dbdthegame
dbdthegame
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This is why it's so hard for both sides to take each other seriously in this game. Survivors start off by being reasonable (nerf alch ring, c33 and vial) and move on to becoming overzealous (flicks are an exploit, antilooping me is an exploit, rework the bliggutt). Same with killers (nerf MFT, nerf COH, nerf DH into flashlights are OP, nerf exhaustion).
Blight does need an addon pass, specifically for C33, vial and ring. That's it.
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@brenkn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545600#Comment_3545600
I play more killer than I do survivor, you totally missed to point of the topic. Its not so about tunneling but more about the condemned meta that totally ignores hooks. You can go to another thread if you want to cry about survivors.
I'm aware what the thread is about. You see, I didn't miss the point of the thread. But it's obvious you missed the point of my message. I wasn't commenting on Sadako's condemn strat, I was amused at your use of the word "tunnel" in an obvious out-of-context sentence to express dislike for a killer strategy; and by extension, the improper use of the term by DBD players (I make no distinction between killers and survivors) to attack anything they dislike. Tunneling refers to hooking someone over and over again and hard targeting them the entire game until they die. If Sadako isn't chasing anyone and just spamming teleport, she is, by definition, NOT tunneling.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546019#Comment_3546019
Can we actually be honest? Stats from nighlight say that average kill rate is 54.586%. That's way above 50% and absolutely NOT in 40s. At least provide correct information (source weighted average from https://nightlight.gg/killers/viewer?sort=pick&shown=pick%7Ckill&start_days=28 )
@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546762#Comment_3546762
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5SSFRCLDPVGD/image.png
I dont know what kind of math classes you took, but 47-48-49 is not "way above 50s"
you know for a fact the average would be *alot lower* if SM wasn't contributing 65% on her own.
In the interest of pissing everyone off, the actual kill rates are currently 52.97% (a far cry from the claimed ~55). And SM only contributes to 325 games. Stats without her games are about 52.80%.
That being said, this also includes solo games, and people DCing (as evidenced by SM's 65%). BHVR aims for a 60% kill rate iirc, so we're still comfortably below.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545635#Comment_3545635
Iri Tag, C33, C21, Ring, Vial, Crow, Rat.
I thought it's obvious.
How are crow, rat, c21, and iri tag individually broken?
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RNG said f you in particular
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544909#Comment_3544909
He has like 7 problematic addons
Which 7?
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I love how tunnel has become the new buzzword for anything DBD players don't like. "you never chase you just tunnel" "stop tunneling gens" "wow noob survivor really had to tunnel that exit gate huh?" "brought a key and tunneled hatch what a noob" "wow this killer really is tunneling this 3 gen huh!"
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545000#Comment_3545000
I literally never 3 genned with her this completely nerfs and invalidates her chase and I already listed so many reasons why this makes her so atrociously bad but yeah keep up the hate band wagon. Also most problematic killer ever released lol just because everyone hopped on a hate band wagon doesn't mean shes the most problematic killer ever released
Name one killer that is/was more problematic on release. A literal baby killer managed to hold the best team in the world in a game for 52 minutes using this killer and a very easy strategic. Not even release Freddy was this bad, and release Freddy was really bad. I don't think anyone who's played this game for any length of time disagrees that SM is the actual worst thing that ever happened to DBD.
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"did you have to entirely rework the most problematic killer ever released into something resembling a chase-oriented killer?"
Chess grandmasters when dev blog drops:
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@Rudjohns said:
Remove DC penalty and its solved
"Solve" an entitlement problem by making the lobby shopping issue a much larger one.
Might as well show the killer, their prestige, perks, offerings, and the map in the lobby, just so survivors REALLY consider if this is a game they wanna play. Who cares if killers get to play against actual humans and not bots.
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@Venusa said:
⭐️~If you don't miss, you don't get penalized~⭐️
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/50SFU8SREGN6/ezgif-2-f99e9646d3.gif
Now post a clip of an invisible hitbox blocking a perfectly aligned tail strike and Xeno losing 3 miles of distance because of it, or the tail attack phasing through a survivor entirely because they were at point blank range and the hitbox seems to lose all coherence at that range.
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@Venusa said:
So let me get this straight... Xeno was considered very good during PTB somewhere like A-tier. Then they buffed an aspect of him that nobody complained about. Then two weeks later they reverted that to the same values as PTB and now he is C-tier?🤭
No one considered him A-tier in the PTB.
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Basekit BT doesn't exist for you to take hits for your unhooker. If you do this, expect to get hard tunneled.
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Ah yes, the "playing through a toilet roll" experience and the "playing through a 3 mile long PVC pipe" experience.
