fogdonkey
fogdonkey
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2865993#Comment_2865993
All other screenshots on the site are in-game so these are likely in-game as well. Granted, they're likely on the highest settings, but they are in-game.
I am pretty sure they are rendered outside the game, or if in game then they use some custom private settings that are not available for end users.
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I don't want to ruin the party, but I am pretty sure it will not look this good in the game (even on ultra settings).
These are just special renders, not screenshots from the game.
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LOL... If you don't tunnel you won't even notice BT... If you will tunnel because of this, it will totally backfire on you.
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I know that timing wasn't so strict many years ago and then for some reason it was changed. I don't like this strict timing and whatever they wanted to fix with that change they overdid it and created a new problem.
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Why the hell did you even create this forum thread if you don't want to listen or understand.
Everyone says: don't destroy totems because of COH or Pentimento. Just remember where the totems are, maybe the killer doesn't even have NoED.
You: But I want and will do totems.
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I think it is crazy that the timing is so important. The pallet save should work already when the killer is picking up and holding the survivor.
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5.6.1 was a week ago. Is there something today?
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@Mandy said:
I appreciate the frustration around the report system, it is the same for all platforms as well unfortunately as video evidence is required for most reports and those need to be sent with a Support ticket.
Playstation and Xbox as well as PC do have these recording features built in but again, it's not the most intuitive thing to use.
How about this:
1. I create an in-game report
2. BHVR sends me an automated email about my report
3. I can reply with a video file in the attachment or with a link to YouTube/twitch
This way it would not be needed to go through that form on the BHVR webpage and copy over various steam or game IDs.
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What about the counter strike forums? Those are even worse...
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Because they don't know how to fix it. Therefore they chose the "it is not a bug, it is a feature" route.
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Perks which reward killers for hooking or downing.
Pop, scourge hook, surge, etc
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857609#Comment_2857609
Your video incorrectly assumes the grind only started recently. In fact people have complained about grind in DbD at least as far back as 2019 if not earlier. So it’s not even obvious that reducing the total number of perks to 1/3 would “reduce the grind to acceptable levels”, it could easily be that the grind is still unacceptable at that level and they’ll have wasted time on that short term “fix” for nothing.
My video disproves the dev's statements:
- exponential grind growth (video: it is just quadratic)
- even without tiers we would reach the current levels of grind very quickly (video: we would reach it in five years)
- it is difficult to remove tiers (video: it should not be)
Yes, maybe even 1/3 grind is too much, but it is a lot better than what we have currently. They should just quickly implement this band aid fix of removing perk tiers and then they can think and work on their awesome rework for a year.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857616#Comment_2857616
They very much implied that it is not a fast or easy change. "if we're gonna spend a bunch of time on the solution, we'd rather spend that time on a permanent solution" definitely implies such is the case anyways, and without access to the source code there is no real way to prove whether that's the case or not, so I really have no choice accept to take the devs at face value.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857640#Comment_2857640
That could be nice as a bit of quick and dirty temporary fix for sure and unlike removing perk tiers is almost certainly very little work (just turn on blood hunt). Definately not the best permanant solution though as it dramatically increases item/addon/offering availability so you'll see more strong stuff like MD rings, alch rings, syringes, styptics, map offerings and the likes.
You can blindly accept whatever they tell you. I prefer to have some critical thinking and decide on my own what makes or what doesn't make sense.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857348#Comment_2857348
Once again, another person assuming that it is easier to remove perk tiers as a band aid fix. The devs have publically stated, removing perk tiers is not an easy fix. It would not be a small amount of work to do. If you want a band aid, ask them to inflate bloodpoints earnings. Removing perk tiers is neither a good temporary solution NOR a good permanent one.
They said removing perk tiers is not as simple as selecting them and hitting the delete button. But they didn't say that it is actually difficult.
Simple band-aid fix:
Keep perk tiers internally. Change bloodweb code so that it offers you to buy the tier3 perk immediately (skip tier1 and tier2). Run a query to update the player database so that all the owned perks are on tier3. Fixed!
Now everyone is happy and devs have 3 years to come up with their great long-term solution.
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We would be back at the current bad state in 5 years and we would have ~2-3 years with reasonable grind.
They can create a better fix during these 3 years. Or maybe the game won't even exist in 3 years. Or maybe I will not even play this game anymore so I won't care.
Btw: here is my analysis of the same topic:
https://youtu.be/WWACfO1boZ8 -
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2854843#Comment_2854843
Hopefully not THAT long! They’ve been working on it a few months already, so maybe they’re aiming for a summer announcement? It would be a nice 6th Anniversary piece.
