danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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Just gonna put it out there: We could just revert the nerf.
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If you're really being camped that often and tunneled that often, use anti-camp and anti-tunnel perks. DS, BT, Guardian (Babysitter) Kindred, Kinship (Camaraderie), and more. People don't want to use them for some reason.
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@DrDeepwound said:
DBD is not sold as, marketed as, or developed as a "party game."
DBD is sold as "competitive online PVP"
DBD is not even in the party game category on steam.
DBD is sold as "difficult survival horror game."
The party game myth is pushed by survivor mains, but the game is not sold as a casual game at all.
Yeah, they keep calling it a casual game, but they also want to talk about balance while they're playing at a casual level.
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They're enjoying the game a lot more than I am.
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Mine is that hatch should be replaced with a better endgame mechanic.
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@AngyKiller said:
The game according to Survivors:
Killer Meta? EVIL! Nerf it! No META should survive! Force the Killer to use subpar perks via nerfing! Nothing should be effective! If it works; it should be nerfed!
Survivor META? Should only change if we're given better perks! Only ever make Survivor meta better! 🙃
This is what I've been saying. To shake up the killer meta, the devs nerf their best perks in the hopes that they use lesser used perks. To shake up the survivor meta, the devs buff their worst perks in the hopes that they use the lesser used perks. It's double standards towards balancing. The killer meta gets nerfed and the survivor meta stays the same or gets better.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903945#Comment_2903945
You truly believe that is the consensus of this forum and community?
Absolutely. They just don't like to admit it.
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I'm also tired of getting matched with flashlight duos who don't get 1 save throughout.
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Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out/NOED.
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@IronKnight55 said:
She needs nerfs. I've been saying this since she released.
She has to hit you with her crows 2 times consecutively to injure you, and if she misses the chase resets. And getting hit directly with a bird which automatically does 1 health state, you'd have to mess up real bad to get hit by that. I don't see the problem.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Okay. I'll bite.
What IS the counterplay to Artist?
You know, aside from just running in a straight line and hoping she decides you are not worth the time investment?
You can see the crow auras coming from a far shot, giving you ample time to react. You can jump in a locker to instantly get rid of the crows. You can flashlight burn the crows. Artist is also relatively slow at setting up crows at loops and you can see where she's set them up. You can either run the loop, bait that you're gonna cross a crow's path, and have it miss you. Or you can leave the loop to hold forward or go to another loop where she hasn't set up the crows. If you have birds on you, she can see their aura on you until you start to wave them off, which can use to mindgame her because she's gonna predict where you're gonna go after she stops seeing the aura, so if you're unpredictable with your movement, she'll miss that follow-up shot. If the Artist shoots more than 1 crow at a time, she literally won't be able to recover them fast enough to fire at you again before you can wave the crows off, so waving them off asap is key. Vaulting and pallets dropping will reset your wave-off meter, so try not to do it unless absolutely necessary. If you run directly into a crow she's set up, you'll get crows on you, which you might think is bad, but really you probably messed up her plan by doing that, because now she can't use that crow, and needs to set up and fire another one real quick to damage you. If Artist doesn't fire a crow within a certain amount of time, which is represented by a depleting meter on her power, the crows despawn, and even when a survivor runs into a crow like that, it does not reset or slow down the meter, so if you time it right she won't be able to place that next crow before her power goes into cooldown, buying you a couple more seconds (up to a dozen). If you see an injured teammate with crows on them, you can body block the next shot of crows to save them. All this, and more, is the counterplay to the Artist.
@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905806#Comment_2905806
Being psychic, and knowing to equip a flashlight before the match starts. Also hoping they forgot to equip DMS at the loadout screen, that works too
Oh come on.
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@HisLilGuppy said:
Couldn't the same be said for both sides? Honestly killer and survivor mains both cry and complain and keep getting each side nerfed and it's getting ridiculous I play both so I've noticed it on both sides getting stupid at this point
It can't be said for both sides. The most ridiculous thing I've seen killers ask for is a Spine Chill nerf, which I disagree with, because it hurts the viability of stealth killers. Everything else they ask for is pretty much warranted. Whereas survivors are just like "Nerf Hag, nerf Wraith, nerf this, nerf that" more out of personal dislike for those killers than any actual balance issue.
