dbdthegame
dbdthegame
About
- Username
- dbdthegame
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556979#Comment_3556979
....why are you M1 chasing with Trapper?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're supposed to chase in a web and try to catch them in Traps.
Because I got Eyrie/Garden/Gideon/insert whatever other terrible map for Trapper there is, against a 4 man that defuses my traps while I'm mid chase, and I have literally no other option?
-
Trapperbros... We're going home...
Now, just need to kill MFT for good measure.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556635#Comment_3556635
"Completely unviable"
So you think those Killers have a, what, 30% KR against MFT?
Have you thought about TRYING to think outside the box and TRYING to counter the perk instead of throwing up your hands and saying it's OP? Like genuinely, have you tried?
I have, and it's completely possible.
It's possible; just in the same way countering old Eruption was possible. It was just exhausting and took way more effort than is worth. I want to play Trapper, but why would I when I know at least 1 in 4 of survivors I'll have in my lobbies will have the funny 3% perk that will erase all their mistakes around tiles? The problem with MFT is, in my opinion, very similar to the problem with Gideon. Gideon is very uninteractive (run to god pallet, drop god pallet, killer breaks, rinse and repeat until deadzone and killer 3-gens). In the same way, MFT renders a lot of the fun of chases and mindgames very stale and uninteractive for killer. Win a mindgame around shack and vault perfectly on top of survivor? Who cares, they still make window with MFT+Resi. Every strong tile becomes a "Hold W to build Bloodlust and wait for them to drop the strong pallet". Every filler becomes "stop respecting and just chase hoping they greed and eat pallet after pallet". It removes all interaction from the chase. It diminishes the impact of winning a mindgame around a tile, and reduces the entire chase interaction into a game of "can you outspeed/outzone the funny haste perk?".
Frankly, it's long overdue for a nerf.
-
@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556637#Comment_3556637
Alright name the killers that can mitigate MFT.
Hard counters - Artist,Nurse,blight, wesker
soft counter but still impacted - slinger, huntress, trickster , hag
Am i missing anyone?
The other 25 are forced to chase normally and get 100% screwed by MFT , like myers, pig, ghostface , doctor , freddy , etc
Now, i conservatively said 20 previously because im aware there's certain killers with "close in " abilities like wraith and billy or pseudo anti loop like xeno and trapper, but they still have to chase normally in a tile and get screwed hard shift W chases.
It's hard to even say Artist/Wesker hard counter MFT. Artist still has to play around "hold W", and it's actually her primary counter. MFT buys you 20% extra time for every second you can spend holding W. Wesker can't use his power around a lot of fillers with awkward geometry (rock pallets being a big one), and MFT is very effective around these tiles. The only two killers that care very little for MFT are Blight and Nurse. Every other killer is affected by it to a certain extent.
-
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
Remove Endurance effect, and make it so MFT can’t stack with other haste perks.
Thats all the perk needs.
But (hot take), until Blight gets his busted add-ons nerfed, MFT should remain in its current state, 3 years we dealt with it while MFT remained in game for 5 months.
How do you reconcile the two? MFT affects the weakest killers the most, and does nothing for Blight.
-
@Luv2NotHateDBD said:
The psychological effect this perk has people is hilarious. It's been proven that this perk isn't that OP'd. Got to youtube and you can see even proof that it's been tested.
Ok, give me a link that proves this.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Comp players like him and his content just pile onto the negativity if not outright encourage it.
He's not a comp player.
-
Imo, Singularity is one of the best designed killers in the game. All he needs is QoL changes (default to closer, fresh cameras in chase; make "camping" less punishing when using cameras; fix bad collisions eating a tag for no reason) but he's in a phenomenal spot.
-
Early game help for killers. Something like a 60s basekit corrupt would be extremely healthy for the game. Also, kill toolboxes.
-
lil bro is pressed that there's a killer he can't use MFT against
-
@sizzlingmario4 said:
The weaker toolboxes are fine. It's mainly Commodious toolboxes + extra charge addons that are the issue.
Precisely. Toolbox charge addons shouldn't exist, and toolboxes with more than 24 charges shouldn't exist. Also, toolboxes shouldn't have added skill check chance. The synergy with Hyperout has been around for far too long to be ignored, it's only a matter of time till survivors migrate to it when their MFT crutch inevitably gets nerfed.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553975#Comment_3553975
So the only Killers hurt by MFT are Trapper and Freddy.
Literally every other Killer has a way to circumvent MFT.
Huntress? Trickster? Hag? Just about any killer without a mobility or slowdown power?
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553790#Comment_3553790
That's also what I don't get. If the chase lasted 30s, you are already 5s deep into BL 2. BL1 against MfT already still has a .68m/s or a .08m/s advantage over normal for 10s, and BL2 has .88m/s, nearly 50% more than the base .6m/s for that minimum 5s. I've heard various breakpoints of MfT vs SB, and they nearly always seem to put SB in a more favorable light. They also tend to discount SB's other uses, although to be fair, I discount the Endurance in the MfT discussion because I advocate its removal from MfT.
