jajay119
jajay119
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783184#Comment_3783184
I think it's less about the 4ks and more about the 25 mins OP reported looking for people.
As a killer player, yes I like 4ks, but at that point in the match I'd be just fine if hatch spawned early just so the game can end at that point. It isn't always about winning, sometimes I make plans that involve a match not taking 20 minutes, or I just wanna grab a sandwich or smt.
I wouldn't have slugged the players for vengeance or anything, but I understand the frustration.
But, the 25 minute wait is intrinsically linked to the fact that that game has become unmanageable at 2v1. OP even said they had no issue finding them when they eventually started doing gens. Add to that, so many killers slug for the 4K (which whether we want to admit it or not is a massive issue). I went against at least 4 killers out of about 7 games the other day who spent some time hunting for me and the other survivor only to slug when they found us and that was with me getting the other player off the ground twice and trying to do a gen whilst the Bill went and hid in a corner when I was downed (in my final match of the day). Honestly, I don’t blame him. Everything is linked, it’s not one sided. So if killers are bored of the 25 minute hunt they need to accept the game needs to change and not entirely in their favour as many seem to want.
I think the reason 2v8 was so popular was because this didn’t happen.
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it was in 2v8 pretty repetitively so maybe it’s having a rest.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/423978/fix-for-slugging
I would say look at the reasons why killers slug rather than looking at slugging itself. I slug pretty often but it's not out of toxicity or because it's fun. It's because it's extremely common for the last 2 survivors to hide indefinitely hoping the other one dies so 1 can get hatch. I'm a killer and I'm going for as many kills as I can, to accomplish this I often need to slug them before they go into hiding and drag the game out even longer. When it's 2 left there is no telling how long it will be before the game ends. If that issue was solved there would probably be far less slugging.
and the last two survivors tend to hide because you can’t get anything done and you get slugged whilst the killer goes off the find the last survivor. Sorry but there’s no need to delve into anything - it’s perfectly obvious why killers do it. Because it’s easy and both things need addressing.
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No. it does the job it’s supposed to do and not every perk needs a change cause killers aren’t getting the downs they feel entitled to quick enough. Do you want Lethal or Corrupt to be changed? The rational for them is the same premise as for WoO.
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@joel84 said:
Don't get me wrong,
but if the developers want to change the meta further, they need to adapt this perk.
It's time for this perk to get a cooldown.
Change my mind
when is corrupt intervention or lethal pursuer finally getting changed? I mean if the only criteria is being used a lot they need to be on the plan first. Change my mind.
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To me, survivors hiding is like killers slugging and proxy camping for the 4k. Everyone is trying to ensure some sort of victory and it’s boring for the other side. But I do think they’re both intrinsically to blame for the development of this play style as they often come hand in hand. Both things need addressing and unfortunately it’s going to take changing how the game fundamentally works.
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I agree, especially as half the time things that come out of PTB will still clearly be changed again anyway.
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Here to suggest once again that map offering should be changed to ensure you do not go to a realm.
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There are 2 or three hatches and at least they got you off. I had someone jump into one right in front of me the other day.
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I can see where you’re coming from, but in my opinion the correct way to process the situation is to make slugging for the 4K not an option - what that looks like in terms of balance is up for debate. But simply making it so killers get an easier win and survivors get even less of a chance is not the way forward to me.
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@Deathstroke said:
What I just read… Survivors having opportunity give last one chance to hatch is one of the only situations when hook suiciding is 100% justified.
Hatch is game mechanic to give last survivor chance to escape and something to play for in already lost game. Killer still however often has the better chance to find it anyway and get the 4K.
I find this whole premise of an ‘already lost game’ a bit of an odd one because the survivor role is to survive. To me, the game isn’t lost until you’ve been sacrificed . If I can evade the killer and find the hatch or get the doors open it’s still a personal victory. Sure, it would be a success too if you get out with some team mates, but that to me is a group victory. The two are not mutually exclusive. This whole ‘already lost match’ and ‘it’s a pity exit, you don’t even gain MMR’ excuses I see bandied around are flimsy attempts to negate the hatch that don’t have any true basis in the solo survivor experience.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774538#Comment_3774538
Look, I'm a killer player and I think there's some odd stances on this entire thing.
If you have a survivor throwing to try and save the last one, you're winning on gens and you have an equal, if not BETTER chance (depending on your killer) of finding hatch first and forcing a gate game. I win those situations more than lose them and this whole debate confuses me.
