dbdthegame
dbdthegame
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@Batusalen said:
No. If the killer tunnels you DS already does it's job. And enough seconds, third and forth chances already.
Amen
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The feature that was supposed to prevent facecamping is stopping killers from facecamping? Say it ain't so!
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I escaped a chase on death hook because a portal was open. I ran past the portal to hide myself then entered it from the opposite side. Took the killer a while to figure out where I went and by that time I had already exited down another end to an open gate.
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Hit it sooner/faster
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@Tsulan said:
A good chase consists of not running around the same piece of wood for 5 times.
Haha MFT go brrr
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564740#Comment_3564740
i see 2 med-kits with over-time instant heal and one guy with stypic needle. not 4 toolboxes like you describe. none of your survivors have MFT+Sprint burst. your first post I have ever seen complain about SB+MFT. i was just wondering if you run this as your survivor build.
You've been arguing against a strawman for so long, frankly, I considered not engaging. You said MFT can't be used with any exhaustion perks outside DH, I said that's demonstrably false, to include SB. I never said it was optimal, I said they could be used together; and they can.
If you wanna see 4 man genrush boxes or more egregious MFT stacking, I can dig up screenshots. That happened to be a game I played right before replying, so I posted the screenshot. Any time there's a 100% incentive on killer, that is 3/5 lobbies that I run into.
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564741#Comment_3564741
"Just Bloodlust it" is a defense against player incompetence. I can down people with MfT with minimal skin off my back. This is a game that needs comeback mechanics for weaker players, thus Bloodlust 3 exists. I personally like the concept of Bloodlust as Survivor, because it takes an expression of skill to burn the Killer's Bloodlust, and thematically fits the idea of an ever looming threat getting more deadly over time (as Killer it helps end boring situations that don't involve skill sooner). A stun removes 1 level, and a kick removes all. I can't adequately tell people how to engage in chase that they haven't already discovered on their own, or sought out tutorial videos that describe my knowledge far better than I could put into words.
I can down MfT users with Trapper/Wraith/Billy/Nurse/Myers/Hag/Huntress/Bubba/Freddy/Pig/Clown/Spirit/Legion/Plague/Ghosty/Demo/Oni/Slinger/Blight/Twins/Nemmy/Pinhead/Artist/OnionRing/Dredge/Wesker/Knight/Sing/Xeno. The only missing Killers are Doc, who I already acknowledged is legit countered, Pyramid Head because I suck at aiming as him, Trickster because I haven't played him outside of dailies so I don't actually know, and new SM, because I haven't bothered to play her yet, but the on-demand Stealth with no sound cues seems like a free win for my playstyle, even against MfT. Even if I were to say those 4 Killers are hard countered at the same level as Doc, that still leaves Sprint Burst hard countering all Killers with any stealth elements, which far outnumber 4.
No, Bloodlust just makes the game stale and stupid if the killer decides to commit to BL3 for every hit, in the same way old Legion was stale and stupid. There is no skill expression involved in removing BL, just RNG. If you get bad loop chains and the killer decides to BL, you are getting hit regardless. I've seen far too many Onryos sending themselves to Lerys/RPD and spamming teleport until someone is fully condemned, then chasing them with BL3 until they get the down. It's uninteractive and requires very little skill.
I don't know who started the rumor that BL loses one stack on stun but it needs to stop. This has never been the case. Only time BL is affected is when a pallet is broken, or power is used, or a hit is made, or chase is lost.
If you can down all of those players with MFT, you're playing against bad players. I'd be more than happy to hop in a 1v1 with you, where you use SB and I use MFT, and we can test who lasts longer. Killer of my choice of course, and amongst the ones you named.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564476#Comment_3564476
The frame perfect fake 99 still counts as Exhausted. You can bring Dramaturgy and test it out, and it won't let you use Dramaturgy while running at the fake 99, so you are still considered Exhausted, thus no MfT.
The 20% is only in hold-W scenarios, as I said, mindgames reset to looping check points, which sets you only at the .12m/s extra.
What Killer doesn't have access to Bloodlust? I already accounted for the general case scenarios, and you gave no specific Killers that can't counter it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564498#Comment_3564498
The relevant ping is on the Killer's end, and I frequently get given 8 timezone apart VPNing Killers abusing 'lagvantage' when playing as Survivor. I have 30-40 ping on my server on average, but those miscreants (specifically the 8 timezone apart Killers) have a perma red-bar, and do get hits from Mars.