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@HugTechLover said:
It’s going to be fantastic having 4 perks on blight finally. :D
Ah, I see you're a fellow shadowborner.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390645/xenos-m2-is-impossible-to-react-to
you know that they can drag the tail hitbox right? the only reason why many xenos are missing their m2 attacks are mostly because they are learning how it works or they dont bother to do it to secure a hit which is something that you see pretty often on decent xeno mains , and is just miserable because even if you dodge the tails , doesnt matter 3 seconds later he is once again ready to do it again because you gain almost no distance when the xeno is the one doing a bad read and missing over and over while gaining bloodlust.
Pretty sure Xeno loses all Bloodlust any time he uses tail. And dragging tail won't make up for a critical miss or hitting a collision.
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@Mandy said:
Blocked gens have always been able to regress with perks such as Pain Res but they do not regress with passive regression - killers can't kick them, Hex Ruin doesn't work on them. It's the instant regression that works, that's by design and has always supposed to work in that way.
They weren't able to regress with those perks (except Jolt) until very recently. Are you saying blocked gens being hit by Pain Res has been the intended functionality this entire time?
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@Zokenay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539959#Comment_3539959
Hes referring to the curve thing which makes Blight pretty BS at loops, that needs to be patched alongside his addons.
"curve thing"? There is no curve thing aspect to Blight that's not working exactly as intended (including 180s). The "gamebreaking bug" he's talking about is hug tech, one of the easiest things Blight does to counter.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539349#Comment_3539349
you can hit survivors behind window because once tail hitbox goes over window at 4.8 meters. you can move hitbox behind window even when they are behind the wall. it is like sphere that stays at 4.8 meters for 0.4 seconds where you move camera to hit survivor. that is how scott is hitting survivor behind rock. same idea. xeno has a lot of creative potencial skill expression with his tail strike that will take awhile for killer's to master.
do you need to curve hitbox to survivors around windows? the answer is no because you can use his tail whip hit survivors at angle. it is similar to using his power like any of ranged killers where you throw projectile at an angle from the window opening. you can do same with tail attack but it only goes 4.8 meters, so if they're too far away from window, you cannot reach survivor.
No dude. Again, you're not showing me anything new by showing me the hit over the rock. You CANNOT hit a survivor hiding behind a wall/window/whatever, because the HITBOX DISAPPEARS once it hits something other than a survivor. The reason why Scott is able to get that hit is not because of some magic hitbox curving voodoo, it's because the hitbox itself IS TILTED BY DESIGN downwards, and he's simply throwing the hitbox over the rock. There is no curving going on. It's all intended. If you strafe into a window after shooting your tail through, your tail will simply hit the edge and that's it.
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"It becomes fair to deny a down with 10s BT on both because you make them exhausted"
Lol no
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Depends on the MMR. I would argue at the top levels, Nurse and double speed Blight are the only balanced killers.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539355#Comment_3539355
Other than that being an entirely different game mode and expectations thrust upon it with perks being restricted, knowing the map and Killer (or limited Map/Killer roster) ahead of time, sweat SWF clock comms being the norm, among fighting against a mirror match for more or less hook states for your team. Yeah, that completely different method of play is clearly comparable to normal matchmaking and the stonger opponents found there /s.
Don't pretend like we weren't talking about the normal game, not the mediocre (at best) spinoff sweatlords created for themselves. I might as well say "well yeah in Video Horror Society they do this instead", if you consider comp in this discussion to be reasonable to bring up.
Comp should stick to their private lobbies, scrims, and showcase matches. If a comp sweat SWF is playing in normal matchmaking, or playing as if its comp as Killer, then they effectively are just bullying the normal playerbase instead, Killer or Surv.
There are typically much heavier restrictions imposed on survivors in comp than on killers. And map choices are typically one that heavily favors the killer.
Tunneling becomes a necessity if a team is working at a moderate efficiency and not making any critical mistake. Maps are simply too safe, gens are done too quickly. I agree that you don't need to tunnel in 95% of your games, but 95% of pubs are atrociously bad. You don't need a comp-level coordinated swf to need tunneling to win; just a coordinated team (including solos) on a map with bad enough RNG and you're SOL.
Case in point, yesterday, I spent all night going against giga tryhards on Blight. I typically play Blight with Shadowborn alone (with double speed if I'm being chill or Vial+Crow if I'm sweating). I also try to play "nice" and not tunnel. I had a game on Borgo where I finished every chase in under 45s with all of them being near back to back. I still got 3 outed with 7 hook states.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539009#Comment_3539009
I guess you refused to read, because I even recommended a theoretical 9 hit down (if anti-tunnel hits only reduced the timer by 10s a hit). It isn't at all difficult to chase the rescuer instead, or wait out a CA from the targeted Survivor. That doesn't prevent the Killer from winning either. It also often helps a Killer win to chase the rescuer by forcing the other Survivors to heal the formerly on hook Surv (without the potential We'll Make it boost), and getting a new Pain Res proc by hooking the rescuer.