Exactly, that’s why I cannot understand the OP mentality. It’s almost always going to go in the favour of the killer anyway and on the few occasions it doesn’t just take it on the chin and move on. A 4K imo should be the product of a very well played match by a killer - not something we just hand out by forcing the last survivor into a corner who must await the inevitable. The more survivors a game loses the more killer favoured the match becomes. But there still needs to be something for that last survivor to try and do to survive. The hatch and the doors provide that, albeit it at very slim odds, but it’s still a very big challenge for the survivor to get out at this point. Killers should still have some sort of challenge too at this point… especially as you’ve already technically won anyway.
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The attitude of the OP in this thread, in my opinion, is honestly one the major things wrong with the game.
So many killers seem to think they're entitled to a 4K and some also seem to resent having to put any effort into it.
If the third survivor is suiciding on the hook, then you're getting your 3K. But complaints still come because you're not GUARANTEED the 4K? Even though the vast majority of matches I play I don't even bother looking for the hatch anymore as killers tend to find it within the first 10-20 seconds of it spawning. Unless it pops open right by you, or you're fortunate enough to find it in chase you aren't getting out using it. Then you have even less chance of getting out via the doors unless you can majorly avoid the killer which, if so, you deserve the escape. That scenario too is very uncommon.
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The funny thing is - we are starting to see the creation of a new cycle, just like ones that plague the original version of the game.
I agree, people are not recusing from the hook, and people aren't healing which is annoying, but there is a reason. Is it a coincidence that this has happened at the same time as killers getting confident with the hook spawns, keeping track of who they have hooked and racing across the map to find the person who was hooked, down them again as well as those trying to heal? I don't think so.
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Speaking as a survivor main who works mainly in SoloQ - The only think I feel still needs to be done to achieve parity with SWFs is a 'The killer is near me' and 'I'll go for the save' Icon or emote. This would mean not everyone has to guess who is going to rescue. The amount of times I've stayed on my gen, as the only person on one, assuming someone else will go for the save, only to come off my gen after a while, cross half the map to them see someone be taken off hook is really annoying.
The mobile version of the game included this some time back. BHVR borrowed the visual terror radius from the mobile version, so I'm hoping this is something that follows. You can see it in action from about 0.16 below.
https://youtu.be/t-C149zKCmk?si=WRyctiUtup3Z0yhT -
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771667#Comment_3771667
what made it unfun for survivors and what’s your plan to address that mechanic in other areas of the game? Barring slugging in hook deadzones I mean.
All hooks move periodically throughout the match, or the hooks take on the role they’ve gained in the 2v8 mode where killers send a survivor to the hook rather than having to physically carry them there. That way killers can’t depend on the same scourge hook and survivors cannot abuse dead zones. Everyone benefits.
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in my very limited experience as killed a high amount of scratch marks can also be quite misleading. So I don’t think this is the buff people think it is in that regard.
However, one thing I will say is that version of Gas Heaven he played on was way to light and had no shadows etc. I don’t think that should be affected by a filter.
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Yup, I had an AHR map earlier where the side of the wall was missing and you could get out of the map.
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I’m sad to see things like tunelling and slugging have crept their way back into the game so quickly. Although I’m not surprised - it does highlight it as the preferred way to play for killers regardless of how you change the game though.
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I think it’s going to be perceived as more killer sided now as many killers have learned to team up and old habits have crept back in.
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you can also have 4 people on hook and two people in chase… so yeah.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769681#Comment_3769681
God pallets are any pallet that is so safe that they MUST be broken in order to continue once its tossed down. Theyre completely safe. Many pallets can be left alone and played around.
Ok so my terminology was incorrect, I accept that but… break the pallet if it’s so troublesome.
The the whole point of a pallet in this game is to provide a break in chase and even discourage killers to continue on, but rather go and kick gens or chase someone else - even though the premise seems to be lost on BHVR these days.Most pallets are absolute trash now. They’re so unsafe that the killer is round the other side downing you before the animation is even finished. I don’t see why we’ve gone so far in the other direction. It’s really disheartening that people want yet more of this action which imo should never have happened in the first place.
Reduce the total amount of pallets on a map. Fine, but make the ones that are there useful, please.
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There is no such thing as a god pallet. Break it and it’s gone. The vault is also right next to a door which is a loop easily broken, predicted and countered by most killers.
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whilst they are quite clear it’s only a temporary event, I think they should reconsider it
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769322#Comment_3769322
I wish I could play it more.
Unfortunately the wait times make it unplayable.
So it doesn't work as 2v8.
I literally just gave suggestions two posts in a row to solve the issues you've just said.
If survivors weren't sitting ducks when faced with two killers at once, all of your issues would be moot.
Chase activates with both killers at once = survivors get extra powers. Extra speed, no scratchmarks, endurance, take your pick. Pincer movements are no longer a guaranteed down and instead become a calculated risk trade off.
