those Bloodpoints. You know YOU WANT IT!
Did I already mention how the Bloodpoints do not count towards the cap?
Btw. nothing nefarious will happen to you or be done with the data Amazon (or other parties) will collect, OK? It's all just a good deed, to you, the fellow player!
Trust me. And trust Amazon. And trust every other company that may get the meta data as well.
Look at the 400k juicy blood money, ehhhh, I mean Bloodpoints. All you have to do is scan the QR Code with your "mobile device".
Do it already. You need the Bloodpoints, so scan the code! Just forget about the part where some data may or may not be collected and concentrate on the part where YOU PROFIT!
It's easy. JUST. SCAN. THE. CODE.
I'm all for dunking on Amazon for their horrible privacy policies but to be entirely fair it's not a QR code lol
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192224#Comment_3192224
It's not rare. Aura reading perks are used. All. The. Time.
I can't believe there's so much concern for this edge case, apparently. Can't even drive you to consider a perk slot.
This isn't about what I bring into trials...?
This is about game balance, not what I personally consider bringing into a game. Frankly, I don't actually see that many Nurses, because this take is not based on my personal experiences, it's based on a wider understanding of the game than that.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192209#Comment_3192209
If you only 'might see it' then it's clearly not the overblown threat it's made out to be. There exists a meta, if Nurse aura reading is SO overpowered, use distortion. It's a fantastic perk. Nurse triggers aura perks the same way every other killer does, and suffers the same cooldown restraints.
The devs aren't going to spoon feed anyone anymore than that.
...Like I said, something isn't balanced just because it's rare.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192198#Comment_3192198
Dude. Distortion. It's in the text block you quoted.
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192198#Comment_3192198
If you are going against killers using aura perks frequently, Distortion is a very good pick after its buffs. Nurse is just one of the killers that synergize well with aura-reading.
Fatigue add-ons are pretty negligible in all seriousness in actual impact. Recharge add-ons are strong but balanced, and can be learned around, because every blink will have a consistent recharge timer. If the Nurse just used both blinks and she has both blinks 0.5s after two blinks into a hit, that means she has double recharge. So on and so forth.
I would be interested in seeing evidence that indicates Exposed + aura perk combos on her results in her overperforming when matched against players of equal skill level on an even-sided map.
Something doesn't become balanced because of one perk you could bring if you think you might see it. I'm not going against killers using aura perks frequently, but if I were, I wouldn't have a problem with it, because even the killers who use aura reading the most effectively can't hold a candle to the highest potential of the Nurse.
This isn't a "mad because bad" situation, guys, I happen to think this is unbalanced even though I don't face it that often. That's kind of a lose/lose argument for you, because either it's happening so often that it's forcing you to equip a specific perk all the time, or it doesn't happen that much and so safeguarding against it with basekit changes won't affect that many people.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192179#Comment_3192179
Each Exposed perk has its own unique counterplay/avoidance method. Nurse has her own counterplay method. When it comes to Exposed perks on Nurse, players have both options they can go about it with. They can either counterplay the Exposed perk itself, Nurse, or both.
If you expect to be going against killers that synergize well with aura perks (eg, if that’s been the trend of your games), Distortion is a great pick for almost completely shutting that option down. Other than that, bad map design is its own issue.
It really seems like your takeaway here is that the Nurse is fine, though, and that's pretty clearly not the case.
Again, there's no counterplay for a killer that can instadown you through walls with aura reading. If the Nurse doesn't have those, great, there's counterplay- assuming that she also doesn't have addons that change the timings for things like recharge and fatigue, anyway. If she does have the former, though, you go down or she misplays, there's no actual counterplay.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192141#Comment_3192141
Dragon’s Grip - Giant cooldown, effect lasts only 30s, requires being paired with something like Call of Brine/Overcharge/etc to do meaningful damage in the 30s (since base regression is -0.25 c/s = 7.5s of damage).
Make Your Choice - Scream is pretty much irrelevant because the unhook will give a notification regardless (beyond the sound of the scream I guess). Cooldown + requires exiting range = Injured survivor can unhook after she leaves.