Amazing that you are so optimistic (or naive) after all their vague statements and Soon™ promises.
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@Marc_123 said:
We will see what their solution is they are working on for so long now and can´t talk about.
They could do simple things like lower the bloodweb prices or increase BP earned in matches - but they don´t.
I guess they just don´t want to reduce it.
They can't talk about it, because they are not actually working on it, so they are not sure when is it going to be done. Or maybe they work on it only as a low priority side project which gets postponed by other stuff. If someone is actively working on it then they could make an announcement that it will be done by XY release.
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@Tsulan said:
Your thread just made me wanna open my own thread about DH.
With this many posts I wonder how is it possible you don't have a thread about dead hard.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2852332#Comment_2852332
- Your estimate of the time it takes for the grind to be a problem is incorrectly assuming that it needs to reach the same total number of perks we currently have. But in reality grind has been a problem for a long time already so it would only need to reach the point at which it initially became a problem which was probably about 3 or 4 years ago, maybe even earlier. So that 10 year estimate is too large, it’s probably closer to an additional 3, maybe even sooner. (It could even hypothetically still be perceived a problem immediately at only one perk per character depending on how tolerant someone is of grinding out 50 perks in the web every new chapter.)
- Your estimate of 1 dev taking four weeks is probably an underestimate because you’re ignoring a lot of testing that would need to take place and how interconnected a lot of systems are to the perks. It’s not a small project.
- Finally they’re already working on an alternative larger revamp of the system now that presumably makes the reason for removing perk tiers as a sole solution moot. Why spend months removing perk tiers when they can just finish the bloodweb revamp already in the works and have a better, longer term solution that deals with the issue in a hopefully more elegant way? Not to mention they never said the perk tiers aren’t being looked at as part of the larger revamp.
I guess you did not watch my video, or if yes, then you didn't understand it.
- My grind estimate/formula takes into account that there are more perks as new killers are added. That's causing the quadratic grind increase.
- I am nowhere saying anything about 10 years. I am saying that we would be back at the same levels of grind after 5 years.
- time to fix: it depends how they fix it. Internally they could still have 3 tiers, but in the bloodweb players would immediately buy it on tier 3. It doesn't need that much testing, devs are not altering any game mechanics.
- already working on it, is something similar to Soon™. Maybe it just means that they have a rough idea, or they already spent 2 hours working on it, but now they need to work on the next DLC. They did not provide any time estimate, so it can be easily "next year". And as I mentioned removing perk tiers is definitely a lot simpler than coming up with some total rework. And if they remove perk tiers they will have 2-3 years to come up with their great awesome rework before the grind reaches again the current unbearable level
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Forced Penance does a smiliar thing, afflicting Survivors who take a Protection Hit with the Broken Status Effect for 80 seconds or so.
You could buff Sloppy Butcher by increasing it's effect but giving it the same effect as another Perk isn't a good idea
Why is it a problem? There are many perks which have similar effects, just activate differently.
Examples: perks which speed up healing, speed up gen repair, cause gen regression, block gens, etc.
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Your team has to deal with it. Body block the killer, take hits so that you can hide and heal up. After that you need to play very stealthy if you are dead on hook.
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Here is my perk tier removal analysis video:
https://youtu.be/WWACfO1boZ8@R1ch4rd_N1x0n said:
Without perk Tiers, getting perks you want would be far too easy. I don't know why everyone thinks they should go.
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2848940#Comment_2848940
Because that's the point?
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2851662#Comment_2851662
Where are you getting this “10 years” thing from?
And why do you think it wouldn’t take a ton of development time to go through 180 perks individually and remove the lower tier ones? That’s not a simple change.
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And if somebody wants to swear, they can. So chat filter does not prevent it.
I received messages like this:
4uk you
as hol
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2850925#Comment_2850925
Soon™ as usual huh
Possibly they haven't even started working on it, they just have a rough idea how to reduce the grind... Which means it is probably not coming for another year.
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@Kurri said:
What's tunneling meta?
Elon Musk's and Mark Zuckerberg's new joint venture.
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No, it does not bring immediate profit.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2850517#Comment_2850517
We did not. In fact, we've said the exact opposite: We do not consider it a fix to the grind in the slightest, it's an improvement to grade rewards, nothing else.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2850459#Comment_2850459
I can also confirm that we don't see it as something that encourages people to play more. A certain amount of grinding, sure, it can give you a goal to work towards and keep you interested. But if it becomes too much, then the goal feels unattainable and you lose interest in trying to achieve it.