As far as both MfT and Resil being anti-lag, that is their rough function in a normal loop. I wasn't talking about alternative uses as well, specifically in chase alone. Even then, Resil compared to the old 80s gens still slows them down to ~82.5s, so skill can still prevail quite easily. Also like I said in the above reply, when you reset someone with a mindgame within a loop, MfT loses the distance advantage and only has the .12m/s, which functions as anti-lag and little more.
The fact you even think "just bloodlust it" is a proper argument in defense of MFT showcases just how problematic the perk is. Bloodlust on its own is very problematic already, and can be used as a crutch by killers to guarantee hits in a lot of situations. It was implemented as a band-aid to map design (something that still hasn't been fixed), and is an imperfect band-aid. BL2-3 shouldn't exist, nor should MFT.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564646#Comment_3564646
I do not see survivors running Sprint burst +MFT. your complaint is like complaining that self-care+no mither is too strong.
It's not worth it, because while it's possible, any exhaustion+MFT combination will yield more value (with DH being the strongest synergy). Your statement was "it can't be done". I'm simply stating that it can, indeed, be done. And MFT can absolutely be used with an exhaustion perk to provide a second, second chance. MFT on its own without an exhaustion perk is problematic. MFT with DH is just an insult. MFT with DH+Resi+Hope spread across 4 different survivors with genrush boxes and a map offering is what killers have had to deal with lately.
Squads like this are already extremely tough for a low tier killer to deal with. MFT just makes this an impossible situation to win.
And no, it's not like No Mither Self Care, because No Mither makes it IMPOSSIBLE to use Self Care. SB+MFT can be used together, it just requires a lot of baby sitting, and is suboptimal, but it's DOABLE. They're not mutually exclusive.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564646#Comment_3564646
What exactly do you think is 99% in this scenario? I'm genuinely curious now.
No exhaustion, SB hasn't activated yet. AKA, you're using MFT, you walk for a second and you pop SB.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564476#Comment_3564476
your post makes no sense. a 99% SB = Exhausted. you cannot use MFT when you are exhausted. the only perk where MFT does work with exhaustion is DH. DH is only perk to work with MFT because it is only exhaustion perk that triggers at very end of the chase. when DH does trigger, DH disables MFT. I thought about writing post in regards to why resilience is an overrated perk for vault speed but it took 2 paragraph so I decided to skip it.
Tell me you don't know what a true 99 looks like without telling me.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564465#Comment_3564465
That's a pretty specific and already pretty inconsistent example, though. When someone says "mindgame", my first thought is moonwalking at a regular jungle gym or something, those kinds of broadly-applicable and very common mindgames-- and those ones completely undo MFT, assuming they're successful.
It's specific, isn't that what you asked for? It's not inconsistent though. It's universally true, because it already assumes perfect pathing on both the survivor and killer (significantly harder on the killer's part than the survivor).
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@mizark3 said:
Multiple facets, but first, take the Endurance out back and do what you will with it, and by that I mean maybe put it onto Solidarity instead or something.
The first point, opportunity cost. Other than DH, you can't use it with any other Exhaustion perk, and I think against all Killers, Sprint Burst is always the best perk. Even if they stack it with DH, that means they are doubly vulnerable to anti-Exhaustion effects, so it mostly evens out.
Second, haste stacking's removal will have bad unintended consequences. Removing haste stacking will nerf Clown and Skull Merchant, yet keep Blight the same, due to Blight's add-ons modifying the speed formula, instead of applying a Haste effect. Same with Spirit, and all other stronger faster Killers, they modify the formula instead of giving haste.
Third, nearly every Killer has a method to deal with MfT with the exception of maybe Doctor. Maybe a few more Killers, but not Killers that are enjoyable to go against as Survivor, so it only meets fire with fire of 'unfun' (looking at you Trickster). Stealth Killers can take their free hit, power damaging Killers can damage with their power, and so on.
Fourth, it basically only provides an anti-lag compensatory differential when the Killer mindgames. Similar to Resilience buffing Fast Vaults from .5s to .455s, saving .045s, it basically only saves enough time where it only matters to negate the natural 'lagvantage' of Killer. If a Killer mindgames at all, the Survivor has to reset to check points, and outside of Shack and certain full jungle gym loops, there is no guarantee of safety at all on most filler loops' check points.