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Artist has potential but she's overrated. She's A tier and needs buffs before she can get into S tier. She's probably the only killer I've been complimented for being good with. "You're the only one I've seen play Artist so well". And those comments feel good to read, instead of the ones I see on here talking about, "Artist OP. You just get easy wins."
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2906444#Comment_2906444
Nah, he's saying he used to be so good on old Slinger he even used Dying Light once, but knowing this guy here on the forums he's probably one of those who runs 4 slowdown perks every match.
I did run 4 slowdown perks, because I believed they were necessary if you wanted to win, which most killers in the community agree with. I've recently realized that regression perks are pointless because they only work against bad teams that give you loads of downs, and that guaranteed delay like Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out is the way. Alternate between hooking 2 people and nobody else to play around DS, so that you can get 1 or 2 out before the end, then make your 4th perk NOED so you can get 1 or 2 more kills, which they can only prevent from activating if they do all the totems. The kills aren't guaranteed; that's all on how well the survivors play. But the time your perks buy you is guaranteed. I have not deviated from this build basically since Artist came out, because if I do I will not be prepared for those high efficiency teams and will lose to them. Even with the build I still lose a bunch, but it's the best I've got. You don't seem to have any understanding of how dire it is for killers at top level, since you're making light of people who run 4 slowdown perks, which isn't even enough anymore.
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@Flimflam said:
There's no comparison needed. Anyone who thinks deathslinger needed to be made less powerful is out of touch with reality. Watch Diablo_97 vs Otz's swf (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35vBSv7zPGw). He gets one kill even though he missed like 2 shots the entire game as PRE NERF slinger.
And otz's SWF isn't even world class or using mean stuff vs a tournament level player bringing sweat perks and addons.
Now if you want to argue that deathslinger needed a redesign, sure, instant scope felt pretty bad to vs. But he didn't need to be -weaker-
If it felt bad to vs, that's good. It's reflective of strength. Nurse, Clown, Freddy, Leatherface, Trapper, Sadako, all feel bad to vs, but do I complain about them until they get nerfed? No, because I actually recognize how weak they are, something that none of these clowns did when saying that Deathslinger was "problematic but not OP". It's doublespeak for "He's OP."
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903190#Comment_2903190
I dont think iron will is needing of a nerf
It's just annoying that I can't hear a survivors who's running in front of me injured, and if I lose him at any point, he's gone or gets loads of distance on me. And because it annoys me and I don't like to deal with it, it needs a nerf. That's the Deathslinger nerf mentality being applied to something else.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905132#Comment_2905132
Yes that why survivors vault faster and can use pallets as periods of respite to get greater distance. Also he has a damn range limit of a measely 18 meters with a snapable chain. But still people moaned and complained till his key selling point was butchered. Even then his gun has pathetic muzzle velocity. I reckon the derringer in hunt has more speed.
I ve run the best huntresses and slingers and i can tell you every action they take that buys you time is time i exploited to get distance i always pathed in directions that left me antoher loop close by and avoided structures i know they have an advantage at. Whenever i was caught they either spent several gens worth of time chasing or i messed up my pathing.
Also lets drop the act we all know 90% of the players here wanted slinger to get gutted and had zero to no interest in actually helping him. Not a single hint of a suggestion on what to do with him crossed there mind. How to compensate slinger and make him fun still to play was never anyones goal. If it was basic ideas like a charged exposed shot, multiple rounds in the chamber, extended range, faster muzzle velocity. Basic simple ideas. But no apprently the dbd community dosent believe in patches that give and take theyd rather see a killer or survivor gutted. Unforgiveable and frankly disgusting that people look at those changes and think it was still a good patch.
They don't want to learn counterplay. That's why they're so happy for nerfs, because they go from playing easy mode to even easier mode. They literally complain about have to pre-drop pallets against Freddy, Clown, and even Wraith, all of which had BS nerfs. Maybe don't try to be greedy and push through the killer's anti-loop, get hit, and then complain that the killer being OP is why you got hit. They don't want to take the safe option of dropping the pallet because it uses up their "valuable resource" which they have a ton of in any given map, and 5 gens can be done before the killer's even broken through 60% of them. And for sure, these people have zero care for this killer or the people who play him. As long as he's weak enough to where they're not losing to him, they're more than happy with how he is.