To the original topic: It's too early to share details now, but we have a massive grind reduction in the works. I'm looking forward to the day we're finally able to share it with everyone.
Everyone is looking forward to this day! We have been looking forward to it for months, probably years! We all know it is here Soon™!
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They are not fixing it on purpose.
They use this insane grind to lure people to play during "double-bloodpoint" events, to make people to log in and use Bloodpoints promo codes, to make people play for rank rewards. Also if they ever add some sort of role incentives/rewards they will pay for it probably with Bloodpoints.
If the grind gets lower, Bloodpoints will become less valuable and they can't use the above mentioned "techniques".
But of course IMO they are destroying the player base with this, new players will be less likely to stay with such huge grind in the game.
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@Lucent said:
Since the tv's can be disabled there should be no cooldown on them.
Could spam teleport next to hook and cause max condemnation while unhooking. But the cooldown could be shorter.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think it's likely they are going to make Prestieging have a blood point bonus. When asked about reducing the grinds they said "(cough cough) new prestige system" "I think i have bloodpoints stuck in my throat". They've also said they will not remove perk tiers, as it is not a long term solution, so hopefully there's going to be something else as well.
The "removing perk tiers is not a long term solution" is BS. It would take around 5 years to reach the current levels of grind (from the perspective of a new player).
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That's why I love Discordance.
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Sure, if we remove the strict timing requirements for flashlight saves and pallet saves.
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My solution to this:
@fogdonkey said:
Currently each survivor has to be hooked 3 times (or go through 3 hook stages) to be sacrificed. So it is relatively easy to tunnel a single survivor out or camp them to death (Bubba).
My suggestion:
Each survivor has to be hooked only 2 times to be sacrificed (or go through 2 hook stages), BUT there are 4 hook stages shared between survivors. It means that the first 4 hooks or hook stages will be subtracted from this shared hook count, not from the personal one.
How does this solve tunneling and camping? Tunneling a single survivor would mean that they need to be hooked 6 times! Also camping would take a long 6 hook stages!
Possible balancing options: Limit how many hook stages can a single survivor use from this shared count. E.g. each survivor can use at most only 2 out of the 4, which would mean that some survivors would have 4 hook stages instead of the current 3.
Possible issues: Survivors killing themselves on hook could hurt the team more, but they already hurt, so the situation is not getting much worse. Possibly kobe attempts should be disbaled after 1 hook stage, struggling should happen only at the last hook stage. In the meantime they would just hang.
Let me know what you think. But keep the discussion on point: how to improve this system, what are some other possible issues and how to fix them, etc. I want constructive feedback. I don't care about your personal issues with some tbagging survivors or how to nerf dead hard, etc. Open a separate forum thread for those.
It would give enough time even for soloq to finish all gens. So Bubbas would become bored quite quickly of this facecamp strategy.
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I don't care about clickers, but the scroll wheel fast clicking should be disabled.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2847390#Comment_2847390
Well people are buying this skins, no matter what. I saw so much Sadakos with her store skin. She is new killer and people will level her. But so many people already bought her skin too.
For sure there are players who buy even then. But my example: I play only 2 survivors (Meg and Kate). Meg has all possible perks, Kate almost all. Why would I buy some skin for a different survivor? I don't want to spend time leveling up other survivors to get the builds I want.
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@El_Gingero said:
I’m 100% confident that the grind is the major thing driving away new players. It’s just common sense. Nobody wants to spend a bunch of money only to sit there and grind for potentially hundreds of hours, whilst learning such a punishing game, whilst using weak, boring builds.
It’s weird because BHVRs business model is to rely on new chapters to being in new players, yet they’re met with this nonsense and understandably leave shortly thereafter.
Also probably a lot of income comes from selling skins. But why would I buy a skin for a character that I never play because I don't have the perks I want on it.
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Yeah, it is crazy and looks extremely stupid. I think it is caused by that the survivor body is not the same as the hitbox. The survivor body is leaning forward, way ahead of the actual hitbox. When they are rotating they rotate around the hitbox which makes the front of the body move/spin extremely fast.
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Can confirm it, it is definitely a bug. When other survivors get injured they DC probably because of a crash.
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So probably the killer was chasing one survivor while the other three worked peacefully on gens. Probably the killer has tunnel vision.