Fifth, Bloodlust exists, and only god pallets can burn it. Bloodlust 1 already shifts the speed differential to .68m/s, so you have an advantage over normal chase still existing, and Bloodlust 2 gives you .88m/s differential, or nearly a 50% bonus from the healthy/non-MfT difference. It takes 15s to reach BL1, and 25s to reach BL2. If you NEED a down, you can reliably get one as long as you didn't get perk randomized into Rapid Brutality.
You absolutely can use MFT with exhaustjon perks (to include SB). SB needs a true 99 and you can't stop running but it's doable.
20% distance on every meter isn't just lag advantage, it's a massive advantage. Just the same way Resi isn't only good for lag, it turns certain pallets into god pallets as well as let you react slower to vaults (especially mid vaults).
It's already been shown a dozen ways how not every killer has a way to counter MFT, and in fact, most of them that can "coumter" it simply play around it, but ok.
Haste stacking is fine, MFT is not. If there's problem with other haste perks, then nerf those as well.
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Killers will get 12k BP if survivors split gens and pop everything inside 4 minutes. Incentives are fine.
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@caipt said:
As an honest question, what redeems this perk for you?
edit:rewording this post to sound less confrontational
It's only 3% 5head smh. Self aware is 20%!!!! Nerf Self Aware, buff MFT!!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564343#Comment_3564343
I'm not sure how you can say "no amount of mindgames" will "change the fact that you are gaining distance significantly slower", when the result of a successful mindgame is that the survivor does not gain any distance at all, and in fact loses distance. That's what a mindgame is and what it's for, so would you mind clarifying what you mean here?
I think I already gave an example before. Winning a vault mindgame on shack means nothing because the survivor still makes the window.
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Breaking news: ping exists. More at 11.
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Problem isn't with AFC, it's with TP/Tombstone and their outdated design. Myers needs a whole rework. The killer shouldn't only be viable if you run an addon that lets you delete a player from the game. Just the same way, one of the weakest killers in the game shouldn't be able to run out of his power.
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Hag can't bodyblock with traps unless she specifically uses an addon that makes them useless...
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More BP, easier to defend and keep track of than a crawling slug, survivors die up to 2x as fast (faster if you tunnel), progress doesn't carry over partially from hook state to the next (unlike slugging), strong perks tied to hooking someone (Pop, Scourge Hooks, BBQ).
I don't know, fam. Slug all you want but don't complain when all you get is 1k's. I've had AFC activate on me exactly 0 times since implementation, despite camping a few hook states to secure the kill/2nd state.
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Tunneling is a valid strategy. It doesn't need to be "fixed".
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@KA149108 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562628#Comment_3562628
Maybe it's their 5th match of being hooked and tunneled straight after being hooked (which is 90% of games now btw). I agree sometimes people give up too early but sometimes I get it. Sometimes you've ran the killer for a little bit and nothings been done and you lose patience. 🤷🏼♀️
Maybe they should play better. Whenever I get tunneled, I manage to run the killer until all gens get done, and sometimes, I even escape. Try using anti-tunnel, or just loop better.
@VaporLion said:
anyone else enjoying the moment where you have no chance of survival and you just wanna die on hook but your teammates wont let you. so fun.
Probably should stop suiciding on hook to avoid the DC penalty then, fam.
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2nd floor on Eyrie has a hook.
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I disagree. I think she has better zoning capabilities, and has more incentive to chase instead of protect gens. If you play her like a trap killer, you can shut off a good portion of the map, and keep your chases at 10% hindered.
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Survivors when the killer is in the same zip code as them when they're hooked:
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@LapisInfernalis said:
Yes, it's Feng's Tome, but why does she get 50% of the charms?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L1XLSEL11UBR/feng-gets-everything.jpg
While the Oni (who is the 2nd character) gets ONE charm and Dredge also gets only one charm. Somehow when Oni was a secondary character in a Rift, he got more stuff....
What is it always with Feng getting everything? I wish Jeff would get so much love as her.
Feng hater.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559245#Comment_3559245
Nurse, Spirit, Wesker. Those are the ones I have the most trouble with.
Blight is amazing, but I just haven't ran into one that straight up destroyed me. It usually devolves into 'Killer hold W & M1 fest.'