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@SeannyD115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902762#Comment_2902762
To be fair you could make the same argument with huntress.
They could make the same argument with literally any killer. "Oh, you're in a chase and you played well and BOOM, you hit the survivor. How is that fair, since they couldn't dodge?"
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905236#Comment_2905236
Legion just got his fatique reverted from 4->3 seconds after 3 years. April 2019 was when he got changed. Given at the pace that dev change things, You'll probably need to wait like minimum 2 years for deathslinger to get changes/revert.
"If there's no mindgames for the killer, especially since the community nerfs any killer that does have mindgames, does survivor really take that much skill?"
I think we both know answer to that question.
It's mostly game knowledge, memorization, and execution. Very little on-the-fly or mindgamey type plays are required, which are the things that require skill.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905225#Comment_2905225
Whatever dude, anything to cope the fact that you're probably bad with him.
It's funny, really, because I was so good with him before his nerf, getting injures and down so quick, that I started experimenting with using Dying Light. DYING. LIGHT. Who uses that perk unless they're super confident with their killer? I lost some of those matches, but I did win some.
Now that he's nerfed and I'm not doing as well with him as I was before, suddenly I guess I'm just a really bad Deathslinger, right? You guys crack me up.
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@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905228#Comment_2905228
Nurse Blink from 10m away = enough time to react. Slinger quickscoping from 10m = no reaction time at all. This is common sense, complaining that it got removed is a waste of time.
But that is what you're saying, if you'll actually talk about my argument. If a killer is OP and needs to be nerfed, they get lumped into an "OP killer" category with the others, naturally. So you, and everyone else who was fine with this nerf, are saying that Deathslinger needed a nerf as much as Nurse and Blight do, because "It doesn't matter what tier the killer is. If they have something 'OP', it needs to be nerfed."
And I am gonna keep complaining about this nerf, because I do not agree with these fake statistics y'all keep regurgitating at me. How is the power unreactable? How? If you're running walls tightly to break los, like on a farm map where there's TLs and jungle gyms, and you realize he's catching up to you, instead of hugging the next corner the same way, you dodge his shot which he wants to take because it's the first opportunity he had to actually shoot you. If he misses, he loses distance, has to reload, and the chase resets. If he's super patient and doesn't shoot at the first opportunity, he'll catch up to you and still hit you there probably, but isn't patience a part of killer skill?
Again, all your statistics and examples keep emphasizing that the survivors "just can't do anything", but they feature no practicality nor the idea that survivors can think outside the box. I've just shown you an example at how the killer has to not only be efficient with his movement and his cutting-off capability, but then also has to make a read on what the survivor's gonna do, after being patient, just to get 1 hit. And killers need to get sub-20 second chases against efficient teams. Please don't tell that I'm "cherry picking" with my above example either, because all survivors and maps are capable of what I've described.
That's the best argument I've had so far. If it means nothing to you, I'm at a loss.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905236#Comment_2905236
I didnt want him to be "condemned to a sorry weak state", I do want you to drop the act tho
They could of easily made his power more interactable for both sides while keeping viable, after all the stronger killers have powers that allow outplays and mindgames for both sides.
Don't fix what isn't broken. His power was interactable for both sides. The survivors can literally deny him a down by moving while chained behind an obstacle so the chain breaks. They can also predict that he's not gonna shoot, he's gonna shoot, or a mix-up of that. They might predict wrong, but that's where the killer has the advantage as he should.
The reason the strongest killers are the strongest is because they haven't been nerfed to have unnecessarily weak powers like Deathslinger did. After all this time, you still don't understand these devs. If they 'rework' a killer, they're gonna nerf them. If they nerf them, they're gonna nerf them hard. If they nerf a killer hard, they're now unviable, never to return to viability again.
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Tunneling and camping is fair game if the survivors are just gonna let you. No need to play fair so they can beat you.
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@NemmyMan3000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902616#Comment_2902616
Hardly any skill? Knowing when and where to place dream snares takes skill because you dont get value from them if not placed correctly. You can argue about skill with the dream pallets, but dream snares take skill.
According to people who wanted pre-nerf Freddy nerfed, his snares take no skill. The dream pallets are also weaker than his snares so not sure how those take no skill.
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Freddy's nerfs should be undone. He would not survive in this current meta anyway, but he'd be better.