I understand MfT gives more leeway for mistakes, but those predominantly exist in places where mistakes matter by a sufficiently small margin that it already is 'M1 uncounterable if the Survivor plays it perfectly' like shack. It doesn't add 'new' shacks essentially, just the existing ones are more painful. I already have it in my mind how I plan on countering them, and am ready to 'bruteforce' the 3 window vaults and/or pallets and/or Bloodlust if need be.
I basically view MfT and Resilience in the same 'anti-lag' realm. Essentially if the Killer and Survivor had 0 ping each, would the vaults/hits still work? Most times, the MfT/Resilience time adjustments are only enough to negate Killer's lagvantage. Negating an advantage that never should have existed doesn't seem like an issue to me (in most cases).
Unfortunately, BL tends to reset when you use your power or when you break a pallet. So it doesn't matter how high you can get it, all it takes is one safe pallet drop and you're forced to do it all over again.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553761#Comment_3553761
But what does the performance of the perk in a micro setting have to do with the perk's balancing in the actual game?
A powerless killer in a 1v1 where the survivor doesn't have to worry about preserving resources isn't really going to tell you much of anything at all about how strong any perk is, especially chase perks. Put something like Sprint Burst or Lithe in that scenario and not only will it completely shred MFT's value, it'll also substantially outperform real match examples of itself.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553722#Comment_3553722
What does taking the weakest Killer with no perks or power into a 1v1 without any resource management or macro play prove?
Nothing. It proves nothing.
The perk's performance in a micro setting is directly correlated to its performance in a macro setting. There's a reason we use the words "micro" and "macro", because the plural of micro is macro. If MFT acts as a chase extender for every survivor running it by, say, 30s (micro), it buys every single survivor on the map 3x30s to do gens/reset/do whatever, unbothered (macro). Things in DBD don't happen in a vacuum. A 1v1 tests the perk's performance in a micro, and the killer choice/map choice is to set a standard for a fairly killer sided map, and a pure M1 killer. Or, we can also bring up the math that's been done numerous times before showing how egregious of a chase extender MFT is.
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553762#Comment_3553762
I hard disagree with it overshadowing every other chase perk, and am a fervent Sprint Burst (word for I think its the most powerful, but not overpowered, my vocab is failing me atm). As long as they remain mutually exclusive, MfT is a gift in the face of SB. That is where my confusions lie. It would be like someone saying "I hate going against Deathslinger, he is just too OP, nothing else compares to him" while Nurse/Blight/Spirit still exist or "Dredge is too stealthy, there isn't a Killer more stealthy than him" when Ghosty/Pig/Myers(especially with Monitor or other perk support) exist. As an alternative it would be like complaining about Survivors healing too fast off hook with Botany, while ignoring We'll Make It. That's what I'm not getting. I see SB as strictly superior. It's like complaining a 500ml bottle of soda has too much sugar, then you down a 2-liter.
To be fair, you can hate more than 1 thing and for different reasons, and if they despise Sprint Burst in that same Nurse/Blight/Spirit realm as a "its always BS, and most people don't need to qualify their opinion", then I can understand. That's the problem though, I'm not seeing 'nerf SB' posts at the same frequency of 'nerf Nurse/Blight/Spirit/MfT' posts. I honestly don't recall seeing a 'nerf SB' thread (maybe even post) within a month even.
My matches are colossally more difficult against Sprint Burst/Adrenaline than against MfT/Hope. Maybe it's just my playstyle, but behind Ghosty, I probably have the most (normal M1*) matches on Clown and Legion, and they aren't exactly stealthy. MfT users save me from SB users, and I thank them for it. The Ghosty pallet stun sigh is the perfect example of my response to SB.
(*At one point I hard dedicated playing Blight to find counterplay, and I only found gaps in my knowledge or misplays on my part. When I learned how to bounce at new loops, counterplay didn't exist, so it was on the Blight player to be bad at Blight for counterplay to exist, and I don't find that enjoyable on either end, as my wins mean nothing, and losses mean I sucked. I need a chance at failure beyond my control for the brain chemicals to activate on win, otherwise I'd just play singleplayer games with cheat engine and god mode for my 'fix'.)
It's objectively untrue that SB is superior though. SB is only superior in the sense that it gives you a one time get-out-of-jail-free card when you pop it (assuming you're not against a killer that can actually hit you through it). MFT's value will overshadow SB's in hard chase time as soon as the chase goes over ~30 seconds.