That sounds like an issue with the players themselves, and not so much the killer. I'd like to think I'm a pretty good Blight, I've played against comp teams and had very solid results, and I can stomp pubs with ease. From personal experience, most Blights suck. You don't judge the killer's power based on the lowest common denominator.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561060#Comment_3561060
But isn't that kind of the value proposition for Oni anyway? Slow start, then a spike in power that makes up for the lost time with heavy potential to snowball?
I'm hardly the most distinguished Oni player around, I'll admit, but that is kind of how you're meant to play him from what I can gather. You hit someone early on, follow them to get a few orbs, and then peel away to hit someone else and build up your power that way if an easy opportunity for a down doesn't present itself.
I don't think Oni is meant to be going for M1 downs unless he has to. Default M1 chasing may be where MFT would help more here, but Oni already doesn't really want to do that specifically because his power is that strong when he has it.
Sure. M1 someone, chase until you get a down, then snowball with power. But what happens when that first chase takes 4 gens and everyone stealths out your power? What happens when the injured person all of a sudden runs at 103% and you're forced to pick between either chasing as an M1 killer eating pallet after pallet or popping your power over an injured survivor for your first hook?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560999#Comment_3560999
Genuine question, because I'm pretty sure I must be missing something regarding your argument here- what exactly changes for Oni in your example here with the addition of MFT?
If following the survivor around to collect blood orbs means gens are going to fly too fast, surely that's just true of Oni regardless of MFT, right? The point isn't actually to catch them in this scenario, it's to get your power, at which point I'm sure you agree Oni won't care about MFT at all.
But, if you are just collecting your power, doesn't that mean gens fly for Oni anyway whether MFT is in play or not?
You want to get a down eventually, don't you? Or is your entire point to get orbs? If you just wanna collect orbs, that's fine, but you're giving up gens for free essentially. If you want the down, you're playing as an M1 killer into MFT, unless if you're willing to pop power over an injured survivor, in which case, by all means.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560784#Comment_3560784
Show me an example where winning a mindgame to MFT is actually a losing situation for killer then. Because to me it feels they added MFT because maps keep getting weaker and weaker for survivors, especially after they received general nerfs last summer (like gaining less distance when hit). If they didn't add it to counter top tier killers like Nurse and Blight, they probably added it for other killers. Their decision is not an accident and last year around this time when the released killrate stats people did everything in their power not to admit that killers where actually in a pretty good spot and doing well even in top 5% MMR, which killers always claim is hard to play cause survivors are good or playing in SWFs etc. And they never did a breakdown of builds, so we don't really know the true killrate of perk combos like Eruption + CoB + 3rd regression perk, that any killer could use. It's also true that among those most affected by all of this were solo survivors who do make up a significant part of the playerbase as much as killer mains would like to avoid addressing.
MFT is a perk that gains value in the hands of a good survivor, or at least a survivor that is better in chase than the killer. If we can accept Nurse and Blight being in game cause skill floor or something, then I don't understand why good survivors can't have something similar. I would bet you survivors with 4 tool boxes and gen-related perks probably win a lot more games than someone bringing MFT+Resilience.
You also have yet to address BHVR decision to add a strong perk like UW in the game or the fact that they want the meta to be chase oriented and everything seems to point that way.
I'm going to mention this again after I've done a bunch of time, the game does not consist only of M1 killers Nurse, Blight, Wesker. there are other killers such as Artist, Plague, Huntress, Oni, Pinhead that don't care about it. GF and Myers also can bypass MFT altogether, that is the whole point of their power. Leatherface and as well. Billy too but he has other issues. Pig even got her old strat back with the release of UW. Trapper got buffed, Sadako got reworked and she's been pretty strong and even last year she had a surprisingly high winrate that people were in denial about. Wraith doesn't care cause he has speed boost. SK didn't even care about MFT until recently. Who does that leave? Doctor maybe?
Or are you gonna tell me now that you play killers addonless and perkless and don't tunnel or camp and everytime you kill someone you do a little dance on your chair?