Also... If in a balanced game two survivors should escape, it means that 2-3 survivors should be alive when the last gen is finished.
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I have seen it multiple times and it still scares me... I need to take my headphones off while in the menu :D without sound it is a bit less scary
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Still nothing about reducing the grind in the game...
Features Added a new Killer - The Onryō Perks - Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage, Call of Brine, Merciless Storm Added a new Survivor - Yoichi Asakawa Perks - Parental Guidance, Empathic Connection, Boon: Dark Theory The Nurse is back in rotation after a bug fix Forum and support links now redirect based on your selected… -
@evancalgary said:
just de ranked 4 games in a row after almost getting red ranks on survivor for the first time lost cause of bad teammates and getting facecamped i cant stand this game anymore the devs wont respond to my support ticket to fix my content after 30+ days killer is unplayable cause of boon COH and that's why I'm playing survivor but cause COH exists i just get facecamped every 2nd game 3rd max idk what to do cause if I leave I will be 2 far behind on the meta to come back so idk what to do any suggestions on what to do with my free time now will be helpful i don't really play anything else so give your game ideas for me to play here i guess sorry for the rant i hope you guys at least have a little fun with the ring chapter cause I sure wont be unless multiple things are addressed thanks for reading my rant and i hope to see your game sugestions
dont care
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~3.5 million + a few 100k saved in archive challenges.
I haven't played since the last rank reset in February. I turned the game on only to activate some Bloodpoint codes.
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@SuzuKR said:
How many more times do I have to post this explanation from Peanits of BHVR until people understand the hitboxes are perfectly fine?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N8NAGEGQXJX3/screenshot-20200930-232331.jpg
Do you have a link to the page?
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@Adjatha said:
Part of the problem is that most of the "Good design" perks you listed are just BAD perks. They provide very, very little to the killer. I agree that there should be more 'safety net' perks, but they actually need to have a potent effect.
Tinkerer and Deadlock are great. They point you to the most at-risk gen or slow down gen progress. Stuff like Bitter Murmur or Beast of Prey are AWFUL. Their effects should be something like 4x as long on the aura reading of Bitter Murmur or making Beast skip you past from Bloodlust 1 and right into 2 or 3.
Perks that reward you for doing well are perceived by the Dev Team as "earned," so they feel more justified in giving them better effects. Second Chance perks are very common among Survivors, but take a look at the primary killer second chance: No One Escapes Death. It's the ultimate "well you lost the match, but you still have a chance to get something going, assuming the survivors didn't destroy/buff all your totems and you can find/hit the survivors, AND they don't find your NOED before you get any use out of it."
Yes, most of the perks listed under good design are weak, but they are not weak because of the design. They could be easily buffed to make them more viable.
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@FFirebrandd said:
Ok... so in theory I agree with you. Dead by daylight is a very snowbally game and it would be better if it wasn't.
In practice there's some problems.
- Player choice is important. Some people very much enjoy that high risk high reward gameplay that several killer perks encourage. Making that sort of build/playstyle not possible wouldn't be a good thing. What the Devs do need to do is do better at enabling builds that do start kicking in once the Killer is on the back foot.
- Loss aversion is a thing. We can't just go around reworking a bunch of perks that already exist just because they snowball. That's a very good way to royally piss off your players that liked those perks for what they were.
- Survivors arguably hate perks that activate when the killer is losing the most. By far the best killer perk like that in the game bar none is NOED. Killer in a bad spot because all gens are done; here's a massive power boost. I don't think I need to explain that NOED is probably the most debated perk on this forum. I constantly see people wanting to "fix" it by making it so it gives you X insta downs equal to the number of hooks you got during the trial, which completely circumvents the whole purpose of the perk as it is.
- Most perks that activate when the Killer is losing are bad. Bitter Murmur isn't terrible but there's a lot of better info perks. Coup De Grace is incredibly niche and only works on a handful of killers. Same with Play With Your Food. Fire Up is just pathetic. Same with Claustrophobia. Beast of Prey is in the running for worst killer perk in the game. Rancor is just kinda meh.
- Also... Make Your Choice is 100% a snowballing perk. Just wanna throw that out there.
Thanks for the response, you are raising interesting points.
1. Good point, risk reward perks could make the game more interesting. However IMO still we need to make sure that it can't get too overpowered and boost the killer too much. Also probably since it is a risk-reward, by default it should work against the killer and help only when some conditions are met.