Weaker Killers crutch on tunneling weaker links on the Survivor chain, because they lack the skill to deal with chasing each independently, or to deal with 4 living Survivors by weaponizing their lives against each other. It only wins against soloq, but fails against sweat SWFs. Sadly since the majority of matchmaking is soloq, it makes Killers falsely believe it is the only way to win (when they failed to develop their micro and macro skills).
It is on the Killer to be so obtuse as to smash their head against anti-tunnel mechanisms where there are 2 clear easy outs (chase rescuer/wait out a CA). Same with anti-tunnel in endgame, hit the rescuer en route, then hit them again. Not difficult.
I suppose comp killers are all weak seeing as tunneling is the primary strategy (and they often barely get a few kills).
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539116#Comment_3539116
But your title said "Comparing Ranged(or effectively ranged) Killer Powers Charge Time To Each Other" we wanted a compairison. Besides, at this point its turned into another talk about xeno's ***.
Are you really surprised? The thread has the pretension of comparing ranged killers, but Xeno isn't a ranged killer...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539087#Comment_3539087
the moving of the camera up to down is the up and down component. it also goes left to right if you press A-D. this movement lasts for 0.4 seconds. if survivor hitbox hits red circle on other side after attack finishes, you get hit.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4DCHGC01EFNY/image.png
nemesis cannot do this because his hitbox is like IIII but the llll is blocked by line of sight. so only top part of the line consistent of hitbox. Xeno is more like circle/box that you can move in any direction. As a result of this mechanic, Xeno has higher skill-ceiling because he can hit places that other killers cannot. Nemesis whip and Demo's shred have limited skill-ceiling. there is essentially nothing to learn for those killers. it relies all on the survivor to get hits.
You're not telling me anything new. There's still nothing about that where you "curve the hitbox to hit around a window for someone strafing right". If your hitbox hits a wall, it stops.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539061#Comment_3539061
no. the 0.2 second is delay when the before xeno fires the attack. the attack has travel time but travel time might as well be hitscan. let's just say it is very fast. i am going take a travel time of 2000 m/s. this takes... 0.05 seconds. the 0.4 seconds is how long you can drag your tail strike from up to down or strafe left to right after it is finished. you can do both at same time.
nemesis has 0.35 cast time and opening time refer to how long it takes for his whip to swing to the floor. this takes 0.25 seconds, so whip explodes the floor in blue after 0.25 seconds. the attack lingers for 0.333 second after you see blue color of whip. the 0.33 can be dragged from left to right but not up to down.
It can't be dragged up and down because there is no up and down component to it. It hits four narrow rectangles in front of Nemesis going from top to bottom. As opposed to Xeno's tail which is a singular long skinny hitbox (that's still shorter than Nemesis' rectangles) that still needs to account for up and down, and can sometimes miss for something as dumb as a survivor crouching.
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That's not curving anything. The hitbox is, by design, tilted downwards slightly. All you're seeing is the player pulling the hitbox down and using its off-angle, which is an intended feature (as evidenced by the fact you can move your head up and down during the animation). There is no such thing as "curving the hitbox around a window to catch you if you strafe right", that's a nonsensical statement.
The hit done in the video is also exceptionally hard to pull off in a live game, and requires you to predict the exact location of a survivor behind a wall as well as their movement.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539035#Comment_3539035
xeno tail take 0.6 seconds to reach it's max range, so i really don't understand where you're pulling 0.7 from. Also, yea it is an edge of the hitbox type hit but that still means it's possible to punish a fast vault with power and that's ignoring xenos ability to curve the hitbox around the window to catch you if you strafe tight.
Thanks for pointing out my typo with nem power tho, fixed
I'm pulling 0.7 from live recorded, frame by frame verified footage of the game. Curve the hitbox? No such thing.
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That's more an issue with new female vaults than anything, but that's an edge of hitbox-type hit, aka the kind you'll almost never see/go for.