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553748#Comment_3553748
I addressed that in the same post within the reply below the reply to you, that's a huge list of (Survivor) perks that give a reward/can be used when a Survivor gets injured. I'm just not sure why MfT gets the level of vitriol outside of being among the strongest of perks (that people also have explained, is simultaneously garbage against the strongest of Killers). It's almost like a simple Rock Paper Scissors, with a 4th Bomb option. Survivor brings MfT, wins against a weak Clown, then loses against a weak Blight, then brings SB and wins against both weak Killers until they go against strong Killers. Sprint Burst is the 'Bomb' option.
Heck, even Overcome seems like it would receive far more flak for doing nearly that same thing as MfT although frontloaded instead, or Lucky Break for doing an adjacent thing.
I've seen you in enough MFT discussions at this point that I'm sure you know what people's issues are with MFT. The vitriol directed at it specifically is it provides far too much value, far too consistently, and has little to no counter if it's in play and you're playing a killer without a chase power. It's a perk that overshadows every other chase perk in the game, and makes for a very stale and bland meta on both sides. Every game I load in, I know I'm gonna see at least 3x MFT, with maybe 2x hope, with two DH, and maybe one FTP BU in the mix. Every game, I'm inclinde to play Blight to deal with it all.
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553722#Comment_3553722
What does having a trapper with no perks have to do with MFT being broken? If you can't handle discussion then why did you make the post? You've lost me at this point
What does testing the effect of the perk in a micro setting have to do with the performance of the perk in a micro setting? That's a tough one... Let me think about it and I'll get back to you.
-
@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553234#Comment_3553234
Guy posts a screenshot of random public match where he killed 4 random people while they were using mft. It's settled guys, mft is fine, sorry
I 4k'd yesterday with Trapper on Eyrie against 4 MFTs. Am I now the God Emperor of this forum?
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553657#Comment_3553657
I don't know what else to tell you or what it is you want from this conversation then. Ive said what I need to say in regards to MFT and how it's not the overly busted perk you are trying to claim. I'm not the only one who thinks so as you can tell from above responses. I'm not saying you're wrong because you are bias I'm saying you're wrong because the perk is not nearly as problematic as you are trying to say. Also when Myers is able to mori healthy, unhooked survivors then MFTs "brokenness" is more than warranted in such states. Maybe that's why they added the perk? It's not as simple as "this is wrong because I don't like it" argument thats getting thrown about. If it hurts your eyes boo get them checked since mine are doing just fine over here :)
I have a pretty easy way to show that MFT is overperforming. Let's hop in a 1v1, you and me. Trapper, no perks, in Coal Tower. You can use any exhaustion perk you want+resi, I'll use MFT and resi. I'm a killer main, so it should be fairly simple for you to win.
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553579#Comment_3553579
This may be hard for you to believe but it's not personally about you :) if I'm making assumptions it's based on what you have told me already. Since you brought it up, if the game is doing so well balance wise then how come you made this post to complain about one perk? My exact argument is that if the game is in it's most balanced of states then how can one perk be such a hindrance to that? By that definition it is not balanced if this one perk causes so much grief as you say it does. MFT may have a speed boost but you also forget that it doesn't work while exhausted which means it doesn't pair off the best with an exhaustion perk. Exhaustion perks are the universal second chance perks to survivors and without them the actual player has to have good map awareness and player skill. Where it sounds like you're playing is the p100 arena where everyone plays as if their mother is being held hostage and her survival depends on you winning this game of dbd. If comp places limitations than that is on them for trying to play comp in a game that's not built for that level of competitive play. Bloodlust is a thing and so is the killer you have as your portrait. I'll say don't slug again but you can scroll up if you want the full reasoning behind it. Maybe you can try lowering your own MMR so you aren't placed in bad crowds with these types of players who are overall unhealthy for the games balance to begin with.
You seem to misunderstand what I meant to say when I said your entire post was personal. My point is, even if I announced loud and proud that I'm the most biased killer main in existence, if you dismiss my arguments as "well you're biased so you're wrong!", you're arguing in bad faith. Attack the argument, not the character.
Is it possible for a game, hypothetically, to be perfectly balanced, aside from one notoriously unbalanced mechanic that entirely throws that off? The answer is evidently yes. DBD isn't perfectly balanced by any means, but MFT spits in the face of any pretension of balance and puts all the chips on the survivor's side. There is no excuse for this perk to continue to exist.
Actually, MFT pairs quite well with a lot of exhaustion perks. Because while it doesn't work when EXHAUSTED, it works all the way up UNTIL you are exhausted. What does this mean? Well, it means that you can essentially loop until your MFT luck runs out, and then use your exhaustion perk for a quick bail out and a chase extension. It especially pairs well with Dead Hard because both activate while injured.
Why do you use the term "held hostage" here? What or who is being held hostage, and how? I'm not asking for comp limitations to be placed in regular gameplay; I'm simply asking for regular gameplay to not be oversaturated with overpowered perks like MFT and FTP+BU.