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Killers will never get the ability to snuff a boon and relight their hex at the same time.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905097#Comment_2905097
Because no one likes to be tunneled? Don't tunnel and the "second chance" perk wont even be used.
So you think killers have time to go for 12 chases and win?
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This killer has already lost so much.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
I don't know where this "it's skillful so there's no problem" idea comes from.
Sure, if you could reprogram the game to play Snake with the survivors before killing them and uninstalling their games via a series of inputs requiring computerized precision at highly specific intervals, that'd be real darn skillful.
It also could never, ever, ever see the light of day, ever, period, because this is a multiplayer game.
Because this game suffers from a lack of skill in all areas, so when you nerf every killer that takes skill, you only make the problem worse. If a killer isn't OP, they don't need to be nerfed. These nerfs to a weak killer came in before Leatherface's ability to camp someone to death off one down was even considered for nerfing. No clue where you're going with Snake.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905243#Comment_2905243
Listen I get it. I never thought Spirit was OP and didn’t think she needed anything other than removal of stand still mind game but my mind won’t change about her still being strong with the directional audio.
The number 1 reason I wanted her changed was because I was sick of the constant “Spirit is OP” and “Spirit takes no skill” statements that people kept making up. She did need something changed, but again, all the whining about the killer I dearly love was very tiring.
They're just gonna say she's OP anyway. The nerf accomplished nothing. "Spirit is stronger than she was pre-nerf." They say the same about Wraith, Twins, Nemesis, Pinhead, even though they've been nerfed to hell. Removal of infinites and introduction of entity blocker are always framed as "survivor nerfs" instead of necessary game health changes. These are very casual people thinking they have the right to speak on balancing for the top, and they get listened to. They can't be appeased, only ignored.
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I'm predicting that they'll barely tweak it and call it a day. Dead Hard will probably always be as OP as it is now.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't think it would. Most killers will not be stronger than nurse or blight so to people that only play to win which seems like most people, other killers will not matter.
But Nurse and Blight are the only ones with a good chance of winning. If other killers even came close to their winning potential, people would try them. They might fail, but they'd try them nonetheless, and that will create killer variety.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904339#Comment_2904339
Only buff she needs right now is an indirect buff, which is nerfing Iron Will.
I pity you sometimes. You've been gaslighted into thinking your favorite killer is so OP that you actually agree with the nerfs. I'll never stop fighting these nerfs, even when killer players say they're fine.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905114#Comment_2905114
Youre making it sound like the perfect scenario for Survivor and you know damn well that isnt possible every time
Not to mention Slinger is still faster than a Survivor and had a smaller TR to close the gap before Survivors even knew he was coming
When he is in chase as well he is more than in a comfortable range for him to be a threat
I didnt want slinger to be put in the state he's in, but I didnt want him to stay in the state he was either
No, you did want him condemned to a sorry, weak state. Because anything less than what he originally was is always gonna be weaker when we know darn well he actually needed buffs.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902659#Comment_2902659
Returning fire has gotta be the dumbest statement ive heard all week. You cant melee strike the killer either. If your playing survivor your signing up to be on the defensive. Even in shooters firing back is not the right choice. Your loadout could be suited medium close so manuvering into better positions and locations is part of overcoming your opponets advantage. Ofc most dbd players couldnt play an fps to save there lives nevermind handle advance concepts beyond loop wall structure.
Actual los blocking is just too complex and dont forget every survivour players favourite word "boring". It works different but it is striaght up wrong to make aiming a ranged charaters attack clunky. You all need to play hunt because it will open your eyes to what actual ranged gameplay looks like. Not this half ass deliberatly clunky game design. To amswer your question on different ms yes there are many fps games with various differing movement speeds.
I'm of the suprisingly small field of players believes that taking ques and aspect from other games despite differences is actually a helpful way to improve your game. If you believe that two different genres have nothing to learn from each other you are actively sabotaging the god damn game. Please do your homework first before posting nonesense.
Thank you! These guys knew what they were signing up for when they picked survivor. Of course they're not getting a gun, too. And this idea that we can't compare DBD to any game out there is just ridiculous. Fighting games, for example, get compared to other games outside their genre all the time because they represent skill and mindgames. You could even compare them to DBD. If there's no mindgames for the killer, especially since the community nerfs any killer that does have mindgames, does survivor really take that much skill?