@Steakdabait said:
Xenomorph
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LYO87LB08GKO/deathslinger-2-0.png
0.2 seconds
Nemesis
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A6GW8OMGL9CI/nem.png
0.7 seconds
Huntress
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4XJ3A8X5CIB0/huntress.png
1.25 seconds 1~ second with both charge addons
Deathslinger
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9P86UEIXC7C4/deathslinger.png
0.5 seconds (after his 10000% aim speed nerf(deserved))
Twins
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FKDBSMVYOQQ0/twins.png
1 second or 0.80 seconds with toy sword
Plague
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZI15HBOYQLSY/plague.png
I wasn't able to find hard numbers on plagues charge time, but it's roughly 0.375 seconds and 0.250(or 0.187 again not super sure how do the math) seconds with the charge addon
Pyramid Head
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UMZ0L1EK4DIU/phead.png
1.3 seconds
The fastest ranged killer power in the game is the xeno(maybe plague) with plague during corrupt purge in close second. For some more context on these numbers, A window fast vault is 0.5 seconds long and a pallet fast vault is 1.1 seconds long.
tail stab is more than twice as fast than a fast vault, so fast that the vast majority of players should be able to use tail stab in reaction to a fast vault. Same with corrupt purge.
Now, this clearly doesn't take in to account a lot of details about the powers themselves such as the obvious things such as hatchets being potentially map wide or that Phead ignores los blockers, or the limits of getting/using the power like deathslinger reloading or plague only having limited access to corrupt unless survivors give her more.
Nemmy is 0.35. It literally says so in the screenshot you posted. Also, 0.35+0.25 is 0.6, not 0.7. And I don't know about the other killers, but in practice, Xeno's tail takes a little less than 0.7s from input to hit (41 frames at 60 FPS).
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538798#Comment_3538798
Basekit bt is enough to get out of basement. So otr really situational then and means you have messed up if you need it in those situations.
You won't get out of basement with basekit BT against a bodyblocking killer on stairs. I do it all the time. It's as simple as standing in the middle of the stairway and shifting left and right ever so slightly, count to 10, then hit the survivor. And I didn't say it was ONLY needed in those situations, I said this is one of those situations where it makes MASSIVE difference. I also explained how OTR value is guaranteed if killer tunnels (whether they hit off hook or not).
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@mizark3 said:
It would be fine if anti-tunnel Endurance stacked/didn't disable due to Deep Wound. If you could take the basekit BT hit, an OTR hit, and then finally a Styptic or DH hit, then it would be fine. The problem is how the Killer (proxy) camping can deny all anti-tunnel features just because they were camping.
Alternatively, if anti-tunnel Endurance was like a Mettle of Man hit, and each hit you took only removed 10s from the timer. You can easily wait out a Conspicuous Action from the Survivor if you want to tunnel as Killer (and I would argue an intentional CA by the Survivor no longer means it is tunneling other than self-healing), and it is especially easy since they removed anti-tunnel from endgame.
Also, personally I'd defend anti-tunnel (OTR/DS) in endgame, because nothing is stopping the Killer from downing the rescuer instead other than their own incompetence. Losing the extra kill in endgame would serve the Killer better in decreasing their MMR, so that they go against Survivors more close to their own skill level.
"You could take three hits and this is fine just because the killer wants to win"
What planet are you living on? In what world do you think it's fine for survivors to have three health states?
Anti-tunnel in endgame? Surely this is a troll.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538996#Comment_3538996
Calling what he did as 'trying' would be like saying a blinkless add-onless Nurse is 'trying'. He had to intentionally hinder his efforts to down you in so many facets everyone has already described, that it was implausible for me to believe he was doing anything other than a pallet tome.
Like what, for example? He had the right general idea for most of the trial; he used Iri Button to get rid of pallets and the subsequent power to catch up quicker, he tried to mindgame any pallet he could, he used power to catch up when I had lots of distance on him. He lost because 1) he overcommitted 2) the map is too safe 3) MFT made me impossible to catch in a map this safe. I would have died maybe a minute or two into that chase without MFT.
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@TheSubstitute said:
The Killer was either completely new or was on a pallet break challenge. Since the Killer wouldn't hit you when repeat vaulting a pallet, would swing at air when you passed a pallet without dropping, looked like they were baiting pallet drops and hit you at the exit gates in such a way that you fell forward into the gate even though there was the opportunity to hit you so you would fall away from the gate I'm betting on pallet break challenge.
I play Gideon quite often as well when I have a pallet break challenge (I usually use Billy with Lo Pro though). It's a great map for doing that challenge quickly.
He wasn't hitting me when I was vaulting because I was denying the iri button value, and hitting me would give me more distance. He also tried pretty hard to deny me the gate, considering he had free downs on both and chose to keep going after me.
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538848#Comment_3538848
BP does not equate to skill level, only playtime. While there is a soft correlation, that isn't hard evidence. Especially since the Legion didn't know such basic facets of their Killer like using power for speed/distance loses you distance if they are already injured.
You almost spun him by running straight when you fell down the hole in the Bathroom achievement gen at ~25s.
Now to be fair, if he sent you to Gideons with Iri Button, he might have simply had a pallet break tome, and you gave him all the tome progress he needed. I do the same myself with Bubba/Nemmy/Blight.