Sure thing. Playing an M1 killer on shack without Bloodlust. If you manage to mindgame the window perfectly and vault it as a survivor crosses over it, without MFT, they make it to about the center of the shack before you get the hit. With MFT, they make the vault comfortably. You MIGHT get an extreme pokos if you catch them very early on (basically as they're crossing the window from right to left), but Resi guarantees the vault either way. In this situation, mindgaming is detrimental and you're better off just eating the 3 vaults until entity blocks the window. Same thing with filler pallets, any time you double back, you lose distance. You're better off just zoning straight towards the emptier area and just eating the pallet.
MFT was most definitely not added to counter Blight and Nurse as it does absolutely nothing for them, and only hurts the weaker killers.
Maps keep getting weaker? Kinda like Toba Landing with its disgusting main, Nostromo, Borgo, and Garden of Joy? Or the reworked Mother's Dwelling that somehow made one of the safest maps in the game even safer?
MFT gives value regardless of the survivor's skill. It's a perk that gives GUARANTEED value as long as you get injured throughout the game at least once. It lets you make pallets you wouldn't otherwise, or windows you wouldn't otherwise, or simply wastes more of the killer's time by just holding down W.
Why are you still going on about Eruption? Eruption was never part of this conversation. Drop this sidebar, whatever you're driving at.
I'm not going to address UW, because this isn't a conversation about UW. This is a conversation about MFT. I think UW is problematic on its own (although to a much lesser degree than MFT) but that's a different conversation completely. This is a thread about MFT, stay on topic.
Artist gets hurt by MFT, as does Plague, Huntress, Oni, and Pinhead to a lesser degree. Plague is the 2nd tallest M1 killer in the game when she's out of power. She has to play around MFT basically 90% of the match. Artist's main counter is hold W, which MFT significantly helps with. Oni out of power is a pure M1 killer, and if he's wasting time following you around with MFT picking up blood orbs, gens are gonna pop very fast. Huntress around any filler tile with long walls with MFT is an absolute nightmare to play against. You're forced to respect the pallet over and over again and hope you get lucky with the one time where you pull up, or respect, that it happens to be when they drop the pallet. You're essentially forced to eat the pallet. GF and Myers can bypass it assuming they have a 99. Outside of it, they still have to chase normally. Bubba can either try to force a chainsaw hit (gonna take forever with how maps are designed nowadays), or go for an M1 at some point on a medium vault and play into MFT. There is no winning scenario. At this point, you're essentially just rambling and namedropping killers saying "oh well they don't even mind MFT" when the truth is, yes, they do.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560711#Comment_3560711
You're right, when I got ht by Eruption I was indirectly interacting with the killer. How could I not think of that?
The more time you spent chasing someone with MFT the more chances you have to mindgame them than when you were spending time kicking gens or they working on gens. Just cause you find something boring doesn't mean that it's not more interactive compared to something else. It's also why stealth got nerfed during this time for survivor and UW counters it, so survivors can't be uninteractive either.
To deny that gen kicking meta or survivors playing extremely stealthy is less interactive than current meta is to be willingly blind.
if you've had any experience playing League of Legends then you should have noticed that the devs decide if they want a slow game or a fast game by either buffing or nerfing tanks/mages/adc/assassins. Even if something starts out exciting at first it's bound to get stale after a while, it's the nature of many games. If they bring out a busted perk tomorrow for killers that you can play in 5 different ways people will be excited at first and then they'll optimize the hell out of it and be stuck with only 1 or 2 combinations and that'll still be dull then.
What are you even talking about? Who brought Eruption up? MFT removes all incentive for killers to mindgame because winning a mindgame means nothing with MFT (unless if you have Bloodlust and they don't make a pallet) and losing a mindgame means you lose even more distance. Playing against MFT as an M1 killer incentivizes just holding down W into pallet after pallet and creating a deadzone, because survivors are more likely to greed them with MFT (and odds are, they make it around too).
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
And in the meantime UW got released. Maybe you should take a hint that BHVR is forcing for an interactive heavy playstyle for both sides. UW has even lower skill floor than MfT AND it benefits mobile killers much more.
All games have meta, sometimes the meta is slow and boring (gen kick meta), other times more exciting. ANd during those metas not every survivor/killer/champion/character/fighter is meta.
Interaction will occur regardless of the existence of MFT. MFT makes that interaction (the chase) even more dull because it removes so much nuance from it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
That’s just not realistic track star Meg isn’t gonna sound the same as like Bill the smoker etc etc
We're discussing a game where a spider eldritch god kidnaps people and psycho murderers alike to play games of escape for eternity for its own entertainment. Realism left the room two sentences ago.