And I explained why I don’t think your solutions were suitable.
im sorry the waits are so long for you, but as I survivor main I definitely wouldn’t say survivors are ‘powerless’. I’ve been having a lot of fun, way more than in the main game, with it and that accounts for the fact I don’t really escape a lot too. Sometimes I have and a few times I’ve got the hatch too which has been really rewarding. More often than not though I’ve still been sacrificed… but it’s fun and that’s what the main mode is lacking imo. -
If you don’t do it, then you shouldn’t need to worry about it. Yet you made a whole thread about it?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769312#Comment_3769312
Of course it would. Balance is not determined by player numbers.
Why do you think they removed hooks?
Why do you think survivors need to repair 8 gens?
You MAKE 2v6 work by changing the mechanics to favour survivors.
Have them repair 6/10 gens at 60s each.
Give them extra tools to deal with double-killer chases. (This alone would make playing survivor more appealing because it would be something new for survivors that isn't simply a faster way to die)
Stop revealing survivor auras every 2 seconds so that hiding still has its place.
Personally, and with the experience I have of the mode, I feel there is no way you can change the mechanics without severely hindering the killers which again would be unpalatable.
The current play style in 2v8 has quickly become ‘team up and knock down’ . Killers are tag teaming survivors to get quick downs in quick succession. It’s become a common site to have 3-4 people on hook at the same time multiple times per match now. They then make a habit of going across the map to the hooks to repeat this on rescuers and repeat the cycle. The only reason this isn’t being called out for camping or tunnelling is because there are so many people at the moment it’s manageable to cope with it. It also feeds into the quick play style BHVR have clearly tried to do for.
If you reduce the amount of people and it won’t be. You end up with the equivalent of slugging 3 people at 4 gens in the main game which is not something I want to see repeated.
The only way to combat this would be to give survivors more health states to discourage the tendency to team up for a quick one-two hit which would not be well received. I also think having less aura reading wouldn’t be well received as there would be too many people to keep track of still. Let’s be honest they want the same set up as now, with less people to get kills quicker. I understand it but it’s not balanced.
With all due respect you admit yourself to not having played the mode much. I’ve played it exclusively since it launched and can see how it is right now. -
I’ve said this in other threads, but I’m going to say it as many times as I can so BHVR sees it - the innate changes to the game with this mode have massively improved it’s health:
hooks becoming cages have all but eradicated camping because they move.Killers not needing to carry you and fear toxicity from flash lights means they don’t slug.
The cage moving if the killer is close to it for too long reduces the ability to camp apart from Billy who can get across the map so quickly.Killers generally hook straight away because it’s more beneficial and so this reduces the long winded gameplay of slugging for the 4k has plagued the main game. But also if you’re getting an unfortunate game and getting hooked quickly it tends to be quick in and out which means I don’t mind it as much.
The cages’ design mean you cannot suicide on the hook anymore which has been a massive improvement - however like I said above the matches go so quickly at times people aren’t feeling the need to DC as much.
If they can bring these changes into 1v4 I think it will be the breath of fresh air the game needs.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769297#Comment_3769297
Absolutely nothing to do with dominating. You can adjust the balance to suit the numbers as they have done here by removing hooks and increasing gen numbers/decreasing gen times.
It shouldn't be 2v8 because there's simply not enough people playing survivor.
Reduce the number of survivors, but adjust balanceto account for it; give survivors extra perk effects, such as bonus chase skills that activate when chased by both killers at once. That will make playing survivor more appealing because you'll get a leg up when in a 'pincer' chase that currently has little chance of escape.
I would love to play killer in this mode, but I'm not waiting 20 minutes for a 4 minute game. Particularly when my only viable option is Wraith.
2v6 wouldn’t be feasible against two killers - I’ve played the mode pretty extensively and any killers who have committed to playing it are actually very strong.
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👎
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@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768029#Comment_3768029
Translation killers having no chance to apply pressure or slowdown the game is apparently good for the game but demand second chance and anti tunnel
translation: I don’t want to think about anything. As a killer and want the game to play itself.
Two can play at that game.
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because you should be paying attention. Just like survivors should. You can see where your traps are - they can’t. If you’re waking into them then that’s on you, sorry.
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I’m really enjoying it. Solo Q player 99% of the time.
The hook changes have massively improved it for for me - no slugging, no camping, no sweating and very little tunnelling. No self sacrificing on first hook.
killers who have committed to the mode are actually quite strong but because the games can go so quickly youre sacrificed and into another match quicker which is more evocative of F13 or Texas Chainsaw, which is something I always felt they did better than DBD, it’s not a big deal.
The classes load outs have gotten rid of the useless perks and forced me into using other play styles. It’s also been designed to work in a much more balanced way for the perks that’s are there.
I can count on one hand the amount of people who have disconnected from matches too compared to it being virtually one every match in normal mode.