If this was meant to showcase MfT being busted, you would specifically include the timestamps of every loop that required the 3% to dodge the Legion. I did see 1 or 2 pallets/vaults that were MfT exclusive from my memory, but that Legion was certainly not playing as though they were playing to win (again unless their wincon was pallet break tome).
Like I said originally, if that Legion wanted to win, they would corral and down people in the deadzones you created for them, or Deep Wound injure you in the first place.
I didn't run straight, I specifically made an effort to run behind him to confuse him and possibly get the pallet, which didn't work.
I would say considering our chase literally starts with him slugging someone to greed for a down on me, and going out of his way to get me specifically from getting gate, I'd say he was at least trying a little bit.
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@mizark3 said:
So wait, you juiced a baby Legion who refused to down people in the deadzones you created, you almost spun them by running in a straight line, and MfT is the issue? I mean heck, he refused to power injure you in the first place, and was using power for distance (which doesn't work and slows you down).
Can't tell if serious or trolling...
The only problem here is a 50/50 between backfills or you deflating MMR to bully baby Killers. I would normally say this was only a backfill issue, but since you are being so disingenuous with MfT here, it actually makes the 2nd case a possibility.
That baby Legion was P85 and sent himself confidently to Gideon (mistake #1). Then he hard overcommitted to me without pressuring gens (mistake #2) when I had MFT equipped (mistake #3). Where did I almost spin him by running in a straight line? The clip evidently isn't meant to showcase the Legion's skill or lack thereof, it showcases how busted MFT is, especially when combined with a pallet-dense map like Gideon. I would have gone down 4 separate times in that chase if it wasn't for MFT.
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@Shroompy said:
I don't think there's a single time where MfT mattered. Thats more Gideon being Gideon and the killer refusing to let go which is probably the worst thing you can do
Did you miss the fact I was able to run for a mile and a half after every pallet drop, and how many times I got narrowly bailed out?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538693#Comment_3538693
Yes, because that's absolutely up to the player getting pulled off the hook and not to anyone else, like the unhooker or the killer.
@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538693#Comment_3538693
Ah yes, I’mma just dodge the killer that’s standing less than a meter away from me.
If the killer is close enough to you to be able to hit you off hook immediately, your teammates should be unhooking you when close to stage change, meaning you've bought them a lot of free time to crank out gens unbothered. And even then, OTR guarantees value in the fact that killer is forced to M1 you and can't simply wait out BT (which would put you back on the hook if you're hooked in a dead zone). And even outside of this, you're massively advantaged in chase in having unlimited Distortion and old Iron Will, both of which are S-tier perks. Not to mention, you can reset your mend with DS if you happen to have it equipped as well.
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538693#Comment_3538693
Can't do that when killer hits you right after hook when you're still in animation. And otr is useless alone with sb it's okay as long as the killer does not be ready hit immediatelly. Still basekit bt is usually enough to get on to safe loop.
Current ds is still almost better perk which says a lot how superior old ds is to the current otr. If you run dh and mft then otr is useless most of the time too and current ds better choise just if the timer was 80s like otr it would be perfect.
99% of killers that intend on tunneling will take the free tag on the unhooker, which at least buys you enough time to get away from the killer. Not to mention, OTR allows you to escape some extremely dire situations, like a killer hooking you in basement then bodyblocking your BT timer, or hooking you in a deadzone and waiting out BT.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536153#Comment_3536153
The important part for Nemmy is the "if he's in T3" --- which takes time to get to and if you start facing survivors who know you need T3 to be a viable killer, they do pretty much everything in their power to delay your T3. If yurvivors know how to, it is very easy to keep Nemo in T1 for the majority of the match.
Between servers, ping and human ability the big question is "should certain attacks be react-able?" I say it makes more sense / it is more consistent to say the default state is non-reactable. The issue comes into play when "reaction" is pretty much the only card you have to play. (Which, as outlined above, is what sets Xeno apart from Nemo; for Nemo the way more important card to play is to not let him get to T3 or at least delay it for as long as possible.)
All that being said; I still reserve final judgement for when they fix the slowdown situation and turret placement (there are just so many tiles where you simply can't place a turret in a viable location). If those two points get addressed Xeno may very well be very much alright (still on the more frustrating side due to an extremely limited set of cards to play against it but bearable).
And just the same, Xeno can be hard countered with good macro gameplay. It requires getting off gens; which most players are allergic to nowadays, but if you're constantly setting up webs of turrets and running him into them, he has to continuously drop chase or commit as the tallest M1 killer in the game.