I've already addressed the whataboutism enough, I'm not gonna address anymore of it. We're discussing MFT, bringing up Bloodlust, or killers you don't like, or other qualms you may have with the game has no place in this conversation.
Also, can I ask that you please start using paragraphs? Reading your posts hurts my eyes.
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553535#Comment_3553535
You keep talking about stacks of builds like everyone has them. DH is not used. Y every single survivor that exists nor is it always topped with MFT. From what I can tell you are a p100 blight main which means you've gotten used to just getting kills for the sake of queuing in which is not a mindset to bring when trying to discuss the "health" of the games perks. Also you need to drop this mentality that dbd is a competitive game. It's incredibly luck based and unbalanced as ****. While some players have only this game to play and like to torment themselves by saying "oh I can play dbd is a "tournament" so that makes my word holy writ" that doesn't mean the rest of us have to take in your bias towards builds that counter the really unbalanced killer you choose to play. Blight needs a rework and this has been said for years so as long as he's out and about being the most busted killer (information taken from your "competitive" leaks) you can't complain about MFT. If you were making an argument for any other killer (even the nurse is more applicable) than I would be more inclined to listen but you are giving off the vibe that you personally can't deal with something so that means the rest of us should follow suit. Not a cute look.
Also let go of the typo and don't act superior because you typed the wrong thing and didn't check yourself before posting. That's not on me
You're making an awful lot of assumptions about me there. But that's okay.
DBD is really not that unbalanced anymore. If this was 3-4 years ago, sure. But not so much anymore. There is actually a fair resemblance of balance in DBD, and it can be fine tuned by picking certain maps for certain killers and placing certain limits on perks/addons/items - you know - exactly what comp does.
Do you have any arguments in defense of MFT specifically or do you just not like me personally?
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553525#Comment_3553525
If it's a typo then it's clearly not what I thought you meant but sure I'm the one "hyperfocusing"
Would the top tier killer at play be otz? No offense and he's a really good player but he also seems like he's biased and easily angered by the mechanics of the game. MFT has some baggage sure but it's not nearly as bad as old dh or even the really old ds that literally granted free escapes for no other reason other than getting off the hook. You act as if killers don't already know the countdown tick to get past endurance. Happens all the time off hook and MFT doesn't protect you from window/generator grabs. Ds does so maybe someone can synergize those for some plays but I personally don't see the point in that. Yes I agree that the endurance should only affect one survivor at a time but it's not nearly as busted by itself as many are saying. Extra speed? Use your base bloodlust to get past that and don't break any pallets and force respect on said pallets. If you see an infinite coming then head for the next one. Dbd is not a game to be this competitive and technical over as by design it is extremely unfair in most cases. Killers cant take a 4 man sweat squad nor can survivors take on a p100 blight that has every corner of every map memorized. MFT is supposed to affect those type of killers and it sucks that everyone else has to take the fall for it but there is little to no counterplay at high levels and unfortunately, this is where the devs see the need to balance. Casuals are left to their own devices. It's not "lacking counterargument" by not agreeing with you :)
You obviously understand the activation criteria for MFT, as do I. The typo was quite clear; I mistakenly typed uninjured instead of injured. The point being that the bar to meet to activate MFT is very low.
Why are you bringing up Otz? You're arguing against the ghosts of Christmas past. Otz is neither a top tier player (no offense to him), nor a comp player. I'm talking about people like KnightLight, Zaka, V1, and other comp players in some of the most consistent teams in the scene. But even outside of them, I can't think of a single person that has any tangible experience in DBD playing both sides, that doesn't agree that MFT is ridiculously overperforming.
Counting down Endurance doesn't matter if the 10s lets you make a god pallet/fast vault. You either hit into the Endurance, give a free speedboost, all so you can avoid a potential DH, or wait it out, play into 3% haste, and eat a DH 2 minutes later anyways. There is no winning scenario. MFT doesn't protect you from generator grabs because working on a gen is a conspicuous action, and those delete endurance. Yes, old DS is stupid. You can do a gen in the killer's face and they have nothing they can do about it. But that's been nerfed, and now there's a new overperforming perk in town, and it needs adjustments.
How do you use your "base bloodlust" when you lose chase every 3 seconds because the survivor is literally so fast you can't keep up with them on half the mains in the game? And how do you use your base bloodlust when the survivor keeps chaining god filler into god filler into strong tile with 3% haste and resi? And even when you do finally catch up, you eat a DH and have to do it all over again.