Perhaps some of these ideas could be translated back to the main mode to speed it up, but personally, I’m dreading going back to the main mode as it’s going to seem so slow and boring by comparison. -
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768688#Comment_3768688
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768739#Comment_3768739
I don’t see survivors playing 2v5 or 2v6 very long. They’re struggling with 2v8.
funny how it was mainly killers calling for a 2v8 because they thought it would be an absolute domination mode - now it’s not they’re calling for 2v6/5. It’s just proof some people arent able to be pleased.
I think the mode is really fun and no one is playing it sweaty which is what the game has desperately needed. I’m sad it’s only timed cause going back to the slowness of 1v4 is going to be a killer.
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lights out was definitely one of the most unpopular modes they’ve done - glad you enjoyed it but the feedback was overwhelmingly negative.
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speaking as someone who mains survivor - I don’t miss the hooks at all. I don’t ever want them back.
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trappers just need to be strategic in where they place their traps - the game can descend into chaos as more survivors get killed and this is where the trapper excels. People panic and forget he’s around and get caught out - I saw it a lot yesterday.
I don’t think survivors need a second endurance state and that’s coming from a survivor main.
The mode is different and it’s quicker yes but honestly I think matches not being dragged on for ages is really what’s making this mode fun to play. It’s quick and Chaotic which is what I think it was meant to be and very evocative of the earlier days of the game.
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@Dreamnomad said:
Demogorgon will need something to make it so survivors can't break its portals. With that many survivors, there is no way you'll keep them intact.
I don't think Plague should ever be an option in 2v8.
I think just allowing your other killer to see when survivors are cleansing the portal and allowing them to benefit from the oblivious status effect would be enough.
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honestly, some things definitely need to be taken back into the main game. The combination of the hooks and the cage of atonement has solved SO many problems in one swoop:
-no more suiciding on first hook-it moves if the killer stays near it too long eradicating the ability to camp
-there’s no incentive to have to carry a survivor to a hook so has reduced slugging MASSIVELY.
I’ve been advocating for this change to hooks for years now and it’s nice to see it in action as it really works.
-Basekit self care on death hook has also been a pleasant surprise and a nice alternative to not being able to heal out of the dying state or get flashlight saves .
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I’ve got no qualm with killers being able to see if they’re going against a team in the lobby - it still won’t show you if they’re a ‘SWF’ but if you don’t want to take the chance then fair enough.
However, I do think it should be counter balanced by survivors being able to see which killer they’re going against.
Also, I’ve said this for a long time but mao offerings should be reworked so it guarantees you do not go to that specific realm. I’d burn every swamp offering I have if it meant I can be guaranteed NOT to go there.
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So, it was for the 8v2 in the end clearly. Not so much a ‘tin hat’ situation in the end.
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@brokedownpalace said:
absolutely NO to the Dredge or Legion. What a ######### miserable experience that would be.
I second that - Same with Plague. Put them all out to pasture for this mode.
im quite enjoying the mode and honestly think I’ll struggle to go back to 1v4 - it’s been a very needed breath of fresh air for the game and made it a bit lighter and enjoyable again. The last thing we need is miserable killers mucking it all up. -
Lovely evidence as to why slugging needs to be reviewed. It’s just a toxic behaviour at this point.
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@Peanits said:
It is not just you. A lot of people are excited to play Killer with a friend for the first time so there is a disproportionately high number of Killers are not enough Survivors to fill each of their lobbies. We've greatly increased the incentive for player Survivor in the meantime to help balance out the queue a little bit, but it's safe to say that Killer queue times will remain longer in 2v8 for at least a little while.
I’m loving the mode - I hope it gets made a full time alternative mode.
Like the mode, hating going against a Huntress every bloody match.
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the trappers I’m going against all seem to be doing fine.
The mode has had 400% bonus for the survivor side all day. Says a lot.
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My issue with WA is that it’s overstacked. It makes you drop your item , gives you the oblivious status effect when you pick it back up which imo is enough. But it also reveals not only your location but anyone around you too.
If that were a survivor perk killers abound would be moaning it does too much.
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I’ve found the change has massively impacted the survivor experience in a positive way. It was comparable in annoyance and oppressiveness to OG Eruption so I’m glad it’s been changed. It was far too strong for what it was.
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You’re probably not going to like this comment, but I’ve been on these forums for about two years now and it’s always been pretty consistently killer sided which I think is what can cause a bit of animosity on sides sadly.
You can say I’m feeding into the ‘us vs them ‘ mentality if you want, that’s fine, but it’s just an observation.
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Rudjohns said everything I need to. This is my biggest downside. I say it every time the idea is suggested.
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it’s been acknowledged as a bug and will be fixed in the next hotfix (way quicker than other bugged elements have been as many have pointed out). It doesn’t really matter what causes it.