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@HarlockTaliesin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536140#Comment_3536140
Jesus. I don't have the Alien DLC and don't plan on getting it anytime soon (not giving BHVR any money with the current state of the game), so my understanding of the tail drag was that it was like Nemesis' tentacle drag: possible but limited, and it took a lot of practice to build up the skill to do it and land a hit. In this shot the Alien was able to drag an entire half way around themselves while the tail was out! That's insane! No wonder it's so easy to get hit by it, particularly when dragging it through an object (wall near a window, junk near a pallet, etc.). That needs to get cut down to at most 1/5 of the circle, and fast.
The active hitbox has already stopped by the time Alien can turn his head.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535914#Comment_3535914
I can throw a ball and a couch at you with the same speed.
you can react and duck down your head to both. The ball will fly over you, but not with the couch.
Pressing E and A/D requires a single finger, only with E you can be anywhere within or without hitbox. A/D requires you to be out of the hitbox.
Its interesting for you to compare E with A/D
Is Xeno's tail supposed to be the couch here? Because Xeno's tail has one of the skinniest hitboxes for an attack in the game.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538214#Comment_3538214
It's good agains't killers who don't tunnel propelly and for bodyblocking.
No, it's just strong overall. I see so many people claim that the Endurance is somehow weak because BT exists. To those people, I recommend learning to preserve your Endurance and not taking a hit immediately off hook.
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Pain Res has been glitched and damages blocked gens now.
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@Pulsar said:
The fact of the matter is that there will almost always be a weak link.
It doesn't matter if it's not you, it doesn't even matter if the Killer identifies it and tunnels them out. If someone is cleansing a bunch of totems and opening chests whilst you or someone else is doing an optimal play, the Killer will still win if they aren't terrible.
If they do tunnel them out and force a 3v1 as many Killers like to do, good luck, since the game isn't balanced around that.
Basically, you can play perfectly and still lose for multiple games in a row.
I may have expressed myself poorly. When I say weak link, I'm not referring to the weakest individual in the team (there will always be one). I'm referring to one individual whose game sense is nowhere near their other three teammates; things like knowing when to go for an unhook/who should do so/if and when to reset/who should bait chase/where to run the killer/which gens to pressure/whether to take a hit may not be evident to them. I would argue that going for the right play at the right time is more important than being a god at looping who always makes poor decisions (and thus for killer AND survivor).
As far as the hyperefficiency part, I also disagree. I really don't think teams need to be as efficient as they are currently against 95% of the killers you'll play against in pubs. I use solo queue as my time to work on challenges (mostly very stupid and inefficient gameplay, like stalking the killer's TR, or doing every totem, etc.). Despite the fact I waste a lot of time, typically, we'll still finish the gens very quickly if we coordinate to do so. I had a game like this yesterday with some randoms where I did every chest on the map while everyone else was messing around. We had a pretty good Legion as our killer. We had 5 hooks without a single gen done, then we decided to hunker down and start cranking them out. We 4 outed at 5 hooks.
@Xernoton said:
I agree with most of what you said but you can't deny the advantage that comes with coordination in this game.
Solo queue groups can perform very good as long as everyone is alert and knows what they are doing. Even more so, with perks that actually help to play in a team. But at some point solo survivors have to be so much better than the killer to actually win, that these kinds of games shouldn't happen all too often. I. e. beating Caitlyn 3Genner in a game of chess.
Just yesterday I played a very good solo queue game. We powered through the first 4 gens with relative ease but we weren't looking out for a possible 3 gen. It worked as a self fullfilling prophecy. We rushed ourselves into a nasty 3 gen on Thompson House against a Dredge with Jolt and Pain Res. I want to make it clear that this was 100% on us. That Dredge did not try to force us into a 3 gen but he did what he had to in order to have a chance to win.
It took us a bit until we found a rhythm and pressured all the gens at once with special focus on one gen that was a bit more secluded than the other 2. If we had had any means to communicate this would have been a much easier task. We still got 3 people out the gates.
I don't think a voice chat is necessarily the best option for solo queue. In fact, I would prefer they never add it. I don't need to listen to a 12 year old screaming slurs into their vacuum cleaner, thankyouverymuch. There would also be the problem of a language barrier. Most people speak English but some are more fluent than others. Instead I'd prefer a chat wheel with some simple call outs like "Heal me.", "Gen nearly finished.", "I'm running towards XYZ." and "Come to me." (obviously with a marker where you are at).