Devour Hope - Is a hex, can be killed at 0 tokens
Haunted - One-time use unless paired with Undying, does not give locations of anyone except the breaker in of itself unless paired with Retribution, doing said multi-Hex combos = gambling away multiple perk slots on non-regression
NOED - Gimmick as always, can be hidden out/killed after it spawns/ignored and left/etc. Getting better value requires either location perks or something like NWO/Blood Warden, which is gambling away perk slots for end build. Totems spawn under specific rules and potential locations, and survivors can remember totems they see before endgame. Kinda bad design, could use a rework.
Rancor - Only affects obsession, gives early notice to said obsession, and the final reveal can be hidden from. Kind of an awfully designed perk despite how gimmicky it is because you can literally AFK till endgame and then instadown and Mori them, should be reworked.
I wish Calm Spirit wasn’t such utter garbage, cause then maybe it would be more relevant against stuff like Infectious Fright. On the other hand, Distortion is quite solid post-buff now and I’ve been able to pretty consistently dodge every single, or nearly every single aura read for the entire game.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192145#Comment_3192145
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question
Actually, I don’t. I think moderate size maps are fine, and flatness/single-story isn’t necessary. You can have interesting multi-story parts of the map even without making an entire map multi-story. And boring is a pretty subjective standard.
Unless you're going to tell me that the Nurse isn't able to make uniquely effective use of these perks, listing their counterplay against any other killer doesn't really change much?
Like, we all know that the Nurse is overwhelmingly the strongest killer, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. Could you elaborate?
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192131#Comment_3192131
The only maps Starstruck is an issue on are maps that need reworks for being too small anyways (as well as multiple other reasons).
Okay, but what about all the other Exposed perks...?
Being able to instadown through walls, sometimes with aura reading that prevents even attempted mindgames, is too much. The Nurse has the strongest basekit in the game, she doesn't need instadowns on top of it, that's just unbalanced.
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Make all her blinks special attacks. Having her able to use Exposed perks is a problem, and it's a problem when she does it on her first blink too.
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@NITRAS42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190630#Comment_3190630
Botany is a great perk, but the fact is that med-kits are so amazingly powerful that the downside to medkits overshadows the greatness of the perk.
Not really. If you wanna bring medkits and Botany, you either just cram as many charges into your medkit as possible or bring Streetwise to counteract the penalty. Either are good- multiple charges + 50% heal speed increase means bringing medkits is still very strong and efficient, and bringing Streetwise means you can apply that efficiency bonus to any item you end up using, as well as your teammate's.
Botany is fantastic, you just have to understand what kind of builds it goes into.
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I don't think he's in as bad a state as some people would have you believe, but he could use some work. His changes from before were well-needed, but a little more needs to be done to prop up the parts of his kit that weren't obnoxious and in need of changing.
He's a little slow and clunky, not in terms of his movement speed, but in terms of how he feels to play. Speeding up his ADS camera and saving him a little time in a few other areas would help him feel far, far more enjoyable to play. Still, though, he's fun.
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Why, though?
Genuinely, why is this a problem? A lot of the other Prime Gaming rewards are in-game currency, or are otherwise comparably minor benefits. I get being disappointed because DBD was one of the few games to have something above the average, but this is just what the Prime Gaming service is.
If you don't like it, just don't claim it, I don't really get why people are angry that their freebie wasn't up to snuff.
(That being said, understanding the context above, I do think it could stand to be a higher reward. It's just not, like, something to be angry over?)
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I've gotten a few of them recently, I'm not quite sure what's causing them or I'd have looked into filing a bug report.
Definitely annoying, hopefully it's fixed soon.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190633#Comment_3190633
I don't want to engage with what you're saying because it comes off so patronising. Like just say what you want to say without all the "Okay, even clearer this time:"s that make it sound like you're talking to a 5 year old.
My point was that technically free isn't really free. But you just responded like three times explaining how it IS technically free, when that wasn't even what I was trying to say.
Also for future reference, please do not address me as "man".
Noted, I can avoid that word.
I didn't mean to come off as patronising- I was more concerned that my point wasn't coming across. Calling my argument pedantic when it's extremely relevant to what I'm responding to makes it seem like I'm not doing a great job of conveying what I'm saying, so I was trying to condense it down to something more concise and clear.