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Old chase music triggers people's PTSD. I would take a screeching baby chase music over her old chase music.
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The safer the pallet, the less I respect. Also, I'll respect a lot more on a killer like Wesker or Blight where I can immediately outplay the pallet, as opposed to Sadako where I benefit greatly from having as few pallets on the map as possible. Also, if it's during Corrupt timer, I'm not respecting anything. Feed me those pallets.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557039#Comment_3557039
A good, seasoned Trapper isn't affected by MFT. At all. Regardless of the chase time and distance, they'll hit a trap eventually if their in your web. If they aren't, then it doesn't matter if we use Evan or Amanda or Phillip or whoever: Its just a chase at that point. Kind of tired of everyone using the OG for examples when they've no idea what they're talking about.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557672#Comment_3557672
Really? Using a baby Trapper? lol. ANY baby killer loses in your example. FFS...
But the spat between you and @mecca is kind of niche. Killer is supposed to kill? What a good argument. I counter with survivors are supposed to survive. Even more so, players are supposed to be having 'fun' in this game. Is anyone having any fun anymore?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557637#Comment_3557637
Blight IS mid. Upper mid, but mid. I am quite happy to discuss this sometime somewhere, but I doubt they'll be any takers.
~~~~~~~Personally, I've yet to have MFT make me feel like I screwed up or couldn't win a chase. But I play Trapper exclusively, and therefore unaffected.
I can't believe MFT is really causing this kind of talk between players. You who are arguing and such seem more interested in discrediting one another than make a valid point.
But judging by the points made, there is no accuracy at all. Everyone's interaction with MFT will be different based on a billion factors. But as @Pulsar said, If you're 'chasing like a 5head' until a survivor is down, you're not doing it right.
So far, this is about all I agree with on this topic.
If Blight is mid, who are the top 3 killers in your opinion?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558734#Comment_3558734
that is what Pulsar is talking about. all the perks you named are what Pulsar described in his post which are perks that are mid, meme or straight bad. You don't see any of those perks because.... they're mid. that is why your complaining about MFT because it is strong perk that making you lose and you find that problematic.
Reassurance is commonly agreed on as being an S tier perk. Not so much now that anti facecamp will be in the game, but it had a year to make it to 25% usage rate. Why didn't it?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558683#Comment_3558683
Why is it popular?
Well, it's a strong perk. It's not often Survivors come with good perks. Usually they're either mid, meme or just straight up bad.
Content creators have been going ballistic over it for months. That's definitely got something to do with it.
Definitely because some people go ballistic when they see it in game and give reactions.
Reassurance is a very strong perk. Troubleshooter is a strong chase perk. Dramaturgy is a strong AND fun perk. Fogwise is a strong info perk. Chemical Trap is a strong perk to deny a pallet break (especially good on god fillers). You don't see any of these perks skyrocket to the top of the usage rate. People tend to take the path of least resistance to win (which is why the genkick meta quickly became popular after it was discovered, and Eruption also bounced to ~25% usage rate almost overnight). Old Eruption was problematic, and MFT is problematic. Old Eruption deserved to be gutted, and MFT equally deserves it.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558610#Comment_3558610
you mean no infection at all ? i mean he can still hit your bt with his power but that a solution
No, make the infection start at 0% instead of 50% like it currently does. If he decides to tunnel off hook, you have 90s before you're fully infected (assuming he doesn't slap you with power off hook). That's even more of a buffer than OTR. That kills his tunneling ability without removing the pressure from his infection.
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Make infection start at 0% off hook. There. Wesker is perfect.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558328#Comment_3558328
That's the average Survivor. Heck, that's even good Survivors. Even tournament level Survivors get caught by that.
1v1s aren't a realistic scenario because you've ignored ANY macro gameplay. Nobody cares about micro gameplay. The most impactful type of gameplay for either side is completely excluded in your scenario.
OF COURSE if you give a Survivor an entire maps worse of pallets they are gonna do well. Any baby player could do that. Especially against a set-up Killer.
You just stacked the odds in your arguments favor and called it a day. At least have an honest argument.