I disagree that survivors need to be "so much better than the killer" to win even as solo queue. A 3-gen SM is a different story, but you'd be surprised how many of them will get overconfident after someone DC's instantly and they finish tunneling out the bot. In fact, I had a SM send us to Midwich yesterday (with the chess grandmaster build: overcharge, oppression, sloppy, eruption with shotgun speakers and the skill check addon). Someone instaDCs because it's SM on Midwich (can't blame them) and she tunnels the bot in 2-3 minutes. I spent the rest of the game BMing her and baited her into a few chases. My teammates were extremely efficient on gens, hopping on every time she left, and they were able to finish all of them and 1-outed. Bit of an anecdote, but no one plays perfect (killer or survivor) and killers will get sloppy if they figure they're playing against solo queue.
@brewingtea said:
People that have played in SWFs (like yourself) tend to do better, even when NOT on a team. You're going to ride the proverbial bike better once you take off the training wheels vs. the player who never had training wheels in the first place. Just because YOU suddenly don't need them doesn't mean they aren't helpful. It's not a fair comparison.
Plus, solo Q isn't necessarily bad because you "can't win". It's more that it's boring because your loadout is hamstrung by the lack of communication. You basically have to run Kindred because none of your teammates can call out, "I'm going for the save." and the player on hook can't say, "Don't bother. Bubba is camping." You basically have to run Deja Vu because having 4 players running around "organically" finding each gen separately (while not technically impossible) is a guaranteed loss. Etc., etc.
Even if the game is unwinnable because someone else screwed up, I would have more fun if I could try out different builds. Instead, I have to run the same crap on every survivor or else I'M the weak link!
Coordinating to avoid a 3-gen is another thing that can happen organically with a little gamesense. This is typically what I'll do at the start of the match: look for the nearest gen and start working on it. Did I spawn with someone? I will point to the gen and signal for them to do it, then run to the opposite side of the map (or any critical gens) and start working on a gen there. You also don't NEED to run xyz on every survivor (and if you feel the need to do so, you may be the weak link). I've had teammates that ran No Mither, and ONLY No Mither, that juiced up killers for 3-4 gens. Again, knowing what to do, and when to do it, is more important than amazing plays or bringing strong perks.
@UnavailableName said:
The problem with soloQ is that most survivors do nothing. Try it for yourself, check how long it takes for the other 3 survivors to touch a gen.
I have had many games (most of them) where the other 3 survivors do absolutely nothing for more than 5 minutes. Nothing, they do not do chest, do not do gens, do not do totems.
Sometimes one of them is in chase, i do a gen and the 2 others do nothing at all for minutes.
THAT's the main problem with the game. The matchmaking doesn't help as it gathers trash survivors with extremely good survivors... giving a terrible experience for all players, killers included.
You are literally saying what I said in the OP. Looks like we're on the same page.
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Easily one of the strongest perks in the game for survivors currently. Some might even argue it's too strong. It's 3 S-tier perks in one for 80s, twice a game.
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@CS1_6 said:
I don't really understand his power. He's here to spread terror and hallucinations but you have to invest an entire build to at least increase his terror radius which sucks bad and you can only reach so far until I reach the limit. If they want to play stealth doctor then they could change his addons or use oblivious/undetectable perks?
My first thought playing against doctor as dwight was whenever I get close to doctor, my madness would passively increase but I soon came to realize that wasn't true. Another weird thing is his fake doctors never move. Why is that?
Anyway I hope someone could explain all this to me.
Why would he have an infinite TR?
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537753#Comment_3537753
I give you the 10% even tho I still think isn't really worth the time to kick the gen and for the cooldown the perk has after it triggers. As for the aura reading it's the most useless part of the perk. That info is competely unused bc by the time you pick up, carry, and hook the person you down that aura reading is gone. BBQ, Floods, Face of Darkness, and Nowhere to hide are all better info perks. Personally I rather them remove the aura reading from the perk and either remove the cooldown or keep the cooldown and bump the regression to 15%. Another way I would change it is to move its trigger from downs to hooks. That why you can use the aura reading and then you can keep it mostly the same.
Maybe it's just me but gen-kicking perks need to feel super rewarding to make me want to kick a gen otherwise I rather spend that time looking for survivors than holding space on a gen. The only gen-kicking perk that is worth it for me is pop. If I need info with my kick then I would use nowhere to hide with Pop. Those two perks imo do a much better job than an eruption.
The aura can give you a general idea of what the survivor does: if they try to sneak away, or get back on the gen. You can also slug assuming the gen isn't too far off, and make your way over to pressure the survivor whose aura you see. Yes, all the perks you mentioned ARE better info perks but that's all they are: info perks. Eruption is both a gen regression AND info perk, and pairs very well with other strong perks like NTH and Pop.
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Imo you really need to play both roles to have anything close to a well-adjusted mindset in this game. I'm split 70/30 between killer and surv, and whenever I play survivor, I can empathize when a killer feels the need to tunnel/camp after losing 4 gens in the first chase. I also get pissed off when a teammate (especially if we're on comms) decides to start bagging at the exit gate; especially if the killer went out of their way to not camp or tunnel.