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@Tiufal said:
Are we now really tyring to justify some broken mechanic by comparing an action game wirh an fps game? OMG, how low can you fall?
Yeah, I guess it was broken, because Nurse was S tier and Slinger was S+, right?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904142#Comment_2904142
Because Deathslinger wasn't really that hard to play to begin with. You're essentially playing a FPS character on a melee based game, it's just point and click.
If you like skill so much, current Slinger takes way more skill because you actually have to predict survivors instead of playing a point and click game :)
He doesn't take more skill, he's just egregious to use and has more counterplay. Now you're punished no matter what you do, because you can't aim in fast enough to get quick shots, survivors are too hard to hit if you just hold it out, and the hitbox for his harpoon is pitifully small. This killer has nothing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904134#Comment_2904134
I'm fully aware it's controversial, I said that it shouldn't be.
When it comes to game design, you nerf the things that need nerfing and you buff the things that need buffing, any given community tierlist is fully irrelevant. Deathslinger's power design was unhealthy; while he wasn't necessarily overpowered, winning with him was still much harder than other killers, his power forced survivors into lose/lose scenarios without much requirement on the killer's part.
Fun is subjective, obviously, but it should be a baseline touchstone for everyone that a game requires both sides have influence over the outcome. The survivor should have some input in a chase, I'm sure you'd agree on that front?
Yes, I agree, because survivors do have input in chase against him! It felt good taking him on a long chase but still going down anyway, because I knew he was weak but had potential. But now that he's been nerfed he has no potential. Why does nobody value killer viability? You would think that since Nurse and Blight are the only viable ones, the others would be left alone. But no, we need to nerf the weaker killers as well so there's even less variety. People might be able to humor using non-S tier killers at the top level just for fun because there's a small chance they'll win, but they'll just stop trying that once they realize it's pointless. Survivors can beat almost every killer in chase simply through memorization of how to run loops, and Deathslinger came close to countering that. That's unhealthy design though, can't have that!
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@jeremycarinio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904223#Comment_2904223
if i were to explain, survivors cannot shot you in the face. the no-scope shot is a broken mechanic that wont allow for survivor to react, and for slingers to bait m1 to m2 is just broken. thats thew logic. if only survivors can shoot killers in the face, i could have won against you many times. thats the logic.
There's other things in the game where survivor reactions don't matter. Doctor's static blast, Legion's frenzy, Victor's pounce. Are those all OP, just because survivors can't react and it's actually in the killer's favor?
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@calem said:
Yep. After 1.5k hours, I have 3 survivors at P3-50 all perks, and no other character in the game have I prestiged. Because I am still getting perks for my killers, who I doubt will ever get prestiged because then I lose all the perks on them and have to spend another 1 million points at least to get decent perks.
I assume you're not dumb like me and will get through it faster. I like to use almost all of my characters add-ons and stuff before I prestige them, because I'd hate to waste all that bp I spent, which is eventually gonna cause me to hit the bp cap faster than I can use up everything on a character, thus either wasting bp or feeding the problem into itself infinitely.
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@Rooftopper said:
absolute garbage killer
Thank you!
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I'm placing my bet on us getting nothing until next year.
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It should be default.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904332#Comment_2904332
It's not, it's B tier max. It gets hard countered by playing efficiently, splitting up on Generators
But it's guaranteed value, like Corrupt, unlike Pop and Pain Resonance.
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@Cameragosha said:
All killer need buff except S tier. nurse , blight and spirit.
Spirit could do with some buffs after her unjust nerfs.
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Definitely Pig. Give her a second type of trap or test, and make her dash attack usable.
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@GuyFawx said:
They are buffing legion next patch so they are doing what you suggest even tho legion is strong in chase his power atm doesnt allow downs just injures which is getting changed
Those buffs will not be enough.
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This is the better way. Once Blight gets nerfed, suddenly Artist or someone else will become OP. But if you make Trapper or Clown viable, then the top killers will seem a lot less OP in comparison.
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At first I would have disagreed. But you are right. It is boring to only be able to play with perks like that if we're planning on winning.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
The only meta Perk that blocks gens that I can think of is Corrupt Intervention. All the other ones that block Generators aren't meta, Dead Man's Switch included
Deadlock is meta. Survivors complain about it, so it must be well designed.