You keep making these extremely vague sweeping statements about "don't play micro, play macro". At what point exactly are you supposed to get your hooks and downs? You keep making the inference that chasing is somehow a negative, and yet provide no alternative. If I'm playing trapper against 4x MFT, how am I gonna win?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558285#Comment_3558285
Your argument was that if you play sloppy, MFT bails you out. I countered that by explaining how it could be detrimental to you.
Taking a Killer and forbidding them from using their power as they would REASONABLY be using it in a match IS FIXING THE OUTCOME. It's like sending Billy against MFT but telling him he can't use him chainsaw at all. It's not a realistic scenario.
Either come up with a realistic scenario or don't bother using one in the first place.
That's not MFT being detrimental to you, that's your own lack of skill being detrimental to you. If you run into the killer, it's 100% a skill issue. Saying "but a brand new install gets negative value from the perk" isn't the argument you think it is.
1v1s ARE a realistic scenario. A lot of killers are forced to M1 chase a lot of the time. In fact, the entire CHASE interaction is a literal 1v1.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558239#Comment_3558239
Uh, no. It hurts sloppy plays because it can't bail you out. For example, you get mindgamed at a loop, you are now even closer to the Killer. You also don't have perks like SB to bail you out of bad positioning.
That is, once again, taking things in a vacuum. Your teammates may have already dropped that pallet. It may have not spawned in the first place. The Killer could have any number of perks. It could be any number of Killers.
Instead, you made the scenario as bad as possible for the Killer and as good as possible for the Survivor to try to prove a point.
No offense, but is this really the best argument you can come up with for MFT being somehow balanced? "If you run towards the killer, you die faster"?
I'm a killer main with 75/25 time split between killer and survivor. I'm not ashamed to say I run MFT basically any time I play survivor, and I do so because my time commitments have gotten to the time I don't get to play much with my usual squad and typically only play solo Q, and playing with MFT is easy mode looping.
I don't need to make a scenario "as bad as possible for killer". Taking MFT in a 1v1 against an M1 killer is testing it IN PRACTICE. The worst scenario possible would be Nurse not being allowed to blink, against MFT Hope Iron Will Ada, on Lerys. A perk that makes as much of a difference as consistently as MFT should not exist.
Yes, SB will bail you out of bad positioning; one time. And then, you loop as a 100% survivor. There is a scenario where Balanced/SB/Lithe are better than MFT: when pressuring gens (especially 3-gens) and you need to get as far away as early as possible without taking a hit (to force a killer to either commit or go back and protect the gens). In virtually every other scenario, MFT is far, far superior.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558165#Comment_3558165
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C0EOSDTKESBK/screenshot-20231007-114239-samsung-internet.jpg
Your entire argument has been that since I disagree, I'm either one of three things.
Completely disingenuous.
A Survivor main.
Bad.
At least own it.
I don't believe MFT is an issue because of my experience in game. These hypothetical examples of MFT getting you 20% extra distance is what happens in a vacuum. It's not a real-world live example. Now, things can feel bad to play against and not be OP and still need changes, like Boil Over. But that's pretty clearly not the argument you've been making.
Likewise, that person who tried to say MFT was OP because a perkless, addonless Trapper on Coal Tower got wrecked in a 1v1 by it was also being extremely disingenuous.
The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Survivors cannot use MFT well. You will not be playing against people that can often and when you do, it's likely that the outcome of that match would've been the same, MFT or no MFT. The perk is much like Hyperfocus. In it's best state, it IS extremely strong. However, that best state requires skill, luck and several other extraneous factors in order to be achieved.
We've already disproved that it's like Hyperfocus. Unlike Hyperfocus, it doesn't require perfect play to get value out of. In fact, it makes up for very sloppy play, and amplifies perfect play to the level to where it cannot be countered altogether.
And again, MFT provides MORE value outside of a vacuum because a vacuum doesn't account for it working basically anywhere where you're not simply holding down W. The simple fact that MFT allows you to make almost two extra loops around an i-pallet (one of the strongest fillers in the game) is absolutely ludicrous.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557837#Comment_3557837
Your literal first comment is about me never playing Killer lol.
"You never play killer"
The next things you say are calling me bad lmao
"You play against trash survivors"
"Your game sense is so lackluster that you think survivors being able to do 10+ loops around a filler and be able to greed against a BL2 killer is entirely normal"
I think I've got 14K Kills and 1.1K escapes with 5500 hours on my main with maybe 500 elsewhere. I've played against several comp teams with tournament wins and I've participated in Tofu's scrims + the Community Cups.