To try again a little more neutrally - you say that technically free isn't really free, and certainly we can all agree on that statement, but I assume you're trying to apply it to this situation, right? To say that these bonuses aren't free? That's what I'm responding to, when I say that the thing you're paying for isn't these bonuses. It's not that I'm trying to make the argument that they're actually free (though them being meaningfully freebies is part of it), it's that they're not meant to be worth the money a Prime subscription costs, you aren't paying directly for them and so they don't need to meet a standard of quality that would justify that price.
That's why this offer isn't false advertising, or lying, or underperforming. Most of the Prime Gaming rewards are like this, they're designed to be nice bonuses for people who already have Prime for some other major reason.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190612#Comment_3190612
omg take the hint pls
...You could've just stopped responding, man. When you keep responding the hint is actually that you want to keep talking about it.
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It's kinda wild to me that Botany is this slept on, considering it's incredible.
Self-Care being so high up is also mind-boggling. Apparently it's a regional thing, and I'm so curious how players in those other regions use it...
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190590#Comment_3190590
I'm not engaging with the core of what you're saying because it's pedantic and overconcerned with semantics.
What? How is directly challenging the idea that "this specific reward is insulting because it's not worth paying money for" pedantic?
This isn't semantics. People are saying this reward isn't worth paying for, and so it's worth reminding them that they aren't paying for it. They're paying for something else and this is a bonus that comes with it.
Okay, even clearer this time: Nothing on Prime Gaming is individually worth the price of a Prime subscription. It's my opinion that even put together they aren't worth the price of a subscription, but the fact stands that Amazon is not selling you the promise of "You will get cool Dead By Daylight cosmetics for this price", they are selling you the promise of "You'll get kind of underwhelming rewards for a wide variety of games, and a couple free games per month too".
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190568#Comment_3190568
If something is technically free then it really isn't free. Like be real.
I really feel like you're not engaging with the core of what I'm saying here.
To make it more simple: You are not paying for just that. You are paying for a wide variety of things, and the group of things that contains the DBD reward tend to be minor things like in-game currency specifically because they are designed to be bonuses complementing the main thing being charged for.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190555#Comment_3190555
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/10ZE7KQB3XMP/image.png
Amazon themselves literally state that after your free trial, Prime Gaming is "Just $14.99 per month."
You perceiving the content as just "free added bonuses" gives them the perfect excuse to deliver low-quality rewards 🤦
But what you're not paying for is any given one of those bonuses, you're paying for all of them plus the free games. Also, I'm pretty sure it's just a regular Amazon Prime subscription, right? So that is what you're paying for- any specific reward in that group is effectively free because it is not the thing you're paying for. You're paying for Amazon Prime.
Again, most of them are like this. None of them are designed to be the main thing you buy the service for, they're designed to be freebies that come with the thing you actually paid for.
I'll repeat that I have a low opinion of this service, just to be utterly crystal clear that I'm not defending it in general. I just think this specific criticism is a weird one to apply to any Prime Gaming reward, it's so wildly off base to what it is that's happening there. Would you work up this much fervor for any of the other rewards...? The GTA Online one is also just currency, after all, is that a ripoff because buying Prime just for that currency for that specific game is massively overpriced?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190521#Comment_3190521
Y'all going out of your way to defend this is exactly why BHVR and Amazon feel like giving 400,000 BPs away as an "exclusive reward" is acceptable.
Not defending it, reminding people of the context.
Criticise it all you like, so long as you understand the context. Specifically, the context of what the other Prime Gaming rewards are.
If you haven't picked it up already, I don't personally think Prime Gaming is worth it! At least not on the merits of the rewards, because they're very rarely all that interesting.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190521#Comment_3190521
No matter how you spin it, 400k bp is really cheap.
I'm not spinning anything, I'm reminding people what the context of this reward is.
With all of the context that I just laid out in mind, I actually agree that 400k is a little low! But I'm not gonna be mad about it because that's such a weird, entitled thing to be mad over, it's an optional freebie in a group of generally kinda lame + underwhelming optional freebies for other games.