I can also empathize with solo survivors who get bricks as their teammates, or even brand new baby survivors who got screwed over by MMR who play super immersed, just trying their hardest to do something useful.
Honestly, if you lack context in either role, you'll probably hold a lot of bias and view the opposite side as spoiled, entitled, and toxic for anything they do.
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Pocket 10% gen regression PLUS aura read isn't enough? Eruption is one of the top 3 current gen regression perk along with Pain Res and Pop. Leave it alone.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536205#Comment_3536205
Yeah, Singularity dominates. Wait, have you played him? I played him a bunch and the only matches you lose as him are the matches you were going to lose regardless. Plus you are acting like Singularity can't spend 2s to reapply the goo. The Survivor needs to waste 2s in an item grab animation for you to spend closing the distance and getting a free hit if they de-goo themself.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536208#Comment_3536208
Xeno presses the button and .2s later the hitbox spawns while still moving at 4.6. Nemmy has to hold M2 for .35s, slowing down, then he can tap M1 to start spawning the hitboxes. (I haven't been including the Attack Open time, but I believe this is how long after the whip is prepared and you hit M1 that you need to wait before the Attack Hit time has the hitboxes linger. I don't know for certain though. If that is the case then technically Nemmy has a .6s minimum windup. But since I don't know, I'm sticking with the .35s because it is more favorable to your point.)
I'm not trying to dodge your point, I don't understand the point you are making. If he is close enough to bodyblock, then he was close enough to M1 without needing to wind up the whip to begin with. Otherwise he has too much distance to cover. In non-filler pallet loops you can take the opposite of the window or pallet in the cancellation cool-down. Eg. Shack you can take the pallet instead of the window, or Jungle Gyms at the window can take the pallet instead. This basically only applies to hyper-zoned filler pallets, but even Nemmy has a similar problem at those as Huntress, as he has to round the loop and commit to the tentacle or the hold-W at the pallet each rotation. Even if Nemmy threatens a whip every rotation, he slows to 3.8/4.0 for .35s, and 4.2 for 1.5s, losing .81/.88m each threaten, and since it is a rounded loop with a Survivor smaller hitbox this distance is compounded. Also this .88 is closed in about 1 and a half seconds, you in a rounded loop you still lose ~1.5s of distance on chasing the Survivor by threatening the whip.
You're still missing my point. It doesn't MATTER if you have distance on him or not, he can simply close it while his tentacle is pulled up. No matter what you do, you lose. To use your example: Nemesis enters Shack with his tentacle pulled up towards the window, you don't take the window, he continues walking towards you with his whip pulled up. You swerve towards the pallet, he zones you away from the window and pushes you towards the pallet. Either you run through the pallet and get hit, or you walk away from it, and he can simply cancel power and M1 before you make either the pallet or the window. The killers shouldn't have similar charge/open times, if that's your point. They're different killers, and their powers are different, and should have different values.
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Literally go play anything else. Burn out is a normal part of human behavior. I've had it where I despised playing the game. I took a 2 week break and played something else and came back having the time of my life on Blight.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I feel OP can't win this argument. Not because they are wrong, but moreover whatever they show there will always be something some people will point out that could have been done better.
A better video would be to show a dodge from a tail whip without Dead Hard, because many will prefer to know a power can be outplayed without having to arm themselves with a perk.
However, there are a lot of numbers being hurled about (which is all well and good), but numbers are calculations, not practicality with all the factors to take into account in actual gameplay. What I do see is the Xenomorph raise the tail and the survivor watching this and timing their Dead Hard well. 4 survivors escaped that trial too and I would hazard a guess the tail whip was not used just one time.
I'd also like to add some thing else for now: The Xenomorph is quick, but there is a clear indicator of when it will strike. Compare that to Huntress. Of course, you hear her wind up, but she holds it amd when she releases it the hatchet from a close distance, as soon as she does her "Huh!" sound you are hit. There is far less warning she is going to throw. Executioner and Deathslinger can also hold their powers and fire any time.
So, I would agree with OP here, but it is tough. Harder to defend because of the plethora of shoulda/coulda counter-arguments to footage, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. OP had no hindsight when using Dead Hard and that tail swipe was a solid hit. Still, would like to see footage of a non-perk dodge used as proof in debates such as this.
I already said elsewhere I'm too slow (and old) to dodge the tail on reaction but the clip also shows a 0.7s ish from power use to hit. I'm sure someone quick enough could dodge it on reaction, but I'm also arguing they shouldn't be able to in the first place (because he can't buffer his power and is locked into using it).