Let's dispell all your arguments above. I almost exclusively play Killer, have a lot of time in it and I'm at least above average.
I didn't say any of that, I don't know where you got your reading comprehension. But I did say those were the ONLY possible explanations for why someone who's presumably been playing DBD for the last 5 months wouldn't have an issue with MFT.
Saying you only play against trash survivors isn't calling you bad; it's the complete opposite. It's calling the survivors bad. Saying your game sense is bad isn't an insult either, some of the most technical and mechanically skilled players in this game (I'm thinking of Lilith here especially) have lacking game sense. But that's not necessarily a bad thing; different players choose to focus on different things in the game. Lilith wants to just have fun with Blight, and not track down every single metric at any given point; and that's completely okay.
I don't doubt that those are your stats. And they mean absolutely nothing to me as far as this discussion goes. MFT is a problematic. This has been proven a number of ways, and is an accepted consensus amongst players far above the levels that you and I will ever reach. My main point, this entire time, is you have been disingenuous this entire discussion regarding it, insisting that it's no problem without elaborating, and saying to just "counter it". You need to do better if you're gonna convince anyone.
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@Reinami said:
This is funny to me, last time they posted stats it was: "SEE LOOK MFT IS FINE ITS NOT EVEN TOP 10"
YOU... YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO POINT THAT OUT! IT'S OBVIOUS THESE STATS ARE SKEWERED! SELF CARE IS NOT A PROBLEM! I USE IT ALL THE TIME BECAUSE IT'S NOT EVEN THAT STRONG IT'S ONLY 3%?!?!?!?
LOOK AT THE USAGE RATE ON JOLT. NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
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@Beatricks said:
We are going 5 years and Blight and Nurse are still broken.
Those pesky survivor sided devs man, the nerve!
Whataboutism? That's original.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557429#Comment_3557429
Try to think of something else.
Calling me a Survivor main is like calling Blight mid.
I never called you a survivor main, I just said you're dishonest when it comes to MFT. You would literally have to be completely clueless (i.e brand new), disingenuous, or playing one of like 4 killers that's not terribly affected by it, to pretend that MFT isn't the problem that people are making it out to be.
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She's an extremely tall M1 killer. Just loop her.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557039#Comment_3557039
Do I need to pull out my stats?
We really gonna go down the, "You have a different view than me so you're an X main" thing? Really?
It's the only viable explanation for why you hold that view. I'm not the best at this game but I'd like to think I'm pretty good. If I can notice MFT making a difference in a jungle gym while I'm antilooping it with BLIGHT and noticing the survivor making more distance than they should be able to, there's no reason you shouldn't be affected on any killer that can't bypass the injured health state, especially against a perk with as much empirical evidence about its brokenness as MFT.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556995#Comment_3556995
MFT is doing nothing in your scenario though.
Literally nothing, talk about being dishonest. Is Trapper bad? Yes. Does MFT make him significantly worse? No. Is it somehow MFT's fault that Trapper is bad? No. If we nerf MFT does that make Trapper better? No.
Explain how I, and others, have very little issues with MFT?
20% extra chase time on paper (much more in practice) is "literally" nothing? Yes, trapper is bad. And YES, MFT does make him significantly worse, as it does almost any killer on the roster without a means of quickly catching up, dishing damage from range, or antiloop of some form. It's not MFT's fault that Trapper is bad; Trapper is bad by design. What MFT does is make Trapper near unplayable.
You and others have very little issues with MFT for any/all of the following reasons:
1) You never play killer
2) You play against trash survivors
3) You play killers that don't mind MFT
4) Your game sense is so lackluster that you think survivors being able to do 10+ loops around a filler and be able to greed against a BL2 killer is entirely normal
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556986#Comment_3556986
So why are you blaming MFT for something that isn't it's fault?
You are already in the worst case scenario. If the Survivors did not have MFT, the outcome would not change.
Because M1 chasing shouldn't be something that's discouraged. It's the primary method with which a LOT of killers get their downs (hence the term... M1 killer). Unless you're a 110, there are a lot of situations where you are expected to M1 chase. Making a blanket apology for MFT for destroying any nuance in this dimension of the game entirely, and excusing it with "the killer should just do better" is extremely dishonest.