You're not saying something that's exclusive to DBD when you talk about skill difference. Any game with a semblance of skill requirement will be massively lopsided towards one side that is vastly more skilled than the other. But at the top level, most killers on the roster stand no chance against MFT, because the perk simply provides an effect that is far too strong. The ironic part is, MFT does nothing for the sweatlord P100 Blight (I should know, I am one). But it does do something for the Trapper playing with a meme build that gets sent to Garden of Joy. And yes, even top tier players playing top tier killers have counters. This includes Blight, and Nurse, and any other killer you want to lump in with them. The level of skill that you have to bring to the table to counter these killers is equivalent to the one that they bring. When MFT is on the table, however, and against a killer without a chase power, there is nothing that the killer player can hope to bring to counter it, outside of whatever ineffective exhaustion tool they may have.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553515#Comment_3553515
...Are you implying all of those things are overpowered?
The only overpowered things on this list are Buckle Up + For The People, and giga toolboxes. The rest range from strong but fair to outright weak.
None of them nullify your killer, either, if that's the part they're meant to be countering. At best you could argue Calm Spirit is particularly potent against Doctor, but let's not pretend that makes it OP or renders you literally powerless.
I don't agree with the person you're responding to, Bloodlust is a healthy mechanic, but this is a weird rebuttal.
He wasn't implying they were overpowered, he was giving a counterexample to the claim that survivors can't counter killer mechanics. Survivors bringing 4x Distortion against a full aura Huntress, for example, results in the killer playing essentially perkless.
I'll also say, there are definitely certain perks that counter certain killers. Anti-slugging against Twins, Urban Evasion against Huntress/Slinger, MFT against Doctor, Fixated against Pinhead, Iron Will/Lucky Break against Spirit, even a Rainbow Map against Hag/Trapper. I don't have any problem with these, however. MFT is overperforming against far too many killers though, and doesn't just counter a specific aspect of their power, but rather the entire chase dimension of the game.
And I actually agree with the guy that Bloodlust is a stupid mechanic (but so is the current map design), but that's not a conversation for this thread. You'll notice MFT apologists keep trying to shift the conversation onto something else, because any conversation about MFT specifically yields too much empirical data about its overperformance than can be overlooked.
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553494#Comment_3553494
Bruh if you made the typo don't act like it's out of the question to be mistaken 🤣 moving on to your other points. It sounds like survivors put useful combos to use and that's what you have the issue with. I have been enjoying the stake out/fogwise combo since it gives me awareness of the killer when applicable but can be countered easily by fearmonger and stealth killers. My point being you have counterplay. Also you seem to be using examples exclusively from a vs swf mindset and while I agree that swf is really unfair most of the time it can't be the basis for how the game is balanced. MFT can be reduced by not slugging and if you see that they are forcing an endurance hit in play then you have the option of either tunneling the endurance hit for the down or moving on. Yes I know that many will say "killer can't do this" but in reality you are able to. Some slight pressure on the gens will really keeps survivors off that area. It's not as busy as as you think but I do agree that the endurance effect either needs to be removed or reworked. Having a little extra speed is not a bad thing unless hope is in play during the end game which from what I've seen only makes killers mad since it counters NOED and you can't just get a free down and kill. If you see this in play then either go for someone else and in the event of a swf just loosen up and chase them out (they tend to annoyingly wait at the gate) and move on to the next game. Nerfing is not needed just because you personally can't deal with something as plenty of killers have risen above and killed the MFT survivor many a time
Hyperfocusing on a typo as if it's some massive gotcha when you knew exactly what I meant to say, is a showcase of your lack of counterargument, and is clearly what I meant.
There's useful combos, like Vigil Sprint Burst, or Chemical Trap Flashbang, or Wiretap Blast Mine, or Head On QnQ. The synergy between these perks is fine, as the effect isn't overpowering. When you have a perk that gives you AND someone else endurance for 10s before the killer can even finish his recovery animation, and denies a slug/hook, that's not a useful combo. That's a broken combo. In the same way that old COB+Eruption/Overcharge was a broken combo that needed to get gutted.
What's the counterplay to FTP+BU or 99ing heals with MFT and stacking gens with Resilience? I don't think I've talked about the macro effects of MFT at all, this entire conversation has been nothing but its micro effects in the 1v1. There is no distinction between SWF and not SWF here.
Some of the best players in the entire game; comp players, who play at the highest level, on both roles, and who have more hours in this game than you and I combined, all hold the consensus that MFT is ridiculously busted, and if you can't extract any value from the perk, your skill at the game is in the negatives. Do with that information what you will.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553433#Comment_3553433
Hyperfocus in its best scenario is OP.
So is PGTW.
Nobody cares about hypothetical vacuum experiments. Clearly, the actual game isn't reflecting what people are loudly proclaiming is the most OP perk since Mettle of Man.
Hyperfocus performs better in a vacuum (assuming perfect skill checks every time). MFT performs WORSE in a vacuum (because you cannot realistically account for extra loops around tiles, making tiles/windows/pallets you wouldn't have otherwise, the inability for killers to mindgame stronger tiles like mains and shack or god fillers, and the fact you can still use an exhaustion perk at the end of it all and extend the chase even more (DH being a very common one). MFT is problematic no matter how you slice it. The fact that the perk is beyond busted in theory is insulting. The fact that it's even more busted in practice is a middle finger to any killer without a mobility power.