2. Reworking the perks would not mean that they feel weaker. Since they would help more when you actually need it, they would feel more powerful IMO. Quick Pop idea: "You start with 3 tokens. Each finished gen gives you one token. Kicking a gen consumes a token and regresses gen by 25%."
3. I mentioned Noed in the video. I think the problem with it is that it is weak against 4 survivors but strong against 2. But yeah... It is a long discussion.
4. I agree, many perks that I listed as good design are quite weak. It is because listed them not based on strength, but based on the idea behind them. I am sure that there would be ways to buff them and make them viable.
5. Possible, maybe I was wrong about that perk.
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@dugman said:
I agree with the TLDR - “win more” perks are as a rule of thumb a bad idea, the better perks are ones that give more consistent benefits when the player is losing to help them catch up.
A good example on the killer side is Dying Light, since out of the gate it gives the survivors a bonus and gives the killer nothing at all. It takes a few hooks before the perk actually gives the killer enough of a boost to make up for that initial penalty. Eventually if the killer does well it can lock in the victory by giving the survivors a sizable penalty, but it does worse than nothing and actually hurts the killer if they’re losing. Ideally that perk should be tweaked to either remove the bonus the Obsession gets or to give the killer a base 5% to 10% gen slowdown right out of the gate at the start of the match to offset that Obsession’s bonus. That way the perk at least is at least not hurting the killer at the start and can help if they’re behind a bit but not getting stomped.
Wow, this dying light is indeed a weird killer perk. It is actually working against the killer until the killer manages to get some hooks. It has this "flipped over bowl" shape.
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@[Deleted User] said:
This is incredibly insightful, and I totally agree o_o
But there's such a wide variance in skill between a starter and one at high end.
Longwinded Example: For the longest time I was in the habit of letting all survivors go. I'd get 2 hook states on everyone and then let them finish. As a result, my MMR believed I was terrible and I'd get baby survivors all the time. Since the reset this month, I've started just killing everyone and let the MMR put me up against who it thinks I am suited for. The difference is like night and day. Baby survivors, I can get 4-8 hooks in the same time as 1-2 gens. Skilled Survivors get 2-3 gens done by the time I have 1-2 hooks. I'm certain there's a similar difference between new and skilled killers too (although I maintain that certain killers, regardless of perks, simply cannot meet the same skill ceiling as survivors based on the nature of their power/speed)
Which is why I feel like BHVR's 'statistics' on kill rates is ridiculous to use as a measure of how healthy a killer is, but I'm getting off topic. Any changes implemented to help with the in-game curve, as you've laid out, would be incredibly difficult to balance between low and high skill gameplay. Given how simple DBD is at its core, new additions or adjustments can wildly shake up the core gameplay loop and make certain abilities or strategies completely obsolete. This is why I feel like most new perks (both killer and survivor) play it incredibly safe these days to not shake things up too much.
Thanks for the reply.
Let's look at Pop goes the weasel as an example, I said that it has a bad design. In your example if you play against baby survivors Pop will activate many times. But against babys you could win easily even without perks, you don't even need the help from Pop. However when you play against good survivors you maybe get only 3 hooks before all gens are done, so Pop would activate only 3 times. In this case you would need more help from Pop, but you get help only 3 times.
Perks based on my idea would give you help when you actually need the help. And it would not give help you if you don't need it (so that you can't too easily destroy the survivors).
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2816520#Comment_2816520
Killer needs some sort of bloodlust effect for non-chase that goes away when they enter chase.
I do agree that the killer's perks are generally just "win more" perks, I wouldn't agree that those survivor perks like DS/BT/etc. are healthy though as they're just as powerful if not more so when you're winning. BT can make a killer lose the pressure they have from hooking someone and maintain that disadvantage for longer due to the extra hit + speed boost. Decisive Strike can extend chases and give you a free escape during the EGC. Dead Hard currently is not healthy as when executed properly it gives you an extra health state every 40 seconds you're not in chase, so if you break chase (and thus "win" that chase) you get back your dead hard, so you can "win more".
BT and DS help the survivors when they are at a risk of being tunneled out, which is a big hit on them if the killer manages to tunnel out a person. So I think BT and DS are reasonable. (Yes, I agree about BT for protection hits or DS during EGC is questionable, arguments on both side can be valid. I don't want to go into the details of this here.)
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2816539#Comment_2816539
Dead Hard needs to be reworked into something just entirely different.
Dead hard also follows the principles from the video: the survivors can use it when they are in a bad situation: injured and in a chase.
The problem is that Dead hard can offer too much help to the survivors, it can extend the chase by too much when used well.