-
@mecca said:
I think it's comical a blight main is complaining about a small 3% speed for the cost of a perk slot. You know Blight can be completely across the map in like a couple of seconds without even using a perk??? What percentage boost is that?
Blight mains sometimes play other killers, and may or may not get aggravated that their perfect mindgames around strong tiles get completely nullified by le funny 3% perkz! But don't whine when you run into my Blight and I 4-man slug you at 5 gens. You wouldn't do that, would you? Unlike the other 68 pages of Steam comments I have from survivors whining that their overpowered builds and overpowered items with a map offering to boot didn't save them against the broken Bligguht.
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553464#Comment_3553464
Uninjured? My guy look at the perk before you go on. You have to be hit by the killer in order to get the effect of mft which as stated above does not actually give that much of an advantage unless paired with other perks. The endurance effect? Don't slug. The perk is clearly a slugging counter so going with that gameplay will let survivors get the full value from their build. Hooking someone after you down them will negate this effect. The killer you are playing can be overwhelmed by the MFT if it's a basic m1 killer but other than that it won't have much of an effect on blight, nurse, Wesker and even tricksters on the occasion. The game also utilizes the unknown RNG for how a match plays out. A trapper will have a bad time against a squad of 4 man swf sweats that all carry mft, but a blight against a full solo q squad will have a much better time. The thing people won't accept about dbd is that you have no control over how well you are going to do until you see what you are dealing with which may or may not be beyond your skill level. Killers saying one perk needs to be nerfed doesn't give it grounds when the same can be said by survivors about NOED, devour hope, ultimate weapon etc. None have actual issues with the game it's just an RNG as to whether you get use from it. Sometimes just take (the often undeserved) L and try again next game
Omg someone typo'd injured as uninjured. I win the internetz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111oneoneoneoenoen
Endurance comes into play far more than just "don't slug". Even excluding the ability to get free resets if you pop a heal in the killer's face, things like dying on a pallet with a teammate nearby ready for the pallet save, who then takes a hit, while you 99 your pick up with Unbreakable, leads to obnoxious and unwinnable scenarios for killer quite often. The perk isn't a slugging counter. Buckle Up is a slugging counter, because it specifically only activates on slugging. The stupid synergy it has with FTP needs to get gutted yesterday, and the perk powercrept both Soul Guard and WGLF which is another problem on its own, but that's what an anti-slugging perk looks like. MFT is just a "do-everything" perk, in the same way that old Eruption was.
Sure, Blight, Wesker and Nurse won't have much of an issue with it (map dependent), so don't complain when all you run into is those three killers.
"RNG" doesn't excuse poor perk design, which MFT is objectively poorly designed, and has been demonstrated 50 different ways. And this isn't gonna turn into whataboutism. Killers have NOED, survivors have Adrenaline. Killers have UW, survivors have Hope. Each side has perks that get obnoxious to deal with, but none rise to the level of stupidity of MFT, or the aforementioned FTP+Buckle Up.
-
@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553433#Comment_3553433
WoO is also very heavily used by survivor players yet it's not really a problematic perk. The meta keeps getting shot down so you have to use something. Sloppy butcher seems to be killer meta and I don't see a reason to change that perk
Pick rate alone doesn't dictate the strength of a perk. It's an indicator, but we have to conduct a multi-factor analysis and find out why a perk has such a high pick rate.
Typically, high pick rate correlates with perceived value from the observer. Perceived value may or may not correlate with actual value extrapolated. We examine each perk and its effects individually to determine where this value may come from.
WoO on its own doesn't add anything that doesn't already exist within each map. It's not problematic in itself, but it exposes something that is problematic: overabundance of resources in map design. However, by itself, it doesn't add anything that any survivor wouldn't be able to achieve otherwise. All it provides is information.
Now, MFT provides 10s of Endurance after finishing a heal (whether that's a pick up, or a health state), AND gives a free 3% speed boost whenever someone is uninjured. Both of these effects cannot be achieved through normal gameplay (unlike WoO) and both provide significant and very powerful benefits to anyone using them. Just the same way old Eruption's usage was at 25% for a few months there before the nerf. The value was tangible, and it was directly tied to something that couldn't be achieved through normal gameplay. So yes, WoO is "fine", and MFT is busted.
As for the whataboutism concerning Sloppy, that perk only really benefits M1 killers, most of whom happen to be some of the weakest killers in the game. The stronger killers typically use their M2 attacks primarily to play (with Spirit being a notable exception) and therefore get no value from Sloppy.
-
@Pulsar said:
It will be nerfed when any non ancedotal evidence shows it needs to be nerfed.
You can say it feels bad to play against, and that's valid, but half the time people scream about MFT in streams, said person doesn't have MFT.
How about raw evidence showing the absurd extension to chases that it gives, in a vacuum (aka not accounting for extra loops around pallets, and making tiles you wouldn't have otherwise), showing it outperforms pretty much any exhaustion perk in the game? Because the math has been done more times than I care to recall.
@RakimSockem said:
The is and always had been mid. It's only extra powerful when pair with Hope during endgame 🤷🏾♂️
It's a B tier perk
Survivor mains in charge of making sense:
I'm sure the fact it's the 2nd most picked perk for survivors is purely coincidental and not representative of its performance whatsoever.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553345#Comment_3553345
20% more time for the killer to catch up
20% is just to make the number sound scary.
In a 15 second chase, that 3% move speed gives 0.45 seconds of distance, which is 1.8 meters. That's still in lunge range.
After 15 seconds, the killer gains bloodlust, and completely negates the 3% from MfT.
Try using mind games, stop kicking pallets on cooldown, or do really anything that isn't following the survivor's exact pathing. Try zoning, using the killer's power. Maybe even turn your monitor on or stop expecting the game to hand you a win simply because you clicked 'play as killer'.
They haven't nerfed the movement speed because the counter is the killer's skill in chase, which is also the only reason this perk is complained about so much on these forums. Experienced killers all collectively go 'huh, that might've been MfT' while hooking the survivor they just downed. But it's far easier to ######### to the devs about nerfs than to examine your own game play for even one second.
3% is 20% of 15%. Survivors gain 0.2m of distance for every meter of distance they have on the killer than they would if they didn't have MFT. This makes a massive difference around loops, mains, and between tiles (basically everywhere).
-
Guy in my picture isn't seen in ~25% of games
-
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553143#Comment_3553143
So Bubba and Blight are insanely OP as well? Because I don't remember people calling them too strong because of their ability to get rid of pallets quickly. Buba doesn't even allow survivor to really gain distance after pallet break and has opportunity to oneshot survivor after, but somehow he is still not op.
Bubba also has no way of closing a gap quickly with a survivor, and has to play around windows. His power also doesn't give him the ability to ignore pallets entirely while in a certain mode, nor does it have built-in info.
Larry has all of the above. His power can let him close the gap from very far, assuming the survivor is slipstreamed and he has LOS, he has a period of time after his teleports where he breaks pallets faster, vaults faster, and can simply run through pallets unbothered, he has cross-map information with his biopods, AND can teleport through them if a survivor is brazen and doesn't EMP it. Not to mention, his kit also includes basekit slowdown through EMP recycling, where survivors have to keep running back to grab one.
And yes, Blight is very often considered top 2 killer in the game. But it's mostly due to his mobility and ability to outplay pallets and loops, and little to do with being able to chew through pallets. If you meant Billy, then Billy is hampered by a whole other host of reasons, which I won't get into here because they're not relevant to the discussion at hand.
What I'm saying is Hux is fine.
-
@HugTechLover said:
I don’t remember my last loss on blight.. probably on a 150-200 winstreak, and I still get low hour players who just hold W against me in open space. It’s pretty crazy.
Little baby medge thinking she can move her legs faster than the bleet
-
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553129#Comment_3553129
He breaks a pallet in overclock mode, you gain distance AND lose los. He tp to you, repeat again.
Yeah, i see, this forum more about skill issueing each other than the real conversation. As you wish.
And how many pallets do you suppose a map has, especially when you're predropping them against a killer that basically instabreaks them?
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553119#Comment_3553119
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553129#Comment_3553129
Do you guys really see Singu as A tier killer that doesn't need any improves? Just wondering
No, I think he's in a great spot. The only improvements I think he needs are QoL, like defaulting to a freshly placed biopod instead of the one in the opposite corner of the map when quickly switching to a biopod midchase, and basekit yellow addon that makes sounds come through the biopod. Otherwise, he's in a great spot. I enjoy playing him quite a lot.
-
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553117#Comment_3553117
In what world he is insanely oppressive? He is not bad at all, but insanely oppressive? Predrop a pallet, make distance, lose los, take another circle in loop when he tp on you. He maybe slightly more oppressive than Bubba, is it insane level?
What distance do you make when he can teleport to within 5 seconds of you anywhere he has LOS on you? This reads like a very bad case of skill issue. I understand Larry is pretty hard to play, but come on now.
-
@Steakdabait said:
What's with these increasingly bad posts that demand wild overbuffs to singu. Try reaching the skill floor of the killer before demanding a change that would make singu unbelievably op
God bless. Larry is insanely oppressive once you're tagged with power and he knows what he's doing. Removing EMPs is turning him into 115 Nurse.
-
Can we just start spawning killers in a cage in the middle of the map? That way, survivors can taunt and click and teabag all they want with no risk of any sweaty toxic evil killer behavior being allowed. Also, all the killer's perks get disabled inside the cage, so you can't even use deadlock or corrupt. You just have to watch all the gens pop in front of you helplessly as survivors come by and BM. This sounds fair to me
- Survivor mains in 2023
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552165#Comment_3552165
I think Nurse/Blight/Wesker kill rates are so low because of this very issue. Weaker players flock to the stronger Killers hoping the Killer's innate strength will carry them to a victory. They then lose a bunch, and the Survivors, expecting a stronger Killer player, sweat to pump gens to even have a chance of escaping. Those same Survivors would always lose to any SupaAlf/Momo/Alranican, or even mostly lose against a normally skilled main, but win against those baby Nurse/Blight/Weskers. Those baby Killers are still in top MMR (because it is all too easy to reach), and weigh down the averages.
The opposite likely occurs with weaker Killers, with stronger players seeking a challenge, and the Survivors underestimating the player due to the Killer selection ("oh its just Clown/Onryo" -ends up being the Clown Manifesto writer or OPWillie).
Survivors crank out gens at the same rate regardless of which killer I'm playing. An interesting theory, but one that's demonstrably incorrect.
-
@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552114#Comment_3552114
It does not take skill to use c33 or alch ring. one is a permanent 100% speed boost to breaking pallets, and the other removes your cooldown entirely if you are just capable of landing hits.
two things can be overpowered at once
"if you are capable of landing hits"
You'd be surprised how many Blights have an issue with this very thing.
-
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
Since you mentioned Blight..
How much longer until Blight gets his Alchemist Ring and Compund 33 nerfed, were talking 3 years by the way.
Blight is a killer that appears in ~3% of games. Of those, how many of them use C33/Alch Ring, you think? And how many of the ones that do are actually competent enough with the killer to get value out of them?
On the other hand, MFT appears in 26% of survivor builds (on average, at least one MFT per GAME).
But sure, let's distract with le overpowered bleet addons.
-
@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FN2KYN2AK99A/the-time-will-come.png
Can't wait for the Blight update!
Blight running from nerfs with double speed
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550307#Comment_3550307
ehm. Shoulder flick? Either the blight is new, or he will get you 100% of times.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550356#Comment_3550356
Leave the loop? Against double speed? So you are in the open after his next bump? That's 100% hit for any reasonable blight. Going wide - you won't make it in time. Shoulder flick exists and double speed is just too quick for you to make enough distance (Reasonable blight would 2-3x hit obstacle 4th go for a hit and 5th goes for correction if needed).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549640#Comment_3549640
No it's not. 40% increase speed (or even 50% for last hit) is something NO OTHER KILLER has. Take Oni - he has laughable 21% at most - for a power he does not have all the time (him being M1 killer for a considerable time). It's absolutely bonkers. There's very little you can do but hope blight will screw up. I still don't get why it's something so strong in basekit that needs addons like these and Freddy/Billy/Demo that would actually benefit from such a powerful addons have basically none in comparison.
How do you shoulder flick a hug tech? Do you even know what a shoulder flick is?
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550936#Comment_3550936
Oh it works only on basic blights. Double speed guarantees you will not make it to next loop in time (provided you don't make him miss - in which case you can move during his CD). If he has 1 speed or just vial, then sure. If loops are very well connected, then it also works. Otherwise there's no chance.
Again. Good blight will J-flick if you try to run at him. He will basically hit you every time when just going around obstacles. The only thing that is actually working is going behind the corner and running back widely just as he reaches corner if he does not expect it as this hides you for just long enough for blight to actually run far away enough to not be able to flick back. This requires sharp turn and you having enough time to get behind it and back and killer not expecting it (meaning it will work 1 or 2 times) - but him expecting it opens other possibilities (that are at best 50:50 and at worst about as good as 360)
J flick has been patched out for years now. And even J-flick could be outplayed by going wide. Blight had no correction when J-flicking.
-
That's not what an exploit is
-
@Alen_Starkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549640#Comment_3549640
I think a problem arises when you combine double speed with the hugtech in a loop - the survivor basically can't do much.
Consider the following: run towards the Blight and let him slide past you and disorient himself.
-
Alch ring is one of the most complained about addons for Blight.
Spirit players: can we have one too?
-
Both maps have very easy to defend 3 gens once the pallets around them are gone, so yes.
-
Yeah that challenge is stupid.
-
Disagree. Both basement and scourge hooks are very powerful tools. Combining both for free (without having to sacrifice a perk slot for Monstrous Shrine) is way too strong and makes basement even more powerful than it already is.
-
Can't fix hug tech because it's a byproduct of the collision that makes Blight work.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549141#Comment_3549141
add double speed (stacked, 1 of them separately is fine) and we are in full agreement
Double speed is fine
-
Lol